Federal Income Tax

[Rank Amateur]

It just ain''t right. I never thought I''d see the day when I would complain about not paying enough in tax.

You see, my wife and I are both professionals, though she works just one day a week. We earn a decent wage. We live in a nice suburban home, but have not mortgaged ourselves to the hilt. We pay what seems like a lot in property tax and we give a decent chunk away to charity.

So tell me, why am I on the dole? These politicians, falling all over themselves to get the vote of people with kids, have gone too far. $1000 a kid kickback? Is this necessary? PLUS the $3050 deduction for each? In the end, we are going to get back *more* than we paid in federal tax. My Federal tax liability is zero, zippo, zilch. In fact, the $1000 credits will actually give as more back than we paid in. It ain''t right. There oughta be a law. Yes, we have the four kids, but there should be a limit. More specifically, the limits that do exist are too generous. The AMT for me is zero, and my AGI is not so high my itemized deductions are limited. It''s crazy.

Maybe I''m missing something. I dunno. I''ll take your money, but I feel a little dirty doing it!

R/A

 

[strmrdr]

Ill take it if you dont want it.

I could live a lot better with the 62% of my income that goes to taxes.
Yea thats right 62% I was bored so figured it out.
fed income, state income, sales tax, rent to cover property taxes, car fees, social insecurity, and everything else the goverment steals from me at gunpoint is 62% of my income.
Heck I could even afford medical insuurace if they didnt steal it.

Seriosly I dont want your money but consider giving it to a charity of your choice. Atleast you will get to pick how it is spent and Im sure you could do a better job of it than washington does.

 

[fire&ice]

don't get me started.

 

[hoorray]

RA -- won't you even have to pay alternative minimum tax? We've gotten hit by that a couple of times lately.....

 

[Rank Amateur]

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On 2/10/2004 11:05:20 AM lop wrote:

RA -- won't you even have to pay alternative minimum tax? We've gotten hit by that a couple of times lately.....----------------

I checked the AMT and it came to "zero".

F&I - I bet you guys get hammered!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 2/10/2004 5:18:52 PM Rank Amateur wrote:

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On 2/10/2004 11:05:20 AM lop wrote:


F&I - I bet you guys get hammered!

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Yep, some years worse than others. It's all the "exceptions & limitations" that get me. And, it burns my butt that people actually think the more you make, the less taxes you pay. That is truly laughable.

The second house has helped - but goes to issue of what sense some of this makes some sense. For example, the more your mortgage is - the more interest you will pay - ultimately the more you can deduct. Isn't that kind of feeding into Americans taking on more debt?

I'm very glad they did away with deducting consumer debt interest. BUT - I can not fathom why you can not deduct college tuition (although I believe there are some things one can do now). Isn't a better educated society a better wage earning society - and a better tax paying society?

Also, I simply do not understand why I must pay the same tax % that my husband does. Makes no sense. At least in VA, they have adjusted the marriage penalty somewhat - but not the IRS.

...see what I mean.....don't get me started.

But, we have it better here than in some other countries.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Well, how do you think my husband and I feel? We are "DINKS" (double income, no kids) I don't get any "credits" for pooping out offspring. Now, before you jump allover me, I happen to think raising children is an enormous responsibility and the most important job one could have, one that is not valued enough by many people.... That is why we have held off, becasue we aren't sure we have 100% to give.

But, we hemorrhage money to the government, the schools in which we have no kids, the social welfare agancies to take care of other people's kids.... I can't stand it.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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But, we hemorrhage money to the government, the schools in which we have no kids, the social welfare agancies to take care of other people's kids.... I can't stand it.

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Hey, I have kids and I can't stand it either. What bothers me is that we pay a ton of taxes and yet have no say about issues such as whether or not schools should be making pop and candy available to kids in vending machines, whether or not PE is STILL offered, and whether or not recess IS available, etc. We're creating obese, inactive kids that our tax dollars will later be supporting through all the additional medical needs that will be required and there's nothing than can be done to stop this because providing physical activies has become TOO EXPENSIVE to offer!

