G-Cut VS11 Questions

[classc1]

Hi,

I WISH I had found this forum even a week ago!!! URGH!! In any event, my sweetheart and I purchased our diamond last week from a jewel dealer that came highly recommended. He only had a copy of the GIA certificate on the day we purchased the diamond and it has been agreed to that he will turn over theoriginal when we pick up our setting this week from him. A couple of questions.

1) Did we get a good buy? The cost was $6,200 cash TOTAL for the diamond and 18K white gold setting with baugettes on the side. Classic Tiffany setting.

Round Brilliant,G Color, VS2, Very Good Cut, Very Good Polish, Excellent Symmetry and No Flouresence. Table 56%, depth 61.8%. There is commentary that "additonal clouds not shown" and surface graining is not shown.

2) WHAT do I do if he does not produce the original GIA certificate. I had him write on the receipt that the original must be turned over at the time the ring is set.

3) Stupidly..I have NO idea what the refund policy is...is there any standard policy? Thanks.

 

[haagen_dazs]

i know someone is going to ask this so ...
what is the certificate number?
people here will help you by giving their opinions based on the diamond physical characteristics

 

[stone-cold11]

ya, what is the report number and carat weight of the stone?

How did you pay for the ring?

haagen_dazs, you need to get out of the mind set that a grading report is a cert. It has different connotation.

 

[classc1]

Sorry...the certificate number is 2105766740...and it is 1.14 carats. Also...yes...we already paid cash for it....any help is appreciated.

 

[jet2ks]

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2105766740&weight=1.14

I hate to tell you classc1, but the cut of that diamond is not that good--overly steep pavillion and shallow crown. Now the question is what are you going to do. There is no "standard" return policy, every vendor sets their own, all you can do is ask the vendor. The price would be fair IF the diamond is well cut, but this one is not, and I don't consider any price a good deal if the diamond will not sparkle and shine as a well cut stone should.

Just to be fair, it could be remotely possible that the diamond looks better in person than it does on paper, but the odds are against it. If there is a Jared's in the area, go check out their Peerless diamonds for comparison of what a really well cut stone looks and performs like. A Hearts on Fire dealer would be another place to compare. (I wouldn't purchase either, as they are overpriced compared to a similar stone from one of the PS vendors, but will give you a basis for comparison)

 

[classc1]

"I hate to tell you classc1, but the cut of that diamond is not that good--overly steep pavillion and shallow crown. Now the question is what are you going to do. There is no "standard" return policy, every vendor sets their own, all you can do is ask the vendor. The price would be fair IF the diamond is well cut, but this one is not, and I don''t consider any price a good deal if the diamond will not sparkle and shine as a well cut stone should."

Are you kidding me? I am pissed off. We went with friends who do business with this dealer and they looked at the diamond and liked it. It does sparkle...but what do I know. Why does the GIA report say that the cut is very good? I don''t know what to do. What if he will not give us our money back?

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 9/16/2009 11:00:46 PM
Author: classc1

Are you kidding me? I am pissed off. We went with friends who do business with this dealer and they looked at the diamond and liked it. It does sparkle...but what do I know. Why does the GIA report say that the cut is very good? I don't know what to do. What if he will not give us our money back?

Step one. Take a deep breath and calm down (I know, easier said than done) You will not be able to think clearly or negotiate with the vendor if you are mad.

Next question. You say the diamond does sparkle, but in what lighting did you look at it? If just in the jewelry store display lighting, that is designed specifically to make any diamond look good, even those not well cut. Looking at a diamond in daylight, office lighting and low light will give you a much better idea of its day to day performance. A really well cut diamond performs well in any lighting environment. Also, if you haven't looked at a lot of well cut stones, what are you using for comparison of how well it performs? A diamond can look better than the one next to it, but that doesn't mean it is well cut--it might just be that the other is even worse cut.

GIA grades the cut as very good based on the crown and pavillion angles, plus other factors, but it is the angles which is causing the grade to be VG instead of Excellent.

Talk to the jeweler. If they will return your money, that would be best. Go in with that mind set. If there is no way they will give money back, see if they will bring in a similar diamond with better cut and trade you out. Be prepared to hear how great the diamond is and why you should keep it--they do not want to lose the sale. I would just warn you to really think about your response when they do this. Sometimes telling them that you read on the internet that the diamond is not well cut is not the right tactic--sometimes it might be. Personally, I would be more inclined to just say that you really want an Excellent cut for a purchase of this magnitude, not settle for Very Good. That is me, you have to approach this in your own way. Just stay calm and rational and the vendor is much more likely to work with you.

Best of luck.

 

[classc1]

Date: 9/16/2009 11:17:06 PM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 9/16/2009 11:00:46 PM
Author: classc1

Are you kidding me? I am pissed off. We went with friends who do business with this dealer and they looked at the diamond and liked it. It does sparkle...but what do I know. Why does the GIA report say that the cut is very good? I don''t know what to do. What if he will not give us our money back?

Step one. Take a deep breath and calm down (I know, easier said than done) You will not be able to think clearly or negotiate with the vendor if you are mad.

