Family diamonds...Delicate situation

[Phoenix]

I have a couple of dilemmas involving family diamonds and I would appreciate any advice you guys can give me.

I used to have this pair of old cut/ antique diamonds earrings. I have no idea whether they're OEC, OMC or transitional. All I know is this: They are very white, prob G-H, clean VS-Si1, very sparkly, and weigh about 1.60-1.80ctw. I think my mom bought them from an antique dealer in London, a long long time ago. I subsequently bought them from my mom since she wanted to buy something else and needed the funds. I think I wore them for abt a year or so. About 15 years ago, I gave them to my mom for safe-keeping (as I wasn't into diamonds then and was also a bit worried abt being mugged). I found out later that she'd given one of them away to one of my sisters who subsequently gave it to her own daughter. So that's fine, since my mom might have mistakenly thought I'd given them to her as a gift.

Over the years, I also gave my mom some other smaller diamonds (some she bought from outside vendors, I subsequently bought them from her and then gave them back to her without taking any money; some were jewellery gifts). I also gave my mom and dad money on a regular basis, and still do to my dad.

When my mom passed away about 3 yrs ago, she left me most of her diamond jewellery, amongst which was the remaining diamond that came from this antique pair of earrings. I'm guessing that it was because these diamonds and the money used to purchase them had been gifts I'd given to her while she was alive, so she prob felt obliged to give them back to me. I felt bad nonetheless and gave my dad about US$10k and told him it was for the funeral expenses and to fund his trip overseas (we all encouraged him to take a holiday to see other friends and other family members, since we were concerned if he had stayed, he'd have moped over my mom's death).

Since the funeral though, I have given away most of these diamonds to my sisters and nieces (including the remaining antique diamond from the earrings, to the same sister who got the other antique one) and all that I have left from my mom is a small 5-stone eternity band. I now have 2 issues that I need to deal with and would like to get PS'ers opinions, since you've always been so kind and wonderful with your ideas and suggestions.

1) the first issue is a real biggie: my dad now wants me to "give back" (his words) the 5-diamond eternity band, to give as a gift to my SIL (my younger brother's wife). He seems to have forgotten that I had actually "paid" for these now twice (once when my mom was alive and the other time was after she passed). But that's not really the problem. I'd be happy to give it away if it was anyone else in the family other than my SIL. But this SIL is a real *EVIL B%^^&"!! Without wanting to go into the very long story that it is, let me just say that she had NO respect for her husband (my brother), my mom and dad and our family in general. She was very insulting to my family (well, has been all along) at my mom's funeral and did a very horrible and disrespectful thing to my mom at the time of her death. I have no idea why my dad wants to do this, other than to make peace with her so he can see her children (dad's grandsons).

2) the second issue is not as much of a biggie, but I'll ask anyway. I'd love to get the antique pair of earrings back. I'd be very happy to pay my sister and her daughter a sum of money (ie. the diamonds' market's worth or thereabout) or alternatively buy them 2 brand new diamonds to replace those. I'd like to have them back for sentimental reasons. I want to have something of my mom's to remember her by, esp. if I ended up having to give the 5-stone eternity band to evil SIL. But how do I go about even asking my sis and niece without offending them?

Oh and my sisters and nieces all have something of my mom's to remember her by. I'm hoping that they'd understand I'd want to have something of mom's too, but I'm still really reluctant to ask!

 

[Cehrabehra]

I would tell your father no - I would say it is the ONLY piece you have left from your mom and you won''t give it away.

Anything you decide to do with your sister and the earrings (trade or just purchase outright) is a different matter entirely.

You have been MORE than generous - I cannot beleive anyone is asking more of you.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Phoenix, first, I''m sorry your dad is putting you in this awkward situation. it sounds a lot like the power play/passive aggressiveness that I see sometimes in my own family, especially with my parents and grandparents.

First, I would not give the ring to SIL. Tell your dad you''ll buy her a band or something, but tell him this ring is your lasting remaining piece of jewelry from your mom, and it''s not right for him to ask you to give it to her. That SIL is your family, but your mom is your mom and the sentiment attached is too great for you to give it up. Tell him that you''re sure that SIL would understand and would do the same if it were her and her mom''s jewelry.

As for the earrings, would you still want them back if you kept the ring?

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 3:55:45 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
I would tell your father no - I would say it is the ONLY piece you have left from your mom and you won't give it away.

Anything you decide to do with your sister and the earrings (trade or just purchase outright) is a different matter entirely.

You have been MORE than generous - I cannot beleive anyone is asking more of you.

That's the problem though. I can't say no to my dad. Some of my sisters on the other hand seem to have no problem saying no. Apparently, my dad also asked one of my sisters to give some of my mom's jewellry back to him, so he can give them to "The Evil One", and she told him no, saying that she'd already passed the jewewellery to her own kids. Good for her!

My dad is very persistent. I keep saying that I don't have time to yet to send it over and since I'm in China, sending jewellery might be a problem (having to do all kinds of declaration, paperwork) but EVERY single time I speak to him on the 'phone, he keeps reminding me. I don't want to NOT call him to avoid having to deal with this issue.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 4:01:59 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Phoenix, first, I'm sorry your dad is putting you in this awkward situation. it sounds a lot like the power play/passive aggressiveness that I see sometimes in my own family, especially with my parents and grandparents.