We'll probably send our boys to private school so we'll end up paying for their education twice over

Michelle

 

[daboyzmomi]

That is exactly what happens to us Michelle. Our kids attend private school so we get hit both ways. Hubby went to CPA today and the amount we are having to pay is stomach wrenching when you consider we paid in what most people make in 2 years. UGH. She is recommending that we go and become a corporation so as to avoid this fiasco next year. I just hope it helps. I mean, this money is my diamond money for goodness sakes

.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Hey, Michelle I hear you. That's part of the reason we're not sure if we want kids--it's too scary.

I don't know what the answer is but we are getting fatter and sicker as a country and taking Phys Ed out of the schools is the last thing they should do. Of course, if you live in a bad area and you're worried your kid will get mugged or raped in the locker room, then maybe you don't want him/her in Gym Class. That's, of course, if you care at all... The big story around here is the poor job the social welfare agencies are doing...foster kids turning up dead, being forced to take care of dead people, you name it...becasue we've become a default society where it's the government's, the schools', and the dept. of Human Services' responsibility to raise our children. God forbid we look at why people who have no business having children are doing so, then failing at this critical task. If you DARE bring this topic up, you're a snob, bigot, and/or social elitist...

Living near NYC, we have stories EVERY DAY on the evening news about kids stabbing teachers, attacking each other, 13-yr olds sexually assualting 8 yr olds, etc. They don't know what to do next. It makes me really scared about what this country will look like in 50 years. All we pay in taxes and they still can't fix it?

Oh boy...I'll end here with a note on how this discussion is highly ironic in a forum where people--including myself--typically talk about pissing money away on diamonds.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I feel for ya Jenn. Been there done that eons ago. We got hammered big time.

Even with 3 kids, before we see the money, enough has been deducted from Hubby's paycheck to feed a Third World country. I don't feel one bit guilty getting back the few pennies we do. It's OUR money.

I, for one, would like to see school vouchers so I could take my tax dollars and my kids back to private school. The private schools offer a better education here. Our kids were 2 and 3 years ahead of their classmates when we had to take them back to public school. Better yet, make education totally Free Market. May the best schools win out! That would force every institution to perform. Private schools know it. Each and every fanny warming a seat is a paycheck! There is none of the "No Child Left Behind". You either get it or you don't but you do not hold up the rest of the class making other children wait on you. Ugh!

 

[Jennifer5973]

You're right, PQ. I went to private schools, except for one year I went to public school--1st grade. I could read three levels higher and write cursive when the public school kids were barely doing printing. The teacher was exasperated; she didn't know what to make of me. I had gone to pre-K & K in a Montessori school, the rest Catholic.

I was lucky--I had parents who could afford to send me to these schools...And who cared about what i did and where I was....There was always someone home when I got in from school, someone who wanted to know about my day, my homework, my friends... That's as big a factor as anything else--really being a good parent and caring about your kids. But the education system is our country's future--most kids go to public schools, and we need to fix them.

When I come up with the answer, I'll let everyone know.

Better yet, where is that Tiffany-Knows-best guy from the other night...he seemed to know everything.

Sorry-I've had too much coffee today.

 

[Kay]

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On 2/10/2004 6:08:57 PM fire&ice wrote:
I'm very glad they did away with deducting consumer debt interest. BUT - I can not fathom why you can not deduct college tuition (although I believe there are some things one can do now). Isn't a better educated society a better wage earning society - and a better tax paying society?

Also, I simply do not understand why I must pay the same tax % that my husband does. Makes no sense. At least in VA, they have adjusted the marriage penalty somewhat - but not the IRS.

...see what I mean.....don't get me started.

But, we have it better here than in some other countries. ----------------

I was quite peeved about the income limitations when they finally made student loan interest deductible. If you make over $50K (or thereabouts) you cannot deduct your student loan interest. I have a nice salary as a professional, but I also have $98K in student loans outstanding to pay for my 8 years of higher education. Mortgage interest deductions are not limited by income, and I do not think deductions for education costs/interest should be either.

As for the marriage penalty, I ran a quick calculation and figured out FI and I will be paying at least $4,000 more in federal income taxes each year once we get married -- now that's a nice wedding gift. I'm tempted to keep my own last name and just continue to report as "single" but it is not worth the audit risk.

