Home Frustrated with my brother''s college

[Shoopy]

Basically you have to have a 3.0 in your "critical tracking" courses in order to get into the business school.

He has a 2.8 with two classes left. The counselor told him to choose another career path such as criminal justice because "that''s close enough to business."

W

T

F

Ok I get it. You don''t want failures in your program. But a 2.8 is hardly failing. Heck a 2.0 isn''t failing in my book. And if we are paying for a tuition either via your own checkbook, scholarships, or grants then WTH? Who are they to pick your life for you!

So now he''s stressed out. He hardly eats and it hurts him to think of having to choose another school when he really loves this school. He''s been studying like crazy to get A''s in the next two classes to make sure he gets in and I''ve been helping him. But what the heck!!

Vent over

 

[JulieN]

really?

there''s a lot of overlap in students who pursue law and those who pursue business. besides, the economy is in the tank.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Why can''t he go with a major that aligns well with business and then go back for his MBA at a different school after?

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 9/16/2008 4:31:52 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Why can''t he go with a major that aligns well with business and then go back for his MBA at a different school after?

That may be a good option. He hasn''t mentioned grad school so I don''t know how he feels about it. I think that from my last conversation with him, he''s pretty much feeling that he should apply to another school in case he can''t get into the business program.

Thing is that once you get into the program, there are no strict requirements for you to stay in it. I''m hoping we can fight it.

 

[neatfreak]

Unfortunately the business programs at a lot of schools are like this. In fact there are a lot of programs that are like this (engineering, education, nursing even sometimes). They are just so competitive that they basically require students to show them how much they want it by getting good grades in other classes before they are let in. Couldn't he take a few summer/winter session courses before he applies to bring his GPA up high enough? 2.8 to 3 isn't far to go...

 

[Hera]

yes, I agree. A lot of times you can take more classes to get your GPA up. That might mean more "critical tracking courses" but it''ll mean he can get into his business school. It will also be less school than a graduate degree. A little tip-I would also go to Ratemyprofessors.com and see if he can find the more generous grade giving professors.

 

[Dreamer_D]

If 3.0 is the cutoff, that may not even be the actual lower limit of grades that people have who get into the program. Most grad programs are very competitive--too much demand, not enough supply. My program lists "80%" as the lowest cut off, but they have not actually admitted a student with an average lower than about 88% since I can remember. Before he kills himself trying to get a 3.0 he may want to try to find out whether that would even be enough, most schools have some record of the GPAs of students who attend their programs.

It is the unfortunate reality of higher education--whether or not your brother would be good at the eventual job he wants to do, he first has to be really really good at school. Although there is overlap in the skill sets required to perform most jobs that require graduate training and to perform well in school, the admissions criteria tend to weigh "ability to do well in school" pretty heavily. And this is a very particular skill set that is not solely, or even mostly, about intelligence IMHO. Like any other skill, mastering test-taking and all the other aspects of school is its own unique challenge.

I see this situation a lot with my own students who want to pursue graduate training. Its a tough situation to be in, and I wish him all the best. I hope he knows, though, that he can achieve all of his goals in another way if this doesn''t pan out. Sometimes students seem to put too many eggs into one grad-school basket, when in reality no one really knows what graduate school is like until you are there! Like anything, it is what you make it, and if this isn''t where he will end up, then he can simply make it work somewhere else, maybe even in a criminology programme!

 

[neatfreak]

DD I think it''s an undergraduate program...some undergrad majors in the US at some schools require you to "get in" because of the high demand.

 

[Shoopy]

Thank you for the responses/tips. When I was an undergrad, there was no requirements to get into the business school...just requirements to stay in it so I was a little shocked. Plus he''s had a really rough year (he was forced to "come out" to the family when he wasn''t ready to) so it has really taken a toll on him but the fact that he''s been able to do so well makes me so proud of him...and now this

. I''m hoping that if in the end he does end up with a 2.9 or something like that, that he will be able to fight it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/16/2008 6:45:45 PM
Author: neatfreak
DD I think it''s an undergraduate program...some undergrad majors in the US at some schools require you to ''get in'' because of the high demand.

Ooohhh.. whoops. I say "business school" and thought MBA type thing! Well, same things apply I guess

It''s the same here for majors, many also require a 3.0 or something.

In that case I hope he can raise his GPA to get in!

 

[Hera]

Depending on the school, he might be able to petition for special consideration.

 

[Shoopy]

And I wanted to clarify that his overall GPA is over 3.0 (3.4 I think) but he has a 2.8 in his critical tracking courses which I believe in total is about 15 or 18 credits.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Sorry, I too saw "business school" and thought you meant postgrad.

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 9/16/2008 7:19:51 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Sorry, I too saw ''business school'' and thought you meant postgrad.

OH sorry I should have clarified that. The way it works in his undergrad (and some others I suppose) is that you take the first two years doing electives and these critical tracking courses. After the two years, you declare a major and are allowed into a separate business school where you take only business courses. And then you can sign on for an extra year if you want to get your Masters or get a CPA. He was going to do accounting but decided to go into Finance.

 

[Haven]

I agree with the suggestions that he take more core classes to boost his GPA. My hunch, however, is that 3.0 is the minimum one needs to be considered, and most candidates probably have a much higher GPA; it probably isn''t a guarantee that he''ll be admitted to the school.

I know it can be frustrating when someone you love wants something and it is just out of his reach. However, business schools are competitive, even in undergrad, and they have admissions standards for good reason.

His counselor should have a very good idea of what a successful candidate looks like. If I were you, I''d suggest he schedule another meeting with his counselor and make an action plan for gaining admittance into the business school. There is no sense whatsoever in studying something else simply because he cannot currently get in!

