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GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help needed!

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rockshopping555

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
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Been lurking around the forums for a bit now and stumbled upon the HCA tool.
I recently found a stone that met all my criteria, price included.
It is a GIA certified Excellent cut, Excellent symmetry and VG polish, thin to med faceted.

I was set on purchasing this stone, and this morning saw the HCA tool, decided to input the following proportions:

Depth: 62.3%
Table: 55%
crown angle: 35
Pav angle: 41.4
Cutlet: 0

To my shock, the results showed up as a 4.8!!! VG, fair, fair, VG

In comparison, the following measurements (another stone I saw but is a bit more expensive) got a HCA grade of 1: To me the differences in angles proportions seemed to minute:

depth: 62.7%
Table: 55%
Crownangle: 35
Pav angle: 40.6
cutlet: 0

Is there really this much of a difference between 2 GIA excellent cut stones?

Any guidance here would be greatly appreciated. Right now I don't know what to do.
thanks!
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

The first diamond is thin to medium faceted
The second is slightly thick faceted.

Even with an HCA of 1, you wouldn't choose stone #2?

Out of the 2, is there one which is clearly better? all other categories being equal?
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Welcome to Pricescope, As a newbie many years ago I was very curious of what made one diamond look beautifully sparkly and another not so much. If you notice in the two diamonds listed, the only number that is different is the pavillion angle. The pavillion angle determines the light return or sparkle(my term) of all diamonds. If you play around with the HCA tool, you will find that very small changes in the pavillion will make big changes in the HCA score. Could you personally see the difference between these two diamonds, depends on the light source, your eyesight, and knowing what to look for. But some people can see the difference, so if that is true I would always buy the better cut diamond regardless if I could actually see it myself, especially if the price is the same or close. I would advise all newbies to learn as much as possible about cut before they buy so they buy the best diamond for their money. Not all GIA excellent cut are the best cut combos( crown and pavillion angles) Good Luck!!!
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

The HCA is one tool among a number you can use to help select stones. The most important is the GIA/AGS cut grade. That selection criteria will elimanate 95% or more of the diamonds out there. After that, whether you use more tools depends on your preference and tolerances for small variation in cut quality. You can use real life photographs of the stone or video, an Ideal scope image, the HCA, the opinion of a qualified appraiser or the vendor, and your own eyes. None of this second set of criteria trumps one another, and in my opinion, perhaps with the exception of your own eyes, none of them trumps the lab cut grade.

In this case, the poor HCA score suggests you might need to gather another piece of information to help assess the quality of the diamond you like. Can you get photographs? See it in person and ideally compare it to another diamond that is both GIA Ex and scores well on the HCA? Can you get an Ideal Scope image?
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

**edited by moderator to remove quoted posts that were removed for violating our policies**

bagelboy|1332172294|3152022 said:
Welcome to Pricescope, As a newbie many years ago I was very curious of what made one diamond look beautifully sparkly and another not so much. If you notice in the two diamonds listed, the only number that is different is the pavillion angle. The pavillion angle determines the light return or sparkle(my term) of all diamonds. If you play around with the HCA tool, you will find that very small changes in the pavillion will make big changes in the HCA score. Could you personally see the difference between these two diamonds, depends on the light source, your eyesight, and knowing what to look for. But some people can see the difference, so if that is true I would always buy the better cut diamond regardless if I could actually see it myself, especially if the price is the same or close. I would advise all newbies to learn as much as possible about cut before they buy so they buy the best diamond for their money. Not all GIA excellent cut are the best cut combos( crown and pavillion angles) Good Luck!!!

OP, lest you start freaking out, I want to comment that I thin the highlighted points in both of the above posts are slight exaggerations and should not be taken as gospel. It is easy to become too dogmatic in one's assessment of diamond cut, but I think that is to our detriment at times as it will unecessarily stress out a shopper and potentially lead you to eliminate what might be a perfectly good diamond.