 

[Matata]

I live in Oregon which is so notorious for the anti-tax sentiments of its residents that we were the subject of several Doonesbury cartoons this past year. Our budget deficit is currently $800 million so that means we'll have further shortening of the school year, deeper cuts to human services and public safety agencies, and increasing tuition in public higher education institutions. We just voted down a temporary 3-year state income tax increase to cover the deficit for two reasons. The first is that a lot of Oregon residents don't believe the deficit is as bad as the governor states, and the second is due to a lack of trust that the legislature would use the money responsibly. The truth will be revealed in the next few months. It's an ugly situation with no easy solution. I am deeply saddened by the repercussions to the future because of lack of investment in and access to education from K-12 through university.

 

[chris-uk04]

Not to be mean, please! Tell it to some other people! Tell it to some ski bums in Colorado. I pay income tax, medicare, social security, sales tax, gas tax, tolls, fees, phone taxes, tax on tax. I wonder if you add up all the big taxes and all the hidden taxes, how much of your salary do you pay in taxes?

No matter which party is in power, neither will the control the stem of public spending. The government solution to every problem (especially education) is to throw money at it. Democrats tax and spend and Republicans just spend.

This is the cycle: When the economy is good, the government gets a lot of revenue and spends it all and more. When the economy turns bad, the government whines about deficits and raise taxes. Then the economy turns good again and the government has even more money… of which they spend. Then the economy turns bad…

And remember this… there is no such thing as a “temporary tax”. Income tax was unconstitutional, but it was voted constitutional because “only the really rich people” were going to be taxed. Yeah, that last a few years.

 

[strmrdr]

My kids If I am blessed with any will be home schooled it is the only way I can be sure they will be well educated and safe.
I wouldn’t send my dog much less a child to the local public schools.
They might not get the latest fad overpriced crap but they will get a good education.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 2/10/2004 10:26:42 PM Kay wrote:

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On 2/10/2004 6:08:57 I was quite peeved about the income limitations when they finally made student loan interest deductible. If you make over $50K (or thereabouts) you cannot deduct your student loan interest.
--

I had no idea that student interest was subject to a cap. As I said, basically counter-productive. I don't consider consumer debt to be student loans.

As far as schools, VA is one of the few states that did not do away with "recess - PE, etc".

...And as someone who was an educator and quit - and playing the devil's advocate - quite a bit of finger pointing should be aimed at *parents*. It is not the schools responsibility to see that your children are active & not couch potatoes. It is not up to the school to teach morality. The limitations put upon teachers as to discipline is restricted. And, from experience, it's *never* the child's fault - it's always the teachers................just something to think about.

 

[Nicrez]

Can anyone explain then why Private schools in NY pay teachers A LOT less than public schools, but the public schools STILL lag so far behind?

 

[AGBF]

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On 2/11/2004 6:56:20 AM strmrdr wrote:

My kids If I am blessed with any will be home schooled it is the only way I can be sure they will be well educated and safe.

I wouldn’t send my dog much less a child to the local public schools.

They might not get the latest fad overpriced crap but they will get a good education.

----------------

strmrdr...you are a guy, right? Who will be teaching your children? My husband thought *I* should do it. I said it was *his* bright idea!

Deb, whose kid endures the local public schools

 

[Rank Amateur]

I an happy to say that my kids are safe, happy, and well educated in a public school.

Keeping with the tax theme - remeber that private schools get A LOT of tax money from the State (at last in my State). People would be surprised to find out how much!

 

[AGBF]

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On 2/11/2004 11:54:35 AM Rank Amateur wrote:

"I an happy to say that my kids are safe, happy, and well educated in a public school."



You are right to point this out, R/A. My daughter is also safe, happy, and well-educated in public school...but that is because we are lucky in where we live. Many people who have to live with public schools do not have schools like the ones my daughter has attended, great schools and right down the street.

 

[mike04456]

Folks, if you think the taxes here are bad, try moving to Canada. Or Australia. Or, God forbid, France or Sweden. Some taxpayers overseas are forking over 75% of their income to the government between income taxes, property taxes, and VAT/GST. Be thankful you live in such a laid-back society.

