GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal murder

[Kay]

As if having a miscarriage is not traumatic enough:

Georgia lawmaker proposes classifying miscarriages as ‘prenatal murder’
By Brett Michael Dykes

Earlier this year, a furor broke out in Congress over pending House legislation that critics contended would cut off federal funding for abortion in cases involving rape and incest. But that controversy may well pale beside a new proposal before the Georgia House.

Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican from Marietta, Georgia, has introduced a bill that would criminalize miscarriages, making abortion and miscarriage -- or "prenatal murder" in the language of the bill -- potentially punishable by death.

Reports Mother Jones' Jen Phillips:

Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage. There is no clarification of what "human involvement" means, and this is hugely problematic as medical doctors do not know exactly what causes miscarriages. Miscarriages are estimated to terminate up to a quarter of all pregnancies and the Mayo Clinic says that "the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn't developing normally."

Phillips notes that last year Franklin -- a graduate of Covenant College who's served in the Georgia House since 1997 -- proposed a law that would reclassify victims of domestic violence as "accusers." His bio on the Georgia House website describes Franklin "an active member of the Reformed Presbyterian Church" but omits any mention of his marital status. And we were curious to learn whether the author of legislation that extends the state's reach very far into the private lives of women was himself married -- so we called his office to inquire, and staffer Leigh Goff told us she's "not sure" if he is.

Franklin's online bio also states that he "has been called 'the conscience of the Republican Caucus' because he believes that civil government should return to its biblically and constitutionally defined role." The present legislation would hold women women legally responsible for the health and well-being of a fetus from "the moment of conception"-- weeks before modern pregnancy testing can accurately determine whether or not a woman is pregnant. So it seems to follow that Franklin believes government's "biblically and constitutionally defined role" is to hold women criminally liable for nature taking its course in the early days of a pregnancy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110225/ts_yblog_thelookout/georgia-lawmaker-proposes-classifying-miscarriages-as-prenatal-murder;_ylt=Apqa5w8N2ysG2VfJpXpUCo6s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTVuajh0ZnVjBGFzc2V0A3libG9nX3RoZWxvb2tvdXQvMjAxMTAyMjUvZ2VvcmdpYS1sYXdtYWtlci1wcm9wb3Nlcy1jbGFzc2lmeWluZy1taXNjYXJyaWFnZXMtYXMtcHJlbmF0YWwtbXVyZGVyBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA2dlb3JnaWFsYXdtYQ--

 

[E B]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

He is an evil, misogynistic lunatic. And to think...he was voted into office. As this would never pass, I find that even scarier.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

 

[kama_s]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I truly have no words...

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur



This guy needs to learn some basic embryology and genetics. He is really suggesting that spontaneous miscarriages, which are not very common and not preventable be criminalized?

So he wants to put at least 25% of females of childbearing age in jail????

 

[Blenheim]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

No, he doesn't want to put 25% or more of women of child-bearing age in jail, just those who can't prove their innocence! Guilty until proven innocent and all that, makes perfect sense. Oh wait.

When listening to and reading pro-life rhetoric, there are times when I wonder if certain people actually value human life or just hate women. (This is not at all commentary on the pro-life people on here, so please do not read it as such - I know which side you guys are on!) At least this guy makes it clear....

 

[AGBF]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

"Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage."


Well, since women are human (at least now...maybe the law on that will change if this guy gets his way)...there is always going to be some "human involvement" in a, "miscarriage". Think about it.


Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

No, he doesn't want to put 25% or more of women of child-bearing age in jail, just those who can't prove their innocence! Guilty until proven innocent and all that, makes perfect sense. Oh wait.

When listening to and reading pro-life rhetoric, there are times when I wonder if certain people actually value human life or just hate women. (This is not at all commentary on the pro-life people on here, so please do not read it as such - I know which side you guys are on!) At least this guy makes it clear....

Oh that does makes perfect since....

Not really of course.

Many women who loose a baby are already analyzing everything the did and wondering if they could have done anything different. This guy not only wants to rub salt into the wound, but make them guilty until proven innocent???

A representative who clearly needs to read (or re-read) the constitution that allowed him to become an elected official.

 

[Blenheim]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Not that this would actually go through, but if it did then the natural consequence would be that an incredibly large percentage of women "wouldn't realize" that they were pregnant until the second trimester, not contact a doctor for prenatal care (eta: until they're out of the miscarriage danger zone), not seek medical assistance in the event of a threatened miscarriage, etc. Because THAT would be great for both women and unborn babies.

I am seriously disgusted. Don't even get me started on the actual biology behind early pregnancy.


ETA - Deb, great point. Not to mention that about half or so of pregnancy losses are a result of chromosomal abnormalities, which would seem to be the baby's fault. Since human life begins at conception, I say that we also start charging the miscarried babies as being accessories to murder.

