Feedback Please on Euopean Brilliant in Vintage Tiffany Setting

[hetty]

Hi Everyone,

I recently came across this ring at an estate jewelry dealer and fell in love with it. Up to this point I had only been looking only at asschers and so therefore I know very little about any other cuts and how to judge their quality. The dealer told me that although it is stated on the GIA cert as a round brilliant, it is technically a "European Brilliant" (it''s clearly not cut like a modern round brilliant). It''s a Tiffany ring (estate/antique) with the original stone and platinum setting. I''m not sure when the piece was made and have requested that info of the dealer. I''m looking for any advice or feedback regarding the quality of the diamond cut. Also the dealer is asking $13k and is willing to discount it 10% which would bring the price to $12,150. Does this seem like a fair price? I tried looking up the specs on pricescope but given it''s an older cut and it has a vintage Tiffany setting I didn''t know how to compare the two. Any info and opinions would be much appreciated!

The GIA Specs and Pics of the ring are below.

Thanks!
Hetty

 

[hetty]

front view of ring

 

[hetty]

Side View

 

[hetty]

another Side View

 

[Rowan]

Holy Moley!!! That is one gorgeous ring!!! I couldn't say about the price, though, because I have no idea, but wow, what a ring!!!

 

[reena]

yeah: i have no clue, but if you don't want it, i've got first dibs.

 

[ame]

BUY IT! Oh dear god if I could swing that much Id be wearing that now, regardless of whether its Tiffany.

 

[Diamondsbybree]

It is beautiful! I wouldn't hesitate~!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Wow. Gorgeous ring.

It has a classic Art Deco look, circa 1920-1930. The thing you have to watch out for here is that there's a ton of reproductions mimicking this period. The diamond has an authentic look for the era, but if the mounting is a reproduction instead of a genuine Tiffany, then you've got a big difference in value.

Reproductions are easily spotted by an experienced appraiser examining the manufacture, workmanship & condition of the ring and the style of cutting of the small diamonds.

The diamond has a high crown and slightly shallow pavilion, with wide pavilion main facets. This usually makes for a diamond which majors on colored light return (fire) and minors on white light return (brilliance). Using an IdealScope would help out a lot in viewing this performance.

If the ring is genuine Tiffany, the price is good. If it is a reproduction, the price is fair, but not a steal.

I would suggest purchasing it with "right of return" if it doesn't appraise out to your satisfaction with an independent appraiser. I also would make sure the dealer writes that it is genuine Tiffany on the invoice. If he's not willing to do that, then see if he'll give you a further break on price.

Tiffany or not, it appears to be gorgeous.

 

[sparkler29]

WOW that is an absolutely gorgeous ring. I say, go for it! If it truly is an original Tiffany ring (both stone & setting), it is a piece of history and is beautiful to boot! I especially love the look of the stone..

 

[Robyn12]

That ring is beautiful! I have seen similar antique Tiffany rings for up to 70K, so I'd agree that if it is authentic, that is a very good price.

If it's authentic, I'd say go for it. If you get it appraised and find our it's a reproduction, I'd still consider it for that price. However, you may be able to do better price wise buying your own European cut and having a "reproduction" custom made to your tastes...

Good luck!

 

[glitterata]

That's gorgeous. Old European Cuts are my favorite diamonds, and that looks like a great one.

Get it appraised, just to make sure. I would use Dave Atlas, who posts on this board--he's an expert in old diamonds.

 

[Hest88]

Yowza! That's so gorgeous!

 

[hetty]

Thanks for all of the info/feedback everyone. Here is a shot of the signature on the ring. I also just got an email back from the dealer regarding the age of the ring: The ring was made in the late 20's by Tiffany...the ring is engraved "EFG to MHW 4-16-30"...so my guess is 1928 ish.

I've looked into contacting the Tiffany archives but they charge $500 for looking up info on a piece which seems a bit hefty to me. Any opinions on the signature?

 

[reena]

hi,

wouldn't a qualified appraiser be able to give you his educated opinion as to whether it is authentic tiffany without having to go thru tiffany and pay the fee?

personally, i think you should snatch it up even if it turns out its vintage wal-mart. it is so gorgeous ive actually lost feeling in my limbs.

 

[hetty]

I found the ring at Nelson Rarities. My boyfriend and I have decided to purchase it as they have a guaranteed satisfaction policy where you can get a full refund. This way it will allow me and my boyfriend to get a good look at it and possibly have it appraised. Has anyone purchased from Nelson Rarities before - from what I can tell they seem to be a reputable store.

Does the fact that it from Nelson Rarities help make the purchase seem like a good deal? Can I safely assume that they would sell me the real thing (Tiffany) as opposed to a great reproduction? I've never dealt with them before so I'm truly asking for your opinions or anyone else who has heard of or dealt with them.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me with this exciting and important purchase!!!!

 

[KBerly]

Sorry I am late in responding! Glad to see you and your boyfriend have decided to purchase it. It is absolutely gorgeous

 

[glitterata]

Go for it, Hetty.