First, I would not give the ring to SIL. Tell your dad you'll buy her a band or something, but tell him this ring is your lasting remaining piece of jewelry from your mom, and it's not right for him to ask you to give it to her. That SIL is your family, but your mom is your mom and the sentiment attached is too great for you to give it up. Tell him that you're sure that SIL would understand and would do the same if it were her and her mom's jewelry.

As for the earrings, would you still want them back if you kept the ring?

Hmmm...that is *exactly* what it is. There are 9 children in my family and amongst us, one of my sisters and I are the ones that have taken/ take the most care of my parents. Not saying that the others don't (well, apart from my younger brother, pls see later), just that this sister and I spend more time and give more money/ gifts to my parents. So my dad (and my mom when she was alive) always called on the two of us. I've never really minded, until now, that is. See story below.

Well, this is an extremely small part of the story and I don't want to "out" them too much, but my younger brother has always been the "apple of my parents' eye". No problem with that per se, except that I think my parents and now my dad, have/ has always been too soft when it comes to him. My dad cleared up my brother's 4,000 pound credit card debt (and my dad hasn't worked for the last 20 years). Mom loaned/ gave him 15,000 pounds (sterling pounds, not USD) to help him buy their house (some of that money I'm sure came from me/ from my gifts to mom) and to this day, Evil SIL and my brother have never given the money back to my parents/ dad. Last I heard, they bought a GBP1m (abt USD1.5m) house in Norway, Oslo where they live and yet my dad still hasn't seen any of that money back. We can totally write off the loan now!! Bearing in mind that my parents/ my mom were and are still poor, hence my regular monetary gifts to them. This EVIL B&&^^ insullted my mom (I won't go into that now, at least not yet), insulted us as a family, insulted her husband in front of us (telling him that he was no good and that since she was making more money than he, he'd better stay at home and look after the kids - no point in paying for a nanny since my brother doesn't earn that much anyway!!

). I called her out at the time of my mom's funeral. I told her off for having been a b%%6&& and that she'd better clean up her act. You know what she did?!! She told my sisters that she "wanted to beat me up!!"

What kind of person talks like that?!! Then, after my mom's funeral, she banned my brother from talking to my dad. My poor dad kept calling my brother, emaiing him, even asked my other siblings to try and get in touch with him to ask him to get in touch with my dad; and for 2 whole years, my poor dad didn't manage to speak to my brother or my nephews!!

Recently, however, Evil SIL has let up a bit and my dad managed to travel to Oslo to see my brother and his kids. He was soooo happy, hence the reason for him wanting to make peace with her. I just don't see though why it has to be my mom's jewellery!! My DH knows abt all of this, since the fight with Evil SIL took place in front of him and I've since told him everything. DH now forbids me from spending any money on Evil SIL. DH says that Evil SIL has disgraced our family, her husband and most of all herself in front of us; so why should we spend any money on her or give her anything at all, let alone my mom's diamond ring which holds HUGE sentimental value for me(?!!) I agree with DH in principle, but my poor dad keeps reminding me to send the ring. I think he's scared that Evil SIL would change her mind back and ban him from seeing his own son and grandsons.

Regarding your other Q, Brown, if I could keep the 5-stone ring, I might not ask my sister if I could buy back the earrings. This sister is a really wonderful person and I absolutely *adore* her . I'd just like to have the earrings back for sentimental reasons and I'm not so sure that her kids (as lovely as they are) value them sentimentally as much as I do. BUT I might be completely wrong here and I might risk my relationship with sis. Maybe these earrings do hold a very special place in sis's/ niece's heart. How do I go about finding that out though, that's the million dollar Q (?!).

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/13/2010 5:46:19 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/13/2010 4:01:59 AM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Phoenix, first, I''m sorry your dad is putting you in this awkward situation. it sounds a lot like the power play/passive aggressiveness that I see sometimes in my own family, especially with my parents and grandparents.


First, I would not give the ring to SIL. Tell your dad you''ll buy her a band or something, but tell him this ring is your lasting remaining piece of jewelry from your mom, and it''s not right for him to ask you to give it to her. That SIL is your family, but your mom is your mom and the sentiment attached is too great for you to give it up. Tell him that you''re sure that SIL would understand and would do the same if it were her and her mom''s jewelry.


As for the earrings, would you still want them back if you kept the ring?

Hmmm...that is *exactly* what it is. There are 9 children in my family and amongst us, one of my sisters and I are the ones that have taken/ take the most care of my parents. Not saying that the others don''t (well, apart from my younger brother, pls see later), just that this sister and I spend more time and give more money/ gifts to my parents. So my dad (and my mom when she was alive) always called on the two of us. I''ve never really minded, until now, that is. See story below.


