Excellent Cut?

[deke14]

I''m about to finally pull the trigger on a diamond GIA cert.

Cut: Excellent
Clarity: SI 1
Color: I
Carat: 2.03

Problem is that I''m a little confused as to why this is graded as "Excellent".
Depth: 60.8
Table: 61
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavilion: 41.6

I know the table is a little big but GIA and AGS are now including some 61% tables as excellent cuts I believe. The stone looked great, but when I check those dimensions on the Pricescope Cutadviser it doesnt return good values.

Can anyone help me understand this?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/21/2008 12:09:36 PM
Author:deke14
I'm about to finally pull the trigger on a diamond GIA cert.

Cut: Excellent
Clarity: SI 1
Color: I
Carat: 2.03

Problem is that I'm a little confused as to why this is graded as 'Excellent'.
Depth: 60.8
Table: 61
Crown Angle: 33.5
Pavilion: 41.6

I know the table is a little big but GIA and AGS are now including some 61% tables as excellent cuts I believe. The stone looked great, but when I check those dimensions on the Pricescope Cutadviser it doesnt return good values.

Can anyone help me understand this?

Welcome!

The Cut advisor can penalize a stone with a steep pavilion angle as is the case here, however it is likely you can find a better performing diamond than this one. GIA Excellent cut grade is broad so each diamond needs to be evaluated on its own proportions as it can allow for some lesser performing stones, can you get an Idealscope image for this diamond? Also do you have any other diamonds in mind and who is selling this one?

If you give us an idea of budget and what you are looking for, maybe we could find you some alternatives if you would like?

 

[deke14]

I''ve done months of research, mostly through the amazing info here on Pricescope and was going to buy from an online vendor. But then a friend of mine hooked me up with a great B&M who gave me the best B&M price I''ve seen. The actual stone might me only very slightly above the online vendors but including the setting it seems to be right in-line, so i figured I might as well buy the stone I"ve already seen.

The stone I mentioned is $14900. My max price is just about $15k. Whats your thoughts?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/21/2008 1:05:22 PM
Author: deke14
I've done months of research, mostly through the amazing info here on Pricescope and was going to buy from an online vendor. But then a friend of mine hooked me up with a great B&M who gave me the best B&M price I've seen. The actual stone might me only very slightly above the online vendors but including the setting it seems to be right in-line, so i figured I might as well buy the stone I've already seen.

The stone I mentioned is $14900. My max price is just about $15k. Whats your thoughts?

Well it does not appear to be the best cut diamond due to the pavilion angle, ideally it would be more in the 40.6 to 41 range roughly with that crown angle. I would see if you can find some others unless you really want this one, it is cut which gives a diamond its beauty, many lesser cut stones can look good in jewellery store lights but then not so good away from them. Here are some numbers you can use to help you find some well cut round diamonds. You can use these as a guide, and ask the jeweller if he can show you some AGS0 cut grade or some more GIA Excellent, get the proportions of each one as you did previously then report back here and we can go from there.


depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above


note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Here's a "Cliff's Notes" for angle combinations with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.


GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

Also when shopping for diamonds in person, you can order a beginner Idealscope for $25 which is invaluable for helping you find better cut diamonds.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

Lastly if you are really wanting to buy this diamond, check out some diamonds of known cut quality such as AGS0 cut grade or Hearts on Fire brand so you can see how a well cut stone ' behaves' as a baseline comparison, and check this particular one out away from the jewellery store lighting so you can see how it will look when being worn in everyday lighting.

 

[girlie-girl]

What is the setting like that is included in that price?

 

[deke14]

Thank you thats very helpful. I actually did see it away from your normal B&M lights though and it looked great to me, however i''m still not an expert at eyeballing these things. Even if it is slightly less than ideal cut does it sound like the stone is a good value at that price with all the other info i''ve given you?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/21/2008 1:31:13 PM
Author: deke14
Thank you thats very helpful. I actually did see it away from your normal B&M lights though and it looked great to me, however i'm still not an expert at eyeballing these things. Even if it is slightly less than ideal cut does it sound like the stone is a good value at that price with all the other info i've given you?

Deke, to be honest unless you really like this one, I would compare with some other diamonds of known cut quality before pulling the trigger. Unless you have looked at many diamonds, it is easy to see one and think it looks good if you don't have a comparison of well cut stones to base this opinion on. The diamond scored very poorly on the cut advisor, in part because of the pavilion angle, but it scored low enough to make me advise you to proceed with caution. The table size isn't the issue so much, but it is the angles which are the crucial factor. Now I haven't seen this diamond and I am basing this advice on what I have learned over the years from the experts and my fellow prosumers on Pricescope, so bear that in mind. I would suggest looking at some other stones - as I suggested AGS0 or some Hearts on Fire if there is a dealer near you ( Jareds sells AGS0 cut grade if there is one near you so you can take a look). Also ask your jeweller to show you some other diamonds so you can really get a good idea of how this one compares. It will be worth doing this and taking your time so that you know you bought a diamond which will be beautiful that you and your fiancee will treasure and enjoy for many years to come!

 

[deke14]

Thats actually just the stone price, he quoted me $650 on a platinum 4-prong setting, but I think he will come down in price for the stone a little to make the total closer to $15k.

Although I feel like I''ve learned a lot about stones themselves. I dont know much about setting other than my gf wants a traditional platinum 4-prong, (basket set?, i think thats the low one?)

 

[deke14]

I''m looking at a similar stone in my price range but it AGS SI-2 instead of SI-1...is AGS SI-2 generally "eye clean". And from what I''ve read AGS is just as strict as GIA right? Whats strange is that in NYC diamond distrcit not many people have AGS diamonds and a lot don''t even know about them.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/21/2008 1:53:03 PM
Author: deke14
I'm looking at a similar stone in my price range but it AGS SI-2 instead of SI-1...is AGS SI-2 generally 'eye clean'. And from what I've read AGS is just as strict as GIA right? Whats strange is that in NYC diamond distrcit not many people have AGS diamonds and a lot don't even know about them.

AGS are considered to have very reliable standards on cut grading, also they are well respected as are GIA for colour and clarity grading. SI clarities are not created equal especially with larger diamonds there is a chance that the diamond may not be eyeclean or meet your standards of eyeclean, but it is certainly worth taking a look!

Here is a page which might be helpful concerning how the grading labs rank.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp