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engagement ring - buy on cruise?

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bennyblanco

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
25
Hi all,

I've been researching for the past few nights and stumbled upon this site - looks great and some very good info.

Im planning to go on a cruise with my gf of 10 years in a month or so. We've been on a few cruises and have bought a few not-so significant pieces on and off the boat. I'm thinking about buying an engagement ring during the cruise and proposing.

I'm very confused about the reality of saving any sort of money on a 1-1.2ct diamond ring. I don't think I trust the DI's on the islands, but I think buying on the actual ship might be adventagous.

I'm in Canada so we're looking at 13% in additional taxes by buying local. This will be the case buying online as well, I believe.

So - what are the opinions here? Im very much a newb when it comes to buying diamonds and would love your help in making sure I do the right thing and buy a beautiful stone for my future wife.

thanks all.
 
Hi, I am no expert here but I would totally think of ordering from one of the PS vendors like WF or BG. On a ship you aren't likely IMO to find Ideal Scope Images or other useful info that I think is really key to buying a modern cut diamond. Not to say you will end up unhappy with going the cruise ship route but you are sooo limited as well as far as selection & you wouldn't likely be able to get it sized on the ship...so IMO I would buy prior and do some serious research here on the site before taking the plunge. That's just me though. I say order online - you will have variety and bring it with you on the ship for a surprise proposal.

Do you know what price range you are looking at?

Some things to think about are:
Budget (for diamond & setting)
Style (what style of setting does she like or do you know?)
What shape diamond are you looking at?
Color
Clairity
aprox size diamond
 
Whoah. Not the best idea. There are better ways to save money on this -- regardless of the tax issue, buying online from a reputable vendor who will not only provide you assurance that you're actually getting what you're paying for, but will offer other benefits such as an upgrade policy, is going to be much more cost-effective than buying from a brick-and-mortar store with a huge overhead, local or not. Plus, do you really want to just bank on a cruise ship happening to have just what you're looking for in an engagement ring? Not a good bet to make.
 
I think you will in theory save the taxes, but the money is added in advance on the price, at least compared to some reputable online dealers. Quite apart from the fact that I don't think you will get a very good diamond there.

How about buying a non expensive promise ring on board, propose with that and go searching for an engagement ring together after the cruise?
 
Buy the diamond and ring before the cruise. I just can't imagine the quality and price of a diamond ring on a cruise .. being good. The gem talks I have been to on cruises were majorily scammy :P
 
Hi everyone.. thanks for the quick replies. I appreciate the feedback.

I suppose I agree on there being a risk that I can't find something I like. I'm pretty simple and so is she. I just figured with the right information, I could find something that would suit. I do not want to go the promise ring route - long story. :)

I would be willing to buy ahead of time and bring it on the cruise. Maybe propose before boading.. not sure. I can worry about that part after, haha.

Budget (for diamond & setting) -> Was hoping for roughly 7000$ with taxes/etc

Style (what style of setting does she like or do you know?) -> simple, white gold or plat. I was looking on here for some ideas and I've kind of fallen in love with the Verragio Insignia-7021 someone just posted about. Beautiful. I think it's upwards of 2K though.

What shape diamond are you looking at? -> Round, I think? Suggestions?

Color -> unsure. Need help with this.

Clairity -> unsure. Need help with this.

aprox size diamond -> 1ct, give or take.

Thank you everyone.
 
I could be wrong, but I believe that when you purchase online and the vendor does not have a storefront in your state there is no tax. This may be different in Canada.
 
From past experience as a Canadian buying online from a U.S. vendor, you will have to pay the taxes before they will release it at the border. In my case in Ontario, I had to pay 13% HST.

If you are on a cruise, do you not have to declare any purchases made over a certain allowable amount?
 
tax - correct. I'd be getting the 13% tax hit at the border.
 
Do not buy from DI on the islands they are garbage, my GF forced me into those stores not realizing I had spent all this time researching and the amount of bologna these guys were spitting out of their mouth was rediculous. Furthermore, ever wonder why the cruise ships push you to get off the boat and go to DI? I am pretty sure they get kickbacks, the whole shopping experience on cruises was a joke in my mind. Take the time and get something nice from one of the PS vendors....
 