To elaborate on my point, GIA's EX cut grade is wider than AGS's top cut grade, but it is by no means "too wide" in relative terms nor are there any true dog performers that end up in that grade.

Chooseing from between these two diamonds does not make you a cheap bargain hunter ;))

Limiting yourself to 40.6 - 40.9 pavilion with complimentary CA may be overly strict. GIA rounds and averages its reported angles, so if you are too strict you are uneccesarily limiting your choices. Many diamond have PA outside those limits and are great performers.

The pavilion does not determine sparkle on its own, it is the combination of crown, pavilion, lower halves, upper halves, symmetry of meet points... there is a long list. That is why one should not be overly focused on only one or two pieces of the puzzle. The whole picture must be taken into account.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

It's too deep so it won't perform as well with light.

Someone may say it's all personal preference, all diamonds are equally beautiful, trust your heart, trust your eyes, don't buy the paper buy the diamond, all that matters is you love it, but if you saw this diamond side by side with one that was cut better in all lighting situations I'll bet you would develop an informed preference for the better cut.

To have better light performance they'd have to grind away more material and it would end up losing carat weight.
That's why cutters like to cut them deep to make more money.
Few people understand good cut but everyone understands carat weight.

AGS's top cut grade is more friendly to the consumer; GIA's is more friendly with the diamond industry - which pays their bills.
Unlike GIA, HCA is not paid by diamond sellers to evaluate diamond cut so HCA has no financial motivation to encourage deep diamonds.

Since good light performance (cut) is more important to the beauty of a diamond than color or clarity I'd keep shopping.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

firstly I would like to thank all of you for the feedback.
Being new to the forum and recently searching for a stone, the amount of factors and variables sometimes seem overwhelming. Just when you think you have found the "one" - you realize there are another set of variables you may have overlooked.

I truly feel that GIA excellent cut does and should stand for a quality cut stone.

Using the AGA/NAJA cut class tool, it shows a rating of 1A or 1B across all categories except for pav depth 2A.

Maybe I am just over thinking the process.

Both of these stones look excellent to my eyes.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Since you are buying in person, take the diamonds into many different lighting environments and compare. You can also buy and Ideal Scope for about $25 (link under tools, above) and use it to help you evaluate the two diamonds.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

rockshopping555|1332177611|3152122 said:
I truly feel that GIA excellent cut does and should stand for a quality cut stone.

Me too but, hey, money corrupts.

It may seem complicated but actually round is the easiest shape when shopping for the best cut.
There are two steps, HCA and Idealscope.
Here's how to find a well cut round...

Reject stones that score over 2.0 on the HCA.
Get Idealscope pics for those scoring under 2.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Compare the pic to this chart:



The reason the HCA is only a rejection tool and not a selection tool is the crown and pavilion angles used are each an AVERAGE of the 8 angles around the diamond.
Ideally they all would be identical but if some were high and some were low they could average out to an ideal angle.

The Idealscope pic is an actual pic of the diamond itself; it's not math and not averaged numbers to it can't be tricked.
The pic will reveal wonky cutting that the HCA can't catch.

using_IS_Reference_Chart_72.jpg
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

rockshopping555|1332177611|3152122 said:
Both of these stones look excellent to my eyes.

Careful.

Maybe that's because they are not sitting next to one that's cut better.

You could buy one of these and be very happy till some day you see it next to a better-cut diamond.

Why not shoot for one that's closer to the center of the bullseye of good cut?
It's easy to do, using the two tools you've been given.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

The HCA comes back with:

Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread Very Good

So the consensus here is that these results are very noticable when comparing to a HCA score of under 2?

the issue here being that I cannot see the diamonds side by side.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

If you cannot see these two side by side, then you need both jewelers to call in stones you *can* compare with that are known great performers. GIA Ex with HCA under 2, or AGS0 cut grade works.

