Wedding etiquette question

[ponderer]

My SIL and her husband are invited to a wedding. My SIL desperately wants to go, but her husband does not want to go. SIL does not want to go alone, she is not sure she will know anyone else there. My SIL wants me to go with her in her husbands place. I do know the bride, through my SIL, but have not seen her in many years.

Is it OK to go as a substitute guest?

 

[Haven]

The answer to your question depends on how the invitation was addressed. My guess is that it was addressed to your SIL and her husband by name (e.g. Mr. and Mrs. Winchester Patooty") rather than to your SIL plus "guest" (e.g. Cecilia Patooty and Guest")

If it was addressed to the couple by name, then the answer is: No, you may not attend as a substitute guest. And please don''t allow her to call the couple to ask if she can substitute you for her husband, that would be very rude. Remember, these are invitations to a wedding and not tickets to a show, after all.

If it was addressed to your SIL plus a guest, then the answer is: Yes, your SIL may bring whomever she damn well pleases--you, Bozo the Clown, the obnoxious 14-year-old from next door, anyone.

 

[ponderer]

I asked a simple question and did not expect a rude reply.

A simple yes or no would have been fine.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/26/2008 10:50:08 PM
Author: ponderer
I asked a simple question and did not expect a rude reply.


A simple yes or no would have been fine.

I don't think she was being rude, she was just telling you the answer...it's just not a simple yes or no.

 

[Haven]

I''m shocked that you thought my reply was rude. I was simply trying to answer your question, and provided the information you needed for two very different possible scenarios.

Please tell me what you think was rude, as I am in absolute shock right now.

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/26/2008 10:51:31 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 5/26/2008 10:50:08 PM

Author: ponderer

I asked a simple question and did not expect a rude reply.



A simple yes or no would have been fine.

I don''t think she was being rude, she was just telling you the answer...it''s just not a simple yes or no.

Thanks, Neatfreak! I''m dumbfounded over here, so it was nice to see that someone else didn''t interpret my response in the same way.

Sheesh. You try to help someone out and look what you get.

 

[FrekeChild]

I didn''t find it rude either Haven. I''m in shock as well.

 

[ponderer]

Date: 5/26/2008 10:37:59 PM
Author: Haven
The answer to your question depends on how the invitation was addressed. My guess is that it was addressed to your SIL and her husband by name (e.g. Mr. and Mrs. Winchester Patooty'') rather than to your SIL plus ''guest'' (e.g. Cecilia Patooty and Guest'')

If it was addressed to the couple by name, then the answer is: No, you may not attend as a substitute guest. And please don''t allow her to call the couple to ask if she can substitute you for her husband, that would be very rude. Remember, these are invitations to a wedding and not tickets to a show, after all.

If it was addressed to your SIL plus a guest, then the answer is: Yes, your SIL may bring whomever she damn well pleases--you, Bozo the Clown, the obnoxious 14-year-old from next door, anyone.

Sorry, I have never been cursed at in this forum before.

 

[KimberlyH]

Ponderer, I don''t think Haven was cursing at you, Haven wouldn''t curse at anyone, she''s too polite for that; she answered your questions, quite thoroughly. I''ll say it again in different words, in case her point was lost...if the invitation was addressed to your SIL and her husband it would be extremely rude to go in his place, or even inquire as to whether or not it was acceptable for you to do so. If it was addressed to SIL "and guest" it would be fine for her to take you.

 

[Haven]

I apologize if you took offense to that language. I suppose the lighthearted tone I intended did not translate well. I was not, however, cursing AT you. I think that was quite clear.

PS is getting a bit more sensitive lately, I certainly hope this doesn''t make people think twice before sharing their ideas.

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/26/2008 11:06:04 PM
Author: KimberlyH
Ponderer, I don''t think Haven was cursing at you, Haven wouldn''t curse at anyone, she''s too polite for that; she answered your questions, quite thoroughly. I''ll say it again in different words, in case her point was lost...if the invitation was addressed to your SIL and her husband it would be extremely rude to go in his place, or even inquire as to whether or not it was acceptable for you to do so. If it was addressed to SIL ''and guest'' it would be fine for her to take you.

Thanks, Kimberly. Now I''m just utterly embarrassed about the whole thing. The last thing I would do here (or in real life, if we''re being honest) is curse at someone.

