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Fake OEC ?

natascha

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Do fake old cut diamonds exist?

I know there is at least one company selling CZ OEC, but is this rare? How can you see if it is a diamond or a simulant?

The reason I ask is that I sometimes buy jewelry containing OEC or OMC diamonds that are not marked as diamonds and priced as if it were fake stones. I am pretty careful and they have always checked out as real diamonds.

I would like to know if taking the care I do I could sometime be wrong and end up buying a mcfakey. Also if there is something else I should be doing to check if the stones are real before buying.

If I find a piece with whitish stones with OEC or OMC cuts then I first look at if they react/look like diamonds.

Second I see if I can date the piece reliably. If it has legible Swedish stamps I access some databases to check year, maker and city. If they are no longer legible or the piece is not Swedish then I try to date from the model and workmanship. I also look for any indications of swapped stones.

Now I attack the stones with a loupe. First I look for facet abrasions, then a bruted girdle and possible chips, then I search for inclusions. If the setting makes it possible it I check the color too.

Doing the above I can distinguish real from fake if the piece is made before the 70s (or at least I have not been wrong yet). But what if I have just been lucky to not encounter a good fake? And what if good CZ starts appearing in old cuts?
 

natascha

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I have found a new contender. Did not have that much time to look at it today but it seems to check out. Definitively an antique setting, classic OEC of roughly 0.4-0.7ct surrounded by 10 Oec around 3-5 pointers and then smaller stones down the shank. The center stone has a thin bruited girdle, no facet abrasions, very clean stone, I would say the color is in the I region. The setting is missing one stone in the shank and it is partly black under the gallery.

What do you guys think?

new OEC.png
 

Karl_K

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oec cut white sapphire was not uncommon back in the day, and oec CZ has been around a long time also.
 

natascha

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Karl_K|1317576820|3031280 said:
oec cut white sapphire was not uncommon back in the day, and oec CZ has been around a long time also.

Thank you Karl for chiming in. I know white sapphires ( and spinels) have been done in OEC cuts in that period but they are not hard to separate from real diamonds. Until seeing ashas I had not thought about that CZ could be cut into OEC. I guess I am wondering about the probability of encountering one of those in a period piece. And could they have a bruted girdle?

Oh my expression the first time I encountered a YAL must have been a hoot. I just think they look so weird.
 

Circe

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Two additional tests you might run are a blacklight, and checking the girdle - if it's faceted or bruted, it's probably real, if it's polished smooth, it's pretty much always a CZ (or, at least, I have yet to hear of an exception). But it sounds like you're exercising caution and, hey, buying at prices that would be reasonable if they were McFakies, so I think you're in good shape!
 

LGK

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Circe|1317585536|3031373 said:
Two additional tests you might run are a blacklight, and checking the girdle - if it's faceted or bruted, it's probably real, if it's polished smooth, it's pretty much always a CZ (or, at least, I have yet to hear of an exception). But it sounds like you're exercising caution and, hey, buying at prices that would be reasonable if they were McFakies, so I think you're in good shape!
What Circe said. The smooth polished girdle on round shaped stones is almost always the easiest giveaway.

I haven't found any OEC-cut CZs unexpectedly in any estate jewelry yet. Doesn't mean they aren't out there, I'm sure, but except for the ones we see on, say, the Bistro and such, nope. Nothing yet. So I'd say odds are pretty long. I have once or twice found a round brilliant cut CZ mismarked as a diamond here or there in estate jewelry, however. An OEC though? Not yet.
 

yssie

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Paste is another one I see on antiques sites.

You do sound like you buy carefully and have everything checked out post-purchase, so I'd say you're doing everything you should. Just be sure not to buy without a return policy you are comfortable with :)) That ring is really pretty!
 

Dreamer_D

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The fake old cuts out there will I think be very symmetrical too, more akin to AVC or AVRs than to wonky old cuts. So I bet if there is a little wonkiness that might suggest real diamond, as well.
 

natascha

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Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ? Blacklights hmm, they think I am weird now that I loupe the jewlery. I wonder how they would react if I come in with a black light. That reminds me, I want to get a loupe, calipers and an aset to play with. Christmas list, anyone? :lol:
My best buy yet is my OEC, 0.85ct ca, in the original great condition 1928 solitare for the lovely price of $200 :D


LGK- That sounds great! I guess I will just continue being careful ( and calculating how much I would get scrap value if I would be wrong sometime). Since you are very knowledgeable about antique stones and jewelry, and can sell for a low commission, why don't you start buying and selling? (Since I am in Sweden when I sell stuff the auction house takes 40-50% :nono: ).