Well, this is an extremely small part of the story and I don''t want to ''out'' them too much, but my younger brother has always been the ''apple of my parents'' eye''. No problem with that per se, except that I think my parents and now my dad, have/ has always been too soft when it comes to him. My dad cleared up my brother''s 4,000 pound credit card debt (and my dad hasn''t worked for the last 20 years). Mom loaned/ gave him 15,000 pounds (sterling pounds, not USD) to help him buy their house (some of that money I''m sure came from me/ from my gifts to mom) and to this day, Evil SIL and my brother have never given the money back to my parents/ dad. Last I heard, they bought a GBP1m (abt USD1.5m) house in Norway, Oslo where they live and yet my dad still hasn''t seen any of that money back. We can totally write off the loan now!! Bearing in mind that my parents/ my mom were and are still poor, hence my regular monetary gifts to them. This EVIL B&&^^ insullted my mom (I won''t go into that now, at least not yet), insulted us as a family, insulted her husband in front of us (telling him that he was no good and that since she was making more money than he, he''d better stay at home and look after the kids - no point in paying for a nanny since my brother doesn''t earn that much anyway!!

). I called her out at the time of my mom''s funeral. I told her off for having been a b%%6&& and that she''d better clean up her act. You know what she did?!! She told my sisters that she ''wanted to beat me up!!''

What kind of person talks like that?!! Then, after my mom''s funeral, she banned my brother from talking to my dad. My poor dad kept calling my brother, emaiing him, even asked my other siblings to try and get in touch with him to ask him to get in touch with my dad; and for 2 whole years, my poor dad didn''t manage to speak to my brother or my nephews!!

Recently, however, Evil SIL has let up a bit and my dad managed to travel to Oslo to see my brother and his kids. He was soooo happy, hence the reason for him wanting to make peace with her. I just don''t see though why it has to be my mom''s jewellery!! My DH knows abt all of this, since the fight with Evil SIL took place in front of him and I''ve since told him everything. DH now forbids me from spending any money on Evil SIL. DH says that Evil SIL has disgraced our family, her husband and most of all herself in front of us; so why should we spend any money on her or give her anything at all, let alone my mom''s diamond ring which holds HUGE sentimental value for me(?!!) I agree with DH in principle, but my poor dad keeps reminding me to send the ring. I think he''s scared that Evil SIL would change her mind back and ban him from seeing his own son and grandsons.


Regarding your other Q, Brown, if I could keep the 5-stone ring, I might not ask my sister if I could buy back the earrings. This sister is a really wonderful person and I absolutely *adore* her . I''d just like to have the earrings back for sentimental reasons and I''m not so sure that her kids (as lovely as they are) value them sentimentally as much as I do. BUT I might be completely wrong here and I might risk my relationship with sis. Maybe these earrings do hold a very special place in sis''s/ niece''s heart. How do I go about finding that out though, that''s the million dollar Q (?!).

Phoenix, I''m SO sorry you''re going through this. I''m an only child and my parents depend on me a lot, especially my mom, and we''ve had some issues in the recent past because of this. To keep my story short, BF feels my mom uses and guilt trips me a lot, because she knows she can, and I feel like that''s what''s happening with your dad (since he knows you''ll probably say yes based on precedent).

It''s going to be so tough to stand firm on this, I know. I think you really have to though. The issues are so much greater than whether or not to indulge this evil b**** of a SIL.

First, it''s your mom''s ring, and you''re her daughter. Not SIL. Unless SIL was the greatest most wonderful person who was there for you and your mom all the way, she does not deserve that ring, and you do. Not to mention your mom gave it to YOU, not SIL. Point out to your dad that you''re going against your mom''s wishes if you give it to SIL - that there was a reason this sentimental piece went to her devoted daughter. Play the guilt card if you have to.

Second, don''t let your SIL or your dad get away with this. I don''t think this is a one-off situation. It''s kind of like negotiating with terrorists right? If you do it once, you set the precedent that it''s possible in the future...and create more trouble. Your DH seems like a smart man and I''m glad he''s supporting you. Lean on him for support and stand your ground.

Third, your dad and SIL''s situation. It really sucks for your dad that he feels like he needs to "buy" time with his grandkids. SIL sounds like a real piece of work. However, that is THEIR situation and something they need to deal with - you''re his daughter but you can''t fight all of his battles for him, and it''s not fair to be dragged in as an uninvolved third party.

Fourth, if your dad is REALLY worried about appeasing SIL (and seriously it galls me to even suggest this and reward someone who sounds so awful), I would suggest to him to buy her a brand new piece of jewelry or something else. Point out to him that it doesn''t sound like she''d appreciate any type of sentimental jewelry (especially in light of the way she acted at your mom''s funeral

) and that she''d probably like something new and sparkly even better.

Finally, sorry this is so long! - I think the earrings situation is totally different. Bring it up with your sister neutrally and ask whether she''d feel ok with selling or trading them back to you. If she seems amenable, then go for it - but of course, you know your sister the best and can probably gauge how she''d take it.

Seriously, good luck. Family situations like this are never fun to deal with, and I wish you the best on resolving it!

 

[Amethyste]

Date: 2/13/2010 5:46:19 AM
Author: Phoenix

Well, this is an extremely small part of the story and I don't want to 'out' them too much, but my younger brother has always been the 'apple of my parents' eye'. No problem with that per se, except that I think my parents and now my dad, have/ has always been too soft when it comes to him. My dad cleared up my brother's 4,000 pound credit card debt (and my dad hasn't worked for the last 20 years). Mom loaned/ gave him 15,000 pounds (sterling pounds, not USD) to help him buy their house (some of that money I'm sure came from me/ from my gifts to mom) and to this day, Evil SIL and my brother have never given the money back to my parents/ dad. Last I heard, they bought a GBP1m (abt USD1.5m) house in Norway, Oslo where they live and yet my dad still hasn't seen any of that money back. We can totally write off the loan now!! Bearing in mind that my parents/ my mom were and are still poor, hence my regular monetary gifts to them. This EVIL B&&^^ insullted my mom (I won't go into that now, at least not yet), insulted us as a family, insulted her husband in front of us (telling him that he was no good and that since she was making more money than he, he'd better stay at home and look after the kids - no point in paying for a nanny since my brother doesn't earn that much anyway!!

