General idea of value of diamond ring

[mwq3434]

Wholesale that is, as it's doubtful I would encounter an end user.

I know my question may be vague but a ballpark hi/lo on pricing would be much appreciated on the following ---

5.95 carat diamond ring, solitaire, 14 gold, round, color J, VVS1, american cut -- hope I'm not leaving something out but I think that's all the info I have.

It was appraised years ago but unable to locate the paperwork.

Is it possible to get an idea on value? -- tried some of the online calculators but not sure what merit they have.

Thanks kindly.

 

[Fife]

Ideal Cut 5.5 J-colored diamond on Bluenile is 100k.

 

[mwq3434]

thank you and that's wholesale I assume. not sure of cut but would imagine (knowing the individual) it's very good or excellent.

appreciate it. was hoping for a bit more -- we'll see.

 

[haldayyzed]

No that would be a retail price, and one based on a proper certificate, etc.

 

[kenny]

A couple color or clarity grades can make a HUGE difference in value, especially in a near 6 carat diamond.

If it does not have a lab report from GIA or AGS you cannot be certain of the color and clarity grades, so IMHO step one is to get it removed from the setting and sent to GIA.
It will cost $409 but to anyone buying the diamond it is the most trusted document, so it is worth its weight in gold when establishing a price.
Other labs like EGL, UGL and IGI are soft on grading and I'd not bother with them; informed buyers don't take their grades seriously.

You can send it to GIA yourself; they will deal directly with the public.
Personally I'd hand carry it to their location in NY or Carlsbad California and make a vacation out of it.
AGS is in Las Vegas and will not accept a stone from the public; you have to submit it through one of their member jewelers.

If you must ship it I'd recommend www.malcaamit.com
They specialize in shipping diamonds all over the world.
But if there is a loss they'd need proof of value, and grades from GIA are needed to do that, so you have a chicken and egg problem.
Hence, I recommend you hand carry it to GIA yourself.
Plus depending on where you live a plane ticket to NY or CA may be cheaper than shipping and insuring such a diamond.

http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/LAB_feeschedule_Diamond_07012012_USD.pdf

 

[cl600500]

that puppys HUGE its probably worth over a 100k depending on the cut, but you wont get that when you sell it, you might be offered 50k-60k for it at a pawn shop or jewelry store, selling jewelry is like selling a car you pay top dollar and get shafted when you sell it.......UNLESS you personally purchased a piece of jewelry years ago and due to inflation and the rise of commodity prices over time you will be able to get more *if your lucky*,

 

[mwq3434]

Thank you -- yes, I want to do this right so GIA it is. Shame they only have those 2 locations (? !)

I don't want to sound paranoid but when I take it to them, am I allowed to watch the process and be able to keep my eyes on everything?

Can THEY take it out of the mounting?

Also -- I'll look it up but I assume they're in NYC?

Thanks again.

 

[mwq3434]

Ok -- went to their site -- dumb question about "watching" the process.

NYC obviously as well.

What is the "client agreement"?

Can someone tell me what to expect when I drop it off in person? And how long will I have to be in NYC?

THANKS !

 

[kenny]

Don't worry.
GIA is reputable and won't steal/swap your stone.
They are trusted with diamonds worth tens of millions of dollars.
I believe yours will get more attention from more people because it's a larger stone.

The only bad thing about GIA is they are slow.
It can take weeks, and no you can't watch.

Here's what to expect, at least this was my experience at GIA in Carlsbad CA.
You read and sign a long contract.

Security is understandably tight.
You present ID (ask them which forms you need), I think they took my fingerprints and maybe my picture too before they let me in.
You pass through a room with security doors on both sides while dealing with people on the other side of bullet-proof glass.

When I picked up my diamond I asked to speak with a senior person since I had many technical questions.
A very knowledgeable woman spent a lot of time with me in a private room with a microscope pointing out things about my diamond.
I don't know if they do this in NY or for all clients or it is just that I asked nicely.

Look up their phone number and ask to talk to their lab.
They don't bite.

BTW you said your diamond is J VVS1.
Who determined these grades?

 

[mwq3434]

Not sure but it was at least 30 years ago -- my guess is, based on the individual is that they were accurate (we'll see).