Good luck to him. You''re such a good sister.

 

[Hera]

Is the business school attached to the school he''s in right now? or is the school something he has to apply to get into? I know with my school (San Diego State University) the business school is attached to the university already and you just need to have a certain GPA to get in and declare that major. In that case, ALL 3.0 persons will get into the major. If he just has to declare then he''ll be fine taking extra classes etc. If he has to apply (like Haven was suggesting), the minimum 3.0 may not be that valid and he might have to compete with other students therefore driving the GPA up higher than 3.0. So does he have to apply or does he just have to declare a major?

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 9/17/2008 2:37:10 AM
Author: heraanderson
Is the business school attached to the school he''s in right now? or is the school something he has to apply to get into? I know with my school (San Diego State University) the business school is attached to the university already and you just need to have a certain GPA to get in and declare that major. In that case, ALL 3.0 persons will get into the major. If he just has to declare then he''ll be fine taking extra classes etc. If he has to apply (like Haven was suggesting), the minimum 3.0 may not be that valid and he might have to compete with other students therefore driving the GPA up higher than 3.0. So does he have to apply or does he just have to declare a major?

It''s attached to the university so he doesn''t have to apply, he just has to declare a major.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

I am sorry, that is so stressful.

Please try to keep him as calm as possible though..putting a bunch of pressure on yourself to get straight A''s only..sometimes doesn''t lead to straight A''s. The stress can make you crack and freak, so it''s not so good. I''ve caught myself on the borderline a few times..so I speak from experience.

Just make sure he relaxes and takes some time for himself every once and a while.

 

[cara]

Many times school morphs from an "educational service" to be purchased a competition field you have to fight to be allowed to play on. Many, many people would be willing to pay Harvard tuition or medical school tuition but are not given that opportunity by the school - even if they would be able to succeed in that environment. This is one of those times, but I'm guessing your brother didn't realize this was a competition when it started?? Ie. did he KNOW he wanted to do business and needed this 3.0 GPA when he entered and was doing his absolute best/getting help when needed in all his classes?

I am sympathetic but please urge him to look at it as a problem to be solved rather than blaming the school. It is GREAT that he knows what he wants now, and he can implement strategies to get help him get what he wants. That is half the struggle in life. Yes, he should study his butt off for these tests and consider what his backup plan is so that he isn't completely stressed out by this - ie. is summer school an option/is there any flexibility in the system. What would be his backup major, and would going to Bschool after a stint working in business also provide him a path forward toward the career he wants.

Just as a "it could be worse" example, my friend was tutoring a senior ROTC student last year. He was a physics major, and had gotten in over his head junior year (and might have been socializing more than studying), and was veeerrryyy close to the ROTC GPA line. He basically needed As in several upper level physics classes to keep in compliance with the program. If he got a B (in some very hard classes), he would be shipped to Iraq AND need to repay his loans for school. My friend, the tutor, was busy, but his student squeaked by... Good luck for your brother!

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Just another take on it: if he has a 2.8 in the business pre-req "tracking" courses yet manages a 3.4 overall, that indicates that he''s pulling nearly straight-As in his non-business courses, doesn''t it?

Perhaps the universe is trying really hard to hit him over the head with the fact that his passion and talent lies elsewhere, like in the non-econ coursework in which he''s pulling easy As?

Food for thought,
f-d-l

 

[pennquaker09]

Another option would be for him to major in economics (as in academic econ, not econ offered as a BBA) and then go on to grad school.

 

[UCLABelle]

I could not be understanding your post, if so, I am sorry! As a former academic counselor with experience in similar programs, many of these are in place for specific reasons that you, or your brother may not see. Sometimes "impacted" programs, or "weeder" programs need to be there for space issues, or to ensure success of the students (i.e. research may show that most, not all, who enter business without a 3.0 or higher do poorly and perhaps may have attrition---). I wouldn't be mad at the college, as many competitive colleges and university have these measures in place for programs. For example, my little brother is in one at UCLA for psychology. Two courses are mandatory and you need at least a 3.0 in them---I also was in a program similar, but the GPA required was a 3.5.

What I would do is have him talk with his counselor. Sometimes, they have the ability to "waive" the requirements on a case-by-case basis (I did in my various positions, and know of many other colleagues at different institutions that do as well!). He can also petition to the college for entrance---

If worse comes to worst, I would do economics, math, etc. Some great schools, such as...UCLA

does not offer business programs (despite having a top 20 business school in Anderson) and many "pre-business" students will pick these majors and then go on and get an MBA. To do business long-term, an MBA is suggest anyway, and many programs take students without a business undergrad degree!!!!! My good friend just graduated with an MBA from Columbia University after getting an undergraduate degree in Econ AND Math at UCLA!

Finally, perhaps a 2.0 or 2.5 is considered good at your brother's college (I do not know), but MANY MANY MANY colleges and universities have significant, significant grade inflation. If you get under a 3.0 at some schools, you are on academic probation. Others it is a 2.5----This started around the mid-90s (grade inflation)....

I hope my post doesn't come off as "mean", I am trying to be helpful...Also, I should note that each school I have experience with is either a top-public university or Ivy League, so these may not be fully accurate---

 

[blondebunny]

Fiery... I got to UCF.. I dunno where ur brother is... But here we dont have a GPA requirements... you just have to get a C in core classes and A B or beter in ur major classes.... I just remember we had to take the prereqs to get into business school... BUT for grad school here that is ANOTHER story... you have to maintain a 3.3 or better and no lower than a B... or you will be kicked out... So many he could consider applying to UCF.... Bcuz to bring ur GPA up froma 2.8 to a 3.0 is going to take more than 2 A''s.... trust me I know from my BF who raised his GPA a ton