Federal court rules autism not caused by vaccine

[Prana]

Good point, Crasru, I agree that we just didn''t have a ''name'' for this before now, so more people are being diagnosed with this now.

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 3/13/2010 12:06:57 PM
Author:kenny
I hope this puts this to bed and all parents will get their children vaccinated against horrible diseases.

The cause of autism remains a mystery.
We are all surrounded by so many unnatural substances in modern life.
Autism could be caused by a zillion things, fire retardant in seat belts, something in plastics, or synthetic carpeting, TV exposure, electro magnetic radiation, the list is endless.
It could even be a natural product we are increasingly exposed to; lots of natural things are hazardous too like some plants and animal venom.

small snip:

More than 5,300 parents had filed claims with the vaccines court, a branch of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, seeking damages because they believed their children had developed autism as a result of vaccinations. And they reacted bitterly to Friday''s ruling.

''Find me another industry where the U.S. government defends their product in court and funds the science that exonerates them,'' said J.B. Handley, a founder of Generation Rescue in Sherman Oaks and father of a child with autism. ''The average citizen has no hope.''

Link

As a mom of 3 kids with autism, I do NOT blame the vaccines. I do not regret vaccinating my kids. The last thing I need is for my kids to get some horrible disease from not being vaccinated.

 

[softly softly]

Date: 3/14/2010 10:51:22 AM
Author: susimoo

Date: 3/14/2010 9:38:43 AM

Author: Maisie

Date: 3/14/2010 7:18:41 AM


Author: susimoo


I know that similar things have happened here in the UK. I am a believer in having children, including my own, vaccinated. What I do not want is for her to be given several vaccines at once. We decided that we would not have her vaccinated with the MMR jab and paid for separate vaccines spaced over an 18 to 24 week period. She is about to undertake her boosters before going to school.



The reason we didn''t give her the MMR? I worked with a woman whose daughter gave birth to a beautiful baby boy approx 10 years ago. He was born on the same day as a dear work colleague had her daughter. Both mums regularly came to visit us and we watched them both as they grew and developed. He was as normal a child as you could ever hope to meet. Then after the MMR there was a distinct change in his demeanor and things rapidly grew worse. He was diagnosed with autism several years later.



I am not a doctor and having read the arguments before, both for and against. In the end I could only go on what I saw with my own eyes. Indeed when I fell pregnant the grandmother urged me to vaccinate but separately, not with the MMR. All the court rulings in the world will not change this family''s view that their world changed for the worst the day the boy was given the MMR.



I have heard people say it was a coincidence that the change took place at the same time as MMR was administered. Perhaps it is true. I for one was not prepared to take the risk.



I believe in choice. An educated choice. However I do not think you should endanger your child or others by non vaccination.

I just wanted to say that my son James appeared to be completely ''normal'' up till he was around 16 months. Then we started noticing that things weren''t quite as they should be. If a child has mild autism it might not be picked up till this age anyway. My doctor told me a firm diagnosis for autism shouldn''t be made at a young age as children develop and change so much in the early years.

I agree with you Maisie. It may have been purely coincidence, as many others, including health professionals have told the family. I just didn''t want to take the risk.

But you did take a risk - a risk that your child could have contracted a disease that could have disfigured, or worse killed her. I''m not trying to suggest that you are a bad mother, or that you didn''t have your child''s best interests at heart, but I just don''t really understand the mindset that the perceived potential risk of a child contracting autism is worse than the known risk of a child contracting a dangerous illness.

Maise thanks for adding your perspective.

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 4:54:00 PM
Author: softly softly

Date: 3/14/2010 10:51:22 AM

Author: susimoo

Date: 3/14/2010 9:38:43 AM


Author: Maisie

Date: 3/14/2010 7:18:41 AM



Author: susimoo



I know that similar things have happened here in the UK. I am a believer in having children, including my own, vaccinated. What I do not want is for her to be given several vaccines at once. We decided that we would not have her vaccinated with the MMR jab and paid for separate vaccines spaced over an 18 to 24 week period. She is about to undertake her boosters before going to school.




The reason we didn't give her the MMR? I worked with a woman whose daughter gave birth to a beautiful baby boy approx 10 years ago. He was born on the same day as a dear work colleague had her daughter. Both mums regularly came to visit us and we watched them both as they grew and developed. He was as normal a child as you could ever hope to meet. Then after the MMR there was a distinct change in his demeanor and things rapidly grew worse. He was diagnosed with autism several years later.




