Engagement Ring

[pdzwilewsk]

I just purchased an engagement ring for $7,000 in the diamond district of NYC. I realize that the specifications are not the most important thing to look for in a diamond and the buyer should really like the look of it. But for my own sanity, I thought that others might have a better idea if I got a good deal.

Ascher Cut
1.26 Carets
I Color
VVS1 Clarity
Very Good Symetry and Very Good Polish
No Fluourescence
No Culet
The depth and width were all in the ideal range.
It is EGL certified.

The jeweler gave me a long speech about how the diamond is from Siberia and the skin of it can be better polished because the colder climate makes for a softer gem, whereas a warmer climate like South Africa, makes the gem harder. Is this a bunch of bull?

I must say the stone looked wonderful and the price included a platinum band that he was going to customize for me.

Also, I had seen a stone with the same weight from another jeweler that was 59.4% deep, was wider on the top of stone and had faint flourescence. This stone was F color and VS2. I showed the specs of this stone to the jeweler who I bought the ring from and he said that with an ascher cut you want a deeper stone because it makes it more brilliant. He also said that for an F color stone, there should be no fluorescence. These two stones were the same weight as well. Did he just tell me this stuff to make the sale or are these items really important in an ascher cut with these specs?

Finally, I was worried about the "I" color. The jeweler said that color is less important in stones like Ascher and Emerald and that you should be more concerned with clarity. I went into this thinking that I would get an F or G color, but the diamond looked so nice, that it offset that consideration. Is his statement accurate?

 

[neatfreak]

Color is VERY VERY important in step cuts. That is a load of bull. Do you have pictures, Idealscope, or ASET images? That really helps with Asschers to determine if the pattern is nice.

 

[pdzwilewsk]

No, I don''t have any pictures. I was told by other jewlers that color is more important with round stones. I am starting to freak out if color is indeed the most important aspect in step cuts. It didn''t look too yellow when I viewed the plain stone though.

 

[angeline]

Put it this way - color is more evident in step cuts. Whether you like a certain color or not is up to you. The facets of the RB mask the color better than a step cut.

HTH!

 

[angeline]

Another thing - the harder/softer line does indeed sound like bull. We prize diamonds because of their... hardness! (amongst other things). I would imagine a harder gem is easier to polish and obtain a better finish because it wouldn''t be so easy to leave scratch marks?

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I have an asscher center stone as well and when I first started reading about asschers it seemed like there was an emphasis on clarity over color since you can see all the way to the bottom of the stone, and thus can more easily see inclusions.

Before my FI started seriously shopping for my e-ring, we went to several different jewellers just to see asschers in person. We talked with them about our limited knowledge of asschers and they informed us that while clarity was really important in step cuts, color should be a bit higher quality than you''d look for in a RB as well. One jeweller showed us an H asscher and an H RB and we could see that the asscher looked more yellow. I''m sure others here can explain why this is, but one of the jewellers told us that it was because asschers are cut with depth in mind and when you have any yellow tint, it tends to look yellower and yellower the deeper you look in the stone.

The same jeweller showed us two asschers--one was an E in color and one was an H and we were both surprised at what a difference the color made. Up to that point we had been more focused on the clarity grade.

I sort of kicked myself for falling love with asschers because the color and clarity grades have to be higher than many other cuts, the cut has to be supurb and they don''t face up the way most cuts do.

Regardless of the color grading for the stone, do you love it? Do you notice a yellowish tint at all? If it looks white to you and you know your girlfriend will love it, then don''t fret. What is the stores return policy? If the color itself (not just the grading, but the look of the stone) is really bothering you then then you might still have time to switch stones in the setting.

I have no idea if the climates of Siberia vs. S. Africa make a difference in the polish. I do agree that the 59% depth in the other stone was way too shallow. I''m sure it faced up larger, but you lose the depth, which is what I love about the asscher. My stone is an F, VS2 and it does have faint flouresence, which my fiance read wasn''t good to have with D/E/F stones, but after speaking with several jewellers they said it doesn''t have any negative aesthetic affect on the stone. I really don''t notice any blue at all, but maybe I would if I compared it to an F stone with no fluorescence, I''m not sure.

