Getting down to the wire

[mikeyinga]

Hi there - long-time lurker, first time poster. This site has been a great help in my diamond-buying process. Thanks to those of you that make it happen.

I''m down to 3 final contenders and would like some opinions. First, what you should know is that my g/f and I are both pretty active -- we spend a lot of time outdoors trail running, mountain biking, etc. She has a tendency to be hard on "stuff" -- don''t know if that would apply to a diamond, but fwiw, she''s always going 110mph.

This diamond is going into a Coast platinum setting. These 3 diamonds are local and I''ve seen them all - they''re each beautiful.

Which one? All 3 are GIA diamonds, princess cut.

Diamond 1:
1.50 carats
6.40 x 6.24
H
VS2
Pol: Good
Sym: Good
Flour: None
"Slightly thick" girdle
$6888 wire price

Diamond 2:
1.59 carats
6.64 x 6.55
H
VVS2
Pol: Very Good
Sym: Very Good
Flour: None
"very thin" girdle
$8124 wire price

Diamond 3:
1.52 carats
6.28 x 6.05
G
SI1 (very ''eye-clean'')
Pol: Excellent
Sym: Excellent
Flour: None
"thick" girdle
$8250 wire price

I appreciate any suggestions, or commentary.

Thanks!

 

[jstarfireb]

Unfortunately, we can''t tell by the numbers whether any of these stones will be beautiful firecrackers or total duds! So if you''ve seen them all with your own eyes and in different lightings, we''ll have to trust that they''re beautiful.

My choice would be Diamond #1, but even then I would probably still keep looking. Here''s my rationale...Diamond #2 has a "Very thin" girdle, which will put it at risk for breakage, especially when worn by a very active lady! Diamond #3 is hiding some weight in its thick girdle, but it''s also quite off-square, and I prefer more square looking princess cuts. That leaves us with #1, which isn''t off-square by too much and has good dimensions for its weight. However, I''m a little wary of "good" polish and symmetry, because I prefer VG or EX; that''s why I''d keep looking. This may be a little nitpicky thing though.

 

[AndyMN]

Hi Mikey. Absolutely no way to predict performance in a fancy shape. GIA color, clarity and finish grading is reliable – but they give no information about performance and we can’t tell you whether they may be lifeless or dazzling without more. An ASET image would be most helpful to those of us trained to interpret them from afar.

 

[mikeyinga]

Thanks for the reply - the very thin girdle of #2 is my biggest concern about my favorite of the 3. Regarding dimensions, isn''t <1.5:1 considered "good", or ideal?

 

[mikeyinga]

Performance...? Do you mean how the diamond shines/sparkles, etc? I''m not sure that an ASET image is available.

 

[AndyMN]

“Very thin” is the thinnest point of a range. It may imply only one tiny harmless position, it could mean a significant portion, or it could be at the vulnerable corners. No way to know without analyzing it. And yes! Performance is absolutely how it shines and sparkles and (arguably) is the most important part of diamonds beauty. Unfortunately GIA gives no performance information. Personally I would rather have a diamond with low color and clarity that dazzled my eyes with sparkle than a D Flawless that is a lifeless lump of carbon.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 8/25/2008 8:17:44 PM
Author: AndyMN
“Very thin” is the thinnest point of a range. It may imply only one tiny harmless position, it could mean a significant portion, or it could be at the vulnerable corners. No way to know without analyzing it. And yes! Performance is absolutely how it shines and sparkles and (arguably) is the most important part of diamonds beauty. Unfortunately GIA gives no performance information. Personally I would rather have a diamond with low color and clarity that dazzled my eyes with sparkle than a D Flawless that is a lifeless lump of carbon.

Great advice! To that end, Mike, can you look at some AGS0 princesses (Jared carries them if you don''t know anyone else who does)? This would allow you to compare the stones you found to the "gold standard" for princess cuts.

As for L:W ratio, it''s all about personal preference. I prefer a princess cut stone that is as close to 1:1 as possible. I think the majority of us agree, although there may be some people who prefer a rectangular princess.

 

[mikeyinga]

AGS0 Princess - is that a brand (sorry for the newb question)? There is a jared nearby, I''ll try to drop in there tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips, I think. If I keep looking, I''m not sure what I should be looking for...

I''ll check out the AGS0 and post back tomorrow.

