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fire from distance

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lovegem

Shiny_Rock
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bf received the solasfera today. I haven''t seen it yet, but will be in a couple days. I have a general question about fire. BF viewed the stone at home and he said when he was looking at the stone close (2 ft), there isn''t much fire. When he looked at the stone 5 ft away the stone just lit up. Why do we see less fire close and tons of fire far away? Is it the same with H&A? I don''t remember anything about H&A behaving like that when I was at the jewelry store.
 
Could have been the lighting that was present when he was looking at it....If you have any question about your Solasfera, take it into direct sunlight. It will light up like there is no tomorrow I bet!
 
From that close, my guess is that his head shadow was covering the diamond and not much light was getting to it. By backing up, more light was able to hit the diamond and return back to his eyes. I''m sure you''ve got nothing to worry about and its a great stone. As Haywood said, just take it out into the sunlight and you won''t believe your eyes!
 
Sounds like a lighting issue because I know my stone has the same fire up close or far away. Ask him to look at the stone close up, but not standing over it directly. Depending on where the lighting source was, he might have been blocking it...?
 
Date: 7/24/2008 1:13:37 PM
Author: surfgirl
Sounds like a lighting issue because I know my stone has the same fire up close or far away. Ask him to look at the stone close up, but not standing over it directly. Depending on where the lighting source was, he might have been blocking it...?
Click to expand...

yep.

In most jewelery stores the lighting is carefully tuned to shine over your shoulder so if your facing the counter there will always be direct bright light hitting the diamond.
Then other lights are shined from the front to light it up if the over the shoulder light is blocked.
Some places where the sales person will stand is based on how tall you are so you get the full effect when you move to where they are.
I have fun in such places by standing 3-4 feet away and making the sales guy move to me and watch them dance trying to get me to move to the "right" spot.
 
Part of the answer is in the nature of fire and the way that the physics of light works and the way that our eyes perceive color in light. When we receive the entire spectrum of light in a ray of light we perceive that light as white (actually colorless).

When light is bent coming out of an optically dense media it shows its colors, think of the prisms that we played with as children, breaking a ray of light into rainbows on the wall.

Dispersion in a diamond is like that, but MUCH smaller.

If the ray of light that is bent is narrower than the iris of the eye at the point at which it is seen by the eye, then the light will appear as a colorless sparkle. If the ray is wider than the iris of the eye, it will appear as a colored event, or disperion.

The solisfera has ten arrows and more facets than a standard round brilliant cut diamoind. Thus both the facets and the virtual facets are much smaller than those from a standard round brilliant and will appear to have a lot more colorless events than the round when viewed close up. From several feet away the rays have had the time to expand to a width that is larger than the iris of the eye and thus you will receive the full benefit of the many thousands of extra virtual facets that the solisfera has.

And that is why it appears to really light up from a distance. Just that pesky old science stuff...

Wink
 
That''s very interesting.

I''ve wondered about how much the size of the diamond affects how much fire we see. I''ve been playing with a .5 carat ideal cut, and from very close up (inches from my eye) it has tons of color, but from farther away it looks whiter--the opposite of what you just described, Wink. I hypothesized that because the flashes of color are so small, at a distance they blend together into what light. My 1.6ish ct OEC, on the other hand, looks very colorful from near and far. I hypothesized that that was because the flashes of light are bigger--both because the stone itself is bigger, and because the cut makes for bigger planes of light, rather than the needle-like arrows of modern brilliants. But this seems to contradict what Wink just said.
 
Date: 7/24/2008 4:09:57 PM
Author: glitterata
That''s very interesting.

I''ve wondered about how much the size of the diamond affects how much fire we see. I''ve been playing with a .5 carat ideal cut, and from very close up (inches from my eye) it has tons of color, but from farther away it looks whiter--the opposite of what you just described, Wink. I hypothesized that because the flashes of color are so small, at a distance they blend together into what light. My 1.6ish ct OEC, on the other hand, looks very colorful from near and far. I hypothesized that that was because the flashes of light are bigger--both because the stone itself is bigger, and because the cut makes for bigger planes of light, rather than the needle-like arrows of modern brilliants. But this seems to contradict what Wink just said.
Click to expand...

LOL! Not necessarily. It is confusing stuff this science, which is why I leave most of it to my more scientifically minded friends. To know for sure we would need to see some light paths as the light is leaving the stone and determine the widths at the various distances at which you are viewing the stones. It could have something to do with the events being to small to be detected at a distance or other things that I am not competent to surmise or comment on, since you are looking at the gem and I am not I am perfectly willing to believe your statement, and know that a real light scientist could explain why this is happening in a manner that is totally congruent with what I said earlier.