I suppose I take it for granted that posters asking etiquette questions are familiar with the snarkiness we see in Miss Manners and her fellow etiquette mavens.

Again, I apologize Ponderer.

 

[ponderer]

It simply wasnt the use of the word, damn. The lighthearted intent did not translate well, and always rereading your posts before you submit is a good idea. I guess i took it the wrong way because i have seen in many posts here that many brides blow up over even small breaches in ettiquette and it appeared you were lumping me with bozo (stupid for even asking the question) and the neighbor (abnoxious for even asking the question).

 

[ponderer]

haven,

I appreciate you apology, and understand now that that you were trying to be lighthearted and colorful in your response.

I am sorry that I upset you that you upset me.

(sorry if that makes no sense, but I cant think of how else to put it)

 

[FrekeChild]

Oy. I can''t imagine Haven swearing at anyone online or in real life...now me on the other hand, I''m about on par with sailors...

I think it was pretty obvious that she was being lighthearted. Perhaps maybe people shouldn''t take things so seriously before they post retorts as well.

I hope, Haven, that the sensitivity doesn''t escalate either. Otherwise surfgirl, deco, tgal, hollys and others are going to be in deep doo doo and offending EVERYONE left and right.

 

[Haven]

No harm done, either way it seems.

I waited until I made 2,000 posts to get a bit playful because I realize how easily things can get misinterpreted. My few friends who read PS always say how strange my posts are to them because they are so dry which is so not me. Dry seems to be safer, I suppose.

Just for the record, my reference to the clown and the young boy was just an illustration of how free one can be with their choice of guest if they are indeed invited "and guest". I am obviously extremely biased against this type of invitation, as it gives your guests utter control over who they invite, hence the clown reference. I was showing disdain for the practice of inviting "and guest" and not toward you for asking the question in the first place.

For some reason your name seemed familiar to me and I thought you were a more frequent poster. I always feel like PS regulars are less likely to misinterpret a post as being snarky when it certainly is not.

 

[Haven]

Date: 5/26/2008 11:24:30 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Oy. I can''t imagine Haven swearing at anyone online or in real life...now me on the other hand, I''m about on par with sailors...


I think it was pretty obvious that she was being lighthearted. Perhaps maybe people shouldn''t take things so seriously before they post retorts as well.


I hope, Haven, that the sensitivity doesn''t escalate either. Otherwise surfgirl, deco, tgal, hollys and others are going to be in deep doo doo and offending EVERYONE left and right.

Thanks, Freke!

It''s so funny that you mention our dear friends because when I read Ponderer''s original response I thought to myself how ironic it was that someone thought I was being rude because I am generally so diplomatic compared to other posters. (And I love them for it, I do! Somebody has to be brutally honest around here!)

 

[Deelight]

Haven is like of the go-to girl about wedding etiquette

And Haven for the record nope don''t think you were being rude either

 

[VRBeauty]

The rudeness of the response question having been dealt with with apologies all around, I''ll not venture there.

However, I think the original response may have been a little extreme in its intent.

First, I don''t really understand adults who can''t attend a wedding alone -- even if they don''t know any of the other guest -- for the honor being part of the blessed event and the expectation that they might just find people interesting and kind enough to chit-chat with them for the few hours involved in the reception. Unless your SIL is painfully, chronically shy, why could she not attend on her own with the expectation that she will have a good time and if not, she can leave after a decent interval?

Having said that, I don''t agree that it is alway a breach of etiquette to ask the inviter whether another person can attend instead of a named invitee; I think it depends in part on the relationship between the inviter and the invitee. Suppose, for example, that the brida couple is close to SIL but barely know SIL''s DH. What they want is SIL''s presence at their wedding. She''s inviting SIL''s DH -- by name -- only because she feels that etiquette dictates inviting him by name. Let''s assume that SIL is painfully too shy (or just not confident enough) to attend without a playmate in hand, and declines because she has been told that etiquette prevents her the option of attending with someone other than DH. I''m not a betting person, but I believe the odds are good that the happy couple would be moritfied to find that their dear friend chose not to attend, rather than risking the wrath of the ettiquette gods (and goddesses) by inquiring about the possibility of attending with someone else.

If the happy couple-to-be is closer to SIL''s DH, and invited SIL only because etiquette dictates, well... that is a different matter!

