Feline Mast Cell Tumor -- What to do?

[divergrrl]

My kitty was diagnosed y''day with Feline Mast Cell Tumor. (round fatty looking thing behind her ear)

I went into the vet, and they said I needed surgery asap & while I was at it, all these other service, dental, calcuim workup,etc (cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching). By the time I left I had one helluva vet bill. I am supposed to schedule the surgery next week....

My cat is 11 years old & acting fine.

My dear friend, who spends more$$ on her high maintenance & always sick dogs came over to look at the tumor last night. It''s just like the ones her dog gets. (Mast Cell in dogs is b.a.d. and cats aren''t affected the same) She had an appt with a veterinary oncologist about them last week since her dog has had numerous surgeries. He told her in an old pet, its best to leave it be. This is an ONCOLOGIST.

So I''m wondering...does anyone have experience with this in CATS? I''m the type of person who will not spend exorbitant amounts of $$ on uneccessary pet surgeries on old pets. I know it sounds heartless, but spending 3k in 3months on an old diabetic cat who I had to put down anyway cured me of that. I''m more for keeping them comfy & euthanizing them when they start failing.

I also have a 3k Labor & Delivery bill looming in 3 months that I will have to pay. My own insurance, even though DH works for a huge company & has good bennies, doesn''t cover the whole thing.

I refuse to put this stuff on a credit card because that''s how you get sucked into debt & as a SAHM/one income family, I cannot allow us to get caught up in that...there is always SOME emergency.

I mean, if she needs it, she''ll get it...I just won''t be able to do some of the repairs we were going to do on the house before the baby came, and I guess we can eat mac & cheese/ramen for the next few months.

I''m just pissed. I feel like vets are always upselling their services & creating fear. (the oncologist told my friend this as well). Its just bad timing.

Diver

 

[divergrrl]

http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/39/4/452

This link makes it sound like what my friend''s oncologist said. The tumors don''t really do anything. My vet did suggest starting benadryl for now.

Diver

 

[oshinbreez]

I wouldn''t do it. I feel the same way about surgery for older pets. And with your new baby coming, you need the $ for the baby.

 

[divergrrl]

Ohsin: I know, I know, but I just love her so much...she''s my "baby" too ya know.

I guess it doesn''t hurt to get 2nd vet opinions via the phone & call that oncologist. I feel terrible because if it were my dog, I''d do it without thinking. But that is only because my dog is a baby....3....if she were older, I''d have the same dilemma.

Arghh.

Diver

 

[oshinbreez]

I know how pets are your "babies". Ours are too.

Our outside dog died about a month ago. Our inside dog, is David''s baby. He''s had her 12 years since she was a pup. Wiggy has a tumor on her chest. We''d discussed surgery for her, but David decided that with her advanced age, it wouldn''t be worth it. He''d hate to spend all the $ and then her die within a year or 2 anyway. He knows it''s only a matter of time, but as long as she isn''t in pain and is active, we''re leaving it alone.

Now, Comet (my cat) is only 6. If he had the same problem, I think we''d probably do it.

It won''t hurt to get a second and even 3rd opinion.

 

[divergrrl]

Oh thank you Oshin...you sound like you have a lot of experience with similar situations. It''s nice to hear from another pet owner who''s been there. I always get so guilt riddled about these things. I appreciate your input & hope that you & your hubby are ok....(I read your other thread) ...

Thank you

Diver

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Diver, I understand the conflict as well. I was speaking with an older gentleman the other day and he was talking about his dogs and the fact that they never go to the vet except for the rabies shots and they are as healthy as can be. He said up until 20 or 30 years ago, it was unheard of to have all this elaborate pet health care. Just because it is available, it makes us feel guilty if we don''t do everything the vet says. I have read a lot online about how not all vaccinations are necessary every year, and that some of the services are a racket. There is even some evidence that over vaccinating can be harmful. I am in agreement that I will not try to extend an older pet''s life if their quality of life wouldn''t be very good. Let me just add that we have huge vet bills for a younger bulldog who has allergies, so we support our vet''s lifestyle plenty as it is. I love my pets but I try to use common sense to determine what is necessary and what is not when it comes to animal health care and not be intimidated by the person who will profit greatly from the recommendations.

 

[oshinbreez]

Thanks again Diver. I just wish I could be with him.

 

[bee*]

As a vet student, I have worked in many practices and I think that a lot of times, vets will try to add in extras such as dentals etc, once they put an animal under general anaesthetic. If your cat is not bothered by the tumour, then I would leave it. They don''t affect cats the same way that the affect dogs. Even though Im training to be a vet, I will not put my pets under the stress of an operation unless I know that it is going to have a good effect on her. I still remember the case of one of the dogs that I was treating in the clinic and she was having chemotherapy, which would only realistically extend her life for about a year, but the dog was in the clinic for so many days and weeks having the treatment. All I could think is that I would much rather have my dog happy at home for a few months and do all her favourite walks, give her her favourite meals and spoil her, than have her miserable,vomiting and nauseous in a vets clinic getting treatment for something that was only going to extend her life for a little while anyway. Although at 13 your cat should have another good few years left so I would definitely go for a second opinion, and if she does need to have an operation to remove it, advise them that you are not going to opt for the dental etc.