Thanks for that info.

One other question (and I have my reasons for asking) --

You say they ask for name etc.

Does that mean your name goes into a searchable database connected with the diamond? Or do they keep the information confidential?

This is all above board but I have a valid, understandable reason for wanting to know.

THANKS.

 

[denverappraiser]

I"m going to disagree with the above. Start with a competent appraisal, not GIA.

You are missing some critical information here and you are making some giant assumptions based on an unattributed report that I presume is years or even decades old. You HAVE to have it removed from the setting anyway and I would not recommend doing this yourself. No, GIA won’t do it.

The difference between VVS1 and VS2 is both enormous and subtle. The difference between I and M is enormous as well, and both can be confused with J. Relatively minor damage is a huge deal. ‘American cut’ ranges from a defect to a feature depending on what they mean by that. There's more. Again, you've made some gigantic assumptions that you've stated as facts and they must be resolved before anyone will be interested in a buy unless your price is so low that it just doesn't matter.

‘Wholesale’ is a tricky word in the diamond business. It can mean a lot of different things and it usually DOESN’T mean the price that a dealer could be reasonably expected to pay someone for a particular diamond. When you talk to your appraiser, make sure they understand the question.

Rush service at GIA is 4 -10 days. Ask, they'll tell you the current schedule. 'While you wait' isn't one of the choices unless were talking about waiting a week. No, you can’t watch.
GIA client records are supoenable I suppose but short of that they are confidential. This is true of any appraiser that is worth considering as well. If you really want to hide your provenance you can do it as a corporation but if it's someone like the taxman you're hiding from, they will have little trouble unravelling that.

What’s it worth for resale? That depends on the details and your own selling skills. Probably at least $30k. Probably less than $80k. That’s a big range and even that has those probably's in there as qualifiers. It’s a fair amount of money any way you look at it unless the paperwork you have is way out of whack. The difference is in the details. That’s why you should be talking to a pro rather than guessing with free advice from people who haven't seen it or, even worse, looking it up on some online chart. Should it be repaired before going to GIA? Possibly. Again, that’s why to start with a pro.

 

[mwq3434]

For being a complete novice on this, I'm sure I'm not alone when your overriding emotion is fear of being "manipulated" and ripped off.

I'm in a major metro area -- so going to a local appraiser would I be able to watch their activity ? I set up an appointment ? or just walk in, wanting an appraisal ?

And they do it in front of me?

There are a ton of jewelers in town -- what credentials should I look for?

Also -- GIA will or will not accept diamonds form the general public?

Do you have to be one of their clients?


By the way, how in the world would anyone sell a diamond on Ebay ? Can't figure that one out.

 

[distracts]

You shouldn't go to an appraiser who is or is associated with a jeweler, as they are not independent and may have ulterior motives connected to their business of buying/selling. You should go to an appraiser that does not buy or sell diamonds. Pricescope has a list of appraisers under the resources tab.

GIA does accept diamonds from the general public. AGS does not, but you can find an AGS client (jeweler or appraiser) and have them submit it for you.

You sell diamonds on eBay just like you sell anything else. Though for a large diamond such as yours, I think consigning with a reputable jeweler would give you and the buyer more peace of mind.

 

[denverappraiser]

For being a complete novice on this, I'm sure I'm not alone when your overriding emotion is fear of being "manipulated" and ripped off.

I'm in a major metro area -- so going to a local appraiser would I be able to watch their activity ? I set up an appointment ? or just walk in, wanting an appraisal ?

And they do it in front of me?

There are a ton of jewelers in town -- what credentials should I look for?

Also -- GIA will or will not accept diamonds form the general public?

Do you have to be one of their clients?


By the way, how in the world would anyone sell a diamond on Ebay ? Can't figure that one out.

I can’t speak for everyone but I work by appointment only and I do allow clients to wait and watch if they want. Most do. There’s a list of appraisers at the top of the page under the ‘resources’ tab and if you find one that seems interesting, ring them up and ask questions. Again, make sure they understand your question. MOST appraisals are not done for resale purposes and at best you end up with the correct answer to the wrong question. You’re looking for an ally and an information source in liquidating a fairly expensive pebble and although most good appraisers are prepared to assist at this, they don’t all offer the same bundle of services and this is not the typical request.