 

[diamondfan]

Tough call. I am not a shy person AT ALL and go to MANY events sans hubby is he is traveling, and if I know people I am fine, and even if I don''t, I usually make out okay as I am chatty and like to meet people. However, or BUT, I have gone alone to weddings and it does kinda stink.

That said, if your sis in law feels comfy saying, Hey, hubby has to be away that weekend, may my sis, blank, who you know, come instead? I mean, if it is a good pal, the worst the bride to be can say is NO. (I would have sis in law tell a white lie, as telling her her hubby doesn''t want to attend may not go over well, just a thought!)

If she is not super close, then, hey, maybe she is not going to go either. I agree generally it is a bit rude to sub someone, but, I would prefer someone do it if that means they will attend. If I am assuming I am having two people anyway...but I do totally see how if it is a named person and not an "and guest", one is treading a kind of fine line.

But I must add, I tend to be pretty much a stickler when it comes to rules and etiquette, and the times have relaxed on some things to a degree. I would not make a blanket statement about never or always, but would have to know the whole situation, how close you guys are, what type of wedding it is...since my first inclination is it is not really the best idea but there might be extenuating circumstances.

 

[Sabine]

Although it''s against etiquette, I agree that if your sister really wants to go but doesn''t want to go by herself, it wouldn''t be too bad for her to call and ask if she can bring you instead of her husband. If a friend of mine did that, I wouldn''t mind, and would rather them come with a friend than not at all.

 

[Neveah]

While Haven is exactly right in her etiquette explanation I have to tell you what happened at my wedding 2 weeks ago...

A good friend from college responded "no" that she couldn''t make it. I was so disapointed... but of course I wasn''t going to bug her about why she couldn''t come.
She emailed me congratulations after the wedding and said she was so sorry she couldn''t make it but her husband was out of town....didn''t feel comfortable coming alone and didn''t want to "breach etiquette" by asking if she could bring someone in his place.

I really wish she would have! I SO would rather have had her bring her sister, cousin, whomever so she wouldn''t have missed my wedding! So sometimes, really etiquette, schmettiquette!!!

Maybe an email would be a better way to go about it than a phone call? That way if the bride is really opposed she has some time to read the email and think about her reply rather than get caught off guard on the phone? And your sister in law could simply write that? That she didn''t want to pressure her on the phone but she really wants to come... blah blah. Good luck!

 

[Courtneylub]

Date: 5/27/2008 10:57:18 PM
Author: Neveah
While Haven is exactly right in her etiquette explanation I have to tell you what happened at my wedding 2 weeks ago...

A good friend from college responded ''no'' that she couldn''t make it. I was so disapointed... but of course I wasn''t going to bug her about why she couldn''t come.
She emailed me congratulations after the wedding and said she was so sorry she couldn''t make it but her husband was out of town....didn''t feel comfortable coming alone and didn''t want to ''breach etiquette'' by asking if she could bring someone in his place.

I really wish she would have! I SO would rather have had her bring her sister, cousin, whomever so she wouldn''t have missed my wedding! So sometimes, really etiquette, schmettiquette!!!

Maybe an email would be a better way to go about it than a phone call? That way if the bride is really opposed she has some time to read the email and think about her reply rather than get caught off guard on the phone? And your sister in law could simply write that? That she didn''t want to pressure her on the phone but she really wants to come... blah blah. Good luck!

VERY good point, Neveah!! I love that you''ve shown an example of how etiquette can be our enemy. I think so many PSers are black and white on the etiquette front.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/28/2008 9:16:03 AM
Author: Courtneylub

Date: 5/27/2008 10:57:18 PM

Author: Neveah

While Haven is exactly right in her etiquette explanation I have to tell you what happened at my wedding 2 weeks ago...


A good friend from college responded ''no'' that she couldn''t make it. I was so disapointed... but of course I wasn''t going to bug her about why she couldn''t come.

She emailed me congratulations after the wedding and said she was so sorry she couldn''t make it but her husband was out of town....didn''t feel comfortable coming alone and didn''t want to ''breach etiquette'' by asking if she could bring someone in his place.


I really wish she would have! I SO would rather have had her bring her sister, cousin, whomever so she wouldn''t have missed my wedding! So sometimes, really etiquette, schmettiquette!!!


