Fluorescence and color question

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Hi, I bet this has been asked before but I looked through some old threads and still didn''t read a satisfactory answer:

1. If you have let''s say a D/E/F diamond with NO fluorescence and compare it with a G with moderate blue fluorescence: do they look like they are the same color? this is assuming same/very similar cut of course. What if the G only has mild fluorescence or really strong?

2. Does this also apply to H? As in, if I buy an H with strong fluorescence, *how much* whiter is it? White as a G w/o fluoro? An F w/o fluoro?

I think we were planning to buy an F w/o fluoro before but I would like to know where we can save money and have it look the same. I believe a jeweler once showed us a G and an F without fluoro and my SO could see the difference face up somehow.

Thanks in advance!
-MPS

 

[arjunajane]

Hi student, I will attempt to answer to the limit of my understanding, however I belive the reason you haven''t found a satisfactory answer yet is because there are too many variables to really be definitive - as in, faint fluor will usually have no obvious effect on any colour(in "everyday" lighting, not disco lights

).. Medium to strong fluor Could "improve" lower colours such as I/J, depending on the "saturation" or type of fluor. And very strong could, in rare circumstance, effect a stone''s colour negatively.
sooo
1.I would hazard to say the answer is no - if you Can see the difference between an F and a G with no fluor, than fluor in the G will not make it look as white as an D/E to you/your SO.

2.The presence/chance of medium to strong fluor "improving" a stones colour is more applicable to the I/J/K range. I''m probably wrong, but I don''t think its really quantifiable "how much" whiter it will look - this will depend on the colour sensivity of the person, amongst other variables. I believe the improvement could be due to the blue of the fluor off-setting the "warmth" of the lower colour stones that can sometimes be perceived as yellowish tint, and therefore creating a white thats closer to the icey blue/white of a D/E.

As my knowlege isn''t from experience in viewing such stones, just based on what I''ve read and learnt and my own preferences, there''s a good chance others will disagree and I am happy to be corrected!

To ur Q about ur SO, I think fluor is (like so many other diamond things) a personal preference. I like it and if I were going to buy an I/J I would like to have the fluor present. That said, I personally don''t think I''m that colour sensitive, and am fond of the "warmth" of I/J stones aswell. If your SO is that colour sensitive, I might guess that the slight improvement in colour that fluor achieves in an I/J will not be enough if she wants a really Icey white stone. But its always worth looking into! I hope this has helped a little!

What vendor are you buying from if u don''t mind my asking?

 

[oldminer]

The fluorescence issue is very complex. Most people cannot tell the face-up difference in color from D to G in a well cut round diamond of 1ct weight. Medium or more fluorescence may act to create some degree of cloudiness. This effect might inhibit maximizing total light return. Again, you may not see this effect, but it might be happening.

Fluorescence remains a small negative to the argument about what an individual diamond is valued. Generally, fluorescence is part of the asking price for a stone and it is up to individuals to choose a diamond they find sufficiently attractive for their taste and wallet. If you have not budget limit, they there would be little reason to compromise in any way on a potentially negative effect. Few people qualify for that scenario.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 3/23/2008 9:29:14 AM
Author: oldminer
The fluorescence issue is very complex. Most people cannot tell the face-up difference in color from D to G in a well cut round diamond of 1ct weight. Medium or more fluorescence may act to create some degree of cloudiness. This effect might inhibit maximizing total light return. Again, you may not see this effect, but it might be happening.

Fluorescence remains a small negative to the argument about what an individual diamond is valued. Generally, fluorescence is part of the asking price for a stone and it is up to individuals to choose a diamond they find sufficiently attractive for their taste and wallet. If you have not budget limit, they there would be little reason to compromise in any way on a potentially negative effect. Few people qualify for that scenario.

Really? I have never heard this in regard to Med., only strong to very strong, and moreso the latter.