). I called her out at the time of my mom's funeral. I told her off for having been a b%%6&& and that she'd better clean up her act. You know what she did?!! She told my sisters that she 'wanted to beat me up!!'

What kind of person talks like that?!! Then, after my mom's funeral, she banned my brother from talking to my dad. My poor dad kept calling my brother, emaiing him, even asked my other siblings to try and get in touch with him to ask him to get in touch with my dad; and for 2 whole years, my poor dad didn't manage to speak to my brother or my nephews!!

Recently, however, Evil SIL has let up a bit and my dad managed to travel to Oslo to see my brother and his kids. He was soooo happy, hence the reason for him wanting to make peace with her. I just don't see though why it has to be my mom's jewellery!! My DH knows abt all of this, since the fight with Evil SIL took place in front of him and I've since told him everything. DH now forbids me from spending any money on Evil SIL. DH says that Evil SIL has disgraced our family, her husband and most of all herself in front of us; so why should we spend any money on her or give her anything at all, let alone my mom's diamond ring which holds HUGE sentimental value for me(?!!) I agree with DH in principle, but my poor dad keeps reminding me to send the ring. I think he's scared that Evil SIL would change her mind back and ban him from seeing his own son and grandsons.


Regarding your other Q, Brown, if I could keep the 5-stone ring, I might not ask my sister if I could buy back the earrings. This sister is a really wonderful person and I absolutely *adore* her . I'd just like to have the earrings back for sentimental reasons and I'm not so sure that her kids (as lovely as they are) value them sentimentally as much as I do. BUT I might be completely wrong here and I might risk my relationship with sis. Maybe these earrings do hold a very special place in sis's/ niece's heart. How do I go about finding that out though, that's the million dollar Q (?!).

Phoenix!!!! They are poor BECAUSE of all they do for him - as a result, you give them your own money, do indirectly you are enabling this whole cycle to go on! I know you cannot say no to your dad, and with good reasons, but you must stick to your guns and not give the ring back since:

1> you love it and want to keep it as it is a reminder of your mom.
2> you would give it away to someone you don't even care for and is not giving anyone warm fuzzies. She'd probably wouldn't even wear it anyways since it seems that she is pretty careless of people's feelings etc...
3> Regardless that it belonged to your mother, with all of your kind lending and helping them, paying for things that later were given, I'd consider this a "small" payment for all of what you have done.

And TRY to not feel bad about keeping this ring with you. You are HER DIRECT Child. She is not.

Since the SIL is EVIL, I have an EVIL plan for you...:

Do you "think" your dad remembers the 5 stone ring really really well? I am only asking because, if you think he doesn't why don't you try to find something comparable to what you have right now like on ebay and such and send him that? I mean he's not going to be keeping it anyways ( nothing sentimental ) and you'd be able to keep the sentimental ring from your mom, safe with you. To H$LL with her!!! I'd even find a CZ band and give that!!! When your dad calls back and he asks about the ring just tell him that you are getting it fixed at the jeweler ( like tightening prongs and cleaned ) and when it comes back, you'll send it. It will give you some "extra play" time to find a suiting replacement

Hang there Cutie... And BE STRONG!!

 

[y2kitty]

I second Amethyste''s evil plan!

Is evil SIL American?

 

[NeverEndingUpgrade]

Date: 2/13/2010 2:01:09 AM
Author:Phoenix

2) the second issue is not as much of a biggie, but I''ll ask anyway. I''d love to get the antique pair of earrings back. I''d be very happy to pay my sister and her daughter a sum of money (ie. the diamonds'' market''s worth or thereabout) or alternatively buy them 2 brand new diamonds to replace those. I''d like to have them back for sentimental reasons. I want to have something of my mom''s to remember her by, esp. if I ended up having to give the 5-stone eternity band to evil SIL. But how do I go about even asking my sis and niece without offending them?

Oh and my sisters and nieces all have something of my mom''s to remember her by. I''m hoping that they''d understand I''d want to have something of mom''s too, but I''m still really reluctant to ask!

1) Just say no to your dad. It''s hard, I know. But you have very good reasons for doing so.

2) Why don''t you present the question to your sister and niece exactly as you worded it above? They might be happy to grant you your request.

BTW, I think that Amethyste''s plan is BRILLIANT!!!!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Honestly, I''m surprised your dad would insist if you''ve told him how much your mom''s ring means to you and you want to keep it to remember her by. She was your mother, not your SILs after all! Maybe suggest to your dad another way to make peace? Maybe ask your brother what your SIL has been wanting (coffee maker, ipod, etc), and get her that instead? She''ll get something she''s been wanting, and you can keep your ring. I''m not saying it''s right for your dad to be expecting you to give up jewelery or money for her, but it''s an alternative option. Unless your dad is insisting on the ring for some reason, I don''t know why he wouldn''t be ok with you getting her something else that she would really like.