GIA will do work for anyone who pays them and who is willing to sign the client agreement. It's likely that your path IS going to lead to GIA by the way, I just don't see it as the first stop. You may or may not want the appraiser to be involved in submitting the stone. That depends on your own temprament for this sort of thing.

The credentials you want are appraisal and gemological training and a sound ethical base. Minimum would be a GG from GIA and appraisal training from at least one of ASA, ISA, MV, or a similar appraisal society. Ideally you want someone who is NOT trying to buy it from you.


If you're not an experienced ebayer I would seriously recommend against this as a path for an item this expensive. If you must do it that way, pay someone with experience and a high feedback to broker it for you. You will need the GIA. Decent photographs helps a lot and a superb feedback ratio with a history of sales of expensive diamonds is pretty much mandatory.

 

[kenny]

I just called GIA labs.

You can hand carry it into either GIA lab in the USA, with a valid driver's license.
You can get rush service, which is 24 hours if the diamond is 4 ct and under over 4 ct rush service is 4 - 7 business days in NY, and 2 - 5 business days in Carlsbad CA.
Rush service costs double their normal fee.

I wouldn't bother with an appraiser for this situation.
A GIA report holds much more weight.
No buyer is going to buy a 6 ct diamond without a report from GIA, or AGS.
There is too much money at stake.
You can spend money on an appraiser but you'll still need a GIA report to sell it IMHO.
Oh, and GIA does not assign a value.
An appraiser can do that but that number is a HUGE can of worms - do a search here on "appraised value".

 

[denverappraiser]

I just called GIA labs.

You can hand carry it into either GIA lab in the USA, with a valid driver's license.
You can get rush service, which is 24 hours if the diamond is 4 ct and under over 4 ct rush service is 4 - 7 business days in NY, and 2 - 5 business days in Carlsbad CA.
Rush service costs double their normal fee.

I wouldn't bother with an appraiser for this situation.
A GIA report holds much more weight.
No buyer is going to buy a 6 ct diamond without a report from GIA, or AGS.
There is too much money at stake.
You can spend money on an appraiser but you'll still need a GIA report to sell it IMHO.
Oh, and GIA does not assign a value.
An appraiser can do that but that number is a HUGE can of worms - do a search here on "appraised value".

GIA will not pull it.
GIA will not evaluate the repair/recut issues.
GIA will not route an appropriate stone to AGS and capture the premium associated with that.
GIA will not offer any advice whatever regarding marketing.
GIA will not answer the question in the headline of this thread.

The purpose of a resale appraisal is to give useful information to the client, not to provide a selling tool. I agree, any buyer with sense will want a recent report from GIA or AGS and they would be wise to rely on the advice of their own appraiser, not one chosen by the seller. I agree that a pass through the GIA lab is likely to be needed but I disagree that it's the first stop, and it's probably not even the second. A GIA that says it's a VS2/fair/fair because of abbraisions on the girdle and a wonky cut, for example, is a total waste of time and money if the repaired stone could be a VVS1/x/x. Hand carrying it to New York and spending 7 business days in a hotel waiting for them to finish just makes it worse unless you're one of those people who really loves New York. It should still get repaired, and the finished stone still needs to go back to GIA again for documentation in order to make a sale. Another $400 and another week in NYC later and you're back to where you would have been to start with if you hadn't saved the $100 on the appraiser.

 

[John P]

GIA will not evaluate the repair/recut issues.
GIA will not route an appropriate stone to AGS and capture the premium associated with that.
GIA will not offer any advice whatever regarding marketing.

Very true. I'm doing a lot of consulting on these topics lately, but for pros rather than consumers.

Jewelers who buy gold/silver are taking diamonds in from the public. I have a fair number who send older and damaged stones to me for consult. I'll analyze each and recommend how to maximize its potential. Sometimes I'll suggest just to boil it and send to a lab as-is, but in most cases I give options for improvement to X, Y or Z parameters along with the weight loss for each path. In nine out of ten cases I can save or make money for my clients by recommending a slight modification before it goes for grading.