The HCA isa dichotomous tool -- over 2 (reject) or under 2 (examine further). Don't concern yourself with the various labels.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Reject over 2s.
IS pics for under 2s.

It's simple.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Dreamer_D|1332182533|3152203 said:
If you cannot see these two side by side, then you need both jewelers to call in stones you *can* compare with that are known great performers. GIA Ex with HCA under 2, or AGS0 cut grade works.

The HCA isa dichotomous tool -- over 2 (reject) or under 2 (examine further). Don't concern yourself with the various labels.

Moreover, the HCA is based on one person's preferences (preferences that a lot of Pricescopers agree with). I think of under 2 as 95% probability worth buying, so examine further (you don't want to be in the 5%!!!), over 2 very small probability of worth buying. If you can see the stones in person over 2 isn't an auto-reject, but stones over 2 should be treated skeptically - especially for novice diamond buyers!

rockshopping555, you probably have figured this out from the above posts, but VERY small changes in pavilion angle make all the difference in the world. According to his website, Garry (inventor of the HCA) did a study of angles and found that every one degree of change in pavilion angle matters as much as 5 degrees of change in crown angle.

GIven that, the two stones you described are not similar at all.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

rockshopping555|1332177611|3152122 said:
firstly I would like to thank all of you for the feedback.
Being new to the forum and recently searching for a stone, the amount of factors and variables sometimes seem overwhelming. Just when you think you have found the "one" - you realize there are another set of variables you may have overlooked.

I truly feel that GIA excellent cut does and should stand for a quality cut stone.

Using the AGA/NAJA cut class tool, it shows a rating of 1A or 1B across all categories except for pav depth 2A.

Maybe I am just over thinking the process.

Both of these stones look excellent to my eyes.

There you have hit upon something important. GIA, AGA, and Garry Holloway have all developed their own metrics to identify the best cut. AGA is very stringent, so if they like the stone I am inclined to think it may be a good stone. That said, most Pricescope shoppers try to get AGA 1A or 1B stones and won't buy 2A stones.

kenny|1332178090|3152131 said:
rockshopping555|1332177611|3152122 said:
I truly feel that GIA excellent cut does and should stand for a quality cut stone.

Me too but, hey, money corrupts.

I think this is unnecessarily cynical, and unhelpful to inexperienced consumers who may not have access to AGS stones. GIA is closer to the industry (and indeed trained most of the industry) than, say AGS, but it isn't a for-profit enterprise and I think "corrupts" is an extremely loaded term in today's culture.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

ChrisES|1332183813|3152224 said:
kenny|1332178090|3152131 said:
rockshopping555|1332177611|3152122 said:
I truly feel that GIA excellent cut does and should stand for a quality cut stone.

Me too but, hey, money corrupts.

I think this is unnecessarily cynical, and unhelpful to inexperienced consumers who may not have access to AGS stones. GIA is closer to the industry (and indeed trained most of the industry) than, say AGS, but it isn't a for-profit enterprise and I think "corrupts" is an extremely loaded term in today's culture.

Nothing wrong with a GIA-gaded stone that passes HCA and Idealscope tests.
I own a couple.
I'm just offering my opinion for why steep deep combinations get GIA's Excellent cut grade.

Is it cynical? Sure, but readers can form their own opinions.
Is it unnecessarily cynical? How much cynicism is necessary?

All things being equal I'd rather support AGS with my diamond-buying dollars.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Rock- before you drive yourself crazy:
There's different opinions about what is the "best" cut.

It's definitely in your best interest to look at some diamonds in person ....and hopefully you'll be able to see a range of GIA EX cut grade stones.

For people who've trained their eyes, and are familiar with the results, these tools ( HCA, IS) are far easier to use than for someone who has not used them- and remember, your jeweler is most likely in the second group- he or she may have no idea whatsoever what the HCA is. That does not mean they're not educated in well cut stones.
There's real, discernible visual differences with GIA's EX cut grade- which is why looking at stones is a great idea.
If you can see the subtle differences within GIA's EX cut grade, you may very well prefer stones that get knocked by HCA_ or have a different opinion than others posting.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Now I am even more confused.

