Finally! Making final diamond selection - please help me decide!!

[denverboy]

First, I''ll tell you my "goals" - I was looking for something around 0.7 c, G-H color, SI-VS2 clarity (completely eye clean), and around $2500-3000. I will most likely be doing a custom platinum setting that will cost around $2200-2500. Her finger size is 4.5, so I think a 0.7 c stone will look just fine.

NOTE: WF has not yet uploaded the images/reports for these diamonds since they just got them in.

I have this diamond on hold. James said it is completely eye clean (he said they checked it from all distances and from the side too).
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255843.htm

questions
1) Does it look ok to you?
2) anything I should worry about? only thing I am possibly worried about is the "thin" girdle

The other diamonds I am considering are here:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255844.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255845.htm

more questions
3) On all of these, the pavilion angle is 40.7 degrees - seems odd... do you think they accidently put this number in for all these new stones??
4) Are either of the last 2 stones much better than the 1st one and worth the extra cost? (it would be pushing my budget to the max)
5) I''m assuming the difference in size (0.12mm diameter, 4% area difference, but 15% cost difference) is almost unnoticeable to the naked eye, right?
6) Her sister has a 0.9 carat stone... I''m not trying to compete directly b/c obviously I can''t beat that b/c of my budget/quality restrictions, but is it ok to go w/ the 0.7c, or should I go up to 0.75?? If they compare them side by side will it make much of a diff?? I know I pretty much answered my own question in the line above, but just want more opions.

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mercoledi]

Wow, you have three great choices! The only way I know of to pare these down would be with IS/ASET info.

WF cuts their own stones/has them cut for them, so the 40.7/ 34.X combo might be something that they specify for ACAs.

The general rule is that a difference of 0.1mm is what most people can discern when seeing two stones side by side. I would guess that very few people can tell a 71 pointer from a 75 pointer without a direct comparison. My advice would be to get the diamond that best fits your budget, chances are that she'll love it and if not, well WF has a great upgrade policy.

 

[denverboy]

hmm ok when I put the details into HCA for the 0.74 c. stone, it gives pretty "average" results of VG VG Good VG... I''ve never seen an ACA stone get something that low. So thats what makes me wonder if the pav. angle number is wrong.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

This may be off topic, but I thought I''d throw in a different point of view for you to consider. Have you already picked out the custom setting? I always thought that my setting was to showcase my diamond, in which case, I would rather have most of the money put into the center stone, not a 50/50 split of the budget for stone and setting. Sounds like you are making your center stone an accent to the setting. You have a good budget that would allow you to get her a 1 carat, nicely cut stone and still have a decent setting. If you do get the custom setting with a .70 -.75 stone, make sure that the setting will allow for a larger stone in case you want to go bigger at some point. It would be a shame to not be able to use the setting if you decide the stone needs to be bigger later. Here''s an example of pricing for a nice 1 carat stone.


http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1258265.htm

 

[Clairitek]

First of all- congrats on your upcoming engagement! Your girlfriend is lucky to have a guy who is willing to put in so much time, effort, and love into her engagement ring.

Now I won''t bill myself as any sort of jewel expert I would have to say that based on what WF has to say about the stones you''ve listed that they''re all good choices. They are listed as ACA H&A Ideal cut stones so you know you are going to get a quality cut with any of them.

Now taking a little look at the math aspect of choosing size... The first stone listed has an area of 26.51 mm^2. The biggest stone you listed has an area of 27.43 mm^2. I found a 0.9 carat RB stone that has a diameter of 6.19 mm and an area of 30.09 mm^2. So the largest stone you listed is about 8.8% smaller than your girlfriend''s sister''s stone. The stone you have on hold is 11.9% smaller than the sister''s stone or almost 0.4 mm smaller in diameter.

So to answer your second list of questions...
1) From the little bit of diamond education I have received I''ve learned that a 41 degree pavilion angle is considered desirable. Considering these are all ACA H&A stones I am not surprised that they all share that 40.7 degree angle. I think its just a coincidence.