This case reminds me of one from earlier this year. I was shown a 5.35ct F VVS1 GIA VG-VG from the '90s. It was a nice diamond, but not in a top cut category and a tiny feather on the table was setting the clarity grade. We modified that little gem to a 5.06 F IF GIA XXX, improving its value by over $80,000. Without a consult that opportunity might have been missed (and my clients are pros).

Considering the delicious room in this diamond to work and not fall into a lesser weight class (5.95, wow!) I do think some kind of consultation about status and potential prior to sending it to a lab is a good idea.

 

[mwq3434]

Well, this is all very informative and I really appreciate your advice and guidance -- everyone. It all makes sense and I suppose I need to at least "ask around" about appraisers locally.

Well, for one I need it taken out of the solitaire mounting and at minimum cleaned, so can the appraiser do this as well ?

I have no reason to doubt the original specs of VVS1, color J and so on -- but it was worn for the past 30 years so ?

I WILL take it to GIA myself and do the rush service at some point -- I would imagine after having the GIA paperwork, then pricing can come into play.

Should I then remount to sell as a ring or better to just sell the diamond ?

Of course Ebay is out of the question just can't figure out why anyone would do that. Do have a friend in the fine art business that says when the time comes he knows of buyer/seller that is reputable.

Boiling it to clean ? That's interesting -- don't know how they do it -- are ultrasonic cleaners used as well ?

"Possible" I can clean myself or don't attempt it ?

THANKS everybody.

 

[denverappraiser]

What he means by 'boiling' is boiling it in sulpheric acid and no, I would definitely not do this at home. If the stone is loose you can do a pretty good job with a bit of elbow grease, windex and a soft cloth. Again, not all appraisers offer the same sorts of services and what we're talking about is pretty high end. Ask.

For sales purposes you probably are better off with it loose. Customers who buy this sort of thing generally want to make it their own by resetting it anyway. The mounting is usually little more than scrap metal. The exception would be if it's a really cool piece and you end up with one of the auction houses like Sotheby's. Pictures are extremely important to them and jewelry takes better pictures than loose stones.

 

[John P]

Here are a few more items for you: I've seen stones drop in clarity due to normal wear. Something occurred over the years and miles which was invisible or negligible to the naked eye, but enough to get it dinged at the lab. Be sure to ask the person you consult with to assess that specifically, because if something did happen it's likely surface-oriented and will be practical to restore to VVS1.

"Appraisers" is a broad term so be smart in your selection. A true independent appraiser is one who has no affiliation with someone trying to sell you something. This is the opposite of a jeweler who moonlights as an appraiser, or an appraiser who operates "independently" out of a jewelry store.

Be aware that no training or license is required to appraise jewelry. You can hang a shingle and do it tomorrow if you like. You'll want to select a credentialed expert who is up-to-date on modern laboratory proportions/performance metrics and also versed in the art of diamond recut/repair (that is the tough one). The first requirement narrows the field considerably. The recut/repair requirement leaves only an elite group. I can count on two hands the number of such folks I consider in that category in the entire USA.

The consultation will cost relatively little but the right person is essential in my opinion. I don't know where you're located but Neil Beaty - who has posted in this thread - is such an example, as are Dave Atlas and Jeff Averbook who also contribute here.

You can ignore my comment about boiling. I was seeing who was paying attention among my fellow pros (Neil got it). This involves nitric and sulfuric acids and is terribly dangerous. Diamond cutting factories acid-boil after polishing to remove detritus from the stress, grit and heat of the polishing wheel - and secondary-market melee is boiled prior to sorting to liquify non diamond, CZ, glass, etc. I jokingly said it because in some cases you would not believe what jewelers buy-back from the public. I've been handed diamonds with nuked-on filth, blistered diamonds that came through house fires, diamonds still mounted in teeth, diamonds with furry varmints living in the chips...okay that one was a joke but teethy diamonds wasn't. Whenever I see these I tug the jeweler's tail about needing to set up an acid station. So nevermind...just my humor at play. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

You'll have an enjoyable time submitting to GIA. Just be aware that you'll hand it over and then pick it up later. Outsiders are not allowed on the lab floor. Plenty to do in NYC though. Like...shop for diamonds.