GIA rates the stone as Excellent cut, Excellent symm and VG polish.
Using the AGA tool I get an overall grade of 1B
the HCA tool shows a 4.3

How can there be such a huge discrepancy with all 3 grading systems?
I thought GIA certification was the industry standard and no further evaluation would be needed.

the problem is to my eyes, I have a hard time seeing the difference between cut grades on stones. Others may be able to notice and I do not want to purchase a dud stone.

bottom line:
Is it being sugested that I should pass on the stone based on the HCA test alone, taking into account the AGA result of 1B and GIA excellent certification?

Thanks everyone in advance!
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

rockshopping555|1332185275|3152252 said:
Now I am even more confused.

GIA rates the stone as Excellent cut, Excellent symm and VG polish.
Using the AGA tool I get an overall grade of 1B
the HCA tool shows a 4.3

How can there be such a huge discrepancy with all 3 grading systems?
I thought GIA certification was the industry standard and no further evaluation would be needed.

the problem is to my eyes, I have a hard time seeing the difference between cut grades on stones. Others may be able to notice and I do not want to purchase a dud stone.

bottom line:
Is it being sugested that I should pass on the stone based on the HCA test alone, taking into account the AGA result of 1B and GIA excellent certification?

Thanks everyone in advance!

GIA is the industry standard for the evaluation of color and clarity (the evaluation of both of which they pioneered and most will agree perfected). But GIA got into the cut-evaluation game late (in 2006), and most Pricescopers think their system is insufficiently discriminatory.

Cut-grading has only really been seen as a science for about 15 years...most jewelers have been in business longer than that (and certainly since before 2006) so they tell consumers that GIA is the industry-standard because it is - or at least was when they were learning their trade.

In other words, by coming to PS and educating yourself about cut quality you are truly entering the ranks of the elite consumers - if you take the time to really read everything on this site you will know more about cut quality than most diamond retailers.

On the bottom line:
We're not suggesting that you pass on the stone on the HCA alone, we're saying that the combined wisdom of the PS community is that the GIA and AGA scores *alone* do not conclusively prove that HCA is wrong in this case (although HCA can be wrong!). In the absence of idealscope images and/or seeing the stone in person ourselves and/or seeing the stone alongside other stones, prudence suggests passing on the stone. Better safe than sorry.

And for all my complaints about the HCA and about cynicism, I wholeheartedly agree that it's better to be safe than sorry when buying a diamond.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Post report numbers and exact ct weights, or pics of the proportions diagrams. We are missing lots of other important info - age of report, other proportions, notations/comments, clarity plots that might indicate features of interest...


GIA averages measurements around eight sections of diamond, rounds those measurements (crown to nearest 0.5deg, pav up to 0.2deg), prints those rounded averages on the report, and assigns a cut grade based on those printed numbers. AGSL also averages but does not round, and their cut grade calculations (for the DQD report) are more complex (not strictly proportions-based). The scanners the labs use are accurate to 0.1deg.

Given all of that, quibbling over a 0.1 or 0.2 deg (since GIA rounds up) difference and how that chnages HCA score is a totally meaningless venture, truly! Some people have "mind-clean" cutoffs, and that's fine, but not necessary in getting a lovely stone. If you *saw* them in-person, compared with your own eyes in a variety of lighting types, and preferred one over the other - this is a no-brainer: go with whichever one your eyes chose! If you are buying blind then yes, you want to get more info on both before making a decision, because neither is a "safe" buy from the info we've got.