Maybe an email would be a better way to go about it than a phone call? That way if the bride is really opposed she has some time to read the email and think about her reply rather than get caught off guard on the phone? And your sister in law could simply write that? That she didn''t want to pressure her on the phone but she really wants to come... blah blah. Good luck!

VERY good point, Neveah!! I love that you''ve shown an example of how etiquette can be our enemy. I think so many PSers are black and white on the etiquette front.

I think personally it''s a bit ridiculous for an adult to not go to a good friend''s wedding because they can''t bring a friend. I think she needed to put on her big girl panties and go to the wedding to support her friend even if it wasn''t an ideal situation for her!

 

[Courtneylub]

Date: 5/28/2008 10:12:23 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 5/28/2008 9:16:03 AM
Author: Courtneylub

Date: 5/27/2008 10:57:18 PM

Author: Neveah

While Haven is exactly right in her etiquette explanation I have to tell you what happened at my wedding 2 weeks ago...


A good friend from college responded ''no'' that she couldn''t make it. I was so disapointed... but of course I wasn''t going to bug her about why she couldn''t come.

She emailed me congratulations after the wedding and said she was so sorry she couldn''t make it but her husband was out of town....didn''t feel comfortable coming alone and didn''t want to ''breach etiquette'' by asking if she could bring someone in his place.


I really wish she would have! I SO would rather have had her bring her sister, cousin, whomever so she wouldn''t have missed my wedding! So sometimes, really etiquette, schmettiquette!!!


Maybe an email would be a better way to go about it than a phone call? That way if the bride is really opposed she has some time to read the email and think about her reply rather than get caught off guard on the phone? And your sister in law could simply write that? That she didn''t want to pressure her on the phone but she really wants to come... blah blah. Good luck!

VERY good point, Neveah!! I love that you''ve shown an example of how etiquette can be our enemy. I think so many PSers are black and white on the etiquette front.

I think personally it''s a bit ridiculous for an adult to not go to a good friend''s wedding because they can''t bring a friend. I think she needed to put on her big girl panties and go to the wedding to support her friend even if it wasn''t an ideal situation for her!

True. I would''ve gone without my FI.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 5/28/2008 10:12:23 AM
Author: neatfreak

I think personally it''s a bit ridiculous for an adult to not go to a good friend''s wedding because they can''t bring a friend. I think she needed to put on her big girl panties and go to the wedding to support her friend even if it wasn''t an ideal situation for her!

Ditto!

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 5/28/2008 11:45:38 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 5/28/2008 10:12:23 AM
Author: neatfreak

I think personally it''s a bit ridiculous for an adult to not go to a good friend''s wedding because they can''t bring a friend. I think she needed to put on her big girl panties and go to the wedding to support her friend even if it wasn''t an ideal situation for her!

Ditto!

This is SO bad of me to say/think...not saying this is the case here - but I bet you sometime, somewhere someone has used the "etiquette" excuse when in reality they just didn''t want to go to the wedding.

 

[musey]

Date: 5/28/2008 11:45:38 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 5/28/2008 10:12:23 AM
Author: neatfreak
I think personally it's a bit ridiculous for an adult to not go to a good friend's wedding because they can't bring a friend. I think she needed to put on her big girl panties and go to the wedding to support her friend even if it wasn't an ideal situation for her!

Ditto!

Thritto!

And RE: rudeness, I didn't read that at ALL in your post, Haven. I was absolutely shocked by ponderer's HUGE misinterpretation of your post, as well. While it's always good to apologize for offending someone, even if it was inadvertent, you were not in the wrong and your post did not warrant an apology--in my humble opinion, of course.

This:

Date: 5/26/2008 11:27:56 PM
Author: Haven
Just for the record, my reference to the clown and the young boy was just an illustration of how free one can be with their choice of guest if they are indeed invited 'and guest'. I am obviously extremely biased against this type of invitation, as it gives your guests utter control over who they invite, hence the clown reference. I was showing disdain for the practice of inviting 'and guest' and not toward you for asking the question in the first place.

For some reason your name seemed familiar to me and I thought you were a more frequent poster. I always feel like PS regulars are less likely to misinterpret a post as being snarky when it certainly is not.

Is precisely how I interpreted your original post. So maybe you're right, Haven, that the more frequent posters are simply less likely to misinterpret a post.