Yssie- There is some beautiful paste jewelry out there! Thing is I can't convince myself that it is mind clean enough to wear. Since I buy at auctions there is no return period, which sucks. I wish I lived in the US and could buy from so many different places, ship stuff back and forth, ebay, etc. The only market here for second hand and antique jewelry is through pawn shops and auction houses. By the way I can't wait to see what your reset is going to look like.

DreamerD- Great point! I had not thought of that. Most old cuts are not perfectly symmetrical, in fact I have never seen one. Thank you!
 

maplefemme

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natascha|1317588658|3031427 said:
Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ? Blacklights hmm, they think I am weird now that I loupe the jewlery. I wonder how they would react if I come in with a black light. That reminds me, I want to get a loupe, calipers and an aset to play with. Christmas list, anyone? :lol:
My best buy yet is my OEC, 0.85ct ca, in the original great condition 1928 solitare for the lovely price of $200 :D


LGK- That sounds great! I guess I will just continue being careful ( and calculating how much I would get scrap value if I would be wrong sometime). Since you are very knowledgeable about antique stones and jewelry, and can sell for a low commission, why don't you start buying and selling? (Since I am in Sweden when I sell stuff the auction house takes 40-50% :nono: ).

Yssie- There is some beautiful paste jewelry out there! Thing is I can't convince myself that it is mind clean enough to wear. Since I buy at auctions there is no return period, which sucks. I wish I lived in the US and could buy from so many different places, ship stuff back and forth, ebay, etc. The only market here for second hand and antique jewelry is through pawn shops and auction houses. By the way I can't wait to see what your reset is going to look like.

DreamerD- Great point! I had not thought of that. Most old cuts are not perfectly symmetrical, in fact I have never seen one. Thank you!

I agree! I also do not put them in the same class/category as CZs, I consider them historic works of art in their own right, if they are good enough for Marie Antoinette - good enough for me :D
I just purchased two stunning pairs of Georgian paste earrings from an antiques dealer in London, I would like to post them in the Antique & Vintage jewelry section when they arrive but I'm not sure if I'm allowed, can any of the mods tell me, please?
 

Circe

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maplefemme|1317590284|3031450 said:
natascha|1317588658|3031427 said:
Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ? Blacklights hmm, they think I am weird now that I loupe the jewlery. I wonder how they would react if I come in with a black light. That reminds me, I want to get a loupe, calipers and an aset to play with. Christmas list, anyone? :lol:
My best buy yet is my OEC, 0.85ct ca, in the original great condition 1928 solitare for the lovely price of $200 :D


LGK- That sounds great! I guess I will just continue being careful ( and calculating how much I would get scrap value if I would be wrong sometime). Since you are very knowledgeable about antique stones and jewelry, and can sell for a low commission, why don't you start buying and selling? (Since I am in Sweden when I sell stuff the auction house takes 40-50% :nono: ).

Yssie- There is some beautiful paste jewelry out there! Thing is I can't convince myself that it is mind clean enough to wear. Since I buy at auctions there is no return period, which sucks. I wish I lived in the US and could buy from so many different places, ship stuff back and forth, ebay, etc. The only market here for second hand and antique jewelry is through pawn shops and auction houses. By the way I can't wait to see what your reset is going to look like.

DreamerD- Great point! I had not thought of that. Most old cuts are not perfectly symmetrical, in fact I have never seen one. Thank you!

I agree! I also do not put them in the same class/category as CZs, I consider them historic works of art in their own right, if they are good enough for Marie Antoinette - good enough for me :D
I just purchased two stunning pairs of Georgian paste earrings from an antiques dealer in London, I would like to post them in the Antique & Vintage jewelry section when they arrive but I'm not sure if I'm allowed, can any of the mods tell me, please?

I asked a similar question a while ago and I believe Ella answered in the affirmative, that paste was okay because it was pretty clear what it was and there was no attempt at dissimulation or passing the pieces off as "real."
 

yssie

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natascha|1317588658|3031427 said:
Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ? Blacklights hmm, they think I am weird now that I loupe the jewlery. I wonder how they would react if I come in with a black light. That reminds me, I want to get a loupe, calipers and an aset to play with. Christmas list, anyone? :lol:
My best buy yet is my OEC, 0.85ct ca, in the original great condition 1928 solitare for the lovely price of $200 :D


LGK- That sounds great! I guess I will just continue being careful ( and calculating how much I would get scrap value if I would be wrong sometime). Since you are very knowledgeable about antique stones and jewelry, and can sell for a low commission, why don't you start buying and selling? (Since I am in Sweden when I sell stuff the auction house takes 40-50% :nono: ).