I am not a doctor and having read the arguments before, both for and against. In the end I could only go on what I saw with my own eyes. Indeed when I fell pregnant the grandmother urged me to vaccinate but separately, not with the MMR. All the court rulings in the world will not change this family's view that their world changed for the worst the day the boy was given the MMR.




I have heard people say it was a coincidence that the change took place at the same time as MMR was administered. Perhaps it is true. I for one was not prepared to take the risk.




I believe in choice. An educated choice. However I do not think you should endanger your child or others by non vaccination.

I just wanted to say that my son James appeared to be completely 'normal' up till he was around 16 months. Then we started noticing that things weren't quite as they should be. If a child has mild autism it might not be picked up till this age anyway. My doctor told me a firm diagnosis for autism shouldn't be made at a young age as children develop and change so much in the early years.

I agree with you Maisie. It may have been purely coincidence, as many others, including health professionals have told the family. I just didn't want to take the risk.

But you did take a risk - a risk that your child could have contracted a disease that could have disfigured, or worse killed her. I'm not trying to suggest that you are a bad mother, or that you didn't have your child's best interests at heart, but I just don't really understand the mindset that the perceived potential risk of a child contracting autism is worse than the known risk of a child contracting a dangerous illness.




Maise thanks for adding your perspective.

I did not take a risk. I had my child vaccinated, not with MMR but with 3 separate vaccines. What is your point?

 

[Maisie]

Susi,

Did you vaccinate your child with the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccines separately? I didn''t know this was an option. Is the problem with the combined vaccine?

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
Susi,


Did you vaccinate your child with the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccines separately? I didn''t know this was an option. Is the problem with the combined vaccine?

Yes. We had her vaccinated with 3 separate vaccines. It was done privately, at our own cost. It was stated by my GP that the perceived risk was in the administration of the 3 vaccines at once. I regret the previous poster''s turn of phrase. It has upset me greatly. I stated my experience to tell people what I saw. I did not endanger my child or indeed anyone else''s. I would never do that.

 

[Maisie]

I wanted to say that we knew James would have difficulties in some form after he was diagnosed with Ventricularmegaly when I was pregnant. Its the dilation of the ventricles in the brain. (these are measured during routine ultrasounds during pregnancy). We were advised that James would have some form of disability, ranging from mild learning difficulties to Down Syndrome.

I pointed this out to show that it wasn''t the vaccinations that caused his difficulties.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 3/14/2010 5:07:29 PM
Author: susimoo

Date: 3/14/2010 5:02:52 PM
Author: Maisie
Susi,


Did you vaccinate your child with the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccines separately? I didn''t know this was an option. Is the problem with the combined vaccine?

Yes. We had her vaccinated with 3 separate vaccines. It was done privately, at our own cost. It was stated by my GP that the perceived risk was in the administration of the 3 vaccines at once. I regret the previous poster''s turn of phrase. It has upset me greatly. I stated my experience to tell people what I saw. I did not endanger my child or indeed anyone else''s. I would never do that.

Please don''t be upset. You know you are a good mother and have done the best you can for your child. (((hugs)))

I wasn''t aware you could vaccinate this way. Its a shame you had to pay for it but well done on researching the different options.

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 5:09:05 PM
Author: Maisie
I wanted to say that we knew James would have difficulties in some form after he was diagnosed with Ventricularmegaly when I was pregnant. Its the dilation of the ventricles in the brain. (these are measured during routine ultrasounds during pregnancy). We were advised that James would have some form of disability, ranging from mild learning difficulties to Down Syndrome.


I pointed this out to show that it wasn''t the vaccinations that caused his difficulties.

Maisie, you are very noble to go into such depths to explain your situation. I appreciate that. I hope that my stating that we chose not to have Sara immunized with the MMR was not seen a slight others that did. Again, that was never my intention. It was one of the many difficult questions we had to address as parents and it is how we chose to proceed. I just wanted to give my experience. I didn''t expect such an extreme response from the other poster.

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 5:10:32 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 3/14/2010 5:07:29 PM

Author: susimoo

Date: 3/14/2010 5:02:52 PM

Author: Maisie

Susi,



Did you vaccinate your child with the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccines separately? I didn''t know this was an option. Is the problem with the combined vaccine?

Yes. We had her vaccinated with 3 separate vaccines. It was done privately, at our own cost. It was stated by my GP that the perceived risk was in the administration of the 3 vaccines at once. I regret the previous poster''s turn of phrase. It has upset me greatly. I stated my experience to tell people what I saw. I did not endanger my child or indeed anyone else''s. I would never do that.

