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Filly update

justginger

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
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She and Jockey are at another carer's house and seemingly doing ok. Both eating and drinking, plus getting subcutaneous fluid injections. They're not having such severe diarrhea, and Filly gained nearly 45 grams in one day which is great. Of course, they're not even close to being out of the woods, especially since her poo culture that my DH set up at work yesterday came back today...

And it grew Salmonella typhimurium. Bad for little kitties. Not much you can do to treat it, just keep up their fluid levels while they try to fight it off themselves. I phoned the vet I had been dealing with and she hit the roof. Started going on and on and on (and ON!) about how it's nearly a notifiable disease, every other animal that I ever have in my house is going to get it, I need to be wearing a gown and gloves when I have anything to do with any of the kittens, and her recommendation was euthanasia. I asked if we continue to keep them hydrated if they will clear themselves of the infection and she emphatically said no. It must be treated with an odd set of antibiotics that can have potentially nasty side effects on young animals. So, as I said, her recommendation was euthanasia.

Extreme for me. Very extreme. I've had these kittens pooping for weeks now, and I've taken next to no precautions. They've mingled with all our animals, they've done silly kitten things like stepped in their own poo and tracked it around the house in the night, so hours passed before it was cleaned up. I've been wiping their bottoms for them without stringent hand sanitizing (of course I washed, but not properly). And no one else is ill. We've got two humans with normal poo. Two adult dogs with normal poo. Two adult cats with normal poo. A 10 month old cat with normal poo. Two kittens from the same litter with normal weights and normal poo. One kitten that is only about 20% below normal weight with normal poo. And then we've got one kitten with juicy poo, that is underweight. All are eating well, playing, alert, happy, and the smallest ones are gaining weight. The two sickest have been moved to a carer who has them in isolation and is willing to continue keeping up their fluids until they start to heal on their own. I just think that killing them all is extremely rash. Even if we DO get sick from them, S. typhimurium is not disastrous. It's a pain in the butt, quite literally. But unless we were very old or immunocompromised, we'd just poop for a few days and get over it.

So I don't think they're going to be PTS. Every piece of literature I've found online says that it can be resolved on its own as long as fluids are kept up and the kitten is eating. They continue to carry and shed this bacteria for weeks afterwards though, so they will not be able to be rehomed for a few months at least. The cat coordinator for our rescue group (who is the one taking care of Filly and Jockey) is going to be consulting with two other vets that we regularly use to see what they think. My gut instinct is that this vet is an alarmist. If we can nurse puppies back from parvo in our homes, we can deal with Salmonella.

Please do keep them in your thoughts though - it will be a tough battle for these little guys and I don't think any of us are confident that they're necessarily going to make it. We want to give them an honest chance though, so euthanasia at this point is not an option.
 
It seems to me you're making the right decision to seek other advice. You understand the risks, you know the best treatment, and are trying to do the best thing for all. If the other vets think that keeping the kittens hydrated and eating is a reasonable way to proceed, you might want to reconsider whether you ever go back to that first vet. Her philosophy and goals seem quite different than yours.
 
rainwood said:
It seems to me you're making the right decision to seek other advice. You understand the risks, you know the best treatment, and are trying to do the best thing for all. If the other vets think that keeping the kittens hydrated and eating is a reasonable way to proceed, you might want to reconsider whether you ever go back to that first vet. Her philosophy and goals seem quite different than yours.
I completely agree.

I'm so sorry. That must have been a very difficult conversation to have with the vet! Poor Filly.
 
Intense! That seems quite extreme... is this vet not a rescue supporter?? I'd find that VERY hard to listen to especially when it does not jive with my own philosophy.

I hope they recover and you can prove her wrong!! I'd be like you - wanting to keep them going and doing what you can to keep them alive. I don't think I could justify putting them down based on one person's (extreme?) position.

Fingers crossed and some DUST blown from a winter wonderland, way up here in Ontario! I have my hopes up that things will go well for all your furbabies - and that you and DH remain healthy!! Hang in there JG!!!

(and are you feeling better yet in general???)
 
Rosebloom|1356261230|3338449 said:
rainwood said:
It seems to me you're making the right decision to seek other advice. You understand the risks, you know the best treatment, and are trying to do the best thing for all. If the other vets think that keeping the kittens hydrated and eating is a reasonable way to proceed, you might want to reconsider whether you ever go back to that first vet. Her philosophy and goals seem quite different than yours.
I completely agree.

I'm so sorry. That must have been a very difficult conversation to have with the vet! Poor Filly.

I agree as well. I am so sorry this is happening and I am keeping all of the kitties and your whole furbaby family and you and your dh in my thoughts and prayers and sending bucket loads of healing PS recovery dust to all involved!!
 
Enerchi|1356262524|3338450 said:
Intense! That seems quite extreme... is this vet not a rescue supporter?? I'd find that VERY hard to listen to especially when it does not jive with my own philosophy.

