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petecass78

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
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Hello,

I''m looking to buy a specific engagement ring from a jeweler in Philadelphia. It''s a 1.27 carat, F-color, VVS2-clarity, Cut-3B diamond set in 18K white gold with Pave diamonds on each side. Can someone tell me what price I should be looking to spend, what it might get appraised for? Is a Cut-3B too low/not worth it...I do want to make sure that it has some fire/brilliance. Thank you.
 
Hello! Welcome to PS!

Have you found the Holloway Cut Advisor (HCA) yet?

https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

It''s a great tool for weeding out diamonds which aren''t as well cut - leaving you just the best cut diamonds to choose from. You need to input the stats of the diamond, and should really be looking to get a score of under 2 and Ex/Ex/Ex/VG for Light Return/Fire/Scintillation/Spread.

Anything under 2 is great and worth considering, and a lower score isn''t necessarily better. Most people prefer stones that score somewhere between 1-2.

If you''ve been here a while you''ll know that most PSers value the cut of a diamond above (pretty much) all else - the better the cut, the greater the beauty of the diamond. The diamond you are looking at is very white and very high clarity - you might like to consider dropping down to maybe G colour (if you like diamonds in this range) and to VS2 clarity: which would still give you a very white, eyeclean diamond, and spending your budget on getting the best possible cut.

x x x
 
Date: 4/2/2008 11:02:58 AM
Author:petecass78
Hello,

I'm looking to buy a specific engagement ring from a jeweler in Philadelphia. It's a 1.27 carat, F-color, VVS2-clarity, Cut-3B diamond set in 18K white gold with Pave diamonds on each side. Can someone tell me what price I should be looking to spend, what it might get appraised for? Is a Cut-3B too low/not worth it...I do want to make sure that it has some fire/brilliance. Thank you.
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Welcome!

I just want to check, is this a round diamond? Does the centre stone come with a grading report, such as GIA, AGS, EGL, IGI?
 
Hello Cleo,

Thank you very much for responding. The jeweler is a friend of my friend''s parents (hope that didn''t confuse you!). He has a report that the diamond was appraised for $17,500, which I''m not too sure about, considering the cut. You''re right, the diamond is very white looking and has good clarity and is the perfect size for my girlfriend, but I''m not so sure about the fire/brilliance factor. Unfortunately I do not have the diamond''s cut specs handy. He is offering the ring, with setting, for $7000. I thought this was a pretty good deal, but wanted to see what others (like yourself) thought about it. Is a cut-3B bad? Should I avoid this and go with a smaller diamond with a better cut? Appreciate the input.
 
This is a round diamond. It has a grading report, but I haven''t looked at it yet. Sorry. I guess I just wanted to check about the 3B cut and if I should avoid this diamond.
 
I''d drop to G in color, drop to SI1 eye clean in clarity and go up to IDEAL in cut. And set the whole thing in a nice micropave setting from Good old gold or whtieflash.
 
If you can get the certificate number off the grading report, you should be able to look it up online and get the diamond's stats that way.

Personally, I wouldn't take notice of any appraisal given to me by the person that was selling me the ring: even if it was a friend of a friend. :)

If you are seriously considering the ring, and are happy with the HCA score of the diamond (when you calculate it) the only real way to know the appraisal value would be to pay for a proper, independent appraisal - from someone who doesn't sell jewellery themselves.

If the HCA score indicates that the diamond might not be so well cut, I would absolutely advise you to buy a smaller, well-cut diamond. You might be surprised to know that a smaller well-cut diamond can actually look bigger than a poorly cut diamond of greater carat weight.

There's a link somewhere to an image which illustrates this beautifully - I'll try & find it for you.

x x x

*edit* Here's the link - image is in upper right corner:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/carat.asp

I would have to say that the price you have been quoted would tend to indicate (to me at least) that the diamond is not as well cut as it could be - particularly given that it is a very clean, white stone... basically something's got to give & I would suspect it's the cut.
 