BTW, I forgot to post the %''s for the above stones:

#1
Table 75
depth 73.2

#2
Table 75
depth 72.2

#3
Table 67
depth 76.2

I know that #3 has the most desirable table, but.... ugh, finding the right balance across all of these characteristics is mind-numbing.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/25/2008 9:31:49 PM
Author: mikeyinga
AGS0 Princess - is that a brand (sorry for the newb question)? There is a jared nearby, I''ll try to drop in there tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips, I think. If I keep looking, I''m not sure what I should be looking for...

I''ll check out the AGS0 and post back tomorrow.

Mike, don''t be sorry we all are learning.

It is a certificate to the lab, AGS (like GIA but another lab).

 

[mikeyinga]

Thanks...

So...to clarify, an AGS, princess cut diamond is sorta like the standard others should be measured against...?

 

[jstarfireb]

Nope, not a brand...AGS is the American Gemological Society, and they are the only lab that grades princesses on cut quality. The zero means ideal. So I''m just saying you should get an idea of what an ideal cut princess looks like before you commit to one that may or may not rank as an ideal! Jared also has its own line of ideal cut princesses called the "Peerless" diamonds. These are beautiful stones but quite overpriced! You can find a similarly gorgeous princess elsewhere without paying for the Jared brand name.
As an example, here is a gorgeous looking 1.5ct AGS0 princess...just look at that Gemex report - off the charts!

As for your stones'' specs, #3 is a little deep...now, depth doesn''t affect the optics of princesses like it does rounds, but it does mean there''s a little extra carat weight being hidden instead of appearing face up. Look at the dimensions vs. diamond 1 for example...#3 is smaller even though it''s of larger carat weight! This is likely due to the combination of large depth and thick girdle.

The depth/table measurements confirm my decision to keep looking if I were in your position. Try to find a table that''s smaller than the depth; it''s not a hard and fast rule, but will help you avoid stones with a "glassy" appearance.

 

[mikeyinga]

That''s really great info...

A quick Google search and I found this:

"AGS Diamond Certification

Origins
Founded in 1943, The American Gem Society (AGS) is dedicated to upholding the highest ethical standards in the diamond and jewelry industries. Professional and consumer education are AGS priorities, and the society offers courses to all segments of the diamond industry.

The AGS established a laboratory in 1996 to provide modern diamond grading services for the diamond marketplace. Its conservative approach to diamond grading has made the AGS one of the world''s most respected gemological laboratories.

The AGS was the first diamond laboratory to issue a separate grade for diamond cut and to include that grade in each diamond report. Many laboratories have yet to catch up with innovations the AGS pioneered a decade ago.
AGS Diamond Quality Document and Diamond Quality Report
AGS uses a unique 0 to 10 grading system to quantify diamond color, clarity, and cut. A grade of 0 indicates the rarest, most desirable quality; a 10 rating is the least desirable. Each number corresponds to the internationally accepted GIA diamond scale nomenclature.

Methodology
Every AGS diamond certificate includes grades for color, clarity, carat weight, and cut. One AGS laboratory gemologist grades the diamond and then passes it to another gemologist, who also grades the stone. The diamond is then returned to the AGS laboratory''s support team, which enters the stone''s specifications into a database and prepares a final report for the owner.

* Each diamond is weighed to the third decimal place by means of a digital carat balance.
* The stone is electronically measured to obtain millimeter size and proportions.A precise diagram of all proportions and angles is included in each diamond certificate.
* The diamond is tested for validity and enhancements, and shape and cut style are noted.
* Color is determined by comparing the stone to master diamonds.
* Specialized lighting and a binocular microscope are used to determine clarity, which is plotted on a diamond diagram.

View an example of the AGS Diamond Quality Document and the Diamond Quality Report.

Cut Grade
AGS considers the following factors when determining a diamond''s cut grade:

* Light Performance (0-10 scale): A measure of the diamond''s brightness and light dispersion as well as leakage of light and contrast.
* Proportion Factors (0-10 scale): Girdle thickness, size of culet, weight ratio, durability, and tilt are considered individually and then factored together to determine a final grade.
* Finish (0-10 scale): Finish is graded based on the diamond''s polish (smoothness of facets) and symmetry (uniformity of diamond shape and facet placement)."


I''m really amazed that the price on that stone you linked to is $8100 - is that a good price? I color?