And I''m not sure about the price, either, the experts are better at figuring that one out. My FI bought my asscher ring here in Boston and it''s a 1.55, F, VS2, Ex/Ex, Faint Flur. with .42 carats of side stones (G, VS) for $7,800. That''s the only thing I have to compare it to.

I just searched on pricescope to find these asscher stones:
1.26 I, VVS2, 73% depth, 73% table, VG/VG for $3,872 (EGL)
1.25 G, VVS2, 71% depth, 64% table, VG/VG for $7481 (GIA)
1.25 G, VVS1, 66% depth, 56% table, VG/EX for$6,909 (GIA)

So it looks like the price is more on the upper end.

 

[chrono]

Date: 8/10/2007 10:56:23 AM
Author:pdzwilewsk
I just purchased an engagement ring for $7,000 in the diamond district of NYC. I realize that the specifications are not the most important thing to look for in a diamond and the buyer should really like the look of it. But for my own sanity, I thought that others might have a better idea if I got a good deal.

Ascher Cut
1.26 Carets
I Color
VVS1 Clarity
Very Good Symetry and Very Good Polish
No Fluourescence
No Culet
The depth and width were all in the ideal range. Which is? Who said it's ideal?
It is EGL certified. EGL USA, Europe or Israel?
What is the physical dimensions?
What is the crown height %?
What is the depth%
What is the table%
The jeweler gave me a long speech about how the diamond is from Siberia and the skin of it can be better polished because the colder climate makes for a softer gem, whereas a warmer climate like South Africa, makes the gem harder. Is this a bunch of bull?
I say BULL. All diamonds are formed the same way no matter where they are mined - high temperatures and tons of pressure.
I must say the stone looked wonderful and the price included a platinum band that he was going to customize for me.

Also, I had seen a stone with the same weight from another jeweler that was 59.4% deep, was wider on the top of stone and had faint flourescence. This stone was F color and VS2. I showed the specs of this stone to the jeweler who I bought the ring from and he said that with an ascher cut you want a deeper stone because it makes it more brilliant. He also said that for an F color stone, there should be no fluorescence. These two stones were the same weight as well. Did he just tell me this stuff to make the sale or are these items really important in an ascher cut with these specs?
In step cut stones, colour AND clarity are both equally important. Deeper does not mean it'll look better because the brilliance of the asscher is dependent upon the combination of all the facet angles. There is nothing wrong with fluorescence. In a lower coloured stone like an I, it helps it look whiter. There is no noteable difference in the colourless range of DEF. The same carat weight does not mean it is the same size physically. A deeper stone will measure SMALLER!
Finally, I was worried about the 'I' color. The jeweler said that color is less important in stones like Ascher and Emerald and that you should be more concerned with clarity. I went into this thinking that I would get an F or G color, but the diamond looked so nice, that it offset that consideration. Is his statement accurate?
Colour is important and especially in step cuts. I had a G EC in the past and it looked white. I now have an F EC and it looks icy white. It depends on which type of look you prefer as well as your colour sensitivity.

 

[pdzwilewsk]

Thank you for your imput. I had a book that listed dimensions for an ideal cut stone, so I was basing my comments off of that. THe EGL was from Europe, the jeweler said that was because the stone came from Russia. As for the depth, the jeweler said that asschers have to be deep enough to maximize briliance. They do have a 30 day return policy, but I am not sure if that includes returns just becasue you changed your mind or whether there has to be something wrong with the appraisal.

 

[chrono]

The return period is usually a no questions asked kind of thing. There does not have to be anything wrong with the stone. That said, please verify with the jewellery store.

