Game of Stones

[amc80]

Just watched the first episode. It seems a little less made up than Gem Hunt (or is it Gem Hunters, I can never remember). Sunset rubies are sure pretty. Can someone tell me more about them? Are they really as rare and expensive as the show made them out to be?

 

[FrekeChild]

What the heck is a "sunset ruby"?

...coming from someone who has spent the last 6 years in Colored Stones, that's not a good sign.

Also, in Gem Hunt, they talked about "Double Blue Aquamarine". Lets just say I snorted. A lot.

 

[amc80]

What the heck is a "sunset ruby"? ...coming from someone who has spent the last 6 years in Colored Stones, that's not a good sign. Also, in Gem Hunt, they talked about "Double Blue Aquamarine". Lets just say I snorted. A lot.

Well, according to the show they are rubies from Cambodia that are red with a goldish tint to them. I don't know anything about colored stones which is why I was asking here! I googled but didn't find any info, other than info from the show's site and maybe one other website.

 

[ChristineRose]

"Sunset" sapphires are Beryllium treated. Sapphires are of course blue rubies, except when they are white, yellow, green, or pink rubies.

Are they trying to say these things come out of the ground sunset colored?

ETA:

http://www.jtv.com/sunset-ruby-3.32ct-9.55x6.43mm-cushion/1466167.html

Yep, it means Be diffused.

 

[amc80]

"Sunset" sapphires are Beryllium treated. Sapphires are of course blue rubies, except when they are white, yellow, green, or pink rubies. Are they trying to say these things come out of the ground sunset colored? ETA: http://www.jtv.com/sunset-ruby-3.32ct-9.55x6.43mm-cushion/1466167.html Yep, it means Be diffused.

Yes, they became the sunset color after heating them. The show made a big deal about the heating process and how it's an art form and doing it wrong can ruin the stone.

 

[ChristineRose]

Okay, got it.

Be diffusion is often referred to as heating but it's actually heating the stones so much that the outer surface melts, mixes with the beryllium, and re-crystallizes. They are not that color all the way through and cannot be repolished or recut. Calling them "rare" and "valuable" is pretty suspect. Nobody uses Be diffusion on a valuable stone, and all you need to make more are raw stones of whatever color they start at.

I watched a clip though, and it's confusing. They sure don't mention the beryllium.

Hopefully one of the real colored stone experts will weigh in

 

[FrekeChild]

I DVRed it. So far, I'm unimpressed. Lol.

Their high iron content makes them look cloudy and worthless to the untrained eye. But Don knows a trade secret. Rubies transform at extreme temperatures. If you can find the rubies and successfully heat them he'll turn rough rocks into precious gems.

Key word there is "extreme".

Yeah. They don't mention that they are basically melting the stones and adding Beryllium. The color is basically completely fake. If you look at their website (http://www.gemguys.com/) all of those rubies are bright red, crystal clear and look too good to be true. They are. They aren't natural, or just heated, their chemical composition has been completely altered in the BE heating process.

From least invasive to most invasive (also going down in price):
Natural: Most expensive, very very rare
Heated: Second most expensive, less rare
BE diffused: cheap cheap cheap
Lead glass filled: cheap cheap cheap
Synthetic: cheap cheap cheap

Unless you get someone who is not educated, they don't ask for lab certifications, and they don't do their research, then dishonest people can take advantage of their naivete.

Their store goes live on March 5. I'm interested to see what they price these things at, and if they list their treatments.

Under gemstone enhancements on their website:

Unfortunately, gemstones don’t come out of the ground ready to be set in jewelry. Raw crystals from the earth are usually called ‘rough gemstones’ (or just ‘rough’) and this is actually very apt - rough gems can look pretty rough!

To make sure each gemstone reaches its full potential, gem professionals employ a variety of techniques. Some of these, like cutting, are immediately visible, while others, such as heating, remain relatively unknown despite being used for thousands of years. Practiced in India for over 4,000 years, the earliest known gemstone enhancement is heating a gem to improve its color. Oiling to improve a gem’s clarity is another ancient technique that has been used for over 2,000 years. Collectively called enhancements or treatments, they are any process other than cutting that improves a gem’s beauty, durability, availability or value. Not all gemstone enhancements can trace their origins to antiquity; some enhancement sare the result of more recent innovations.Regardless, all enhancements simply accentuate the beautiful end results of gemstones’ natural formation.