Would definitely recommend getting more info on, for example -
GIA 55/34.5/41.4 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1185054.asp
GIA 56/34.5/41.4 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VVS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1405733.asp
AGS 56.5/34.9/41.3 (GIA would call this 35/41.4) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1416818.asp

I'd consider if I could see them in-person -
55/35/41.4 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1385023.asp
56/35/41.4 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1459266.asp
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

rockshopping555|1332185275|3152252 said:
bottom line:
Is it being sugested that I should pass on the stone based on the HCA test alone, taking into account the AGA result of 1B and GIA excellent certification?

I certainly would not suggest rejecting the stone based on the HCA score alone. I think I posted pretty clearly there are many different ways to assess cut quality, and for the lay person, in my opinion the GIA cut grade should be the most important criteria.

ETA: Another option is to buy one diamond from the vendor who has the best return policy -- any vendor should offer at least a week no questions asked cash back policy -- and take it to the secodn vendor to compare the two diamonds in person.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

ChrisES said:
rockshopping555|1332185275|3152252 said:
Now I am even more confused.

GIA rates the stone as Excellent cut, Excellent symm and VG polish.
Using the AGA tool I get an overall grade of 1B
the HCA tool shows a 4.3

How can there be such a huge discrepancy with all 3 grading systems?
I thought GIA certification was the industry standard and no further evaluation would be needed.

the problem is to my eyes, I have a hard time seeing the difference between cut grades on stones. Others may be able to notice and I do not want to purchase a dud stone.

bottom line:
Is it being sugested that I should pass on the stone based on the HCA test alone, taking into account the AGA result of 1B and GIA excellent certification?

Thanks everyone in advance!

GIA is the industry standard for the evaluation of color and clarity (the evaluation of both of which they pioneered and most will agree perfected). But GIA got into the cut-evaluation game late (in 2006), and most Pricescopers think their system is insufficiently discriminatory.

Cut-grading has only really been seen as a science for about 15 years...most jewelers have been in business longer than that (and certainly since before 2006) so they tell consumers that GIA is the industry-standard because it is - or at least was when they were learning their trade.

In other words, by coming to PS and educating yourself about cut quality you are truly entering the ranks of the elite consumers - if you take the time to really read everything on this site you will know more about cut quality than most diamond retailers.

On the bottom line:
We're not suggesting that you pass on the stone on the HCA alone, we're saying that the combined wisdom of the PS community is that the GIA and AGA scores *alone* do not conclusively prove that HCA is wrong in this case (although HCA can be wrong!). In the absence of idealscope images and/or seeing the stone in person ourselves and/or seeing the stone alongside other stones, prudence suggests passing on the stone. Better safe than sorry.

And for all my complaints about the HCA and about cynicism, I wholeheartedly agree that it's better to be safe than sorry when buying a diamond.

A lot of great points raised. I agree that a large percentage of people selling diamonds are, unfortunately, less educated about cut the than many seasoned PS members.
However that still leaves a percentage ( however small) of knowledgeable diamond sellers.
The manner of education is another subject- but as it applies to this discussion- there's different schools of thought about what the "best" is- and then there is the market.

Chris- GIA got into the "cut grade game" in the '90's.
It took them forever to finally adopt a standard.
I can understand and appreciate both sides of the argument- that being, is GIA's EX cut grade too wide.
If one is looking for the "cream of the crop" in consistency, and measurable brilliance, it's going to lead to the type of "super ideal" stones that are well loved here- with good reason.

Rock ( love the name btw) - please do publish the stats on the GIA report- that will allow us to at least get the facts for what they are worth.
But at the end of the day, you have to look at and love this stone.
You're spending a pile of cash- if you are indeed looking at a GIA graded "Triple EX" there's little likelihood you're being sold anything but a very well cut stone. The market comes into this discussion because there's a base price for a GIA "triple EX".
You can do your own research by doing a search using the PS search functions above. See the variation of prices within stones of ostensibly similar stats. A stone that scores better on optical tests, and charts may actually cost more. For some people it's well worth it.

Looking at stones will help you to decide if it's worth paying extra for a super ideal stone.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Yssie|1332192609|3152315 said:
Given all of that, quibbling over a 0.1 or 0.2 deg (since GIA rounds up) difference and how that chnages HCA score is a totally meaningless venture, truly!