Unfortunately...easier said than done. Like I mentioned, the jeweler is a friend of a friend and only has so many to choose from. I didn''t like the other stones he had, not great clarity or color. So, is this cut really that bad that I shouldn''t purchase? He did have a 1.0 ct, E-color, VVS1, American Ideal diamond, but it just looked too small.
 
What is your budget for the total ring (diamond and setting)?

We can all have a look for diamonds and settings and post some ideas for you to consider.

x x x
 
I take it you particularly want F colour and VVS clarity? You could lower these if you wish, but it is a personal preference. Also do you have any other vendors in mind, instead of a friend of a friend? Also don't go by labels such as Ideal Cut/ Premium Cut etc, as this does not guarantee you a well cut diamond.

Regarding this diamond, we need in order to help you the;

depth
table
crown angle
pavilion angle
polish
symmetry
diameter measurements
girdle thickness

to be able to give you any meaningful input on the cut.
 
OK. I''ll try to get these specs for you. Personally, I''d rather purchase the 1.03 ct, Ideal-cut diamond, but I know my girlfriend was looking for 1.2+ cts, from what i''ve picked up over the years. budget is not too much of an issue, but would prefer to stay below 10K. i''d rather go through this jeweler, he is very nice and has given my friend''s family good deals over the years.

thanks again!
 
Hello everyone. thank you again for the responses. i think i''ve decided against the 3B-cut diamond and would prefer a better quality cut. I''m surprised though that many of you have suggested going down in color and clarity. from what i''ve read on this thread, H color and SI clarity have been suggested to go along with the better quality cut. I figured that a lower color and clarity would affect the ring''s beauty...is this not true? The 1.03 ct, E-color, VVS1, American Ideal-cut diamond is being offered for $5500. Should I jump on this?
 
Date: 4/2/2008 1:11:54 PM
Author: petecass78
Hello everyone. thank you again for the responses. i think i've decided against the 3B-cut diamond and would prefer a better quality cut. I'm surprised though that many of you have suggested going down in color and clarity. from what i've read on this thread, H color and SI clarity have been suggested to go along with the better quality cut. I figured that a lower color and clarity would affect the ring's beauty...is this not true? The 1.03 ct, E-color, VVS1, American Ideal-cut diamond is being offered for $5500. Should I jump on this?
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Basically cut is what is responsible for a diamond's beauty, assuming a diamond isn't very visibly included. Many Pricescopers realize this, that is why they sometimes prefer to go for lower colour and clarity and a great cut, they still have a beautiful diamond, but it can cost less this way and give them a larger diamond for the budget. Of course colour and clarity is a personal preference, but even a D VVS would look like a chunk of glass if the cut wasn't good. Perhaps for your purposes, if you aren't set on E VVS, then F or G colour and VS clarity with a superb cut may get you the diamond you want!
 
What Lorelei said. :)

I would also add though, that it is perfectly possible to find SI1 (and even sometimes SI2) clarity diamonds in which you can''t see a single inclusion with the naked eye. In these cases there is no visible difference with the naked eye between an eyeclean SI1 diamond and a VVS clarity diamond.

Some people like knowing their diamond is of higher clarity (what we call being ''mindclean'') - but others feel there is little point in paying for something you can''t see... and would rather go up in size.

Diamond colour is a personal choice: have a look around and ask to see some (well-cut!!) GIA or AGS certed diamonds in different colours to see where your own preferences lie.

Otherwise, the cut really is the major factor in determining the diamond''s beauty. :)

x x x
 
Date: 4/2/2008 12:49:02 PM
Author: petecass78
OK. I'll try to get these specs for you. Personally, I'd rather purchase the 1.03 ct, Ideal-cut diamond, but I know my girlfriend was looking for 1.2+ cts, from what i've picked up over the years. budget is not too much of an issue, but would prefer to stay below 10K. i'd rather go through this jeweler, he is very nice and has given my friend's family good deals over the years.