 

[divergrrl]

Bee: thanks for the input! I appreciate hearing from someone who is famiiar with veterinary medicine. I am not wanting to discredit the community at all, but am just stressed out because of timing etc. I know that vets are hardworking & do great things to keep our pets healthy, but it can get confusing at times for those of us who are on the other side of the exam table.

I need to get both of my pets teeth cleaned, but had that mentally bookmarked for next Feb...(which I think coincides with pet dental health month...every vet office around here seems to offer 20% off...so for my 2 animals, that''s a good savings). I know the vet wanted to kill 2 birds with one stone by just doing the teeth as long as she had my cat under (thereby reducing the need to use general again anytime soon)...but I just wonder if my kitty is just aging & starting to grow stuff on her head.

I think I''m just going to make my calls tomorrow & keep an eye on it.

Thank you!

diver

 

[sumbride]

My cat had a mast cell tumor as well, which we had biopsied just to find out that was all it was. If you know that''s what it is, I agree that you should leave it be.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Having seen *people* suffer through chemo, I can''t imagine making my pets suffer through it. Minor surgery, ok, but surgery is also very painful, and pets don''t have a morphine drip they can use at will!

So I would get a second opinion, and if it''s truly minor and will extend her life/quality of life, do it, but make sure you let them know you want no sneaky extra charges.

 

[Lorelei]

I just wanted to add that one of my cats had chemo for 4 years and he coped amazingly well with it and no visible side effects. It didn't interfere with his quality of life and it did extend his time with us, I would do it again definitely as long as the animal was coping well with it. Often you can't tell until you try. I wasn't writing this to say what you should do Diver, just as someone who has done chemo and seen how well a cat has coped with it for anyone who may be considering it. Animals apparently in many cases can cope with chemo far better than humans, our cat used to have to stay at the vets for a morning a month, I would pick him up, we would get home, he would have something to eat, then a sleep then back to normal! This was my experience anyway.

 

[divergrrl]

Loreilei....thanks..but my situation is very different, my cat doesn''t need chemo--just a surgical excision of a tumor that usually doesn''t cause any trouble...so why do it? I absolutely cannot/will not put a pet through chemo. Its not right for "our" situation, KWIM? (single family income, 1 kid with baby on the way). I don''t believe in chemo for pets anyway. That''s just my stand on it for my animals, but I understand everyone has differing feelings & that''s ok.

Like I said...the reason I''m waffling is because she''s old & I don''t believe the tumor is aggressive. All my reading is that in cats, the ones in the skin don''t really do much & commonly show up at 11 years. Even if it was highly cancerous, I''d let it be & let her have a comfortable life. I''ve paid through the nose to "save" a sick cat before & it was just heartbreaking. She would have been so much better had I just put her down at the first diabetic episode...but I didn''t know & I had her for so long, she was my baby....her suffering was horrific...insulin shots in her stomach twice a day....never again, thank you.

She''s fine right now....but I am calling a veterinary oncologist today for advice, I figure second opinions can''t hurt & I owe it to my kitty to do a little due diligence that isn''t just reading random stuff off the net (a very sketchy source of reliable information in my opinion). I am also calling another clinic that is supposed to be more reasonable & getting a quote from them too...in case I decide to go ahead.

I do love her, but I have limits, both financial & emotional regarding what I can do for an elderly pet.

Diver

 

[FireGoddess]

Diver, I haven''t been in your position yet, but I think about it all the time! I know you want the best for your furbaby.

One thing to mention regarding the teeth cleaning...if you choose to go forward with the surgery you may want to do the dental at the same time if you can in any way squeeze it in - for an 11 yo kitty they usually require bloodwork prior to the dental and an IV during the dental which adds up to $$ more than a younger cat''s fees. Most of the cost of my 11 yo kitty''s dental work was the bloodwork and the peripherals necessary because she''s older, not the actual cleaning itself!

Whatever you decide, hugs to you!!!

 

[Cind11]

Hi,

My cat Phantom had a mast cell tumor about four years ago. It was below his neck. We had it removed which wasn''t very expensive at all. (can''t quite remember) He hasn''t had a problem since then. (knock on wood) We didn''t have to go through any chemo or anything like that. Why couldn''t it just be removed? You wouldn''t necessarily have to go through anything else especially if it hasn''t spread.