 

[WinkHPD]

Here are a few more items for you: I've seen stones drop in clarity due to normal wear. Something occurred over the years and miles which was invisible or negligible to the naked eye, but enough to get it dinged at the lab. Be sure to ask the person you consult with to assess that specifically, because if something did happen it's likely surface-oriented and will be practical to restore to VVS1.

"Appraisers" is a broad term so be smart in your selection. A true independent appraiser is one who has no affiliation with someone trying to sell you something. This is the opposite of a jeweler who moonlights as an appraiser, or an appraiser who operates "independently" out of a jewelry store.

Be aware that no training or license is required to appraise jewelry. You can hang a shingle and do it tomorrow if you like. You'll want to select a credentialed expert who is up-to-date on modern laboratory proportions/performance metrics and also versed in the art of diamond recut/repair (that is the tough one). The first requirement narrows the field considerably. The recut/repair requirement leaves only an elite group. I can count on two hands the number of such folks I consider in that category in the entire USA.

The consultation will cost relatively little but the right person is essential in my opinion. I don't know where you're located but Neil Beaty - who has posted in this thread - is such an example, as are Dave Atlas and Jeff Averbook who also contribute here.

You can ignore my comment about boiling. I was seeing who was paying attention among my fellow pros (Neil got it). This involves nitric and sulfuric acids and is terribly dangerous. Diamond cutting factories acid-boil after polishing to remove detritus from the stress, grit and heat of the polishing wheel - and secondary-market melee is boiled prior to sorting to liquify non diamond, CZ, glass, etc. I jokingly said it because in some cases you would not believe what jewelers buy-back from the public. I've been handed diamonds with nuked-on filth, blistered diamonds that came through house fires, diamonds still mounted in teeth, diamonds with furry varmints living in the chips...okay that one was a joke but teethy diamonds wasn't. Whenever I see these I tug the jeweler's tail about needing to set up an acid station. So nevermind...just my humor at play. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

You'll have an enjoyable time submitting to GIA. Just be aware that you'll hand it over and then pick it up later. Outsiders are not allowed on the lab floor. Plenty to do in NYC though. Like...shop for diamonds.

Keep in mind that calling Neil an appraiser is like calling a Lamborgini a car. The last time I heard there were a total of fourteen people in the world as well accredited as Neil in the appraisal arena. (Including Neil).

Wink

 

[mwq3434]

You guys may give me a hard time for asking this one and again, I'm really indebted to you for sharing your knowledge with me.

I've done a lot of work with electronics and precision "stuff" -- (try surface mount electronics these days) -- and was wondering because it doesn't "look" that difficult, if maybe taking the stone out of the setting myself might be doable.

I have every needle nose plier and a lot of jewelers size tools at my disposal plus magnification.

It's a solitaire setting with 6 grips -- sure "seems" easy enough ?

Bend all 6 back to get it out ? or enough of those grips (3 ?) just to get it out ?

Oh yeah -- ultrasonic cleaners -- yes/no ?

THANK YOU !

 

[WinkHPD]

You guys may give me a hard time for asking this one and again, I'm really indebted to you for sharing your knowledge with me.

I've done a lot of work with electronics and precision "stuff" -- (try surface mount electronics these days) -- and was wondering because it doesn't "look" that difficult, if maybe taking the stone out of the setting myself might be doable.

I have every needle nose plier and a lot of jewelers size tools at my disposal plus magnification.

It's a solitaire setting with 6 grips -- sure "seems" easy enough ?

Bend all 6 back to get it out ? or enough of those grips (3 ?) just to get it out ?

Oh yeah -- ultrasonic cleaners -- yes/no ?

THANK YOU !

You can probably do it yourself, except when you can't. Put the wrong pressure on and, oops, a chip, hopefully small, but maybe not.

If you are going to destroy the mounting, it might be better to saw off the tops of the prongs with a small hand saw.

However, with the amount of money that you are talking here, why not have a professional do it? He will know what he is doing and has a special tool created for prying back the tip of the prong without putting pressure on the diamond.

Just my thoughts.

Wink

 

[mwq3434]

You're probably right -- well thanks everybody.

May have more questions later but I've had an education. Great forum.