You know, I did actually buy a diamond on our first ever cruise (well, in port actually). It's an irradiated blue diamond, radiant cut, .92 carat. I love it. It's absolutely, stunningly beautiful! BUT, I bought it loose to be set into a RHR and I'm not sure I'd buy a white diamond for an engagement ring while on a cruise. This blue diamond did indeed come from DI and I had a really good experience there. I have read the reports though and I know a lot of ugliness goes down at that chain. I'd be hesitant to buy from them again, but I had no problems, in my experience. My jeweler at home said that I got a great deal and paid about 1/2 of what it would have cost here. I just wanted a fun, RHR diamond that would be kind of different. I don't mind that the blue is a result of irradiation. If it were an engagement ring diamond, I think I would buy from a known vendor with a much better reputation than some of the ones in cruise ports. Then again, I'm happy with my purchase. Oh, and I didn't have to pay taxes because I bought it loose. They told me that only pre-set jewelry is taxed (at a certain amount, at that).
 
Cruise port jewelers are, in general, offer fairly high retail prices. That's ok, they have big inventories, expensive locations, and lots of kickbacks to pay but it's decidedly different from their carefully cultivated reputation. The cruise lines are often stockholders in the jewelers they recommend and the 'cruise directors' are often commission sales people. Again, that's ok for what it is but it's not generally admitted to up front and to call it a conflict of interest is an understatemenht. It's also common for the sales staff and bench people to be working very fast in these shops and they're not known for highly detailed work or for providing detailed shopping information. Lastly, bear in mind that if you have a problem, you are under the jurisdiction of a foreign legal system that's rather far away from home. At best any return or repair is likely to be difficult and I must say I have a fair number of customers who have been very unhappy with their experiences.

Overall, I recommend against buying important jewelry (or anything else for that matter) while on a cruise. Have a great time, buy souveniers if you like but have no illusions that there are bargains to be had.

The customs office is going to ask you about it and collect the VAT when you return home.
 
Where is the cruise leaving from? If you're leaving from the states, you can have the ring shipped to a hotel you stay in the night before the cruise. (of course I'd only do this if I was staying at a nicer hotel). You may have to lay out a few hundred for a room, but it would still be less than the 13% on total.
 
Maybe give GOG a call. They carry Verragio and I'm sure they can help you out with the stone. If you're not set on the Verragio setting, you could always go custom. BGD, GOG, JA...I'm sure they all can help you. The way I look at it is this....you spend $7,000 on a setting and diamond on the ship that may or may not be worth that. I would rather know that I'm paying a 13% tax for goods that I know are of good quality vs not paying for the tax and potentially getting something that is worth less. With a great resource like PS, I think you could find something.
 
Here is what I would do first. Head to a jewlery shop that sells engagement rings. Pref one that has a large selection and that is well known. Go by yourself and talk to them and ask to see diamonds in different colors from say colorless to J or even K. See if you can see the difference (without them telling you which stone is graded which color)....Now, this is no gaurentee that she will not be or will be color sensative but it will put your mind at ease as far as having seen the different colors first hand before buying. Then take a look at diamonds in your pricerange for size. Have them show you loose diamonds (if they have them) in a variety of sizes within your budget +/-. Then I would go home with that info and look at the options on WF, BGD or GOG. I personally prefer modern cut diamonds in the G, H &I range but prefer older antique diamonds in M,N,O,&P!

I also prefer diamonds that are fancy shapes like cushion or princess in the G/H range vs rounds I am more open to even an I or in some cases a good J.

I think you are safe....really safe with a round shape diamond.

:wavey:
 
Personally, I wouldn't do anything to try and avoid the taxes. If you purchased a ring from a vendor in the States you could get caught at the border on the way back. If you did manage to not declare it, if you ever need any repairs/resizing and had to send it back to the vendor you may be asked to provide proof that you paid the tax originally. I'm sure getting caught out at this point would not be fun.

From my one experience with my engagement ring and matching wedding band from BGD, I will tell you this. I looked at a 2 ct round brilliant at Birks in Toronto in a platinum solitaire setting. Insanely marked up and the price still did not include the taxes. We ended up paying less than half of the Birks price (including the taxes at the border) for a 2.23 ct diamond set in a custom-made 3/4 eternity style band with a matching 3/4 eternity wedding band. In my mind, going the route we did, taxes and all, was totally worth it.
 
I looked at DI on a recent cruise in Grand Cayman after hearing the port shopping director sing their praises. Not only was there selection limited compared with on-line vendors but the more senior salesman wondered why I would only look at AGS or GIA certified stones since "EGL was a more reputable grader". I got out of there fast and bought from Jamesallen when I returned home.
 
OK. I hear you all loud and clear - avoid the cruise ships and ports. I will have to give my gf lessons. :)

I think I will consider options at BGD, GOG, JA, WF - they all seem to get good praise from PS members.