thanks again!
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I think it is Mrs. Salvo who's tagline says it all -- a deal is only a deal if you're getting exactly what you want. You don't need your jeweler to be nice -- you need them to be knowledgeble, honest, fair and competent. Those can't be faked. Niceness is often salesmanship. I personally would not continue to work with someone who was trying to sell me a stone based on the "appraisal" price. Appraisals almost never represent current fair market value, and tell you nothing about what the ring should cost today, tomorrow, or next week.
Personally, I think that working with a local jeweler who doesn't have the focus on cut that the folks at PS do takes a lot of patience and willpower. Patience to explain and get exactly what you're looking for and willpower to resist sales pitches, "one time" deals and "can't miss" prices. If they are truly nice, they will work with you for as long as it takes.
There are so many diamonds out there -- there is absolutely no reason to "jump" on any one of them. This is a big deal both financially and emotionally. Take your time and be persistent on getting exactly what you want for a fair price. Do not accept any substitutes or it is no deal at all.

ETA: Make sure the diamond is returnable and have it appraised (Dave Atlas is local and highly recommended) BEFORE it is set.
 
Date: 4/2/2008 1:46:07 PM
Author: enbcfsobe

I think it is Mrs. Salvo who''s tagline says it all -- a deal is only a deal if you''re getting exactly what you want. You don''t need your jeweler to be nice -- you need them to be knowledgeble, honest, fair and competent. Those can''t be faked. Niceness is often salesmanship. I personally would not continue to work with someone who was trying to sell me a stone based on the ''appraisal'' price. Appraisals almost never represent current fair market value, and tell you nothing about what the ring should cost today, tomorrow, or next week.
Personally, I think that working with a local jeweler who doesn''t have the focus on cut that the folks at PS do takes a lot of patience and willpower. Patience to explain and get exactly what you''re looking for and willpower to resist sales pitches, ''one time'' deals and ''can''t miss'' prices. If they are truly nice, they will work with you for as long as it takes.
There are so many diamonds out there -- there is absolutely no reason to ''jump'' on any one of them. This is a big deal both financially and emotionally. Take your time and be persistent on getting exactly what you want for a fair price. Do not accept any substitutes or it is no deal at all.

ETA: Make sure the diamond is returnable and have it appraised (Dave Atlas is local and highly recommended) BEFORE it is set.
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Loads of great points here. :)

A purchase of thise size should be a considered one. Better to take your time and educate yourself a little so tha you know exactly what you are buying, and that you have bought the best... rather than make a hasty decision which you may later come to regret in the light of a little more knowledge later on.

Sadly, there are a couple of threads running in Rocky Talky at the moment by another PSer who did exactly that - and who struggled to return the diamond he bought originally, having found he could buy better elsewhere. Again, the jeweller was a friend of a friend - and often these stories don;t have happy endings.

I really would second everything in enbcfsobe''s post. Don''t make any rash decsions! :)

x x x
 
You guys have been a big help! I''ve spoken with the jeweler and he will be on the lookout for a 1.2-1.4 Carat Ideal-cut diamond, somewhere in between E-G color and VVS2-VS2 clarity. I think I will be happier with this. I''ll let you all of you know as soon as I hear back from him tomorrow.

take care,
pete
 
You''re welcome. :)

Not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but do be aware that the term ''ideal'' can be used quite loosely by jewellers. In reality (and on PS) Ideal strictly means a diamond graded by AGSL which has been awarded their AGS0 Ideal cut grade.

Of course, there are some awesome GIA Excellent stones out there too - but the AGS0 grading tends to be a little tighter. However, AFS0 and GIA Ex are a good place to start!

I would advise running the specs of the stones you get offered through the HCA just to double check how good the cuts really are - and post here if you would like alternative opnions on them :)