I wouldn''t be afraid of asking your sister for earrings, if she''s the wonderful person you say she is, I''m sure she''ll understand where you''re coming from and can relate to your feelings. I would just ask nicely and make it clear you don''t think you''re entitled to them more than she is, and you would understand if she would rather keep them for her own reasons.

Anyways, good luck! Family situations are tricky

 

[Cehrabehra]

but you CAN say no, you SHOULD say no, and if you DON''T say no you will regret it and likely resent your father for it... that is so much worse than saying no!!!!

 

[joflier]

Does your Dad know how much this ring means to you? Just reading the part of your story about how your SIL is maybe letting her ice thaw a little bit....maybe he doesn''t realize how attached you are to it, and is just searching for any way possible to keep his son and grandsons closer in his life? Even if that means gifting the nasty wife?
If you haven''t told him how much this means to you - I''d say now is the time. Lay it out there, girl! And perhaps even tell him that your just not comfortable with whom it would be going to and why. Good luck.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 7:09:45 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Phoenix, I'm SO sorry you're going through this. I'm an only child and my parents depend on me a lot, especially my mom, and we've had some issues in the recent past because of this. To keep my story short, BF feels my mom uses and guilt trips me a lot, because she knows she can, and I feel like that's what's happening with your dad (since he knows you'll probably say yes based on precedent).

It's going to be so tough to stand firm on this, I know. I think you really have to though. The issues are so much greater than whether or not to indulge this evil b**** of a SIL.

First, it's your mom's ring, and you're her daughter. Not SIL. Unless SIL was the greatest most wonderful person who was there for you and your mom all the way, she does not deserve that ring, and you do. Not to mention your mom gave it to YOU, not SIL. Point out to your dad that you're going against your mom's wishes if you give it to SIL - that there was a reason this sentimental piece went to her devoted daughter. Play the guilt card if you have to.

Second, don't let your SIL or your dad get away with this. I don't think this is a one-off situation. It's kind of like negotiating with terrorists right? If you do it once, you set the precedent that it's possible in the future...and create more trouble. Your DH seems like a smart man and I'm glad he's supporting you. Lean on him for support and stand your ground.

Third, your dad and SIL's situation. It really sucks for your dad that he feels like he needs to 'buy' time with his grandkids. SIL sounds like a real piece of work. However, that is THEIR situation and something they need to deal with - you're his daughter but you can't fight all of his battles for him, and it's not fair to be dragged in as an uninvolved third party.

Fourth, if your dad is REALLY worried about appeasing SIL (and seriously it galls me to even suggest this and reward someone who sounds so awful), I would suggest to him to buy her a brand new piece of jewelry or something else. Point out to him that it doesn't sound like she'd appreciate any type of sentimental jewelry (especially in light of the way she acted at your mom's funeral

) and that she'd probably like something new and sparkly even better.

Finally, sorry this is so long! - I think the earrings situation is totally different. Bring it up with your sister neutrally and ask whether she'd feel ok with selling or trading them back to you. If she seems amenable, then go for it - but of course, you know your sister the best and can probably gauge how she'd take it.

Seriously, good luck. Family situations like this are never fun to deal with, and I wish you the best on resolving it!

Thank you sooo much for taking the time to write with detailed input/ suggestions. I used to think that being an only child might have been better then I wouldn't have to deal with situations like this, but I guess everyone has some kind of family dilemma to deal with. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with some issues of your own. It's never easy, is it! [sigh]

Yes, SIL is a real piece of work. I feel really bad thinking about this let alone saying it out aloud, but I can't help but think there's a special place in h6&^% for people like her, really!

Thanks for your kind words about DH. He truly is a wonderful man that I can totally lean on for support.

You are 110% per cent right about my mom leaving the jewellery to me. She wanted me to have them, not anyone else. If it is my wish to give them to other members of our family, I'm sure mom would have understood; but not this Evil B&&(++&** - she's NOT family. Mom would turn in her grave. I think this is what I'd have to say to my dad. I think dad asks me and has been asking me because I haven't worked up enough courage to say no to him, and he knows this!

You're absolutely right about her not appreciating the ring. I just feel horrible for my dad; and as you've rightly pointed out, I'm sure he feels that he has to appease her somehow in order for her to let him see his own grandchildren.

I've discussed buying another piece of jewellery for Evil B but DH is adamantly against it. DH doesn't see why we'd have to carry on suppporting her, let alone pleasing her with ANY piece of jewellery at all.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2010 5:46:19 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/13/2010 4:01:59 AM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Phoenix, first, I''m sorry your dad is putting you in this awkward situation. it sounds a lot like the power play/passive aggressiveness that I see sometimes in my own family, especially with my parents and grandparents.


First, I would not give the ring to SIL. Tell your dad you''ll buy her a band or something, but tell him this ring is your lasting remaining piece of jewelry from your mom, and it''s not right for him to ask you to give it to her. That SIL is your family, but your mom is your mom and the sentiment attached is too great for you to give it up. Tell him that you''re sure that SIL would understand and would do the same if it were her and her mom''s jewelry.


As for the earrings, would you still want them back if you kept the ring?

