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For "icy white", should I insist on a G or above?

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StoopidMonkey

StoopidMonkey

Shiny_Rock
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Mar 11, 2011
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I know this is subject is very dependent on the eye of the beholder, but I wanted to fish for some experienced opinions here. I'm setting up a budget for a 1ct Princess of Hearts and want it to be what I've heard some people call "icy white". A diamond that not only has no visible tinge of yellow face-up, but also none when observing it with the naked eye from the side profile view, once set in platinum. When I describe this to jewelers I often get the answer that I can do that with an H or above (some have even said 'I'), but I'm not so sure. I sure would like to, though, since the price points on H's are pretty nice. I know there are many videos out there on the subject but these are loose diamonds so it's not exactly the same ballpark as a set one. I would imagine a set diamond would be more forgiving than a loose one in a grading environment. More to the point, much like SI1 (or maybe VS2) is the point where you stop noticing differences with the naked eye, at what color grade do you stop noticing the differences and end up paying for a technical rarity that would otherwise go unnoticed (if such a distinction exists with color grades)?

PS- Yes I know I should see for myself, but it might be a while before I can make a trip to a quality jeweler that has a useful pool of mounted stones that I can use to make a comparison.
 
I'm very color sensitive, so maybe I can help. I have a D with SB fluor which I adore, and I can definitely say it is icy white, although I think the fluorescence aids that a lot when it kicks in. I also have 2 G's. I can see the tint in the G's when they are side by side the D, but alone they face up very white. I can see the slight tint in the G AVC, but it doesn't bother me. I can see it most at an angle / from the side in the sun. When I was looking for an AVC, I originally had an L and it was too warm for me. I think an H would still be too warm for my taste, and I was lucky enough to find a G SI1 I really liked. Personally I think G is a sweet spot - still very white in almost all viewing conditions, but not paying the premium for a colorless stone. If I were going for a new stone I'd stay G or above, but that's just me. What kind of setting are you considering? Styles with baskets will hide more of the pavillion so side-view tint isn't really as big an issue there.
 
Thanks! Yes, the setting I'm looking at (which I am positively in love with) does have a bit of a basket so that would block off the pavilion a bit. I suppose that should go into consideration. Here's a pic, it's a Vatche Royal X-Prong with channel baguettes:

X_Prong_Princess_497e74faa77a3.gif
 
Love that setting!
 
Thanks, I love it! Actually got to see it in person compared to the one with the channeled princess diamonds and immediately attached to it. So, even with the basket, would you still say a G is minimum for what I'm looking for?
 
I would stick with G. Also note that the difference in pricing I didn't find to be that dramatic when going from 1 grade of color. 1 grade of clarity I found to be a bigger price difference.

For you, I'd consider a clean SI1 in G.
 
I would stick with G or above - preferably F.
 
The other thing to consider is who certified the diamond as a G color. Just as earning a B from one particular teacher may mean something different than earning a B from another teacher, a G from GIA may look different than a G from EGL. Are you planning on purchasing this stone in a B&M store? Do you know who certified these Princess of Hearts stones?

I'm not very color sensitive so I really can't help you with setting your lowest color possibility. I really do think you need to see the stones in person to make the right decision. This is a big purchase, after all.
 
I have diamonds ranging from D-G and am color sensitive and IMO if you want a purely "icy white" stone a G will not fit the bill. It will have a hint of warmth...but that is just my view when I compared my E to my G. They were graded by different labs though...E - AGS and G - GIA.
 
I would be buying the stone from GOG and all their POH stones are graded by AGS, which I assume is equivalent in quality (or greater) than GIA and certainly EGL, correct?
 
My fiance and I love the icy white look too, so we only considered princess cut diamonds that were graded as 'F' or 'G'. We actually prefer 'F', and that's what we ended up picking - but honestly, I'm a little bit less color-sensitive than he is, and I couldn't tell the difference between the two grades (even when they were next to each other).
 
Please go out and see the color grades live for yourself.
Other people's comfort zone may not be yours.
You may learn that you are fine with an H or lower - or you may discover a that D or E really is worth the money to you.

Be sure you look at only GIA or AGS stones.
Other labs may assign color grades that are a couple grades more colorless than what GIA would give the same stone.
IOW the same stone that EGL graded E may get F, G, H or even a lower color grade from GIA or AGS.
 
I hope you can go out and look at some GIA or AGS rated diamonds so you can compare the different color grades in person.

I am color sensitive and in a PC I would try to find a F. A G will face up white but I think you might see some color from the side or in certain lighting. Since you are wanting an icy white diamond the G may not be for you.
 
Thanks for the advice everybody! To my amazement I started poking around on the PriceScope price charts and saw there is only about a $300-$500 increase from a G to an F, so I may just go for the F. I was surprised that the premium on a "colorless" was that small in comparison to other things. An SI1 to a VS2, now there's a price increase! You guys rock! :)
 
For a truly icy look I would stick with F and above. In fact, I would consider E color. There is a subtle difference in tone of the light that is not simply the absense of yellow, to my eye, that characterizes the icy color of a D-E-F color stone.
 
kenny said:
Please go out and see the color grades live for yourself.
Other people's comfort zone may not be yours.
You may learn that you are fine with an H or lower - or you may discover a that D or E really is worth the money to you.