That being said, could someone point me to some examples of Round diamonds that would be ideal in the ~5-6K range? I understand the basics of the 4c's, but I see a range in 1ct diamonds from 3K -> 10K in VS1/VS2, F/G ranges. Seems like a huge difference?

Is the idea of the "hearts & arrorws" ideal cut diamond to mean they sell diamonds that have an ideal look mixed with less noticable issues?

Lastly - I don't want to visit a local jewler and waste their time if I do not intend to buy through them. I get the sense that I'll likely find what I want online from a reputable place at a better price than a local shop. Am I wrong in saying this? I run a small business and want to be fair to other businesses with my intentions.

Than you all for your help. I'm happy I have a forum to ask questions and get great replys. Buying jewlery stinks! :)
 
hi all.. more questions.. finding this diamond/setting is consuming me. :/ My cruise leaves mid-April and I've decided to get this done before I leave so time is a bit tight I think.

As I said earlier, I like the look of the Verragio Insignia-7021 .. see here:

http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Insignia-Engagement-Rings/INSIGNIA-7021

Although I like it, I think spending 2K on a setting at this point might cut too deeply into my budget. Do any of you know of any similiar styles without the name price?

Other questions:

1) Does the type of setting affect the diamond I get in terms of depth, imperfections, color, etc? If so, how can I determine what is best for the setting I decide on? Should I decide on the setting first or second?

2) What's the deal with the different types of diamonds offered - brian gavin's blue, signature, select, etc etc etc?

3) Which testing method is most important? hearts/arrows, idealscope, aset, etc? Are all equally important or ?

thanks guys.. im hoping some of you can help and guide me to get the right set for my girl. I would be eternally thankful.
 
bennyblanco|1298178954|2855836 said:
As I said earlier, I like the look of the Verragio Insignia-7021 .. see here:

http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Insignia-Engagement-Rings/INSIGNIA-7021

Although I like it, I think spending 2K on a setting at this point might cut too deeply into my budget. Do any of you know of any similiar styles without the name price?
Click to expand...

not with the scrolling detail...but there are plenty of knife-edge solitaires

Other questions:

1) Does the type of setting affect the diamond I get in terms of depth, imperfections, color, etc? If so, how can I determine what is best for the setting I decide on? Should I decide on the setting first or second?
Click to expand...

some settings will leave the sides more exposed which may show more color. I think you are fine either way

2) What's the deal with the different types of diamonds offered - brian gavin's blue, signature, select, etc etc etc?
Click to expand...
blue: blue fluorescence, not H&A, priced lower
signature: H&A diamonds
select: not in-house but you could call them in
also, you would want to check about policies on the different diamonds
3) Which testing method is most important? hearts/arrows, idealscope, aset, etc? Are all equally important or ?
Click to expand...

idealscope/ASET will tell about light return, hearts/arrows tells you about optical symmetry. you don't need H&A to have a beautiful sparkly diamond, it may result in crisper patterning. BGD signature line is H&A, blue/select is not.
 
bennyblanco|1298178954|2855836 said:
hi all.. more questions.. finding this diamond/setting is consuming me. :/ My cruise leaves mid-April and I've decided to get this done before I leave so time is a bit tight I think.

As I said earlier, I like the look of the Verragio Insignia-7021 .. see here:

http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Insignia-Engagement-Rings/INSIGNIA-7021

Although I like it, I think spending 2K on a setting at this point might cut too deeply into my budget. Do any of you know of any similiar styles without the name price?
Click to expand...

The Couture 0409 is similar and starts at $1300 http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Couture-Engagement-Rings/COUTURE-0409R#section5

WhiteFlash has a similar setting http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/santorini-engagement-ring-285.htm

i just purchased an insignia 7021 and it was almost half my budget but my GF wanted the setting more than anything else. we'll see how it works out, i'm sure DSS will set in and i'll end up upgrading before we're even married. haha.
 
Go ahead and buy a souvenir or a small jewelry item while on vacation but
my usual advice is not to buy a significant diamond item.

The typical hand written appraisal that one receives is virtually worthless regarding any real information.

As Neil correctly stated...problems with workmanship and quality are common and
there are no real consumer protection regulations once you return home.
 
Since you want Verragio, I would call Good Old Gold and ask what they can find in your budget for the stone. $5000 is sort of an in between amount because once you go over a carat, you're looking at more than that unless you go to lower color/clarity. But a .80 G VS2 is under $3800. You need a stone that is around .90, but those are not as common. So I'd call Jon and ask him to look at his suppliers and try to find a stone that fits your budget. Then he can have it sent to Verragio to have them set it. I think if that is the setting she loves, you need to go with it because it is pretty unique! You need to get on this right away if you want to propose on this cruise! Ordering a setting can take several weeks sometimes!!!!
 
