Engaged friends -> Divorced friends

[Independent Gal]

So, last night we went out to a karaoke bar (and I'm feelin' it this AM, sadly) with some friends of ours, two of whom have just got engaged. Because this is PS, I'll just slip in that he got her a very pretty 2.7ish EC. FI reminded me before we went out to meet them that just after we had got engaged, the woman in question, had looked at my ring and blurted out 'Oh my god, it's so SMALL!' (my diamond is 0.7 ct.). I'd totally forgotten because it's not really something I care about / am insecure about, so I just thought it was funny! My stone is by far the smallest in my circle of friends - e.g., our other recently engaged friends ended up with a 2.52 RB but I'm perfectly happy with my preeeetty leeettle .7ct.

and especially with the man who gave it to me!

Anyway, we're a little worried about this couple. It's a looong story, but in a nutshell, he's a terrible alcoholic, sometimes depressive, and a little nuts. She's wild, materialistic, and indulges him in all his worst behaviours. Both of them (around 30) are quite immature. We enjoy their company because he's very highly intelligent and quirky and she's just plain fun. But they are not 'close' friends because of their behaviour. It's hard to explain why we were skeptical that they are ready for marriage to begin with, but let's just say that all our mutual friends are of the same view. And besides, he used to say that he didn't believe in any of it, that he never wanted to marry, and he clearly proposed and got her the honkin' stone because it's what she wanted. Even last night, she was saying how he STILL doesn't believe in any of it. He doesn't even seem excited about it, indeed I have never seen him look more miserable, and horrified every time the subject of a wedding arose. This is the day after they got engaged.

I'm sure he loves her. No way he would have DREAMED of proposing otherwise. But love, as we all know, ain't enough.

Have any of you ever had friends where you thought, 'Whoa, this is not a marriage that's going to work.' If so, did you feel kind of yucky and hypocrtical at all the festivities? I mean, we honestly wish them well, so that's not hypocritical, but I just feel so yucky that I have approximately zero faith in them being able to make it.

 

[neatfreak]

I''ve certainly had friends like that AND felt the same way. You are NOT alone! In fact one set of them just got engaged a few months ago! I wish the best for them...but I really doubt they will make it in the long run. The proposal just seemed so impulsive considering that only a short time ago they were breaking up because he couldn''t even commit to the relationship!

 

[CrownJewel]

I can totally relate. One of my best friends got engaged...she was totally surprised by the proposal even though they had been together for many years. My other friends and I just knew he wasn''t quite right for her, so we had that icky feeling in our stomachs when they got engaged. They both seemed very happy, so we tried to be happy for them, because we don''t know what their life is like when they''re alone. Maybe they had some special connection that the rest of us couldn''t see or understand.

Well anyway, a month or two after they got engaged, my friend broke up with the guy on her own accord. I''m friends with her ex-fiance because we were in the same architecture program in college. I felt they both handled the break up very maturely. Of course they were both heartbroken, but I''ve never seen a breakup go so smoothly. Very admirable.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think we all know couples like that, don''t we? I have only known such couples from a distance, not up close (i.e., not my best friends) but it is sorta like watching a train wreck. There is a woman in our extended circle of friends who got married and divorced within a 7 month period a couple years ago, and everyone say it coming. This pasy New Years we were at a party with her and her new beau, and something about the way he talked to her and clung to her all night looked so possessive and controlling that I just thought to myself, "Here we go again!"

One of my fave research findings from relationships research relates to this: couples can''t actually predict whether they will make it in the long run (everyone says they will be together for a lifetime, even 18 year olds! haha), but the couple''s friends and family are able to predict with amazin accuracy! That''s why I was so glad when my mom (who is brutally honest) told me how great my DH is and how our relationship is good, and my MIL said the same thing by commenting that we seem really well suited for one another ("And you can''t say that about every couple!" she added). As an aside, my DH is an exceptionally warm and open man, everyone who meets his loves him immediately, and I was talking to my friends one day and saying how we never really fight, and they all said, "Well your DH is so agreeable and so nice!" Haha, I am not so agreeable and nice I guess!!