Regarding your other Q, Brown, if I could keep the 5-stone ring, I might not ask my sister if I could buy back the earrings. This sister is a really wonderful person and I absolutely *adore* her . I''d just like to have the earrings back for sentimental reasons and I''m not so sure that her kids (as lovely as they are) value them sentimentally as much as I do. BUT I might be completely wrong here and I might risk my relationship with sis. Maybe these earrings do hold a very special place in sis''s/ niece''s heart. How do I go about finding that out though, that''s the million dollar Q (?!).

You are not plannig to have children, right Phoenix? Why not ask for the earrings and promise to give them to her or her children in your will? I know it sounds a bit morbid but it''s a thought... also please don''t give that woman your mother''s ring - I''m quite sure your mom would turn in her grave!!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

omg I can''t believe you used the same term I did!!! My post took forever to actually post (like 2 min) and I bet we typed it at the same time!! Right after I hit send I started to worry maybe it would not be received well in your culture and then I had to laugh when you used the exact same words!!!!!!

Happy CNY! The booms have been going on for 80 minutes and don''t seem ready to stop.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 7:50:56 AM
Author: Amethyste


Phoenix!!!! They are poor BECAUSE of all they do for him - as a result, you give them your own money, do indirectly you are enabling this whole cycle to go on! I know you cannot say no to your dad, and with good reasons, but you must stick to your guns and not give the ring back since:

1> you love it and want to keep it as it is a reminder of your mom.
2> you would give it away to someone you don''t even care for and is not giving anyone warm fuzzies. She''d probably wouldn''t even wear it anyways since it seems that she is pretty careless of people''s feelings etc...
3> Regardless that it belonged to your mother, with all of your kind lending and helping them, paying for things that later were given, I''d consider this a ''small'' payment for all of what you have done.

And TRY to not feel bad about keeping this ring with you. You are HER DIRECT Child. She is not.

Since the SIL is EVIL, I have an EVIL plan for you...:

Do you ''think'' your dad remembers the 5 stone ring really really well? I am only asking because, if you think he doesn''t why don''t you try to find something comparable to what you have right now like on ebay and such and send him that? I mean he''s not going to be keeping it anyways ( nothing sentimental ) and you''d be able to keep the sentimental ring from your mom, safe with you. To H$LL with her!!! I''d even find a CZ band and give that!!! When your dad calls back and he asks about the ring just tell him that you are getting it fixed at the jeweler ( like tightening prongs and cleaned ) and when it comes back, you''ll send it. It will give you some ''extra play'' time to find a suiting replacement

Hang there Cutie... And BE STRONG!!

Ha ha, me likey your EVIL plan!! The bl^^% Evil B would deserve it if I were to give her a CZ ring!!

The only problem with it though is that the Evil B, being as evil and calculating as she is, will prob have it checked out and once she finds out it''s fake, there''s going to be h**& to pay. And I''d hate for my dad to be at the receiving end of her evil rod (or something like that!). I think your alternative plan may work if I can persuade DH to let me spend some money on Evil B and so far (it''s been a few months already), DH has given me a firm NO.

Thanks for your kind support. I''m trying to be strong but it''s hard when it''s your own dad.

 

[Cehrabehra]

yeah it might be hard phoenix - but you gotta do what you gotta do! big girl panties!!!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:18:07 AM
Author: NeverEndingUpgrade

Date: 2/13/2010 2:01:09 AM
Author:Phoenix

2) the second issue is not as much of a biggie, but I''ll ask anyway. I''d love to get the antique pair of earrings back. I''d be very happy to pay my sister and her daughter a sum of money (ie. the diamonds'' market''s worth or thereabout) or alternatively buy them 2 brand new diamonds to replace those. I''d like to have them back for sentimental reasons. I want to have something of my mom''s to remember her by, esp. if I ended up having to give the 5-stone eternity band to evil SIL. But how do I go about even asking my sis and niece without offending them?

Oh and my sisters and nieces all have something of my mom''s to remember her by. I''m hoping that they''d understand I''d want to have something of mom''s too, but I''m still really reluctant to ask!

1) Just say no to your dad. It''s hard, I know. But you have very good reasons for doing so.

2) Why don''t you present the question to your sister and niece exactly as you worded it above? They might be happy to grant you your request.

BTW, I think that Amethyste''s plan is BRILLIANT!!!!

Thank you for your kind support too. In all honesty, I think I''m just reluctant to ask my sis because she''s so super nice and her kids have had some hard time. Also, I''m a bit worried that they may get offended, because I don''t think that they themselves would ever do anything like it (like asking for sometihing back after it''s been given, even if I were offer to compensate them). Sis is not material-minded at all and I really don''t want to offend her. Maybe it''s best I just left things alone.

I *do* in fact think Amethyste''s plan is BRILLIANT too. I almost spit my wine all over the keyboard when I read it!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:20:08 AM
Author: MakingTheGrade
Honestly, I'm surprised your dad would insist if you've told him how much your mom's ring means to you and you want to keep it to remember her by. She was your mother, not your SILs after all! Maybe suggest to your dad another way to make peace? Maybe ask your brother what your SIL has been wanting (coffee maker, ipod, etc), and get her that instead? She'll get something she's been wanting, and you can keep your ring. I'm not saying it's right for your dad to be expecting you to give up jewelery or money for her, but it's an alternative option. Unless your dad is insisting on the ring for some reason, I don't know why he wouldn't be ok with you getting her something else that she would really like.