 

[divergrrl]

Cind, one reason is because the surgery is expensive. I don't know what you consider "inexpensive" (since we all have different thresholds depending on our household incomes...our is one income since I'm a stay at home momma) but I'm expecting a child in September & have to buy things like double strollers, car seats, etc. Not to mention a HUGE copay & deductible due in September (can you say $3k at least?).

My other reason is that my cat is old. Some schools of thought maintain that the tumor in an old cat is fine left alone. So why would I spend money I need for other very pressing things if I don't have to? If she just "old" and this thing is just going to sit there and do nothing...why spend over $800 on it if its not neccessary?

That's my thing...if its not neccessary, I can't afford to spend the money. If she's going to die in a year, then I'd consider doing it---I feel like vets create this fear & urgency when it doesn't need to be there.

FWIW, "my" inexpensive would have been $200 - $250. That I could afford right now. My kids can ride in a used stroller instead of a new one. I'm not adverse to making sacrifices, just not if its not neccessary.

Diver

 

[Cind11]

Hi divergrrl,

I didn''t mean to offend you. My cat''s surgery was under $200. The tumor was tiny and very easy to remove. But I was told that it could spread so that is why we had it taken off. Since cats can live well into their teens, it seemed like a necessary thing. Eleven years old isn''t really that old for an indoor cat. My brother-in-law has an 18 yr. old cat right now and had two of his cats live to 18 and 19 yrs. old.

Maybe you should get another opinion?

 

[divergrrl]

Cind, Its ok...this whole thing is just really upsetting to me. Sometimes I feel like the town I live in overcharges for everything. (Dentists, doctors, etc..all charge more here because its a nice burb & there''s a lot of money)

I''ve been trying to get second opinions, but unfortunately, they all want me to bring her in...to the tune of $150 a pop. FRIG! I mean really...a freakin'' mast cell tumor is a freakin'' mast cell tumor--I asked if I could email a pic...NOOOO. I asked if I could forward the email estimate from my vet, NOOOOOO. It''s highly infuriating. I mean, its like pouring gasoline on money. I already spent $150 last week for them to "look" at it for crying out loud.

I am so burnt out, stressed/upset that I can have such a headache these last few days. The pregnancy hormones don''t help either

I think I''m hardly what one would refer to as "rational" about the whole thing. My DH is leaving it up to me, (gee thanks) but he thinks we should leave it. One of the veterinary students who replied to me said I could leave it. What I''ve read about it is, while it can spread, in cats it doesn''t often. Its when you get one in dogs that its bad. They act differently in each species.

Ok..where''s my winning lotto ticket?

Diver

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/11/2007 12:56:59 PM
Author: divergrrl
Loreilei....thanks..but my situation is very different, my cat doesn''t need chemo--just a surgical excision of a tumor that usually doesn''t cause any trouble...so why do it? I absolutely cannot/will not put a pet through chemo. Its not right for ''our'' situation, KWIM? (single family income, 1 kid with baby on the way). I don''t believe in chemo for pets anyway. That''s just my stand on it for my animals, but I understand everyone has differing feelings & that''s ok.

Like I said...the reason I''m waffling is because she''s old & I don''t believe the tumor is aggressive. All my reading is that in cats, the ones in the skin don''t really do much & commonly show up at 11 years. Even if it was highly cancerous, I''d let it be & let her have a comfortable life. I''ve paid through the nose to ''save'' a sick cat before & it was just heartbreaking. She would have been so much better had I just put her down at the first diabetic episode...but I didn''t know & I had her for so long, she was my baby....her suffering was horrific...insulin shots in her stomach twice a day....never again, thank you.

She''s fine right now....but I am calling a veterinary oncologist today for advice, I figure second opinions can''t hurt & I owe it to my kitty to do a little due diligence that isn''t just reading random stuff off the net (a very sketchy source of reliable information in my opinion). I am also calling another clinic that is supposed to be more reasonable & getting a quote from them too...in case I decide to go ahead.

I do love her, but I have limits, both financial & emotional regarding what I can do for an elderly pet.

Diver

Sorry Diver, I wasn''t suggesting that chemo was apt in your case, it was another post where I was just responding to it with my experience of having a cat who went through chemo and didn''t suffer any ill effects. Sorry for any confusion!

 

[laine]

Wow, $150 just to look at the lump!

My cat was recently vaccinated and ended up developing a lump at the vaccine site, which can either be a normal reaction that will go away, or a fast growing tumor (much less likely). I took him to the vet to be checked out (for $27). The vet suggested the most conservative course of action would be to have it removed. I asked if we had anything to lose by waiting a week to see if it would go away, she agreed that was fine, and a week later, the lump is almost gone.

I know this isn''t the same sort of lump, but could you call your original vet and see if you have anything to lose by waiting? I have to say, if it were me, I would trust the internet info that a mast cell tumor isn''t a big deal and not subject my poor old cat to surgery, though I would keep an eye on it and watch for changes.