Please don''t be upset. You know you are a good mother and have done the best you can for your child. (((hugs)))


I wasn''t aware you could vaccinate this way. Its a shame you had to pay for it but well done on researching the different options.

Hugs to you! Thank you for being so kind. I was just taken aback by the insinuation that I was a bad mother.

 

[Maisie]

If I recall correctly you are in the UK Susan? I am too and it was a bit of a shock seeing how straight people are on PS. In the UK we tend to beat around the bush, sugar coat our opinions and try to be over polite. Here the posters just say it how it is. They aren't trying to be rude, but its common to just speak what you think. I don't believe that softly softly was trying to hurt your feelings. You will get used to this sort of posting the more you hang around

 

[susimoo]

I am indeed in the UK.

I am no stranger to straight talkers! LOL

I am an only girl with 4 brothers so there is not a lot of things that haven''t been said to me!

Straight talking is one thing but failure to get your facts right is another. Anyways, we all make mistakes. I will take no offense. I have had only help and kindness so far. Got to take the rough with the smooth, Eh?

Cheers Maisie, you are a pal!!!!!!

 

[Maisie]

You are welcome Susan

Pricescope is a wonderful place. I''m glad you are here!

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 5:30:14 PM
Author: Maisie
You are welcome Susan

Pricescope is a wonderful place. I''m glad you are here!

Thank you! I love it here. People like you make it a wonderful place to be!!!

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 3/13/2010 11:37:51 PM
Author: thing2of2
DITTO CIRCE. Attitudes like that are everything that is wrong with America. Hooray for another Dark Ages!

Agree. I know that stem cell research is a VERY controversial issue but now this country is behind Philippines, South Korea and many, many other places. I always wonder, if a person who is fighting it so much is faced with a situation when his/her child is sick with leukemia, or any other horrible ailment, and stem cell treatment could offer a chance of survival to the kid...would this parent change hers/his opinion? I have a whole list of illnesses that could have been cured or close to be cured by now had all federal grants for this research not been slashed for the last 8 years. And now the country simply has no money!

Sorry simply had to vent my frustration...

As to MMR, yes it can be given as three separate shots and since I had measles as a child I got only mumps and rubella. At NO PRIVATE COST. I got MR at 33 because I was warned never to get MMR after my measles.

Here is another issue: shortly after I got vaccinated I developed a neurological problem (not autism!). So all these years I kept asking myself if it was a coincidence or not. Since it did not run in my family But now my kid developed the same symptoms. So, simply, there must have been a gene mutation which I passed over to my son. Not a vaccine.

 

[Arkteia]

Just wanted to remind people what was going on in Europe before vaccination. People were giving birth to 14-15 kids of whom barely 2 or 3 would survive. Smallpox virtually decimated the population...out of 4, 3 would die during the epidemics. Then Edward Jenner came up with the idea of vaccination (you can read in Wikipedia about it). Very few people agreed at first...I give credit to Catherine the Great, in Russia she took the decision to be the first person to be vaccinated. But of course she was very educated and maintained regular correspondence with Voltaire. As the vaccination picked up, the smallpox went down. The last case was registered in 1980 I believe.

Same with antibiotics. You know what was the average lifespan of an american male in the beginning of the 20th century? 40 years. And the main cause of death? Pneumonia. Yet I know people who now refuse to take antibiotics preferring to "boost their immunity".

Just do a little bit research on vaccination and you''ll see where we are now because of it.

 

[Maisie]

Thank you for that post Crasru. I am going to read more about that.

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 6:45:37 PM
Author: crasru
Just wanted to remind people what was going on in Europe before vaccination. People were giving birth to 14-15 kids of whom barely 2 or 3 would survive. Smallpox virtually decimated the population...out of 4, 3 would die during the epidemics. Then Edward Jenner came up with the idea of vaccination (you can read in Wikipedia about it). Very few people agreed at first...I give credit to Catherine the Great, in Russia she took the decision to be the first person to be vaccinated. But of course she was very educated and maintained regular correspondence with Voltaire. As the vaccination picked up, the smallpox went down. The last case was registered in 1980 I believe.


Same with antibiotics. You know what was the average lifespan of an american male in the beginning of the 20th century? 40 years. And the main cause of death? Pneumonia. Yet I know people who now refuse to take antibiotics preferring to ''boost their immunity''.