 

[sumi]

I just thought I should stick up for public schools. I went to public schools nearly all my life. In fact, my Dad made a specific point to send us to public school. He went to Catholic school all the way from kindergarden through high school. He hated it. (The irony is that he went to a Jesuit university for both undergrad and grad school. Go figure!)

I had a very positive experience in public schools. I don't think my education was lacking at all. It surely didn't prevent me from getting in to a top ranked university (public) and a top ranked law school (private). I think it depends on where you live. I grew up if a fairly affluent (but not super-rich) area. Our schools were great and the teachers were amazing.


MC: It was really funny to hear you refer to soda as "pop". I'm in California and we don't really call it pop. My relatives in Michigan all say pop though. I used to get a kick out that when I was kid visiting my Michigan relatives. My grandma would say "go to the basement and get yourself a pop". hah haha ha. Basements...that's another thing we don't have here in CA. Thanks for the walk down memory lane!

Jennifer: DINK! never heard that expression, but I love it. Well, my husband and I are dinks as well. It will stay that way for a loooong time. Kids are a HUGE responsibility.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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strmrdr...you are a guy, right? Who will be teaching your children? My husband thought *I* should do it. I said it was *his* bright idea!

Deb, whose kid endures the local public schools ----------------

hahaha - MANY people have suggested I home school my kids. Or I mean many homeschooling parents recommend this to me. . .lol My boys already know the four cs of diamond purchasing. What more is there to teach them?

Michelle

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Sumi,

My california friend calls pop soda also! lol It's one of the geographical phrases that differ around the country, which I find facinating since we all are subjected to the same marketing/commercials. Supposedly in a couple different states, I'm not sure which ones though, the residents call ALL pop Coke regardless if it's coca cola or diet sprite.

Michelle

 

[Jennifer5973]

hey, Sumi...I knew i liked you...Another DINK!

We have the two extremes where we live--some great public school districts where I'd not hesitate to send my kids and the ones that are just the pits...then ones that are just okay...Neighbors of ours have two kids....they went public through grammar school because that school in our area of town is nationally ranked...but the high school that serves the whole town is not so hot...so off the Catholic school they went. Shows you how you can have the two extremes in one town...and how one town can have such diverse areas.

My husband went to public schools until college & law school and he is very well educated.

 

[sumi]

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On 2/11/2004 1:00:35 PM MichelleCarmen wrote:

Supposedly in a couple different states, I'm not sure which ones though, the residents call ALL pop Coke regardless if it's coca cola or diet sprite.

Michelle----------------

I call all soda Coke regardless of whether it's Coca Cola or Pepsi.

I try not to drink too much of it though. I think it's one of the leading reasons why obesity is a problem in the US. Sooo many calories just for one small drink. But, there are times when only a cold coke will quench that thirst!

 

[strmrdr]

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On 2/11/2004 11:17:45 AM AGBF wrote:

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On 2/11/2004 6:56:20 AM strmrdr wrote:


My kids If I am blessed with any will be home schooled it is the only way I can be sure they will be well educated and safe.


I wouldn’t send my dog much less a child to the local public schools.


They might not get the latest fad overpriced crap but they will get a good education.


----------------

strmrdr...you are a guy, right? Who will be teaching your children? My husband thought *I* should do it. I said it was *his* bright idea!


Deb, whose kid endures the local public schools ----------------

Yep im a guy.

We both will,
Wife during the day, Me evenings and weekends.

 

[Jennifer5973]

----------------[/quote]

Sooo many calories just for one small drink. But, there are times when only a cold coke will quench that thirst! ----------------[/quote]


Oh my God, that's just how I feel.... Once in a while, i just NEED an ice-old Coke loaded with ice. YUM!

 

[Skyblue]

MC: It was really funny to hear you refer to soda as "pop". I'm in California and we don't really call it pop. My relatives in Michigan all say pop though. I used to get a kick out that when I was kid visiting my Michigan relatives. My grandma would say "go to the basement and get yourself a pop". hah haha ha.

LOL !! I am in Calif also but I grew up hearing the word "pop" because my mom is from WI and my dad lived part of his life in Michigan. I just did not get it when people made fun of me for saying "pop".!!

I also love the ice ice cold coke with lots of ice. I could barely stand it in Europe when they served me "pop" without ice. When I asked for ice ... more weird looks!