Anyways, its too bad you have to experience that icky feeling... but look at it this way--if they get divorced, that just means they are in the 50% and it raises your odds of staying together!

Ok I know that stats don''t work that way, but it is a funnt way to think about it.

DD

 

[Independent Gal]

Haha. Hurray for 'pretend statistics', DD.

I think it's kinda shaking me up because they are actually the first marrying couple I know well-ish where I haven't thought 'Awwww, pot and lid found each other! Hurray!' One marriage has since gotten a little rocky, midn you, but they'll get through it. We're all late marriers, and most of my friends are still not married (though they're dropping like flies! It's an engagement epidemic!) but I think the fact that everyone waited so long also speaks to them being very well able to choose a good match. Not that that can't happen young, but the odds are higher when you're older!

Well, let's all cross our fingers for all those proto-trainwrecks out there I guess.

 

[sumbride]

Yep. One of my best friends. He was her first real boyfriend, but there didn''t seem to be any passion there... not even at the beginning. They got engaged when she was a senior in college (he had been out a couple of years) and they waited until he finished grad school to marry. None of us were very excited about it and we tried to talk to her about it but she didn''t want to listen. They are divorced now, but I did have a good time at her wedding because it was what she wanted at the time.

She''s engaged again. I don''t feel especially good about it because they have been dating about 6 months. I don''t feel alarmed, I just feel like, well, she could do better. But she says she loves him more than she''s ever loved anybody (her 3rd true love, actually...) and this is what she wants. So I''m saving for the destination wedding she''s planning next year. By then they will have been together a year and a half, so if they do actually get married, hopefully she''ll know it''s right by that time. I''m still not sure.


How to handle it? Well, you go to the wedding, you dance, you drink if you need to. You smile. It''s what she wants, whether it''s right for her or not. There''s not much you can do to change an adult''s mind about what they want.

 

[Selkie]

My husband''s sister has been married twice. The first time was at 22, to her long-time boyfriend, and apparently it was one of those rocky, immature relationships that everyone knew wouldn''t survive. DH''s comment on it was that some couples just need to get married so that they can get divorced and go their separate ways, and they were one of them. It struck me as a strange thought at first, but then I realized he had a good point. It''s as though the marriage is the speed bump in the road that shakes everyone out of their stagnant patterns, and makes things real, so to speak. And once reality sets in, one person or the other (or both) can finally make the break.

 

[hairgirl95]

I have been riding an emotional rollercoaster with a couple friend of ours. They should have NEVER gotten married. Married in Nov. 05, she is 10 years older than he is, and to put it nicely, she is completely CRAZY! She is moody, insecure, jealous, mean, verbally abusive, and oh so extremely selfish. She really does think the sun rises and sets squarely on her. So last summer she decided that she was "done" with her marriage--I guess she was "done" calling her dh a loser, a-hole, and treating him like a piece of trash, and decided to step out on the marriage and have an affair with another married man. Their divorce was final 3 weeks ago. My husband and I have written her off the list but remain friends with the ex-husband. It was a classic case of she "settled" for the first person to propose (with her horrid attitude and personality there weren''t many offers) and he wanted to be the one to save her and make her happy. He is in therapy now to regain some level of self esteem that she yanked from him over the past 5 years. It really makes me sad AND mad to see how someone can have so little regard for the feelings of a person they SHOULD love--she did marry him afterall! The drama has died down now since its all finalized and done, but I think the older we get, we all know someone in this type of situation. Makes me so thankful everyday for the wonderful husband I have.

 

[NYCsparkle]

i have a friend who is 33 and with a guy right now clearly out of desperation. she is basically settling for him because she doesn''t want to "end up alone". i''ve tried to talk to her about it...there are too many issues with him to even get started about...but she''s dying to get married because she wants the married life. she''s so smart except about this....i think many people panic in their late 20''s and early 30''s and wind up settling for all the wrong reasons...society tells us the norm is to be married with 2.5 kids by 35. its sad that people feel pressured to do things they aren''t ready to do with the wrong person.