2) Not considering your third question in this list I am not convinced that a 4% increase in area and a 15% increase in cost is really worth it. Especially on a 4.5 size finger. I have a 5.5 size finger and I think that 0.7-0.75 carats is just fine. If I were you I don''t know if I would be able to justify the extra cost.

3) Now taking into account the sister''s stone it might be worth the extra cost to get the almost 0.76 carat stone. **But really, in the end, this ring is about you and her... not you and her and her sister''s ring. ** (When FF was beginning to do ring research I was really caught up on having a stone larger than my friend''s. For no good reason at all! Thankfully, not long into ring research, I came to fully embrace the statement I made just above). If you feel like that money could be better used somewhere else then I wouldn''t bother. Its just a 12% difference in area. They would really have to stare hard at their diamonds to see that difference. Also remember that ultimately I bet your girlfriend will be so excited about the ring and being engaged to you that she won''t really care about her sister''s stone "beating" hers by 0.2 carats.

I have a couple of questions for you though!
1) Did WF mention a 5% pricescope discount? When I was on the phone with them yesterday they mentioned that to me. That discount will take a few hundred bucks off of the full price of each of these stones. It makes the most expensive one come in at just under $3K.
2) What cut of stone is in her sister''s ring? I just realized that I made the assumption that its an RB stone. Different cuts look very different in similar carat weights. For example, a 0.9 carat princess cut stone is almost 1 mm smaller than the average RB.

I hope that what I''ve said is a little helpful. Good luck and I look forward to seeing the finished product!

 

[Ellen]

The one you have on hold is gorgeous. The girdle is fine at thin, I have a thin girdle. If it was too thin, it wouldn''t be an ACA.

Not sure about the PA''s, but I woudn''t worry about it.

Running these stones through the HCA is moot at this point, they are AGS0 stones, we know they''re well cut.

And I would not be surprised if your .70 outshined the sisters .90.

 

[Clairitek]

Date: 8/26/2008 12:33:57 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
This may be off topic, but I thought I''d throw in a different point of view for you to consider. Have you already picked out the custom setting? I always thought that my setting was to showcase my diamond, in which case, I would rather have most of the money put into the center stone, not a 50/50 split of the budget for stone and setting. Sounds like you are making your center stone an accent to the setting.

I forgot to mention this point in my earlier post (sorry for flooding your thread with posts!). I feel the same way about the stone:setting ratio. But then again, I am also very much into more plain settings that I can pair with a really stunning WB when I get married. Do you know what your girlfriend''s setting tastes are or are you doing this as a complete surprise to her? If she really digs intricate custom settings then by all means, go with your original plan!

 

[denverboy]

Date: 8/26/2008 12:35:41 PM
Author: Clairitek

I have a couple of questions for you though!
1) Did WF mention a 5% pricescope discount? When I was on the phone with them yesterday they mentioned that to me. That discount will take a few hundred bucks off of the full price of each of these stones. It makes the most expensive one come in at just under $3K.
2) What cut of stone is in her sister''s ring? I just realized that I made the assumption that its an RB stone. Different cuts look very different in similar carat weights. For example, a 0.9 carat princess cut stone is almost 1 mm smaller than the average RB.

I hope that what I''ve said is a little helpful. Good luck and I look forward to seeing the finished product!

thanks for your detailed response clairitek! Yes WF did mention the discount, and no I''m not sure what cut her sisters stone is (I didn''t want to ask too many questions about it).

And to hearts-arrows_girl - yes you''re right I am considering the ring important as a whole, not focusing totally on the diamond. I will def. take your advice and try to leave room for upgrading the size in the future (i''ll ask if thats possible with the design i''m choosing... may or may not work). As for the stone size, I did consider maximizing size and taking a hit on cut quality, but on her finger size and from what i''ve seen in stores, I decided my own opinion is that 0.7 c. is a good size and 1.0 c looked a bit too big for my taste. Of course, that will probably change in the future lol we''ll see..