What I really know well is that I love diamonds and gems and I love the mysteries that they bring to my eyes each and every day.

Wink
 
when I look at my 1.22 aca using a spot light (halogen 50watts) directly, it doesn't light up that much...But >>>
Here's the interesting part, when I use my hands to shadow the lighting....the diamond turns whiter and sparkles like crazy ????

Why is that???????????
 
Thanks guys.

Wink. I think what you said made sense. thanks.
 
Date: 7/24/2008 10:14:11 PM
Author: smithy617
when I look at my 1.22 aca using a spot light (halogen 50watts) directly, it doesn''t light up that much...But >>>

Here''s the interesting part, when I use my hands to shadow the lighting....the diamond turns whiter and sparkles like crazy ????


Why is that???????????
Click to expand...

Actually bf said with the solasfera, the stone seems to be sparkling in dime lights as well as strong lights, but in medium light, there isn''t anything going on (all home ind light settings).

Smithy, I am wondering whether there is anything call canceling of fire? Just like sound, 2 sound waves traveling opposite of each other can cancel out each other. When you shine a light directly at the ACA stone, all facets receive the same amount of light. In a symmetrical stone, color lights (fire) that were suppose to come off will be join by other colors to make things WHITE again, that''s why you see no sparkles, but a whiter stone. OK. I suck at physics.

Wink, please tell us more...
 
Date: 7/25/2008 12:07:27 AM
Author: lovegem

Actually bf said with the solasfera, the stone seems to be sparkling in dime lights as well as strong lights, but in medium light, there isn't anything going on (all home ind light settings).
Click to expand...
move it a bit and watch it come to life.
How big is the stone?

solasfera's are not fireballs(until you hit 3ct or so) they are tuned to white light return and scintillation by a combination of the c/p angles and the small virtual facets.
 
the stone is a 1.09 ct, G SI1
 
Date: 7/24/2008 4:09:57 PM
Author: glitterata
That''s very interesting.

I''ve wondered about how much the size of the diamond affects how much fire we see. I''ve been playing with a .5 carat ideal cut, and from very close up (inches from my eye) it has tons of color, but from farther away it looks whiter--the opposite of what you just described, Wink. I hypothesized that because the flashes of color are so small, at a distance they blend together into what light. My 1.6ish ct OEC, on the other hand, looks very colorful from near and far. I hypothesized that that was because the flashes of light are bigger--both because the stone itself is bigger, and because the cut makes for bigger planes of light, rather than the needle-like arrows of modern brilliants. But this seems to contradict what Wink just said.
Click to expand...

The virtual facets of a RB vary in size from med. to small.
The virtual facets of an oec range from large to small.
The med sized virtual facet on a 1.6ish oec is larger than the largest virtual facet on a .5ct RB.
An oec typically draws light from different locations than a RB (more and different locations of green in an ASET image)

The oec will have more separation between the flashes because of the larger virtual facets and likely isn''t as directional.

Small flashes from small virtual facets with little separation tend to combine and be seen as white light.

Btw I''m not convinced that it is correct that small colored flashes will be seen as white light.
Take a black piece of paper and poke very very tiny holes in it with a sharp sewing needle.
put a piece of red paper behind it.
Shine a bright light behind it towards the red paper so you see red dots where the tiny holes are at.
No matter how close you get to the paper the red spots never turn white.
 
Date: 7/25/2008 4:05:28 AM
Author: lovegem
the stone is a 1.09 ct, G SI1
Click to expand...
should be very very bright with a ton of scintillation but I wouldn't expect a lot of fire out of it.
Is the stone mounted?

Is the diamond from GOG? if so can I get a link to its webpage?
 
no the stone is not "mounted" as mounted in a ring setting, but it is "mounted" on something that looks like a ring for display.

Yes, it is very bright (so bf said). I always thought sparkles (scintillation) are fire. I have to be honest, if fire is "red, green, blue" color, I have never seen anything like that from even H&A stones in the 1ct range. I am more confused than ever.
 
Date: 7/24/2008 10:14:11 PM
Author: smithy617
when I look at my 1.22 aca using a spot light (halogen 50watts) directly, it doesn''t light up that much...But >>>

Here''s the interesting part, when I use my hands to shadow the lighting....the diamond turns whiter and sparkles like crazy ????