Just pointing out that the stones varied by .8, not .2. 40.6 vs 41.4.


Rockdiamond|1332200302|3152418 said:
Chris- GIA got into the "cut grade game" in the '90's.
It took them forever to finally adopt a standard.

Whoa, thank you David!!! I completely misunderstood that!
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

ChrisES|1332204784|3152490 said:
Yssie|1332192609|3152315 said:
Given all of that, quibbling over a 0.1 or 0.2 deg (since GIA rounds up) difference and how that chnages HCA score is a totally meaningless venture, truly!

Just pointing out that the stones varied by .8, not .2. 40.6 vs 41.4.


Yes, it is!

I meant with the HCA cutoff specifically - a -.2deg difference can make a huge difference in HCA score, but IRL may not mean anything ::)
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

If you want to understand a little more about the HCA and how it sometimes excludes good stones, you can read this (especially the limitations section):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/content.php?c=159

That diamond is scoring poorly because it is predicted to have some leakage with the 41.4 pavilion angle. I do not automatically cut stones off at an HCA score of 2 anymore, but I definitely don't look at those that score 3 or higher since there are many stone that would fall in GIA EX that would be better.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

now to try and clear some stuff up.

35/41.4 Actual measurements.
HCA is right, under table leakage and starting of color entrapment, not a very good combo.

35/41.4 gia measurements.
The numbers are rounded then averaged then grossly averaged again.
Which makes them pretty useless.
Plus we don't know what the lower half number which GIA also grossly rounds after averaging and could make a very large difference.

The bottom line educated deduction is this stone no matter what is not a very top cut but might be just ok but then again it might not be.
The GIA numbers are not accurate enough to tell.

The GIA EX grade includes some combos that I would not consider buying and excludes some I would consider buying.
I know that is not what many people want to hear but that is my opinion.

The HCA in some cases is overly harsh on diamonds with pavilion angles over 41 but in this case if the pavilion angle is indeed 41.4 or over and the crown 35 then the diamond has issues and I agree with the HCA.

Again my opinion.


I hope I haven't made this even more confusing.
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

if you wanna play it safe then look for a 34.5 crown X 40.7-40.8 pavil combo.. ;))
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Karl_K|1332218584|3152592 said:
now to try and clear some stuff up.

35/41.4 Actual measurements.
HCA is right, under table leakage and starting of color entrapment, not a very good combo.

35/41.4 gia measurements.
The numbers are rounded then averaged then grossly averaged again.
Which makes them pretty useless.
Plus we don't know what the lower half number which GIA also grossly rounds after averaging and could make a very large difference.

The bottom line educated deduction is this stone no matter what is not a very top cut but might be just ok but then again it might not be.
The GIA numbers are not accurate enough to tell.

The GIA EX grade includes some combos that I would not consider buying and excludes some I would consider buying.
I know that is not what many people want to hear but that is my opinion.

The HCA in some cases is overly harsh on diamonds with pavilion angles over 41 but in this case if the pavilion angle is indeed 41.4 or over and the crown 35 then the diamond has issues and I agree with the HCA.

Again my opinion.


I hope I haven't made this even more confusing.


Ditto. :read:
 
Re: GIA Excellent cut does not grade well in HCA ***help nee

Yssie|1332206101|3152498 said:
ChrisES|1332204784|3152490 said:
Yssie|1332192609|3152315 said:
Given all of that, quibbling over a 0.1 or 0.2 deg (since GIA rounds up) difference and how that chnages HCA score is a totally meaningless venture, truly!

Just pointing out that the stones varied by .8, not .2. 40.6 vs 41.4.


Yes, it is!

I meant with the HCA cutoff specifically - a -.2deg difference can make a huge difference in HCA score, but IRL may not mean anything ::)

Aha, I see.
 
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