Yssie- There is some beautiful paste jewelry out there! Thing is I can't convince myself that it is mind clean enough to wear. Since I buy at auctions there is no return period, which sucks. I wish I lived in the US and could buy from so many different places, ship stuff back and forth, ebay, etc. The only market here for second hand and antique jewelry is through pawn shops and auction houses. By the way I can't wait to see what your reset is going to look like.

DreamerD- Great point! I had not thought of that. Most old cuts are not perfectly symmetrical, in fact I have never seen one. Thank you!



Oh my goodness yes, there is! There was a pair of antique paste earring danglies that I was drooling over on Ruby Lane some time ago - they were stunning. I just can't get over the fact that they aren't diamonds, even though they're real antiques, and not intended as fakes :sick:
 

lewood

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I feel kind of foolish askin this, but what is "paste" jewelry???
 

Circe

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lewood|1317591830|3031469 said:
I feel kind of foolish askin this, but what is "paste" jewelry???

Paste, or strass, jewels were glass "gems" (occasionally foil-backed) that were basically high-end simulants back in the day. I'm reading a book that Coati recommended on diamond cutting, and Al Gilbertson, the author, says that the brilliance displayed by paste "diamonds," which could be cut with regard to appearance and effect as opposed to carat weight and value, actually helped to encourage advances in optimal cutting!
 

lewood

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Thanks! Do antique sellers try and sell paste jewels as real oec diamonds? Gosh, a whole new worry to deal with now!
 

maplefemme

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Circe|1317590767|3031454 said:
maplefemme|1317590284|3031450 said:
natascha|1317588658|3031427 said:
Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ? Blacklights hmm, they think I am weird now that I loupe the jewlery. I wonder how they would react if I come in with a black light. That reminds me, I want to get a loupe, calipers and an aset to play with. Christmas list, anyone? :lol:
My best buy yet is my OEC, 0.85ct ca, in the original great condition 1928 solitare for the lovely price of $200 :D


LGK- That sounds great! I guess I will just continue being careful ( and calculating how much I would get scrap value if I would be wrong sometime). Since you are very knowledgeable about antique stones and jewelry, and can sell for a low commission, why don't you start buying and selling? (Since I am in Sweden when I sell stuff the auction house takes 40-50% :nono: ).

Yssie- There is some beautiful paste jewelry out there! Thing is I can't convince myself that it is mind clean enough to wear. Since I buy at auctions there is no return period, which sucks. I wish I lived in the US and could buy from so many different places, ship stuff back and forth, ebay, etc. The only market here for second hand and antique jewelry is through pawn shops and auction houses. By the way I can't wait to see what your reset is going to look like.

DreamerD- Great point! I had not thought of that. Most old cuts are not perfectly symmetrical, in fact I have never seen one. Thank you!

I agree! I also do not put them in the same class/category as CZs, I consider them historic works of art in their own right, if they are good enough for Marie Antoinette - good enough for me :D
I just purchased two stunning pairs of Georgian paste earrings from an antiques dealer in London, I would like to post them in the Antique & Vintage jewelry section when they arrive but I'm not sure if I'm allowed, can any of the mods tell me, please?

I asked a similar question a while ago and I believe Ella answered in the affirmative, that paste was okay because it was pretty clear what it was and there was no attempt at dissimulation or passing the pieces off as "real."

Thank you Circe! I'll post pics when they arrive. They took me forever to find, seems like every time I find a pair I like, they have already sold :(sad
Yssie, Ruby Lane has a few posted that I love and they are all sold, such a tease!
 

natascha

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lewood|1317592187|3031475 said:
Thanks! Do antique sellers try and sell paste jewels as real oec diamonds? Gosh, a whole new worry to deal with now!

No, no, no they are not trying to sell paste as diamonds. No need to worry about that.

The reason for this thread is that very rarely real diamonds are sold as fakes and I love finding these deals :naughty: . With paste and other stimulants existing during the era that OMC and OEC were cut you can see the difference from real diamonds. However they are now (and been doing it some years?) cutting CZ like OEC, so that is why I posted this thread.
 

Karl_K

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natascha|1317588658|3031427 said:
Circe- I always check the girdle. It is a relief that they aren't doing CZ with bruted girdles. Is that even possible? To get a bruted edge on a CZ?
yes it is if someone wanted to.
The mass produced ones usually have a polished to frosted girdle with no facets.
You will not find an expert who will give you a professional opinion based on a photo.
 
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