Why is that???????????
Click to expand...

check out this vid.

http://diamondscope.pricescope.com/?src=GarryhPro.wmv
 
Date: 7/25/2008 4:38:13 AM
Author: lovegem
no the stone is not ''mounted'' as mounted in a ring setting, but it is ''mounted'' on something that looks like a ring for display.


Yes, it is very bright (so bf said). I always thought sparkles (scintillation) are fire. I have to be honest, if fire is ''red, green, blue'' color, I have never seen anything like that from even H&A stones in the 1ct range. I am more confused than ever.
Click to expand...

fire is colored light return:
see this thread for pictures of diamond fire:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-fire-thread.77649/

scintillation is the on/off flashes of light as the diamond or the light is moved.

sparkle is both scintillation and static hot/bright spots to most people.
In the thread I linked you will also see samples of hot spots.
 
Here are the virtual facets in a solasfera and a RB.

web_virtualfacetsRBvsSolo.jpg
 
Strm, I just realized you asked for a link to the stone. Here it is.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4568/
 
Date: 7/25/2008 4:26:42 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/24/2008 4:09:57 PM
Author: glitterata
That''s very interesting.

I''ve wondered about how much the size of the diamond affects how much fire we see. I''ve been playing with a .5 carat ideal cut, and from very close up (inches from my eye) it has tons of color, but from farther away it looks whiter--the opposite of what you just described, Wink. I hypothesized that because the flashes of color are so small, at a distance they blend together into what light. My 1.6ish ct OEC, on the other hand, looks very colorful from near and far. I hypothesized that that was because the flashes of light are bigger--both because the stone itself is bigger, and because the cut makes for bigger planes of light, rather than the needle-like arrows of modern brilliants. But this seems to contradict what Wink just said.
Click to expand...

The virtual facets of a RB vary in size from med. to small.
The virtual facets of an oec range from large to small.
The med sized virtual facet on a 1.6ish oec is larger than the largest virtual facet on a .5ct RB.
An oec typically draws light from different locations than a RB (more and different locations of green in an ASET image)

The oec will have more separation between the flashes because of the larger virtual facets and likely isn''t as directional.

Small flashes from small virtual facets with little separation tend to combine and be seen as white light.

Btw I''m not convinced that it is correct that small colored flashes will be seen as white light.
Take a black piece of paper and poke very very tiny holes in it with a sharp sewing needle.
put a piece of red paper behind it.
Shine a bright light behind it towards the red paper so you see red dots where the tiny holes are at.
No matter how close you get to the paper the red spots never turn white.
Click to expand...
Different things. In dispersion, the color you are seeing is the part of the ray of light that is bent into the spectral colors, like going through a prism. In fact if you have a steady hand sometimes you can slowly move a diamond and watch the dispersion change from one color to another.

In the paper experiment that you refer to above the light is no longer white light, since it is coming off the colored paper which has absorbed some of the spectrum leaving our eyes perceiving the resultant color as red. Thus the color that we see is no longer dependant on the ray of light at our iris being wider than our iris to avoid it being perceived of as white light.

Somewhere on this board is a thread about the class I took at AGS two or three years ago that documents this, including pictures. Perhaps one of our archivists can find it for us.

Wink
 
It stands to reason that white light broken into its spectral colors may be more visibly colored at a greater distance than close up to where the break-up is occurring. The white light is spreading apart as its colors become visible since each color moves are a slightly differing speed through air (or any other medium). As you step back from the prismatic effect, the distance increases in the spread of the spectral display. More colors could be easily seen at a distance than close up.
 
Date: 7/25/2008 3:37:37 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 7/25/2008 10:36:39 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 7/25/2008 10:31:41 AM
Author: Wink

Somewhere on this board is a thread about the class I took at AGS two or three years ago that documents this, including pictures. Perhaps one of our archivists can find it for us.

Wink
Click to expand...
Wink, is this it?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/some-interesting-things-from-ags-class.40823/
Click to expand...
Yes brilliant lady, thank you!

Wink
Click to expand...
awww shucks...* blush* you are most welcome!
35.gif
 
Date: 7/25/2008 2:54:20 PM
Author: oldminer
It stands to reason that white light broken into its spectral colors may be more visibly colored at a greater distance than close up to where the break-up is occurring. The white light is spreading apart as its colors become visible since each color moves are a slightly differing speed through air (or any other medium). As you step back from the prismatic effect, the distance increases in the spread of the spectral display. More colors could be easily seen at a distance than close up.
Click to expand...

makes sense
 
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