With over 90 percent of gems enhanced, understanding what has been done to a gemstone to prepare it for sale is important and this information should always be disclosed. Gemstone enhancements can make gemstones more beautiful, affordable and even more durable. Given the prevalence of enhancements, one important term is ‘natural’. A ‘natural’ gemstone is one that has not been enhanced or treated in any way.

Yikes. While all of that is accurate, you'll notice that they very handily skate over specific types of enhancements and what it does to the gem and affects the price. Unfortunately we see it all of the time in CS when someone thinks that they have something incredible, and it ends up being synthetic corundum instead of Alexandrite, or a lead glass filled ruby instead of a natural stone.

Their website isn't exactly well done, and bugs aren't fixed yet. I managed to get into the sales stuff by poking around in the "education" section and found a 4 stone Ceylon sapphire ring that's 3ctw set in 10kt for $1,003.00. No mention of treatment.

http://www.gemguys.com/jewelry-102/ceylon-sapphire-gold-ring-163498.html

Lolzers.

Only the experienced eye can see the true potential. If Don can successfully heat treat the rubies, their color and clarity can transform, and their value can quadruple.

Yeah....I'd agree with that. The rough looks like white-burgundy poorly colored pebbles, so, it's worth next to nothing as is, if they heat the heck out of it, it'll be worth 4x next to nothing.

All of this is why most people in CS steer clear of taking risks with rubies. The possibility of being taken is just too high.

 

[FrekeChild]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Of course.

They don't allow the crew or his team members in the room while he's "cooking" the stones. At excess of 2000 degrees. Because he's so protective over his formula.

Corundum melts at 2044°C.

Conditions:
Temperature: The elevated temperature ranges from 1600°C to about 1850°C (almost near melting point of corundum).
At temperatures below 1600°C, the process becomes uneconomically slow and at high temperatures the surface may be damaged.
Time: Heating time can vary from 2 hours to 200 hours.

http://www.gemstonebuzz.com/diffusion

My favorite part of the entire show is how at the end, he's showing them the crappy rough and talking about how he tried, but they just wouldn't take, and then he pulls a huge quantity of these faceted BE rubies that are all sparkly and crystal clear. Yes, because he heated all of those stones and cut all of them himself.

Ah, movie magic...

 

[ChristineRose]

Man, I hope it's not true but all indications are that these are just another flavor of Be-diffused corundum. Add in some glass filling and yikes. You can see that the prices for stones of this type are not particularly high.

Gemselct

Multicolor

These range from under $50/carat to $1,400/carat.

There's some unheated orangy red sapphires on The Natural Sapphire Company. They range from $2,000 to $30,000/carat.

Is it possible the Discovery Channel was bamboozled by this guy's scheme to overprice his cheap stones? If so there is going to be some scandal.

 

[FrekeChild]

Good question Christine. I hope they did some due diligence, but who knows? I'll keep watching, and probably have a good laugh each episode.

These are quite pretty. But real, untreated, eyeclean rubies that look the same and are the same size? Would cost a FORTUNE.
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?1975439866
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?1196239099
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?-720085677

 

[amc80]

Please keep posting your thoughts on the show! I know nothing about colored stones so I love hearing what people in the know have to say.

 

[chrono]

This is very scary; they are making BE diffused and lead glass filled rubies sound like something super special, rare and expensive when in reality, they are not worth much at all.

 

[amc80]

This is very scary; they are making BE diffused and lead glass filled rubies sound like something super special, rare and expensive when in reality, they are not worth much at all.

So, it's basically the same as Gem Hunt?

 

[FrekeChild]

I have only seen one episode of Gem Hunt, and much to my chagrin, my cable provider doesn't have it OnDemand or reruns anywhere. I saw the "Double Blue Aquamarine" episode and just kept rolling my eyes at the tv.

I would like to hear what some of our precision lapidaries have to say about the shows, as some of them have gone to Africa, etc to buy the gems straight from the miners instead of through rough dealers/middle men. I'm guessing that these shows are showing an experience that isn't quite...normal.

 

[Firman]

This is your answer

Available now on Ebay
Even if not stated sunset or orangish red, trust me it's orangish red. You can use normal LED light it will be sunset orange. If you buy it.
I have one. But most of them (all) is melted. Actually it's failed product if i'm not mistaken. Just like the paper right now.