I've never dealt with Nelson Rarities, but they have a good reputation on this and other boards. If they have a good return policy, you can have the ring checked out by a qualified independent appraiser after you buy it and return it if you're not satisfied with the opinion.

My gut says it's genuinely old, not a modern reproduction. Who would bother to engrave a reproduction with somebody's initials and give it a fake date back in 1930?

It's clear from the pictures that it's high quality workmanship, a heavenly diamond, and a smashing design.

I suppose it's possible that someone took a high quality antique ring and gave it a fake Tiffany's stamp, but that seems like paranoia. I doubt Nelson Rarities would risk ruining their reputation that way, and it seems unlikely that they'd be taken in by such a trick, either.

I could be all wrong, of course--that's why you want to make sure you have it appraised.

It's heavenly! heavenly! you lucky thing.

PS: I love your name. Is it short for Henrietta?

 

[hetty]

Thanks Glitterata and others! We will be sure to have it appraised as I'm paranoid about getting a fair deal. I also trust Nelson Rarities in that they wouldn't sell us a fake, and that since they specialize in antique jewelry that they wouldn't be fooled by it either. But, the appraisal is key. Once I get it checked out I'll be sure to post my findings. Has anyone else had experience purchasing from Nelson Rarities? They are giving us 30 days to have it checked out and have been really great in terms of customer service.

P.S. Glitterata, my real name is Heather

 

[glitterata]

Heather? Even better.

 

[Stephan]

A nice FIC... with big arrows...

 

[Hest88]

I've never dealt with them but Nelson Rarities from what I know has a good reputation. With a piece like this we couldn't really tell what it would be worth since we have nothing to compare it too. We'd have to track down the last time a ring of this design and approximately this size sold and much it went for. If it's fairly singular it would be worth whatever the market could bear.

Either way, I wouldn't have hesitated to snatch it up if I'd seen it and been able to afford it!

 

[glitterata]

All this discussion sent me browsing at Nelson Rarities. If anybody's wondering what to give me for my birthday, that demantoid frog brooch on the Edwardian page would do. If Hest snaps it up first, you can get me the diamond-and-demantoid swallow brooch on the same page.

Oh, what lovely things they have. Sigh.

 

[hetty]

I just had a question come up from an someone regarding the polish of the stone. He had asked me if when the stone had been taken out of its setting, when it was sent to the GIA for grading, had it also been repolished. He said it was unusual for a 1920-30's stone to have a "Very Good" polish rating. Any thoughts on this? Also, would a good appriaser be able to tell whether the stone was the original one from the setting? Nelson Rarities claims it is the original stone and cited the fact that due to its G color and VVS1 clarity grade it is typical of Tiffany standards. I'm inclined to believe them, but this question of polish threw me off. Any thoughts?

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 8/20/2004 10:36:22 AM hetty wrote:


Any thoughts?----------------

It is unusual enough to find a high color&clarity old cut, so why not "very good" polish. if it was on old mine cut I would be amazed, but this is more recent, so precise finish is not a miracle, as far as I know.

Of course, it could be that Nelson Rarities had the diamond removed for grading (but they do know the value of keeping pieces authentic, right?). Or that the previous owner could have this done, but, unless the setting has been affected by this operatioon more than by wear, how could one know?

At worst, this grade is not glaring evidence of anything.

It is not trivia at all to certify 100% the provenance of a ring like this. It would be nice to have Tiffany's identification, to be sure and I could hardly think of a better way to certify this ring. As is, the setting looks incredibly well made, the diamond of unusually fine make and the piece nice enough to be a cruel headache to duplicate now.

Just my 0.2, of course.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

This is an amazing ring. . . I'm confused though why the "Ti" is missing from the Tiffany brand stamped in the ring shank. Can someone explain this??? Was the inside carved out later to make the diamonds more sparkily or am I just missing something very obvious?

Michelle

 

[glitterata]

I wondered about that, too, Michelle. It's possible it was done during a repair.

My grandmother's engagement ring from the same period (1929) no longer has any of its stamps intact. When my mom first gave it to me, it had part of what the appraiser guessed was probably Irid Plat, or maybe 100 Irid 900 Plat (which is what Grandma's wedding band says), but the rest of the engagement ring's stamps had vanished over the years when she had it resized. I had the gallery repaired (60+ years of rubbing against her wedding ring had worn it out in places) and now all that's left of the stamp is the initial I (or 1, whichever it is).

It seems unlikely that Tiffany's would leave off part of their stamp. But it also seems unlikely that a fake would have such a careless stamp, too. My guess is that it happened somehow during a repair.

 

[hetty]

I found out the answer regarding the polish. After Nelson Rarities purchased the ring, they had the stone polished before sending it to the GIA. As for the missing portion of the Tiffany name, I believe that most likely happened during a sizing or repair. When I do get it re-sized I am going to try to touch as little as possible of the remaining portion of the name.

hetty

 

[Hest88]

Yeah, the missing letters actually convinced me more than the ring is authentic. I'd bet it happened during a re-sizing. No fake would deliberately leave off the letters.

 

[Daniela]

Just chiming in to say that this ring is STUNNING and I can't wait to see further pictures of it. I am sooo jealous!