Just do a little bit research on vaccination and you''ll see where we are now because of it.

Crasru

I completely agree with you about vaccination. My previous posts refer to my decisions that were made at the height of the MMR furore in the Uk.

Can I ask, were you vaccinated as an adult for mumps and rubella? Can I ask why? I have never heard of an adult being vaccinated for these conditions.

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 3/14/2010 10:27:50 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 3/14/2010 4:05:43 AM

Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/14/2010 1:30:37 AM


Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/13/2010 11:37:51 PM


Author: thing2of2


DITTO CIRCE. Attitudes like that are everything that is wrong with America. Hooray for another Dark Ages!

Do you even realize how rude you are talking about someone who''s posting in the same thread let alone the fact that you didn''t understand one thing I said?


Wow.

For the record.


thing2of2, it''s not everyday I get accused of being guilty of ''everything that is wrong with America'' along with your bizarre, over the top sarcasm about ''another Dark Ages!''


Your comments are offensive and I''ve reported them to the moderators.

Ha, well then I guess it''s a good thing I wasn''t ''accusing you'' of anything or even ''talking about'' you. But I''m the one who is isn''t understanding a thing someone says?


ksinger has it right-I was agreeing with Circe''s comments about anti-intellectualism in the US. But report away!

Your "DITTO CIRCE" seemed to be seconding EVERYTHING CIRCE SAID, and yes, I did think you were referring to my post when you said "attitudes like that". At least Circe ASKED me. You just piled on. Have a nice day.

 

[softly softly]

Susimoo I apologise sincerely for the offence my post caused. I did not mean to suggest that you are a bad mother (indeed I stated as much in my post) merely I was trying to point out (badly it would seem) that every choice regarding vaccinations is not without risk. I understand that you did what you believe is best, whereas for me the prolonged risk of exposure to disease by spacing out vaccinations was greater than the perceived risk of my kids contracting autism from the MMR vaccination so I had both my kids immunised according the suggested schedule in my country. I say perceived risk, because like you I did my research and I do not believe that vaccinations are in anyway responsible for autism.

Again I apologise for any offence I may have caused.

 

[yssie]

Date: 3/13/2010 10:57:28 PM
Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/13/2010 1:36:56 PM
Author: kenny
I normally deeply defend every parent''s right to make choices about their child.

I detest government intervention in family matters, but this is a public health issue.


Not vaccinating your kid increases his or her chances of getting disease X which puts all the other school kids at risk.


Your choices putting MY kid at risk is not cool.

But you don''t have kids, Kenny.

I don''t believe anything a federal court says unless I can understand the issues involved and consider the ruling myself. I''m not saying they''re right or wrong about this (I don''t know) but I won''t take their word because the federal judiciary is thoroughly corrupt.

I don''t think anyone actually in the medical community took Lancet''s nonsense seriously. It''s just sad that so many terrified parents jumped on the outbursts of a few extremists like that.. their children, and the children around them, are the ones who suffered.

 

[susimoo]

Date: 3/14/2010 7:05:49 PM
Author: softly softly
Susimoo I apologise sincerely for the offence my post caused. I did not mean to suggest that you are a bad mother (indeed I stated as much in my post) merely I was trying to point out (badly it would seem) that every choice regarding vaccinations is not without risk. I understand that you did what you believe is best, whereas for me the prolonged risk of exposure to disease by spacing out vaccinations was greater than the perceived risk of my kids contracting autism from the MMR vaccination so I had both my kids immunised according the suggested schedule in my country. I say perceived risk, because like you I did my research and I do not believe that vaccinations are in anyway responsible for autism.


Again I apologise for any offence I may have caused.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to reply

I spoke at length to my GP who admitted that whilst he thought the MMR was of no risk to my daughter, he also felt the manner I chose to have her vaccinated was not much different to how the 3 separate vaccines had been administered in the past, prior to MMR. Indeed, our GP''s practice used the information re the private doctor I researched and found myself and gave their details to anyone in the practice, who like ourselves, were having difficulty with the MMR.

So we took the difficult decision to do it separately and will again do so for her boosters.