Next question. You say the diamond does sparkle, but in what lighting did you look at it? If just in the jewelry store display lighting, that is designed specifically to make any diamond look good, even those not well cut. Looking at a diamond in daylight, office lighting and low light will give you a much better idea of its day to day performance. A really well cut diamond performs well in any lighting environment. Also, if you haven''t looked at a lot of well cut stones, what are you using for comparison of how well it performs? A diamond can look better than the one next to it, but that doesn''t mean it is well cut--it might just be that the other is even worse cut.

GIA grades the cut as very good based on the crown and pavillion angles, plus other factors, but it is the angles which is causing the grade to be VG instead of Excellent.

Talk to the jeweler. If they will return your money, that would be best. Go in with that mind set. If there is no way they will give money back, see if they will bring in a similar diamond with better cut and trade you out. Be prepared to hear how great the diamond is and why you should keep it--they do not want to lose the sale. I would just warn you to really think about your response when they do this. Sometimes telling them that you read on the internet that the diamond is not well cut is not the right tactic--sometimes it might be. Personally, I would be more inclined to just say that you really want an Excellent cut for a purchase of this magnitude, not settle for Very Good. That is me, you have to approach this in your own way. Just stay calm and rational and the vendor is much more likely to work with you.

Best of luck.

First of all..thank you so very much for taking the time to help me. I am just now coming in from off of the ledge!!! Well, I have not looked at a LOT of well cut stones, but as luck would have it, the very first place that our friends took us too where they had a connection had just about the most perfect 1 carat diamond...at least for me...H cut, VS1 and Excellent cut, symmetry and polish. The diamond had one very small feather and that was it. Truth be told, I knew in my heart that I should have gone back and taken that ring. It was a few hundred more for a lower color grade and less carat weight, but it was gorgeous.

The store where I purchased my diamond from actually did not have as good lighting as the other. I have also had the diamond in my possession since Saturday and have looked at it under various lighting conditions here in the house. It looks pretty good to me, but again...I am no expert.

I feel really bad...my fiance is going to feel really bad when I tell him this. We wanted to get officially engaged last weekend but had to wait for the setting. Now that the setting might actually be done...now this. We wanted to do it this weekend. Also, our friends were sooo helpful. I might just ask our friend to intervene since they have a business relationship with the dealer.

One more question if you know...what recourse do I have if he does not provide the origonal GIA certificate as agreed to and written on the receipt? Thanks again.

 

[jet2ks]

This is one of those times where I wish I would have kept my mouth (and typing fingers) shut and still. You asked a question and I just tried to give an honest answer.

Please note, I am not saying that this is not a pretty diamond, it very well could be, but since you are the one looking only you can determine that. What I am saying is that it is not a true ideal cut, which is reflected in the price you paid--as you saw, the smaller H was more expensive because it is a better cut. What does this mean to the overall performance of the diamond? Without seeing the stone, I can''t really comment--maybe you should take it to an independent appraiser. It could be that there would only marginal increase in performance by going to an excellent cut, so is not worth the hassle or expense. You state that you have been looking at it all weekend, while I made the incorrect assumption that the diamond was with the vendor doing the setting and you had only seen it during the purchasing process.

What it really boils down to is whether you are happy with the diamond, and I am afraid that my comments may have ruined that possibility--very sorry

. There is more to an engagement purchase than just the stone--did you and your fiance pick it out together, what are the feelings associated with that and what is that worth? Similarly, is getting your friend involved the best recourse, or could it damage your friendship by putting them in the middle? They did help you pick this stone, after all.

I wouldn''t worry about the grading report. It is pretty common for the wholesaler who actually owned the stone to keep the report until the diamond is sold and then they send it to the retailer. You don''t want to cause a problem where none exists (I should learn to take my own advice). The dilemma is that it seems you were happy with the purchase before finding PS and getting comments about the diamond, now you are not happy. Maybe I just misread the original post but asking about a good deal and returning the diamond made me think you were already seriously questioning the purchase.

Since the diamond is not yet set, really look at it. Do YOU find it beautiful and want to wear it, regardless of what some faceless guy on an internet forum says? If so, try to forget that I ever commented. If you really cannot live with it, then I still think your best recourse may be to try and find a GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal from the same vendor that would be mind-clean and not cause you to question it.

 

[classc1]

Date: 9/17/2009 12:12:06 AM
Author: jet2ks
This is one of those times where I wish I would have kept my mouth (and typing fingers) shut and still. You asked a question and I just tried to give an honest answer.

Please note, I am not saying that this is not a pretty diamond, it very well could be, but since you are the one looking only you can determine that. What I am saying is that it is not a true ideal cut, which is reflected in the price you paid--as you saw, the smaller H was more expensive because it is a better cut. What does this mean to the overall performance of the diamond? Without seeing the stone, I can''t really comment--maybe you should take it to an independent appraiser. It could be that there would only marginal increase in performance by going to an excellent cut, so is not worth the hassle or expense. You state that you have been looking at it all weekend, while I made the incorrect assumption that the diamond was with the vendor doing the setting and you had only seen it during the purchasing process.