 

[Independent Gal]

Hmm, yeah, I think in the case of the female half of this couple, it was less that she wants to be married and have kids ASAP as that she wants my friend ''locked in'' since he''s kinda...elusive. I''m guessing dating him must be tough. And a big rock on her finger doesn''t hurt either, from her perspective!

 

[KimberlyH]

One of my dearest friends is in a marriage that has always seemed doomed, except for the fact that she refuses to accept that he is not the boyfriend, fiance and husband she hoped he would be. She adores him and I think he loves her, but his love for her seems to be about what she does for him. They seperated shortly after having a child, at her request, and now are back together. Whenever she gets to the point of recognizing that she is not getting what she needs from the relationship (I won't say deserves because I believe you deserve what you expect and tolerate) he dangles a small carrot in front of her (and boy do I mean small in the scheme of their relationship) and she goes back.

I wish, for their child, that he would be more of a father and a husband but when they got married and then back together after the seperation I told her I was happy for her, and I am, because she loves him and wants to be with him and all I wish for her is happiness. I don't feel that in doing so I am supporting their mismatched marriage, I am supporting my friend having what she wants, which is him. I hope he becomes the person she wants and needs and I'll be supportive if/when they end up apart again.

 

[lyra]

A few years ago we went to the wedding of a couple that I believe no one saw as a good match, save for some of her friends. I hate to say it, but he is wealthy, and there was a big age difference, etc. It was the most awkward event. Almost like attending a wake instead of a wedding. But we had to go.

 

[diamondfan]

I have known a couple of people in that boat. This was many years ago, before I got engaged. In my close group of friends I was the first, but I was friendly with a couple of girls from my cousin or a summer job...they got engaged very young and I could tell then that A: they were not a good fit and B: they were enamored of the idea of the wedding but not really aware of what being married was all about, the wedding was the end to them, not the beginning. One girl was sweet and naive, an only child, her mom much older as was her dad, who died when she was a teen. Her mother spoiled her and her rebellion was to take off, work on a cruise ship, meet a guy who was totally not right for her (but a nice guy) and have a hugangous wedding. She was maybe 19 or 20. The mom paid for it, and within a year or two they were divorced. They had no kids which made it easier.

My other friend was more street smart, very materialistic, and married a sweet more blue collar type guy. He could not, and never would be able, to give her all she wanted, but she rode him and pushed him and the poor thing jumped through hoops. They had three kids and things were not good at all, though they might still be married. I was in her wedding and let me tell you the poor guy did not know what he was in for. They were not well suited but I am not sure she would ever allow him to leave her, she was too much into appearances and being the perfect couple and family.

There is simply nothing, even when you see abusive stuff or cheating, that is guaranteed. You become the bad guy. I know times someone I know caught a good friend''s boyfriend cheating. She told, because SHE would want to be told. The couple broke up, but then of course got back together. Who was out of luck as a trouble maker? My friend. So, no good deed goes unpunished. You can know what you know, but most people are destined to make their mistakes. You generally cannot save someone from themselves or avert them from their path. It sucks, and your friend might some day say, WHY DID YOU LET ME MARRY HIM? Why didn''t you warn me? Well, hindsight is 20/20 and truly, in the moment, it is a rare person who would hear you, acknowledge your position and act on it. And god forbid they DID listen and NOT marry the guy, the relationship potential (the one that got away) could be so magnified that you get blamed for messing up her life. This is likelier if the person in question does not find anyone else. (I am saying she and her here for ease of posting, it is not meant to be sexist). Really a tough row to hoe. I find, deep down, people might know the truth, but do not want to be saved from themselves. I guess they just have to take their own journey, wherever it might lead them. And you can really just be as supportive as you can be at each phase.

I can definitely see that you guys might end up avoiding them down the line though.

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, ladies. I bet DF will be right and we won''t stay friends in the longrun.

But who knows? Maybe they''ll surprise us.