 

[denverappraiser]

An important part of color perception has to do with the details of the light being used. A red light will make a white sheet of paper look red after all. ‘Normal’ interior lighting, meaning the commercially popular fluorescent, incandescent and led lighting that people buy for homes and offices contains a negligible ultraviolet component if you are more than a few inches from the bulb. This means that in typical indoor lighting, even strong blue fluorescence will not have an affect on the appearance of the stone. In daylight or deliberately high UV environments it can have a visible effect of a grade or more and, as Dave points out, in certain rare cases strong fluorescence can add a milky look to the stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/23/2008 9:50:23 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 9:29:14 AM
Author: oldminer
The fluorescence issue is very complex. Most people cannot tell the face-up difference in color from D to G in a well cut round diamond of 1ct weight. Medium or more fluorescence may act to create some degree of cloudiness. This effect might inhibit maximizing total light return. Again, you may not see this effect, but it might be happening.

Fluorescence remains a small negative to the argument about what an individual diamond is valued. Generally, fluorescence is part of the asking price for a stone and it is up to individuals to choose a diamond they find sufficiently attractive for their taste and wallet. If you have not budget limit, they there would be little reason to compromise in any way on a potentially negative effect. Few people qualify for that scenario.

Really? I have never heard this in regard to Med., only strong to very strong, and moreso the latter.

Medium "blue" will rarely have a negative effect on a colorless Diamonds if graded correctly!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 3/23/2008 2:25:50 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 3/23/2008 9:50:23 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 3/23/2008 9:29:14 AM
Author: oldminer
The fluorescence issue is very complex. Most people cannot tell the face-up difference in color from D to G in a well cut round diamond of 1ct weight. Medium or more fluorescence may act to create some degree of cloudiness. This effect might inhibit maximizing total light return. Again, you may not see this effect, but it might be happening.

Fluorescence remains a small negative to the argument about what an individual diamond is valued. Generally, fluorescence is part of the asking price for a stone and it is up to individuals to choose a diamond they find sufficiently attractive for their taste and wallet. If you have not budget limit, they there would be little reason to compromise in any way on a potentially negative effect. Few people qualify for that scenario.

Really? I have never heard this in regard to Med., only strong to very strong, and moreso the latter.

Medium ''blue'' will rarely have a negative effect on a colorless Diamonds if graded correctly!

Yup, thats what I thought, as per the GIA study...

 

[oldminer]

I was carefully being "general" in my response. I said it was a complex issue and it remains that way. Blue fluorescence is a single case and the strength of blue fluorescence can play a role in appearance sometimes. It can be positive, none or negative. GIA does not grade the strength of UV fluorescence with a high degree of exactness, so "medium" on one report may look unlike the "medium" amount on another report or another diamond.

Besides, I am talking about how an effect can alter eyond what the eye can see. VVS1 is no different than IF or VVS2 to the naked eye, but there is a difference in the grade and the value. The same can hold true for UV fluorescent effects. If we can correctly measure less light coming from a very slightly cloudy stone, then, even if your own eyes can''t see it, it is not imaginary, and becomes part of the valuation and negotiation process.

If diamonds were only graded and valued for eye visible differences it would be a very different market. The reality is that diamonds are finely divided into narrow categories demanding fine processing of the known and available data. The more relaiable and comprehensive the data, the more complex the division possible.

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/24/2008 9:29:50 AM
Author: oldminer
I was carefully being ''general'' in my response. I said it was a complex issue and it remains that way. Blue fluorescence is a single case and the strength of blue fluorescence can play a role in appearance sometimes. It can be positive, none or negative. GIA does not grade the strength of UV fluorescence with a high degree of exactness, so ''medium'' on one report may look unlike the ''medium'' amount on another report or another diamond.

Besides, I am talking about how an effect can alter eyond what the eye can see. VVS1 is no different than IF or VVS2 to the naked eye, but there is a difference in the grade and the value. The same can hold true for UV fluorescent effects. If we can correctly measure less light coming from a very slightly cloudy stone, then, even if your own eyes can''t see it, it is not imaginary, and becomes part of the valuation and negotiation process.

If diamonds were only graded and valued for eye visible differences it would be a very different market. The reality is that diamonds are finely divided into narrow categories demanding fine processing of the known and available data. The more relaiable and comprehensive the data, the more complex the division possible.

Couldnt agree with you more..., thats why I bold-ed the " if graded correctly!"