 

[pdzwilewsk]

I called the jeweler and am going to meet with him on Monday to compare the stone to higher color ones? Are there any things I should ask or look at when I compare the "I" to the "F", "G", and "H"? He said that the stone is comparable to a stone worth 10K but it is less because on paper, the "I" brings it down. Is this guy going to do a magic act for me, by purposefully showing me crappy looking stones, even if on paper they are higher than the one I have. Does it matter?

Also, when I called I asked if I could get the stone on Monday to have it appraised, he agreed that I could do that, but because I am trying to avoid NYC sales tax he would have to ship it to my house first. Because this would be a hassle, it looks like I will just wait to have it appraised after it is set in the band. Is this a dumb move on my part? This store has been around for a while and seems pretty reputable. Do I need to have just the stone appraised. Remember it is EGL certified, does this make the varcity of the stone questionable? The jeweler seems confident in its accuracy. Also, this store is a major manufacturer in the diamond district, so shouldn''t they know their stuff?

 

[chrono]

When viewing the stone, compare them on a white sheet of paper together. Make the paper into a "v". Turn them upsidedown and look at the sideview. Then turn up right side up and view from the top. You should see the colour difference when upside down. You might see (or not, depending on your sensitivity) a difference in the top view.

Cut does have some bearing in how well the colour shows as well. In order to gauge the beauty of the asscher, you have to look closely at the steps. They have to be evenly spaced (no huge dark areas) like zebra stripes. Do you like large clipped corners or small ones?

The jeweller might know his stuff but remember, he is still first and foremost, a salesperson. He wants you to buy from HIS inventory, not someone else's. I agree that the stone should be appraised before being set, be it an EGL or GIA (but especially since it is EGL).

If you are in the NY area, I highly suggest these vendors should you decide to shop elsewhere.
www.Goodoldgold.com is someplace near NYC
www.engagementringsdirect.com is in the NY diamond district itself.

Both are internet vendors but also with a real presence you can visit. Their prices are competitve and they know all about picking the very best diamonds.

 

[boston_jeff]

Hi-- not much to add here, except to say that if I were you I would return that stone and run very fast from that dealer. He has given you lots of questionable information and advice IMHO, and you could do much better working with a less shady dealer, "major manufacturer" or not.

 

[DBM]

i always suggest to customers on step-cut diamonds to give clarity more weight than they would otherwise on a "brilliant cut" stone (such as round or princess). the logic being that step-cuts allow for easier visibility of "seeing thru the stone" and the inclusions. whether clarity or color is more important than the other is a matter of personal sensitivities and preference i guess but i would posit that on a step cut theres more need for higher clarity grade than on that of a "brilliant".

 

[SpeedracerII]

Likely he has no way of knowing where the stone came from. Simply because it has an EGL-Europe lab report doesn''t means the stone came from Russia anymore than a GIA stone came from Nevada. And the line he is telling you about the temperature making a difference in the hardness of the stone... wtf is he talking about? Remember this stone was created in the depths of the earth billions of year ago. I don''t think it was particularly cold down there. By definition diamonds are a 10 on the mohrs scale. If freezing diamonds make them somehow more desirable, diamond cutters would have huge freezers stacked with diamonds. Personally anyone who BS''s me like that would not get my business as I wouldn''t trust him on anything else.

When comparing color of stones side by side, check which lab graded the other diamond. You might want to compare your stone to a GIA or AGS I graded stone useing the techniques the previous poster suggested.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Speedracer,

You stole my thoughts!! I was thinking all jewelers would polish their stones in subzero freezers. I was picturing the cutter wearing (oh what are those black fur hat things called????) well anyway that hat and fur collared coats...and gloves and icecicles on their mustaches.

The polish step must be a pain, because if it weren't it wouldn't be part of the equation as all stones would be equally polished to perfection. So if cold helped...they we all spend TEN DAYS IN THE COOLER.

Pdz....Sorry Dude, I agree...sounds like you were feed some baloney. I trust that is all the damage? If not...I would not sit on my laurels.

DKS