x x x
 
The jeweler should be able to call in stones that are AGS000 (Ideal), GIA Excellent, and/or based on specific ranges of numbers that you give him that should put the stone in the right range for a highly performing stone. If the jeweler just looks by color and clarity, it will be a continued waste of your time b/c most of the stones are likely going to be so-so in terms of cut. Specifying the characteristics you want in terms of cut should save some time & effort on your part. Let the jeweler do the work of tracking down the right stone.
We went through this process last year in Philly and managed to get a similar size stone in G SI1 (eyeclean) and custom plat mounting in the price range you are looking at. If she is looking for 1.2, you may be able to get away with a slightly smaller stone because a really good cut (no, mine isn''t a superideal or H&A and scored around a 2.5 on the HCA) truly does make the stone look bigger. People frequently assume that my stone is at least 1.5 or 2. Look carefully at the diameter measurements and compare to typical measurements for that weight. There are some helpful charts that have been posted here if you do a search. Do keep in mind that this range of sizes can sometimes be more difficult to find than a 1 or 1.5 because those are many peoples'' ''goal'' numbers.
Last thing -- do make sure that you get a stone that is certified by a reputable lab. AGS and GIA are probably most highly regarded in terms of constistency of grading. EGL can be OK too, as long as it is USA (EGL Europe and Israel historically been less stringent). Some folks have had very good luck with IGI. While getting an appraisal can catch problems or misrepresentations, do you really want to deal with that? There are a number of threads covering the merits and drawbacks of the most common gem labs. Oh, and the actual last thing -- don''t under any circumstances let the jeweler talk you out of getting a real, independent appraisal of the ring both before and after setting. That means YOU pick the appraiser based on your own research. This generally costs under $150 and could save you much anguish.
Good luck!!
 
Date: 4/2/2008 2:17:12 PM
Author: Cleo
You''re welcome. :)

Not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but do be aware that the term ''ideal'' can be used quite loosely by jewellers. In reality (and on PS) Ideal strictly means a diamond graded by AGSL which has been awarded their AGS0 Ideal cut grade.

Of course, there are some awesome GIA Excellent stones out there too - but the AGS0 grading tends to be a little tighter. However, AFS0 and GIA Ex are a good place to start!

I would advise running the specs of the stones you get offered through the HCA just to double check how good the cuts really are - and post here if you would like alternative opnions on them :)

x x x
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Ditto! Be cautious of the ideal cut label as Cleo and I mentioned, also asking your jeweller to bring in some AGS0 and GIA Excellent stones will make finding a lovely diamond easier.
 
Date: 4/2/2008 3:08:16 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/2/2008 2:17:12 PM
Author: Cleo
You''re welcome. :)

Not sure if this has been covered in this thread, but do be aware that the term ''ideal'' can be used quite loosely by jewellers. In reality (and on PS) Ideal strictly means a diamond graded by AGSL which has been awarded their AGS0 Ideal cut grade.

Of course, there are some awesome GIA Excellent stones out there too - but the AGS0 grading tends to be a little tighter. However, AFS0 and GIA Ex are a good place to start!

I would advise running the specs of the stones you get offered through the HCA just to double check how good the cuts really are - and post here if you would like alternative opnions on them :)

x x x
Click to expand...
Ditto! Be cautious of the ideal cut label as Cleo and I mentioned, also asking your jeweller to bring in some AGS0 and GIA Excellent stones will make finding a lovely diamond easier.
Click to expand...
These, will make it the easiest.
 
Date: 4/2/2008 12:05:21 PM
Author: petecass78
The jeweler is a friend of my friend''s parents (hope that didn''t confuse you!).
Click to expand...

Just a warning: I went through a frickin'' epic ordeal because of a similar situation. Be very sure that you''re dealing with a good BUSINESSPERSON and not just a good person. If they work out of an actual retail store, you can probably disregard all this.

-Make sure you understand way ahead of time what sort of return policies, examination periods, warranties, and customer guarantees they''re able to offer.
-Before committing to anything, double-check prices with an online vendor.
-Pay by CC if possible (even if you have the cash) so you can always dispute the charge if things go south.


Other than that, I would say don''t worry too much about the color, unless you can see the difference. I have an 1.06ct I SI1 and I can barely see any coloring when compared to a G. Based on your eyes, you can probably safely drop a couple of color levels and not even notice it (but your wallet will notice it!).

As far as clarity goes, you can even get SI2 stones that are clean to the naked eye (aka "eyeclean") (my SI1 appears clean to me even under a loupe!); however you may be psychologically affected by knowing there are flaws there even if you can''t see them, in that case you''ll want a diamond with a higher clarity just for your peace of mind (aka "mindclean").
 
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