 

[denverboy]

Date: 8/26/2008 12:40:31 PM
Author: Clairitek

Date: 8/26/2008 12:33:57 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
This may be off topic, but I thought I''d throw in a different point of view for you to consider. Have you already picked out the custom setting? I always thought that my setting was to showcase my diamond, in which case, I would rather have most of the money put into the center stone, not a 50/50 split of the budget for stone and setting. Sounds like you are making your center stone an accent to the setting.

I forgot to mention this point in my earlier post (sorry for flooding your thread with posts!). I feel the same way about the stone:setting ratio. But then again, I am also very much into more plain settings that I can pair with a really stunning WB when I get married. Do you know what your girlfriend''s setting tastes are or are you doing this as a complete surprise to her? If she really digs intricate custom settings then by all means, go with your original plan!

no problem, thanks for all your feedback its great =D
she likes antique style settings so I''ll be putting together something like that (I''ll post pics of my setting idea in a day or two), but if you''re really curious you can search for my previous threads to get an idea of which setting styles I''m taking ideas from.

 

[mercoledi]

Date: 8/26/2008 12:26:39 PM
Author: denverboy
hmm ok when I put the details into HCA for the 0.74 c. stone, it gives pretty ''average'' results of VG VG Good VG... I''ve never seen an ACA stone get something that low. So thats what makes me wonder if the pav. angle number is wrong.

Hmm, I get ex/ex/ex/vg with 60.6% depth, 57% table, 34.6° crown angle, 40.7°. As Ellen said, your comparing apple to apples here, and they all taste pretty darn good.

Personally, in your shoes I would go with the .71 that you have on hold. It''s a beautiful stone.

 

[Clairitek]

Date: 8/26/2008 12:48:11 PM
Author: denverboy
no problem, thanks for all your feedback its great =D

she likes antique style settings so I''ll be putting together something like that (I''ll post pics of my setting idea in a day or two), but if you''re really curious you can search for my previous threads to get an idea of which setting styles I''m taking ideas from.

Ooooh pretty setting choices! I scanned through a few really quickly and they all look nice. I can see why you are reserving a good portion of your ring budget for the setting! Looks like you''re on the right track here with all of this.

 

[denverboy]

update! they uploaded the cert, idealscope, and aset images for all the diamonds I listed above.
The idealscopes and aset images all look very similar in my opinion.

The inclusion on the SI1 stone (which I have on hold) seems to be a small feather near the edge of the table. In the past I've read bad comments about feather inclusions ... I don't remember what exactly or why... is a feather bad for some reason? anything to be worried about? If not, I'm 99% sure I'm going to seal the deal on this stone...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:27:05 PM
Author: denverboy
update! they uploaded the cert, idealscope, and aset images for all the diamonds I listed above.
The idealscopes and aset images all look very similar in my opinion.

The inclusion on the SI1 stone (which I have on hold) seems to be a small feather near the edge of the table. In the past I''ve read bad comments about feather inclusions ... I don''t remember what exactly or why... is a feather bad for some reason? anything to be worried about? If not, I''m 99% sure I''m going to seal the deal on this stone...

That''s because as merc so well put it, they''re all "Red Delicious" apples.

Ask WF to give their expert opinion on the feather, they are in the best postion to say, as they have the stone. They will be quite honest with you.

 

[denverboy]

Date: 8/26/2008 3:57:47 PM
Author: Ellen


Ask WF to give their expert opinion on the feather, they are in the best postion to say, as they have the stone. They will be quite honest with you.

I asked James about it and he said he wouldn''t worry about it b/c it doesn''t span the length of the diamond, it doesn''t reach the surface, it''s not near the girdle, and it''s pretty small in size. He was just looking at the report during this. And overall he said it is rarely an issue, and for this stone he doesn''t think it would pose any risk at all to its durability.