I wouldn't be afraid of asking your sister for earrings, if she's the wonderful person you say she is, I'm sure she'll understand where you're coming from and can relate to your feelings. I would just ask nicely and make it clear you don't think you're entitled to them more than she is, and you would understand if she would rather keep them for her own reasons.

Anyways, good luck! Family situations are tricky

Ah!! The thing is I've told dad I wanted to keep the ring, but he chooses to see things his own way (dad is very stubborn!). Also, there's another fact I haven't told you guys yet. After my mom's death, the Evil B sent back the jewellery that mom had given her, addressed to guess who?!! MOM!!, knowing full well that mom had just been buried a few days prior!!

Well, so this jewellery was then given to my sis (the nice one with the daughters and the antique earrings). It was her that my dad went after first and he said that the items rightly belonged to Evil B (cos mom had given them to her). My sis promptly told dad that she'd already given everything to her own daughters and that she wasn't going to take them back from her own chidlren. So then after that, dad went after me. He said that Evil B (certainly not his words) deserved at least one piece out of my mom's jewellery since she's now mellowed (meaning she's now letting him see her sons) and he wants to give it to her as a peace offering. And I'm too weak to say no to him, at least not yet anyway. The worst thing is that she's NEVER apologised, not to my dad, certainly not to me. I just really don't understand my dad!! [scratching head].

Thanks for the good luck, I'll need it.

Btw, Happy Chinese NY to you, MTG!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:44:08 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
omg I can't believe you used the same term I did!!! My post took forever to actually post (like 2 min) and I bet we typed it at the same time!! Right after I hit send I started to worry maybe it would not be received well in your culture and then I had to laugh when you used the exact same words!!!!!!

Happy CNY! The booms have been going on for 80 minutes and don't seem ready to stop.

Happy Chinese and Vietnamese NY to you too!! JEEEEEESUS!! The fireworks have been going on for the last hour and a half here too (so 1 1/2 hrs ago must have been when the C/V NY officially started!!). And just abt 3 mins ago, it started in EARNEST!! Seriously the noise is DEAFENING here and the LIGHT!! OMG!! I've NEVER *ONCE* seen anything quite like this, not when we lived in VN, not in Hong Kong, not in Singapore. Nowhere else, seriously!! That is SOME FIREWORKS!! BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!

Kitty is scared!! Poor little thing is burying her had against me. She's so scared. Poor little kitty!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

(cvny threadjack lol)

my driver lives down town and they formally start to celebrate at 10pm at his family''s house and he said it sounds like a war ALL NIGHT LONG there. 3am, 5am, 7am - all night the booming goes on. I wish I could see the fireworks I hear - the ones I saw were just the ones over the school''s field bought by people at stands - my guess is most of what is going on right now is just random people (but so many of them!!!) just shooting things off over jinshitan. I''m about an hour from downtown - I can''t even imagine down there!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 11:05:41 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
(cvny threadjack lol)

my driver lives down town and they formally start to celebrate at 10pm at his family's house and he said it sounds like a war ALL NIGHT LONG there. 3am, 5am, 7am - all night the booming goes on. I wish I could see the fireworks I hear - the ones I saw were just the ones over the school's field bought by people at stands - my guess is most of what is going on right now is just random people (but so many of them!!!) just shooting things off over jinshitan. I'm about an hour from downtown - I can't even imagine down there!!!!

I wanted to say "WAR" too (having seen it first hand in VN) but didn't want to offend anyone. But you know what, it sounds and looks like a darn war!! I can see all kinds of fireworks out of the front and back windows!! GOOD LORD!! Consider yourself lucky that you can't seem them. I don't think I like it, kitty certainly doesn't! DH says it will carry on like this ALL night!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:44:08 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
omg I can''t believe you used the same term I did!!! My post took forever to actually post (like 2 min) and I bet we typed it at the same time!! Right after I hit send I started to worry maybe it would not be received well in your culture and then I had to laugh when you used the exact same words!!!!!!

Happy CNY! The booms have been going on for 80 minutes and don''t seem ready to stop.

Ha ha, what can I say, I must be too westernised!! Seriously though, my mom would be FURIOUS!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2010 11:15:08 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/13/2010 11:05:41 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

(cvny threadjack lol)


my driver lives down town and they formally start to celebrate at 10pm at his family''s house and he said it sounds like a war ALL NIGHT LONG there. 3am, 5am, 7am - all night the booming goes on. I wish I could see the fireworks I hear - the ones I saw were just the ones over the school''s field bought by people at stands - my guess is most of what is going on right now is just random people (but so many of them!!!) just shooting things off over jinshitan. I''m about an hour from downtown - I can''t even imagine down there!!!!

I wanted to say ''WAR'' too (having seen it first hand in VN) but didn''t want to offend anyone. But you know what, it sounds and looks like a darn war!! I can see all kinds of fireworks out of the front and back windows!! GOOD LORD!! Consider yourself lucky that you can''t seem them. I don''t think I like it, kitty certainly doesn''t! DH says it will carry on like this ALL night!