Guess I should pricescope it and keep looking...and to think I thought I was so close!

 

[mikeyinga]

OK, I did a lot of research on AGS 0 certified diamonds both online and locally (Jared''s peerless -- good giggly wiggly they were so overpriced!) And, to be honest, I''m not willing to spend the extra coin to get ''certified'' sparkle. That said, I''m going to try to do my best to find a local GIA quality Princess cut.

Another option that I came across is this one:

GIA Princess
1.34c
H
VS1
Pol: Excellent
Sym: Very Good
Flour: None
6.14 x 6.06
Medium girdle
70% table
71.9% depth

The GIA Cert doesn''t map any feather''s, cavities or pinpoints. Price on this stone is $6000.

thoughts?

 

[mikeyinga]

Busy round here today - I''d love an opinion on option#4 above from an expert in this stuff...!

thanks!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

hey, Mikey,

I know nothing about princesses, so unfortunately I can''t point you in the right direction. I do think that in general the larger the table on a stone, the "glassier" the stone will look. I''m not sure what a good table % on a princess is, but do know that with most shapes the table % should be smaller than the depth %. Obviously a princess is a fancy cut, so how the stone looks to your eyes is more important than the numbers.

I''m not sure if you''re open to it, but a cheap band might be a good idea for her to wear when she''s trail running, mountain biking, etc. I do a ton of trail running, mountain climbing and rock climbing and while I love my e-ring, I barely ever wear it. I usually keep a cheap surgical steel band on my hand. When I was engaged and had no band, my hand was almost always naked and I sometimes wished I had something to signify I was engaged/married. You might just want to ask her if she''d like a band to wear after you propose?

Good luck to you!!!

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 8/27/2008 3:11:15 PM
Author: mikeyinga
OK, I did a lot of research on AGS 0 certified diamonds both online and locally (Jared''s peerless -- good giggly wiggly they were so overpriced!) And, to be honest, I''m not willing to spend the extra coin to get ''certified'' sparkle. That said, I''m going to try to do my best to find a local GIA quality Princess cut.

Another option that I came across is this one:
GIA Princess
1.34c
H
VS1
Pol: Excellent
Sym: Very Good
Flour: None
6.14 x 6.06
Medium girdle
70% table
71.9% depth
The GIA Cert doesn''t map any feather''s, cavities or pinpoints. Price on this stone is $6000.

thoughts?

Well, I would disagree on the bolded part...if it were me, I''d go down just a tad in size so I could find an ideal cut stone. This is because princesses in general have more light leakage than rounds, and I would be willing to sacrifice other parameters (size, color, clarity) to maximize light return. Trust me; we girls LOVE our sparkle! And cut is what really gives a diamond its sparkle.

For example, if you have $7-8k to play around with (based on your first post), this diamond is an AGS ideal which is just a little bit smaller than the size you want, but it''s bound to be a firecracker! And it goes to show you that not all AGS ideal diamonds are overpriced like the Peerless diamonds.

As for the stone you''re looking at, the numbers sound promising, but this does not mean it will be a beautiful stone; it''s just one I wouldn''t rule out solely on the basis of numbers. Can you get pictures? An ASET image would be the most helpful if it''s possible to get; an Idealscope would also help.

If you''re willing to consider online purchases and are looking for a GIA cert, how about
this stone from James Allen? Same color and clarity as the one you''re looking at; measurements and carat weight are close. The picture looks very appealing to me, and JA can supply Idealscope images (unfortunately not ASETs).

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/27/2008 3:11:15 PM
Author: mikeyinga
OK, I did a lot of research on AGS 0 certified diamonds both online and locally (Jared''s peerless -- good giggly wiggly they were so overpriced!) And, to be honest, I''m not willing to spend the extra coin to get ''certified'' sparkle. That said, I''m going to try to do my best to find a local GIA quality Princess cut.

Another option that I came across is this one:

GIA Princess
1.34c
H
VS1
Pol: Excellent
Sym: Very Good
Flour: None
6.14 x 6.06
Medium girdle
70% table
71.9% depth

The GIA Cert doesn''t map any feather''s, cavities or pinpoints. Price on this stone is $6000.

thoughts?

Mike, we really need photos and preferably an ASET image to judge this diamond if you can get them. What you could do is to try to view some AGS0 Princess in person, get a feel for what you like, then look around.