I hope they recover and you can prove her wrong!! I'd be like you - wanting to keep them going and doing what you can to keep them alive. I don't think I could justify putting them down based on one person's (extreme?) position.

Fingers crossed and some DUST blown from a winter wonderland, way up here in Ontario! I have my hopes up that things will go well for all your furbabies - and that you and DH remain healthy!! Hang in there JG!!!

(and are you feeling better yet in general???)

I am feeling much better, Enerchi - thank you for asking. I slept 13 hours straight last night and feel like with the coordinator taking over the care of the most fragile of the lot, a ton of bricks has been taken off my shoulders. I feel guilty about saddling her with them, but she is far more experienced and very level-headed. I know she will do a fabulous job. I've had my first proper meal tonight in four days. Let me tell you, a bit of illness, heaped with a crapload of stress, and the weight just falls off. Think I'm down 3.5 kilos (so a bit under 8 pounds). It'll be back in a couple of days of normal eating.

This vet that I have been liasing with is not one of the ones our rescue group usually uses (we have three we use for all our work). She is at the emergency vet hospital just down the road from me -- when Filly needed care in the middle of the night, one of our rescue vets isn't open at all after hours, one is located a bit over an hour away from me, and the third... Well, let me tell you, the third flat out told me she'd likely be dead in an hour and he had just gotten home from a previous call out 10 minutes earlier, and wouldn't be going back in for me. :angryfire: I just don't understand him - other people in our rescue group swear he's an absolute saint (there's no doubt he is very knowledgeable), but I've never been treated well by him. So, I called our VP and said that I could not watch another kitten die in front of me again, having lost Trifecta the previous day. She approved for me to go to the nearest clinic (despite the fact that their call out fee is three times the cost of our normal rescue vets). That's how I've ended up mixed up with this other, unfamiliar vet.

Besides the fact that she's an alarmist, they've given me absolutely NO discounts on either Trifecta (who died in their care) or FIlly, despite knowing they are rescue kittens. I'm not positive I will be reimbursed by the rescue group for the expenses related to Trifecta because I took him there without pre-approval. As of now, between the two kittens, I'm out just under $900 to that clinic.

So the plan from here on, at my house anyway, is to get poo specis from the rest of my kittens, both the two small ones and the two big ones, and get them cultured up at work. Being in microbiology is a serious blessing right now. Each one of these cultures would be $270 through the vet pathology lab! Anyway, get them cultured up to see if any of these are carrying the same thing. If not, EXCELLENT. If they are, I'm not changing anything. They're alert and eating, even playing, and gaining weight. I'll just keep some bleach wipes with me to wipe the bottoms of my shoes as I walk out of the laundry (they've been quarantined, at least until I get the test results), and extra good hand hygiene.

To try to eliminate any chance of Salmonella floating around in the house, I absolutely STERILIZED it today. Pure bleach in all the litter boxes. 1:10 bleach on the floors (that's a stronger concentration than we use at work, lol). Bleach wipes on EVERY surface of the whole house - washing machine, walls, doors, handles, coffee table, lamp bases, chair legs, bedside tables, window and door tracks, skirting boards, bathroom vanity, kitchen cupboards, stove, fridge, computer desk, all the pet food containers, shelves and bookcases, etc, etc, etc. I used an entire family sized tub of bleach wipes. It took me 7.5 hours of continuous cleaning. Stripped all bedding, all dirty clothes, all kitty bedding, all soft toys and they got a hot, long wash. The only thing I can't clean are the bedroom carpets, but I am going to get them steamed. Not sure if that would kill Salmonella, but it certainly won't hurt.

Let me tell you, that marks the end of the worst 3 consecutive days I've currently experienced. I feel so much better now, with everything clean, the little ones being taken good care of, the big ones quarantined with test results that will be ready in a couple of days. Laying down in fresh linens, windows open with a beautiful night outside. I feel so at ease - calm enough that I can get back to the dirty business of diamond shopping! :lol:
 
HOLY COW!!! JG, you must be EXHAUSTED!! yikes -- you are amazing! Just listing all you've done - both for the kittens and for cleaning - you are a miracle lady!!!

Take some time off - sit outside, enjoy the diamond fantasizing, enjoy your health returning to normal, enjoy just "being still" for a few hours...{{{{BIG SUPER HUG}}}} to you!!

and thanks for all the details in your update - yes indeed, being in microbiology truly IS a blessing right now!!
 
Wow, I continue to be impressed with your commitment to these babies. I can't believe the vet wanted to put them all down immediately, either. If they're doing well enough now and have a chance to improve, I can't imagine why she would push euthanasia. Hugs to you and I'm so glad you're feeling better.
 