Date: 2/13/2010 11:15:08 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/13/2010 11:05:41 AM

Author: Cehrabehra

(cvny threadjack lol)


my driver lives down town and they formally start to celebrate at 10pm at his family''s house and he said it sounds like a war ALL NIGHT LONG there. 3am, 5am, 7am - all night the booming goes on. I wish I could see the fireworks I hear - the ones I saw were just the ones over the school''s field bought by people at stands - my guess is most of what is going on right now is just random people (but so many of them!!!) just shooting things off over jinshitan. I''m about an hour from downtown - I can''t even imagine down there!!!!

I wanted to say ''WAR'' too (having seen it first hand in VN) but didn''t want to offend anyone. But you know what, it sounds and looks like a darn war!! I can see all kinds of fireworks out of the front and back windows!! GOOD LORD!! Consider yourself lucky that you can''t seem them. I don''t think I like it, kitty certainly doesn''t! DH says it will carry on like this ALL night!

they just did the midnight fireworks here where we''re living but we live kinda out in the country, relatively speaking. No skyscrapers within view. But there is a downtown to this little area (maybe 100k people?) and they''re partying big time. I can''t imagine shanghai!!!

Sorry I diverted you - but it''s kinda fun sharing this with you kind of live while everyone else is... maybe not still asleep but still trying to grab their coffee lol

KEEP THE RING!!! find a way

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 9:51:29 AM
Author: y2kitty
I second Amethyste's evil plan!

Is evil SIL American?

I wish!! Evil B is Vietnamese.

This is really ironic. When we were younger, my parents used to wish that we'd all marry Vietnamese. Some of us went against their wishes. I married DH, an American for one. My parents soon found out that DH treated me and my family better than any other man of whatever nationality or ethinicity (sp?) would have (though my Vietnamese brothers in law are also wonderful, I have to add). On the contrary though, they had such high hopes for Evil SIL *because* she was Vietnamese, but it all turned out pretty ugly!

 

[lyra]

Is it possible to have a true replica of the ring made? So at the very least, you could keep the original. If the setting was the same, with real diamonds, would she even know? I''m grasping here, because it sounds like the only way for you to keep the real ring, satisfy your dad and the evil one.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:33:27 AM
Author: joflier
Does your Dad know how much this ring means to you? Just reading the part of your story about how your SIL is maybe letting her ice thaw a little bit....maybe he doesn't realize how attached you are to it, and is just searching for any way possible to keep his son and grandsons closer in his life? Even if that means gifting the nasty wife?
If you haven't told him how much this means to you - I'd say now is the time. Lay it out there, girl! And perhaps even tell him that your just not comfortable with whom it would be going to and why. Good luck.

I think this is *exactly* what's going on. Poor dad is trying so very hard to keep his son and grandsons in his life and even if this means upsetting me, then so be it. I suspect that dad knows that I'll never write him out of my life and that he'll always be my dad, that I will always love him regardless of whatever.

I just so wish I didn't have to deal with Nasty Evil B, even if indirectly.

It may just be that I'd have to write him an email, explaining things to him. Yes, that's it. I may have to chicken out and told him how I feel in an email. I *just* cannot tell him directly, not even over a long distance call.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:33:09 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
but you CAN say no, you SHOULD say no, and if you DON''T say no you will regret it and likely resent your father for it... that is so much worse than saying no!!!!

Too true!

 

[joflier]

Date: 2/13/2010 11:36:51 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/13/2010 10:33:27 AM
Author: joflier
Does your Dad know how much this ring means to you? Just reading the part of your story about how your SIL is maybe letting her ice thaw a little bit....maybe he doesn''t realize how attached you are to it, and is just searching for any way possible to keep his son and grandsons closer in his life? Even if that means gifting the nasty wife?
If you haven''t told him how much this means to you - I''d say now is the time. Lay it out there, girl! And perhaps even tell him that your just not comfortable with whom it would be going to and why. Good luck.

I think this is *exactly* what''s going on. Poor dad is trying so very hard to keep his son and grandsons in his life and even if this means upsetting me, then so be it. I suspect that dad knows that I''ll never write him out of my life and that he''ll always be my dad, that I will always love him regardless of whatever.

I just so wish I didn''t have to deal with Nasty Evil B, even if indirectly.

It may just be that I''d have to write him an email, explaining things to him. Yes, that''s it. I may have to chicken out and told him how I feel in an email. I *just* cannot tell him directly, not even over a long distance call.

I think that''s better than just swallowing it up and keeping it inside. I think that if you give in, or don''t even speak your peace, your going to be hurting yourself. It''s all the jewelry you have left from your mom. This is a moment where its OK for you to be selfish.
Although - if I may ask, why are you so afraid to talk to him about it?

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/13/2010 10:40:51 AM
Author: Cehrabehra


You are not plannig to have children, right Phoenix? Why not ask for the earrings and promise to give them to her or her children in your will? I know it sounds a bit morbid but it's a thought... also please don't give that woman your mother's ring - I'm quite sure your mom would turn in her grave!!!

Well, to tell you the truth, we've been TTC but so far, no luck! We may very well adopt, esp now that we live in China where it must be relatively less hard trying to adopt a little girl or two.

It's not morbid at all. In fact, I've already planned to give all of my bling, if we still don't have kids, to my nieces. The other sister I mentioned, the super duper nice one, the one that my mom and dad have always leant on (in addition to me); well, her daughter is going to get a chunk of our estate, even if we do end up with kids. That's a promise I've made to my sister.