Be sure you look at only GIA or AGS stones.
Other labs may assign color grades that are a couple grades more colorless than what GIA would give the same stone.
IOW the same stone that EGL graded E may get F, G, H or even a lower color grade from GIA or AGS.
Click to expand...

I agree with Kenny 100%. Everybody's color preference is different. A lot of people think for the savings, a G or lower is perfectly white. I am very color sensitive and I don't think I would want an e-ring diamond that is any lower than an F. Me e-ring diamond is E color with faint fluoro and I'm so happy my fiance went with a higher color, even if I could have had a larger diamond otherwise. Definitely go check out some stones to see what you prefer.
 
SMonkey-are you still looking for a PoH? Because one thing to consider is there is not a huge abundance of them (like there is with rounds). So if there is not a D/E/F in stock, maybe ask when you can expect one?
 
I'm currently in communication with Sarah from GOG and she said once I have the finances in order I can contact them and they can get in touch with their supplier and let them know what I'm looking for so they can send one straight over, just for me. :bigsmile:
 
Just confirmed this in person. Had a local jeweler pull out a E & G round diamond. Wow. They both face-up white enough, although I can detect a bit of warmth in the fire that the G puts out vs a slightly bluer hue that the E shows. The big difference is when looking at them from the side (profile view), which is a real-world viewing scenario if you have an intricate prong work in the setting. The slight yellowishness in the facet corners of the G was not there at all in the E. Probably only something that would jump out to somebody who has seen them side by side and knows what to look for, but now that I've seen it I just have to get a DEF stone. It's going to look so beautiful in platinum!
 
Venice|1300838441|2877723 said:
I would stick with G or above - preferably F.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I am also color sensitive and have owned stones of a whole bunch of colors, and icy seems to begin at F/G, more F though if I am honest.
 
StoopidMonkey|1300892808|2878190 said:
Thanks for the advice everybody! To my amazement I started poking around on the PriceScope price charts and saw there is only about a $300-$500 increase from a G to an F, so I may just go for the F. I was surprised that the premium on a "colorless" was that small in comparison to other things. An SI1 to a VS2, now there's a price increase! You guys rock! :)
Click to expand...

G-H is where the big price change happens in color 8) And, for clarity, as you said between VS2 and SI1. Another big drop happens between I and J.
 
Dreamer_D|1313621499|2992913 said:
Venice|1300838441|2877723 said:
I would stick with G or above - preferably F.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I am also color sensitive and have owned stones of a whole bunch of colors, and icy seems to begin at F/G, more F though if I am honest.
Click to expand...

I have an F and some G's. My own F has only been out 'ice'd' by SET stone with a D with blue flour (unset my be different, but I wear a set stone on my hand, so what do I care about it when unset) .... My G's are ideal cut BGD Signatures and they are very very white... but I don't know if it's because of the very different personalities of step cuts (my F) versus brilliant cuts (my G's) but my G's are more rainbow-y. Friendlier. My F is very icy. My G's are also smaller than my F. So I'm not sure that given the faceting and size differences if a color comparison is something valid with my own diamonds.

I have compared superideal RB's at F and G at the same size, unset and in various lighting conditions at BGD though and I honestly, honestly could only tell the difference because of a SLIGHT tint difference in the G from the side. I think since you are looking at superideal cuts (not RB's true but still the POH is cut for ideal light performance) you should go to Hearts of Fire and look at the Dream cut in an F and G... similar size and under lots of different light (not just the jewelry store light).

I suspect you will be fine with G instead of an F, but to be mindclean... go and see the Hearts on Fire Dream yourself and see what you think with your own eyes.

One thing though... even face up when I held an unset D and a G on my fingers--- I could tell one was a D. I had no idea what Brian placed on my hands. He just plopped two down, face up on my hand and I looked down and the D was just... an absence of color. Whiter than white. I said it's a D once I looked at it from all angles to confirm and was right-- but I knew it just from the face up. But then when I looked at the G when the D wasn't there and other diamonds were (including the F) face up I couldn't see the difference with the color grades F-G-H. There is a reason why D's cost so much more than a G... so don't think they will be interchangeable. You just need to figure out what you are good with and what you aren't. I don't need a D... but someday I'd like one. They are special (especially with flour. IMO). SO while you are Hearts on Fire... compare a D to the F and to the G.
 
I think "icy white" only applies to colorless stones, D-F. I am happy with near-colorless, G-H, but I would not call them icy, just white. The jump from G to F can be thousands depending on the size of the stone. I am very surprised to hear you say that the price difference is only $300-500 in a 1 ct. PoH.
 
I think for that particular price comparison I was referring to the diamond price charts here on PS. I now see that modern day price jumps on branded ideal-cut diamonds are a little more dramatic than that. Still want it though, we'll see what the prices are in a few months.
 
My opinion is tha H and above are "white" And F and above are "icy white".
 
I went to Brian Gavin's workshop today to look at two diamond pairs for earrings (great experience which I will write about when I order and receive the earrings). I had never actually compared colors in person myself. My engagement ring is an H (graded by EGL) and I can see that it's not "icy" but love it anyway. One pair were H/VS2, and the other pair were G/SI1. He set them out on a black tray without telling me which was which and showed them in a variety of lights. I could certainly tell the difference in some lighting conditions but not in others. If the G's hadn't been there though, I might not have noticed the warmth of the H's.
 
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