On a completely unrelated note, are dental cleaning really necessary? In all the cats my family has had, we''ve never had their teeth cleaned and they all still have their teeth. I try to buy the tarter control treats and I feed dry food, and I''ve considered buying the kitty toothpaste and doing it myself, but paying the vet to do it (and subjecting the cat to anesthesia--i had no idea they did that) just seems unnecessary.

I grew up with outdoor cats who rarely went to the vet and were perfectly healthy. They all went to the vet to be fixed and for occasional rabies vaccines (but not annual, my parents were slackers on that one) and one went in when he was injured in a fight (maybe raccoon?) and occasionally for worms. The cats were all healthy and lived long lives, so I start to question the necessity of some of these vet procedures (not fixing and rabies vaccines, I agree those are essential, but the others, I think I''ll skip).

 

[sumbride]

My vet specifically told me that mast cell tumors weren''t a big deal and they would come more often in older cats, so your kitty is likely to have another one at some point. If it isn''t life threatening (it isn''t!) then leave it alone. It won''t make a difference to your cat.

As for dental... I do think the vets get a little overzealous on these, but tooth problems can lead directly to kidney problems. If your cat has an especially nasty smell coming from its mouth, it''s time for a dental. If the teeth look a little plaquey... well, I wouldn''t bother. My cat Lucy had rotten teeth when we got her from poor nutrition as a kitten. Funny, they told me she didn''t eat much in her foster home. She breathed on me and I recoiled! It was AWFUL. She had 7 rotten teeth removed and immediately became a happier cat and gained 4 pounds over the next month because, as it turned out, she DID like food... she just hadn''t been comfortable eating before. Since then, her teeth have been fine. And her breath is sweet. She gets greenies, but I haven''t tried to brush her teeth.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 6/13/2007 12:01:08 PM
Author: sumbride
As for dental... I do think the vets get a little overzealous on these, but tooth problems can lead directly to kidney problems. If your cat has an especially nasty smell coming from its mouth, it''s time for a dental. If the teeth look a little plaquey... well, I wouldn''t bother. My cat Lucy had rotten teeth when we got her from poor nutrition as a kitten. Funny, they told me she didn''t eat much in her foster home. She breathed on me and I recoiled! It was AWFUL. She had 7 rotten teeth removed and immediately became a happier cat and gained 4 pounds over the next month because, as it turned out, she DID like food... she just hadn''t been comfortable eating before.

In older cats dental can be particularly important, as sumbride said. Chloe had to have 1 tooth removed, and a few others are showing some early signs of the same impending issue.

 

[divergrrl]

Loreilei...ahh I get it...

gotcha..glad your pet did well, its nice to hear the good experiences.

Laine: Yeah, can you believe the charges for an exam? A well pet exam with vaccinations & flea meds always seems to run me about $200-$250. Crazy. I live in Portland, OR which is like a baby SanFrancisco & housing etc. is getting ridiculous. Everything is expensive here. Taxes, groceries, etc...


What confuses me is that 2.5 years ago it only cost me $250 to get my dog spayed. Why is major abdominal surgery involving the removal of major organs cheaper than cutting a tumor off the surface of a cat''s skin?

Sumbride: I do believe dental health is important, it can prevent heart disease etc. I don''t do it every year, but as soon as I notice some tartar buildup they go in. I don''t like to put them under too much. Both my pets let me muck with their mouths. (can you picture me brushing my german shepherd''s teeth? LOL). My cat doesn''t like it, so I don''t do it that often....she''s definitely a challenge & I get the bejesus clawed out of my arms....)

Update: I have an email into my vet asking what happens if we wait. I also called another clinic who can do it cheaper & am going to tell them if they want to keep our business, I''ll let them match the price, otherwise I am going to switch clinics. (across the river and into a less affluent zipcode--amazing what 2 miles will do). I also got the number of an oncology clinic my friend uses (finally) and I am calling the oncologist about this. Get the specialists opinion seems to be the best course of action.


I just want to cry every time Simone climbs in my lap. She loves me sooo much & I her. Stupid clinic & their highway robbin'' ways.

Diver

 

[rainbowtrout]

If anyone is interested I wanted to mention that the way FI and I cope with pet expenses (we can''t afford hundreds of dollars, period) is pet insurance. 13 dollars per month, per cat, and it doesnt cover routine checkups but it does cover any illness and all care needed to take care of the illness.

 

[divergrrl]

Who do you use for your insurance Rainbow? I looked into it for my dog, (when she was born, cheaper to get in at the beginning of their life) but was shocked at what wasn''t covered.

I''m sure my kitty is too old, but its worth another look for my dog/future pets.

Diver

 

[rainbowtrout]

I''ll ask, FI handles it.