Flourist sued over refusing to service same sex wedding

[Missy]

I don't know what the law dictates here but truthfully I don't care. Because if the law says it is OK for a private business/person to discriminate based on whatever group a person belongs to ( be it gay or jewish or black or deaf etc) well then it's time for the law to change IMO. The law shouldn't be at odds with what is ethically and morally the right thing to do and when it diverges from what is ethical and just that's when the law needs to be changed. I'm all for minimal governing but IMO this is just the reason the government exists. To allow society to function in a fair and civilized way and to protect its citizens for the pursuit of happiness and all that jazz.

ETA: Thing, I love your cat!!! Soulful eyes and a gorgeous sweetie!

 

[iheartscience]

I don't know what the law dictates here but truthfully I don't care. Because if the law says it is OK for a private business/person to discriminate based on whatever group a person belongs to ( be it gay or jewish or black or deaf etc) well then it's time for the law to change IMO. The law shouldn't be at odds with what is ethically and morally the right thing to do and when it diverges from what is ethical and just that's when the law needs to be changed. I'm all for minimal governing but IMO this is just the reason the government exists. To allow society to function in a fair and civilized way and to protect its citizens for the pursuit of happiness and all that jazz.

ETA: Thing, I love your cat!!! Soulful eyes and a gorgeous sweetie!

Ditto, seems that all these Constitution lovers forget about the Declaration of Independence and unalienable rights, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, etc. Unless the pursuit of happiness should only apply to business owners made happy by discriminating against minorities?

 

[cm366]

Why thank you! She's a rescue but is definitely a Maine Coon mix, or maybe even all Maine Coon. Here are a few more of her looking gorgeous, as usual. (She's most impressed with her tail, which is approximately the width of her body.) Her head is wet in the one because she likes to play in the faucet in the bathtub.

I'm also impressed with her tail - and the rest of her, especially those eyes! She's absolutely gorgeous. Thanks for the extra pics! Now to find out more about Maine Coons... Is she a particularly independent cat, or more of a 'people person'?

Thing, I'm curious - I can see how the florist declining to sell them flowers violates the couple's right to be treated like any other customer, although that's not a very well defined right. Still I see more infringement in the government telling the florist to either sell them flowers or close down. Do you see the second bit as not infringing on the florist's rights, or are you assuming that because the florist was initially in the wrong it's okay for the government to punish them more harshly?

I like what Kenny said, that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Publicize the problem, by all means - let poor social behaviour be remedied by public opinion - but lawsuits aren't winning anyone over for the cause. I'd love for this thread to be the second Google hit for Arlene's Flowers, right after the original article!

edited to add: Why Thing, you say Constitution lovers like it's a naughty word!

 

[iheartscience]

Why thank you! She's a rescue but is definitely a Maine Coon mix, or maybe even all Maine Coon. Here are a few more of her looking gorgeous, as usual. (She's most impressed with her tail, which is approximately the width of her body.) Her head is wet in the one because she likes to play in the faucet in the bathtub.

I'm also impressed with her tail - and the rest of her, especially those eyes! She's absolutely gorgeous. Thanks for the extra pics! Now to find out more about Maine Coons... Is she a particularly independent cat, or more of a 'people person'?

Thing, I'm curious - I can see how the florist declining to sell them flowers violates the couple's right to be treated like any other customer, although that's not a very well defined right. Still I see more infringement in the government telling the florist to either sell them flowers or close down. Do you see the second bit as not infringing on the florist's rights, or are you assuming that because the florist was initially in the wrong it's okay for the government to punish them more harshly?

I like what Kenny said, that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Publicize the problem, by all means - let poor social behaviour be remedied by public opinion - but lawsuits aren't winning anyone over for the cause. I'd love for this thread to be the second Google hit for Arlene's Flowers, right after the original article!

edited to add: Why Thing, you say Constitution lovers like it's a naughty word!

Definitely a people person-she's almost always in every room I'm in, and snuggles a lot of the time too! I've always gotten rescue cats and I had no idea what breed she was, but everyone who saw her (including the vet) was like "Is she a Maine Coon?!!" so I looked into them, and she definitely looks like them and has their characteristics. (Likes water, has a trill type of meow, has somewhat water resistant fur, body type, and obviously her giant tail.)

As for the rest, the individuals who aren't being treated equally are harmed more than the florist. I do think the government has the responsibility to create laws to protect people who are routinely discriminated against (people of color, individuals who are LBGTQ, etc.) or to protect the vulnerable (i.e. elderly, kids, cognitively impaired, etc.). And of course I think that the government should enforce those laws.

Do you really think the market would have helped the African-Americans in the South who were routinely discriminated against and even brutalized on a daily basis? Or that they should have waited around for everyone to come around to their side? I sure don't. (I'm from rural Virginia, and racism is alive and well to this day.)

And I say Constitution lovers like it's a naughty word because I'm sick of people using the Constitution to justify their ridiculous positions. It's a document created hundreds of years ago, and in many cases has no connection to our daily lives. (For example, the 2nd amendment being used to justify current gun laws. Go create your well-regulated militias and then get back to me about the 2nd amendment. )

 

[rainwood]

Thing, I love your cat but I love your posts even more. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[kenny]

... lawsuits aren't winning anyone over for the cause.

AGreed.
In fact I'm sure all the attention this Christian woman is getting has her basking in self righteousness.
I can just see everyone running up to hug her after the Sunday morning service.

But such lawsuits will set an example that will deter some other business from discriminating.

 

[AprilBaby]

I believe the florist is a man.

 

[kenny]

I believe the florist is a man.

It doesn't matter, but according to this quote from the OP's link the florist is a woman.

"Robert Ingersoll and his partner, Curt Freed, had been buying flowers from Arlene’s for nearly a decade when Ingersoll asked Barronelle Stutzman to provide flowers for their upcoming wedding in September, according to the couple's attorneys.

Stutzman, who declined to comment to the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, said earlier on her Facebook page that she refused."

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

It's a woman. She's probably like a 50 something Caucasian lady.

 

[kenny]

The headline of this link reports her age:
"ACLU Sues 70-Year-Old Christian Flower Shop Owner for Refusing to Participate in Gay Wedding"


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/aclu-sues-70-year-old-christian-flower-shop-owner-for-refusing-to-participate-in-gay-wedding/

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Wow, even tho I don't like her, I've always thought she was late 50's or maybe 60's.

Anyway...

 

[kenny]

She looks younger than 70.

 

[arkieb1]

I can't get over the tone of the journalist it's about as offensive as the florist....

 

[iheartscience]

Thing, I love your cat but I love your posts even more. Keep fighting the good fight.

Thanks rainwood, on both counts!