That ring looks like it would be uncomfortable. :o Glad you've decided against on-board e-ring shopping. This is a purchase of a lifetime ... the selection on a ship would be MINISCULE! And over priced. Go the extra mile. You won't regret it.
 
So is a H&A diamond a better diamond than a Blue? The price would suggest that? I like the H&A as it is something I can quantify to a certain extent. Do all the jewlers use the same/similar techniques?

If I end up with a Verragio setting or a setting not found at the jewler I end up with, does the diamond have to be sent to them to be set? The jewler can't/doesn't do this work? I think in the end, I'd prefer getting the diamond and setting at the same place.

The Couture 0409 does look nice as well, actually. Thanks! I don't like the WF one.. I want

Does anyone have either Verragio - can you comment on the comfort that another member mentioned about it looking uncomfortable?

Finally, are the prices seen online at these jewlers negotiable at all? Or is what's listed the best price?

Thanks all - I really want to start finalizing my options this week. All the help is appreciated.
 
Price for these diamonds is usually as stated. They are usually much less than they'd be at a regular jeweler. If you are referring to blue as blue fluorescence, then yes, fluorescence is considered a negative for price purposes, but it is not a negative in any other respect as far as I am concerned! But those would have to be evaluated stone by stone as not all will be hearts and arrows (top cut quality). Not sure what techniques you are referring to. Not all jewelers have screened the stones to the extent others have.

Generally, designer settings usually have the diamond sent to the designer to set. You usually get the best result this way. My daughter's e-ring was from Vatche, and her diamond was sent there to be set. I would not let a local jeweler do it because they often do not do as good a job with the prongs as does the designer.

I personally think it is unlikely that the ring is uncomfortable. The ring shouldn't be so tight that you'd feel the curves in the design. It is a very pretty ring!
 
Hi all,

Here are some options I picked out.

My criteria are:

Round stone
carat .98 -> 1.05
price ~$6000
colour E-F-G (maybe I can decrease to H? willing to have fluor in exchange?)
clarity VVS2-VS1-VS2-SI1
polish exc/vg
symm exc/vg

1) james allen - none include idealscope, h&a or anything other than the diamond photo??
a) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1356712.asp
b) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1356768.asp
c) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1355213.asp

2) brian gavin - none include any idealscope, h&a, or any diamond photo??
a) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=27493821
b) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=28982417
c) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=29892597
d) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=24667107

3) whiteflash - none include any idealscope, h&a, or any diamond photo??
a) http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2572550.htm
b) http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2589140.htm



Thoughts or comments?
 
JA will provide idealscope images for up to 3 diamonds if you request. Hearts images are only provided for their true hearts line (these are already uploaded, no need to request)

the BGD and WF diamonds you linked are virtual stones, meaning BGD and WF do not physically have them in their inventory, which is why there are no pics/IS images. for H&A diamonds look at BGD signature or WF ACA. WF ES are diamonds that narrowly missed ACA distinction, but are not sold as H&A. BGD blue are also not sold as H&A. Both vendors can call in virtual stones for evaluation but you may be out shipping fees if you do not choose to keep the diamond (check with vendors)

H&A H SI1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040376130004

H&A G SI1 (over budget)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809045

BGD blue H SI1
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808008

ETA GOG has this one, 1.09 H SI1
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7893/
 
I guess I should avoid the virtual stones then? I also suppose the in-house, tested stones will typically be a bit more expensive?

I think these two are pretty close - even if one is out of budget by a bit:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047809045
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040376130004

The other two have a bit too much splitting at the top of the hearts, no?

If going with an H colored unit, wouldn't slight fluo help with the colour balance? H seems a bit too yellowish to me? Am I crazy?

thanks!
 
I see what you are saying about not wanting to waste anyone's time but if you are open and honest & upfront with them and let them know you are in the RESEARCH & EDUCATION stage and NOT the buying stage you would be fine. I wouldn't go in acting as if I am going to buy from them but rather that you are doing your research first. It's like buying a nice furniture set or car....you can go shopping at several locations before actually buying one and you may not buy one at all at the end of the day. I would think it's a bit of a dis-service if you don't spend the time looking at least at the different colors in person. But that is just my opinion! I dunno, how do you know if the F is worth the extra $$$ for you if you have never seen an H in person side by side with an F? Some like they very icy white look and others don't and or prefer to spend the money on size and drop down to an H or an I in color. Just something to think about.
 
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