What it really boils down to is whether you are happy with the diamond, and I am afraid that my comments may have ruined that possibility--very sorry

. There is more to an engagement purchase than just the stone--did you and your fiance pick it out together, what are the feelings associated with that and what is that worth? Similarly, is getting your friend involved the best recourse, or could it damage your friendship by putting them in the middle? They did help you pick this stone, after all.

I wouldn''t worry about the grading report. It is pretty common for the wholesaler who actually owned the stone to keep the report until the diamond is sold and then they send it to the retailer. You don''t want to cause a problem where none exists (I should learn to take my own advice). The dilemma is that it seems you were happy with the purchase before finding PS and getting comments about the diamond, now you are not happy. Maybe I just misread the original post but asking about a good deal and returning the diamond made me think you were already seriously questioning the purchase.

Since the diamond is not yet set, really look at it. Do YOU find it beautiful and want to wear it, regardless of what some faceless guy on an internet forum says? If so, try to forget that I ever commented. If you really cannot live with it, then I still think your best recourse may be to try and find a GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal from the same vendor that would be mind-clean and not cause you to question it.

Please do not feel bad...please. First of all...as you can probably tell, I felt a twinge of doubt as I continued to think about that first ring. My soon to be fiance was going to kill me....I woke him up at 6am the morning after we picked out the diamond questioning the decision!!! Three hours later after looking at my diamond in the sunlight...I was happy again

Poor guy...as a result, I have had to keep most of what I feel to myself lest he think I''m totally nuts.

Does the fact that I already have an appraisal set for early next week tell you anything? No...you are not to blame..you were MOST helpful and I thank you.

My uneasiness had less to do with the diamond than the dealer. The first dealer we visited was LOVELY. We loved her presentation and demeanor. The guy whom we purchased from was...how can I say this...not so nice and not nearly as organized. He came off as a used car salesman. So much so that even though he a great selection of well priced diamonds, we almost would have rather spent more money with the other dealer. Taught me a very valuable business lesson.

Well...I think that I am going to wait to see my setting...they had to cast one for me and allegedly I''m getting better diamonds for baugettes that the setting I liked at the other dealer. Truth be told again...although the diamond was gorgeous at the other location, the baugettes were too cloudy for the diamond. It is a classic six-prong Tiffany setting with baugettes. My guess is that when I see my ring in my setting I will be in love again!!!

I think what I am going to do is print out some articles on pavillion and crown angles and bring them with me when I go to get my ring set. If I don''t love the diamond once it''s in my setting...I will have a talk with him. I will not mention a word to my soon to be fiance...no need to upset him unless there is a reason too...also...I don''t want him to question his choice in a bride

BTW...thanks for the info on the lack of an original GIA certificate...the dealer swears I will have it when I have my ring set.

 

[FB.]

The diamond has not been cut to ideal proportions, but it should still give a decent perofrmance - just not perfect. I think that the average person will find it to be attractive and sparkly and won''t know the difference. I doubt that many people will be able to notice any performance issues.

I ran a thread a few days ago regarding various cut grades and nobody challenged my suggestion (based on my own observations) that, as a score out of 10, cut grade performance in a variety of conditions seems to be reasonably estimated as follows:

Super-Ideal: 10/10
Ideal: 9/10
Excellent: 8/10
Very Good: 7/10
Good: 6/10

Bear in mind that larger diamonds (including yours) look considerably more impressive than smaller stones of the same cut grade.

 

[classc1]

Date: 9/17/2009 4:25:40 AM
Author: FB.
The diamond has not been cut to ideal proportions, but it should still give a decent perofrmance - just not perfect. I think that the average person will find it to be attractive and sparkly and won''t know the difference. I doubt that many people will be able to notice any performance issues.

I ran a thread a few days ago regarding various cut grades and nobody challenged my suggestion (based on my own observations) that, as a score out of 10, cut grade performance in a variety of conditions seems to be reasonably estimated as follows:

Super-Ideal: 10/10
Ideal: 9/10
Excellent: 8/10
Very Good: 7/10
Good: 6/10

Bear in mind that larger diamonds (including yours) look considerably more impressive than smaller stones of the same cut grade.

Thank you for saying that....I like the diamond very much....I will see how it looks in the setting before he actually sets it.

 

[classc1]

Just an update...the diamond was placed in the setting...and I am in love again. The ring is GORGEOUS!! We became engaged Friday night. All whom have seen the ring think that it is beautiful..sparkly and white. I am still upset with the dealer...it seems he lied to me about whether a feather was in the stone when it is plainly listed as an inclusion...I thought that the listing was only a key showing the POSSIBLE inclusions. The lines are so tiny that I could not tell a feather from a needle.

Bottom line...I am done being upset about crown/pavillion angles and the fact that a feather may be on the stone...looks like a small one on the pavillion. I am going to have it appraised next week and as long as it is the same diamond with no serious issue..I am going to move on...lesson learned...

Anyway...here''s a link to a thread showing a picture of my ring...THANK YOU for your help!!

 

[classc1]

Oops..here''s the link:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged-g-vs2-1-14-round-brilliant.125659/