I am glad that the confusion surrounding MMR may now be laid to rest and I hope that parents in the future WILL get their children vaccinated, at the appropriate time, in a manner in which they are comfortable with.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 3/14/2010 6:57:30 PM
Author: susimoo

Date: 3/14/2010 6:45:37 PM
Author: crasru
Just wanted to remind people what was going on in Europe before vaccination. People were giving birth to 14-15 kids of whom barely 2 or 3 would survive. Smallpox virtually decimated the population...out of 4, 3 would die during the epidemics. Then Edward Jenner came up with the idea of vaccination (you can read in Wikipedia about it). Very few people agreed at first...I give credit to Catherine the Great, in Russia she took the decision to be the first person to be vaccinated. But of course she was very educated and maintained regular correspondence with Voltaire. As the vaccination picked up, the smallpox went down. The last case was registered in 1980 I believe.


Same with antibiotics. You know what was the average lifespan of an american male in the beginning of the 20th century? 40 years. And the main cause of death? Pneumonia. Yet I know people who now refuse to take antibiotics preferring to ''boost their immunity''.


Just do a little bit research on vaccination and you''ll see where we are now because of it.

Crasru

I completely agree with you about vaccination. My previous posts refer to my decisions that were made at the height of the MMR furore in the Uk.

Can I ask, were you vaccinated as an adult for mumps and rubella? Can I ask why? I have never heard of an adult being vaccinated for these conditions.

It is a very strange situation. I was vaccinated, then got a MILDER case of measles which they ascribed to vaccination (I guess it may happen!) and that was it. But before I started my residency I was checked for antibodies against rubella since rubella is so dangerous for pregnant women (rubella causes horrible complications in inborn fetuses inclusing blindness and deafness - all the more reason to vaccinate children against it!). And while I had antibodies against measles, I had none against rubella or mumps. (Did they have separate vaccines in Russia when I was a child? I have no clue. The vaccine was called MMR...). But since I had antibodies against measles and had a case of measles, the nurse offered me a separate rubella and mumps vaccines. This is how I got it.

And BTW - all these contributing to this thread, why don''t you read about rubella in pregnancy? Especially mothers who have girls? If your girl is not vaccinated against rubella and contracts it during pregnancy, she runs a horrible risk. For the newborn baby, I mean. (Sorry for wrong grammar - I just don''t want to write a lengthy topic on it).

I think Agatha Christie wrote one of her mystery novels featuring a similar case, and there was a movie starring Elizabeth Taylor based on Christie''s book. Funny coincidence...

 

[Maisie]

I had the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccination when I was a child and I had the rubella vaccination again when I was 13.

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 3/14/2010 8:53:18 PM
Author: Maisie
I had the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccination when I was a child and I had the rubella vaccination again when I was 13.

Ah! I have to check - maybe I should have been vaccinated twice but since I had this case of vaccination-induced measles they might have decided to skip the second one. I have to check the calendar of vaccinations in Merck textbook - I had a rotation in pediatrics such a long time ago.

 

[Kaleigh]

I did the MMR in stages, this was years and years ago. I had my questions about how my son would tolerate it in one big dose. He was sooo allergic, and took the safe route. Luckily my pediatirician saw it as I saw it , and having them spaced out wasn''t a problem for my son, or the schools he would attend.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 3/14/2010 7:04:40 PM
Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/14/2010 10:27:50 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 3/14/2010 4:05:43 AM
Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/14/2010 1:30:37 AM
Author: Imdanny

Date: 3/13/2010 11:37:51 PM
Author: thing2of2

DITTO CIRCE. Attitudes like that are everything that is wrong with America. Hooray for another Dark Ages!

Do you even realize how rude you are talking about someone who''s posting in the same thread let alone the fact that you didn''t understand one thing I said?

Wow.

For the record.

thing2of2, it''s not everyday I get accused of being guilty of ''everything that is wrong with America'' along with your bizarre, over the top sarcasm about ''another Dark Ages!''

Your comments are offensive and I''ve reported them to the moderators.

Ha, well then I guess it''s a good thing I wasn''t ''accusing you'' of anything or even ''talking about'' you. But I''m the one who is isn''t understanding a thing someone says?

ksinger has it right-I was agreeing with Circe''s comments about anti-intellectualism in the US. But report away!

Your ''DITTO CIRCE'' seemed to be seconding EVERYTHING CIRCE SAID, and yes, I did think you were referring to my post when you said ''attitudes like that''. At least Circe ASKED me. You just piled on. Have a nice day.

Mmhm, but I wasn''t referring to your post, I was referring to Circe''s post about anti-intellectualism in the U.S., WHICH I ALREADY EXPLAINED TO YOU. If I was referring to your post I would tell you. So again, failing to see how I piled on. But thanks, I''ll definitely have a nice day!