Gosh, JG, what an ordeal!! For kitties and you. I too would cross that vet off my list. What did she expect you to do -- put down every animal in your house? For pete's sake! Having had brief exchanges with vets (& human doctors) who go off the rails, I can picture how amazed you must have been, hearing her. Sheesh.

I'm exhausted reading about all your cleaning -- that would put me to sleep for 13 days, not hours. You're angel material, girl.

Hoping the best for the litttle guys -- sounds like a very sensible way to handle their treatment. I so hope they make it! And that everybody else stays healthy & bouncing around. Keep us informed, ok?

--- Laurie

Edit -- all those 't's" in littttttle were because a cat is licking my fingers as I write.
 
Sending lots of Kitty/animal/people dust...you've really been through a lot!

I hope everyone continues to get better.
 
Wow - how in the world did you make it through all that cleaning while being under the weather yourself? I hope you get another several nights of good long rest and lots of yummy food. Thinking of you!
 
dust dust dust!
 
Much dust to you and Filly and Jockey.

Have you heard of giving Lactoferrin (I believe its origin is Bovine colostrum) as a supplement? I'm a member of a support group for cats that are FIV+. I give Wellington 250 mg every day in his food to help with inflammation of the gut and of the mouth. It is pretty amazing stuff. I use the Jarrow Brand and the Symbiotic Brand. http://fivtherapy.com/lactoferrin.htm
 
JG

Sending you and the little ones dust, dust, dust.

You have done an amazing job with the kitties and I know you have been to hell and back as a result. Hang in there. I think you are amazing for all that you have done and will continue to do. You should take great pride in that.

:wavey:
 
I'm sending dust your way but I wish I could send more! I think you are AMAZING for doing what you are doing! It must be so stressful and you are holding up so well! I'm hoping Filly and the other kittens test results come back with a positive light and the alarmist down the streets knows she won't be getting any more business from you!
 
Another update: the kitties are alive and growing. News from the carer with the two smallest, Filly and Jockey, says they're up to 635 grams (Jockey, from 510 on Saturday), and 557 grams (Filly, from 473 on Saturday). My two here are doing very, very well - running, playing, eating like monsters. Exacta is up to 865 grams, from 750 on Saturday, and Derby is up to 735 grams, from 655 on Saturday. Kittens usually grow 15 grams/day on average, so they're all doing much more than that (and so they should - at this age they should all be around 1200-1400 grams).

The two here, Exacta and Derby, both grew Salmonella in their poo. I'm not as concerned about it now that I've spoken with my micro reg and clinical microbiologist. It's something that we'll deal with if we get it - which we more than likely won't. In all likelihood, they've had it for a couple of weeks at least, and if any of us were going to get sick, it would have already happened. The only source I can think of is some raw BARF food that I gave them a couple of weeks ago in a desperate attempt to get them to gain some weight. I *think* they probably had a parasitic infection, leading to their slow weight gain and low blood count, and then I fed them raw meat that must have had a Salmonella bacterial load in it. :nono: Or perhaps my husband even tracked some into the house from work. You never know. Nearly 20% of cats and 30% of dogs are non-symptomatic Salmonella carriers anyway, so there's even a chance they caught it off one of our other pets.

Regardless, I've brought home copious amounts of 70% alcohol for disinfecting, the kittens are still being kept to themselves, and I'm going to get the carpet in their room ripped out and replaced as soon as they are absolutely healthy and have normal poo. Other than that, I feel like I've won the Christmas lotto. Kittens who are, despite still having runny number twos (probably a result of the rich kitten formula I'm feeding them for weight gain), playing like kittens and eating like teenagers. :))
 
Wow, Ginger, major Christmas gifts, all the kitties! You too, to them. Wonderful news & so great to hear the 2 little sickies are doing so very well -- much success in their future, obviously. After an annoying run-up to Christmas & likely afterward (I'll vent later when I have time), this is JUST the kind of great news to hear!! :appl: :appl: Thanks!!

--- Laurie
 
YIPPEE!! JG that is fantastic news!! so happy to hear about the Christmas miracle recovery!!! What a relief - enjoy them now as they grow stronger and healthier with each day - how wonderful!!!
 
That is very good news! Keep those babies growing!
 
Wonderful news! I hope they continue to strengthen and grow!
 
Ginger - I'm just catching up on all the updates now!

How's Bella? I'm so glad the antibiotics put a quick stop to the worst of it! Is the remainder of your menagerie okay? And how are Filly and Jockey?


I hope Christmas dinner with the family went decently! That sounds very stressful - I know I'd be a right bear if I was as short on sleep as you seem to be these days :sick: well, I suppose you've at least got sparkly daydreams for company ::)
 
Wow, your last post is really upbeat and promising. Your commitment is staggering and the Cat World should make you their Queen. Copious amounts of alcohol (and not the drinking kind) and tearing up carpeting - good luck and good on you! :appl: :appl:
 
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