 

[AGBF]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

ETA - Deb, great point. Not to mention that about half or so of pregnancy losses are a result of chromosomal abnormalities, which would seem to be the baby's fault. Since human life begins at conception, I say that we also start charging the miscarried babies as being accessories to murder.

I think this law would require that the "miscarried babies" be charged with murder, not merely with being accessories to it, Blenheim, if they were held responsible for their chromosomal abnormalities and those led to miscarriage. Read the proposed law.

Deb

 

[Miss Sparkly]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

That's the biggest load of BS I have ever heard in my life! He really thinks that a woman chooses to miscarry a baby?!

 

[Tuckins1]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

This will certainly never pass, and people in Georgia really need to start making better decisions when they vote! His track record with previously proposed laws and statements is reprehensible... It really leans toward the "original sin" idea that women are the cause of all sin in the world. Scary that he is in a position of power.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

So if we follow his reasoning to its logical (if we can call it that) end, then if the woman is cleared of involvement, we'll just have to charge his god with prenatal murder. This man is clearly too dumb to be in office. I hope his constituents find him embarrassing and replace him the next chance they get!

 

[movie zombie]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

this law would make a woman guilty until proven innocent. it reverses the rule of law. ok, i'm out on a limb here but i think this is all out war against women. we are not to have any say in our reproductive lives and legally bound to be explaining ourselves and our lives to men.

MoZo

ps i had a miscarriage many years ago. the dr that performed the dnc was a very religious christian man who was also an excellent dr. i was hospitalized for several days prior to doing the procedure. the last thing i needed to do or he needed to do was to explain to non-medical people why the procedure was being done. as he said, it was an act of nature....and he was reluctant to do a dnc until it was obvious that i was not going to carry this fetus to term. emotionally, i did not need to go before anyone else and justify what was done.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Never in my life....

Can I just point out that as if the miscarriage/felony thing wasn't bad enough, he wants to do away with the "victim" status of domestic abuse and change it to "accuser"...

I swear, some men just must hate women so much they must lay awake at night plotting how to cause more hurt and degradation to them. I mean, clearly this "man" has serious issues with the female population if he would seek out those in their weakest moments and further fillet them. What possible good could any of these amendments do?

A miscarriage is a tragic loss, not a felony. Could you even conceive for a moment how a women would feel if in that period time, in addition to sorting out her personal pain, she had to deal with the police, lawyers and possible imprisonment? Oh for f***s sake. It's just to stupid to even rationally talk about.

 

[swimmer]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Never in my life....

Can I just point out that as if the miscarriage/felony thing wasn't bad enough, he wants to do away with the "victim" status of domestic abuse and change it to "accuser"...

I swear, some men just must hate women so much they must lay awake at night plotting how to cause more hurt and degradation to them. I mean, clearly this "man" has serious issues with the female population if he would seek out those in their weakest moments and further fillet them. What possible good could any of these amendments do?

A miscarriage is a tragic loss, not a felony. Could you even conceive for a moment how a women would feel if in that period time, in addition to sorting out her personal pain, she had to deal with the police, lawyers and possible imprisonment? Oh for f***s sake. It's just to stupid to even rationally talk about.

Ditto! Additionally the questioning and self-doubt that a miscarriage causes internally, was it that coffee the other morning? Did I work out too hard? Does my body just not work? I was there and even though I KNEW that it was just nature taking its course, those FEELINGS wouldn't go away. The line about miscarriage being punishable by death just seems so Handmaiden's Tale.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Agreed that this bill won't pass. Hate to say this, but if it does, they will be building a lot of additional jails in Georgia

 

[Pandora II]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

How do these people actually get elected? Why would someone vote for an evil bigot like this man?

Surely there are laws to prevent this kind of behaviour or force him to stand down?

Bizarre!

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Punishable by death. followed by

It's moments like this when I severely question our country. If someone is power, no matter how insignificant that power may be in the grand scheme of things, suggests killing a woman because she has a miscarriage that individual should be immediately removed from whatever position he/she holds. No questions asked. No trials or mediation or public policy or procedure, just swift and merciless justice.

The only miscarriage this man needs to be worried about is the miscarriage of power. He is so skewed and so clearly uneducated on the tragedy of miscarriage. While I highly doubt that such a law would ever pass, the fact that the thought has passed through this man's head is reason enough to terminate his position immediately. I wouldn't doubt for a minute he'd relish women returning to the kitchen barefoot and happily pregnant, minus the right to vote, drive and wear pants.

What a fool.

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I have to wonder about the original mindset. Perhaps he is hoping that women who continue to drink heavily or do drugs when they become pregnant, thus CAUSING their miscarriage would be punished? Either way I hope it wouldn't pass, and I do think that he has made things far far too broad and is completely insensitive.