So that helps relieve SOME of the anxiety I had over it, but I''ve still got some lingering concern over it. any thoughts on this?

another stone I am considering is:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255830.htm#
$2900 after PS discount and bank wire

I''m so indecisive aahhhhhhhhhh this is the hardest part for me ... picking the best option out of 2 or 3 great options

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/26/2008 7:03:26 PM
Author: denverboy


I asked James about it and he said he wouldn''t worry about it b/c it doesn''t span the length of the diamond, it doesn''t reach the surface, it''s not near the girdle, and it''s pretty small in size. He was just looking at the report during this. And overall he said it is rarely an issue, and for this stone he doesn''t think it would pose any risk at all to its durability.

So that helps relieve SOME of the anxiety I had over it, but I''ve still got some lingering concern over it. any thoughts on this?

another stone I am considering is:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-1255830.htm#
$2900 after PS discount and bank wire

I''m so indecisive aahhhhhhhhhh this is the hardest part for me ... picking the best option out of 2 or 3 great options

This is just as gorgeous, and if it will be more "mind clean" for you, maybe you should consider getting it.

But the other one sounds fine! It''s just a matter of what makes you comfortable.

 

[denverboy]

Is it rude or normal to ask for a second opinion on the inclusions/report of a diamond (from another sales rep)? Also, I think so far every time I’ve asked about the diamond they’ve just looked at the certificate and images online… is it a big deal for me to ask them to look at the actual stone and real certificate (to make sure they are seeing all details)?

i feel like my sales guy is getting annoyed w/ me =/

 

[Allison D.]

Denver, it might help you to know that the information the sales person has is actually already the feedback from several sets of eyes.

When stones come, they are visually examined by a few folks, each of whom give their feedback on what they can see in terms of clarity. All the reps have that information at hand, so the information they are conveying to you is a collective result.

Regarding certificates, the ''real'' grading reports are scanned, so they are a faithful representation of the original.

I hope this information helps, but let me know if I can help further. I''d be happy to.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/28/2008 12:21:29 PM
Author: denverboy

Is it rude or normal to ask for a second opinion on the inclusions/report of a diamond (from another sales rep)? Also, I think so far every time I’ve asked about the diamond they’ve just looked at the certificate and images online… is it a big deal for me to ask them to look at the actual stone and real certificate (to make sure they are seeing all details)?

i feel like my sales guy is getting annoyed w/ me =/

No, that''s not rude, I''m sure many want a second opinion.

Allison has given you some pertinent info, but if you would still like someone to look over the stone once more and give an opinion, ask for Brian to check it out for you.

 

[denverboy]

just an update FYI - I spoke with Brian and he was very helpful and understanding and assured me that for this particular stone the feathers were not a durability issue b/c of their size and location. He took his time and explained everything very well until I was completely comfortable.

So I have decided to go with that stone after all

It is on hold while we discuss possible custom setting options, so I technically could still return it if I change my mind... so if any experts out there disagree and think I shouldn''t do it for some reason, please speak now or forever hold your peace!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/1/2008 1:55:35 PM
Author: denverboy
just an update FYI - I spoke with Brian and he was very helpful and understanding and assured me that for this particular stone the feathers were not a durability issue b/c of their size and location. He took his time and explained everything very well until I was completely comfortable.

So I have decided to go with that stone after all

It is on hold while we discuss possible custom setting options, so I technically could still return it if I change my mind... so if any experts out there disagree and think I shouldn''t do it for some reason, please speak now or forever hold your peace!

There isn''t anyone more "expert" than Brian. You''re good to go.

Come back with pics of the ring please!

 

[rainydaze]

congrats on finding a stone! i just wanted to chime and and say that my best friend has the same size finger as your girl and wears a 3/4 carat solitaire and it is stunning. it is one of my favorites, so personally i think you have hit the nail on the head with size!