 

[Tuckins1]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Punishable by death. followed by

It's moments like this when I severely question our country. If someone is power, no matter how insignificant that power may be in the grand scheme of things, suggests killing a woman because she has a miscarriage that individual should be immediately removed from whatever position he/she holds. No questions asked. No trials or mediation or public policy or procedure, just swift and merciless justice.

The only miscarriage this man needs to be worried about is the miscarriage of power. He is so skewed and so clearly uneducated on the tragedy of miscarriage. While I highly doubt that such a law would ever pass, the fact that the thought has passed through this man's head is reason enough to terminate his position immediately. I wouldn't doubt for a minute he'd relish women returning to the kitchen barefoot and happily pregnant, minus the right to vote, drive and wear pants.

What a fool.

Big huge DITTO!!!!!

 

[anchor31]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

That's right, let's just imprison and execute 25% of our female population! That'll make the world such a better place.

I find the fact that such a hateful person has been elected in a position of power absolutely horrifying. I wonder what his electors think of this...

 

[Kay]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I can't imagine a bill this crazy ever passing. What really shocks me is that this misogynistic lunatic has apparently been in office since 1996, and this is not the first time he has introduced crazy legislation. He thinks victims of rape and domestic violence should be called “accusers” instead of “victims.” He wants to do away with public schools because they are “out of control” and children should be taught at home or in private schools (which are fine choices, but should not be the only choices). He clearly would prefer a world where women stay home, have babies, tend house and home school their children and have no choices to do anything else. I really wonder about his constituents.

 

[Blenheim]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I have to wonder about the original mindset. Perhaps he is hoping that women who continue to drink heavily or do drugs when they become pregnant, thus CAUSING their miscarriage would be punished? Either way I hope it wouldn't pass, and I do think that he has made things far far too broad and is completely insensitive.

Well, I think we can all safely assume that he does not approve of elective abortion. One of the issues with outlawing abortion is that not all women want a baby (or a given baby, or at a given time), and that some will want to terminate a pregnancy enough that they will find a way - even if they cannot legally get an abortion. Some will get an abortion from an unlicensed, off-the-books provider who may not be using safe techniques. Some may try old herbal methods, or drugs that are known to end pregnancies, or attempt to remove the "baby" with a coat-hanger, or subject themselves to physical abdominal trauma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-induced_abortion). This is one reason why it is good that abortion is legal: even if you disagree with their choice, it gives these women safe ways of taking care of it and prevents big medical complications and maternal deaths, as well as protecting "babies" from failed abortion attempts and subsequent damage.

It sounds like he wants to take away all loopholes and force those evil sluts who got pregnant at a bad time to be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen where they belong , and just doesn't GET how pregnancy actually works. Or perhaps he does, and perhaps he even knows how horribly he is coming across, and he just doesn't care, because he wants to make headlines and get people talking and make his point. I honestly can't tell. The latter would not surprise me, given what others are finding about his history.

Fortunately there is no way that this can pass.

(I've been putting babies in quotes because I really do feel that the use of that term in this case is an emotional plea and inaccurate, but "fertilized egg/blastocyst/embryo/fetus" is rather unwieldy. If there is a better term that I am missing, please let me know!)

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I have to wonder about the original mindset. Perhaps he is hoping that women who continue to drink heavily or do drugs when they become pregnant, thus CAUSING their miscarriage would be punished? Either way I hope it wouldn't pass, and I do think that he has made things far far too broad and is completely insensitive.

I wondered just that, too. And for the life of me I can't get demented enough to figure it out. I'm willing to bet it has something to do with hating his mother, his wife, or maybe just the lady who serves him coffee. Heck, maybe it goes back to when the Prom Queen didn't want to date the Class Treasurer. It could be deep and dark, or simple and stupid. But whatever the root, I'd be willing to bet he's a sick man. Seriously. It wouldn't shock me an ounce to learn later that he beat on his wife, molested his kids or something of the similar. His agenda is so skewed and sickly, whatever is lying beneath is undoubtably as disturbing.

I guess some politicians need create major waves to be taken seriously because they can't be taken seriously otherwise. But what a platform to take. Can you imagine him at the podium all smiles and waves and finger guns, announcing his goal for the term was execute women who have miscarriages. OMG. And just imagine the quality of people who would go along with that. Then think, we live in this world with those people.

If this bill passes, I will be leaving the US.

 

[AGBF]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Surely there are laws to prevent this kind of behaviour or force him to stand down?

I don't believe there are any such laws. I think that voters usually have recourse to recall if they feel strongly that they wish to remove someone from office. (I also think that the ability to recall an elected oficial varies from place to place.) The only other way to remove him from office-besides recall-would be to convict him of a crime which requires him to be incarcerated and thus be unable to carry out his duties. If anyone else thinks of a way to remove him, please chime in! (And I don't mean extra-legal means such as homicide, tempting as they sound to all of us women.)

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[megumic]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

This guy is both a lunatic and a moron. First, I cannot even begin to comprehend the substance of this bill. It is atrocious and insulting to all women. Further, I was just reading the text of the bill and he claims the United States Supreme Court had no jurisdiction to hear Roe v. Wade and make precedential law. What an idiot.

Source: http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display.aspx?Legislation=31965

63 (12) The United States Supreme Court had no jurisdiction to hear or decide the case of
64 Roe v. Wade or any other case pertaining to a state's punishment of the crime of prenatal
65 murder;
66 (13) As it had no jurisdiction to hear the case, certainly the United States Supreme Court
67 lacked the authority to pass, or order all states to strike or refuse to enforce, a law that is
68 outside of its subject matter or federal jurisdiction;
69 (14) Even if the United States Supreme Court had jurisdiction, its authority is limited to
70 the case or controversy before it, and its opinion extends no further than between the
71 parties to the case or controversy;

 

[Pandora II]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I have to wonder about the original mindset. Perhaps he is hoping that women who continue to drink heavily or do drugs when they become pregnant, thus CAUSING their miscarriage would be punished? Either way I hope it wouldn't pass, and I do think that he has made things far far too broad and is completely insensitive.

The problem here is that it isn't even that simple. Plenty of heroin addicts and alcoholics have babies - many of whom are perfectly healthy, and many women who have avoided every risk factor under the sun obsessively have had miscarriages. Plus how do you show that a heroin addict miscarried because she was an addict or because the embryo had chromosomal abnormalities?

For example - my sister discovered she was pregnant at 7 months, she has severe mental health issues and takes lithium and a load of other meds and not knowing she was pregnant she had been drinking like a fish and smoking (not 100% certain what). Her son was born full-term at 9lbs 8oz and is totally healthy in every way.

I take very large quantities of opiates for my spine and had to keep taking them while I was pregnant. My daughter was born 2 days early, weighed 8lbs 3oz and had Apgar scores of 10 and 10. She did have to go through withdrawal and we spent a week in hospital. She's a very bright kid, hits all her milestones well ahead of the curve and rarely has so much as a cold.

I'm sure both of us would have been deemed prosecutable had we miscarried...

 

[dragonfly411]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

I have to wonder about the original mindset. Perhaps he is hoping that women who continue to drink heavily or do drugs when they become pregnant, thus CAUSING their miscarriage would be punished? Either way I hope it wouldn't pass, and I do think that he has made things far far too broad and is completely insensitive.

I wondered just that, too. And for the life of me I can't get demented enough to figure it out. I'm willing to bet it has something to do with hating his mother, his wife, or maybe just the lady who serves him coffee. Heck, maybe it goes back to when the Prom Queen didn't want to date the Class Treasurer. It could be deep and dark, or simple and stupid. But whatever the root, I'd be willing to bet he's a sick man. Seriously. It wouldn't shock me an ounce to learn later that he beat on his wife, molested his kids or something of the similar. His agenda is so skewed and sickly, whatever is lying beneath is undoubtably as disturbing.

I guess some politicians need create major waves to be taken seriously because they can't be taken seriously otherwise. But what a platform to take. Can you imagine him at the podium all smiles and waves and finger guns, announcing his goal for the term was execute women who have miscarriages. OMG. And just imagine the quality of people who would go along with that. Then think, we live in this world with those people.

If this bill passes, I will be leaving the US.

That first part made me LOL!

I'm totally with you ladies, just trying to consider where it might have stemmed from. Unfortunately the best I can come up with is that there are still sexist bigots in this world, just as there are racists and other discriminations. I also wondered if he might be an extreme in religion but we won't delve that topic.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone could force him to step down as we do practice freedom of speech in this country. Until that is eradicated (which I hope it never is) we'll have people like him regurgitating stupidity.

 

[yennyfire]

Re: GA rep proposes classifying miscarriages as prenatal mur

Wow! I LIVE in Marietta, GA and I'm horrifed by this! I am so embarrased that this guy supposedly represents me....

I have lived through 2 miscarriages (one before each living child)...it isn't something I would wish on my worst enemy. I can't even fathom having to justify my behavior (i.e. did I rest enough, should I not have had that one sip of coffee) to anyone while I was suffering physically and emotionally. I cried for weeks after my first mc and it's still something I think about today, 7 years later. I wonder who that child would have been and what our lives would be like had I not gone through that experience. To call it murder is insane...only a man could ever consider something like this....definitely going to make sure I get out and vote in the next elections!