 

[diamondfan]

Indy, if you like them as individuals you might still see them separately in the event of an issue. Even if they stay married, if when you go out as couples it is funky, you might try to spend less couple time and more individual time together. Just how it sort of works out I guess.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Definitely feel this way about some of FI''s friends. FI''s roommate from college started dating one of his (roommate''s) little sister''s friends when she was about 17. Well, they got married last year. She was 18 and he is about 22. She is very immature! I don''t see how it''s going to work. She''s already quit college because she wants to "have babies." I really didn''t see what the rush was into getting married. I tried to protest going to their wedding because of some mean things that they did to FI (long, stupid story), but we went anyway and somehow I just felt kind of sad. While they are "in love" it''s sad I think to see someone so young quitting school and everything. She''s a really smart girl, but she doesn''t want to do anything with it. It also hurts FI because his roommate was his best friend, but when this girl is around (who is honestly a witch) his friend doesn''t act the same. I try not to judge them as much as possible. Oh well, I guess we just have to hope for the best, right? People grow apart and things change.

 

[Independent Gal]

Yes, Sarah that it is a scary one. About 30% of teens who marry make it. As in, 70% don''t. And if she is dropping out to have babies, if she''s in the 70% she will find herself very, very poor with little means of bettering her or her childrens'' situation. Let''s hope she''s in the 30%, because otherwise she''s just sentenced herself to a very, very hard life.

Love is sooooo far from enough in these matters.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/24/2008 12:50:41 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Yes, Sarah that it is a scary one. About 30% of teens who marry make it. As in, 70% don''t. And if she is dropping out to have babies, if she''s in the 70% she will find herself very, very poor with little means of bettering her or her childrens'' situation. Let''s hope she''s in the 30%, because otherwise she''s just sentenced herself to a very, very hard life.


Love is sooooo far from enough in these matters.

And the sad part is, she came from a very hard life. So we all (myself included) want to see her do better for herself.

 

[Sha]

Yeah, my best friend is getting married in a few months to her boyfriend, even though she's repeatedly told us that she couldn't see her self getting married to him or being with him forever, for various reasons..

Sigh... we're still trying to talk to her about it. I'm hoping that if they do go through with it, that things work out for them. The good thing is that they've been together for a good few years - so they obviously have staying power, right? Plus they love it each other a lot. So hopefully things work out, for her sake.

 

[sunnyd]

Ha, since we''re telling stories...

My BF''s best friend is dating this girl who has got to be the most jealous, controlling, possessive, incessant worrier of all time. They''ve been together for 2-3 years (not sure) and the guys can''t figure out why. She''s 21, he''s 25, and this is her first serious relationship, if not her first actual relationship. She asks where he''s going, who with, etc. No going out with the guys, because if he''s not with her, he''ll obviously cheat.

She got mad at him when the 4 of us were having dinner because he was telling a story and looking at me while telling it! At another friend''s house, she took a calendar with a naked lady off the wall because she didn''t want her BF to be looking at it. It''s kinda scary to watch really...they live together and plan on marrying eventually, but my poor BF feels almost guilty for letting his friend go through this. But he can only hope that one of them realizes that something''s wrong.

 

[This_Is_Amore]

Unfortunately I''m watching a similar train wreck of a situation with one of my best friends. My friend (who is male), dated this gal for a year our sophomore year in college, and it was a disaster! She was clingy, manipulative, and completely cut him off from all of his friends. One instance that particularly stands out was when a group of us were out of town for an engagement party for one of our friends from home, and she got drunk and called him threatening to commit suicide unless he came back immediately! I was SO relieved when he finally ended things with her... only to see them get back together a year later! Now they''re getting married, and I''m not going to the wedding. It was a really tough decision to make, but I absolutely cannot attend the celebration as I feel it would be condoning their marriage, which I just cannot do.

I''m already hoping the divorce comes quickly, and before they have kids. Hopefully with both parties alive. I truly can''t comprehend what my friend''s thought process is with this one... and it''s ridiculously hard to watch.

 

[julabean]

Sigh. Yes, I know someone like this and she just happens to be my sister.

I should preface this by saying that my sister has been married once before and I try not to use that experience against her. Her ex-husband was a big jerk and people always wondered what she saw in him. And then they got married and then they got divorced. Which most people expected. Her new fiance is not a big jerk.

My future BIL is a really really great guy. He''s easy going, he''s nice, he''s funny, he has his head on his shoulders. And when my sister and him first got together, they were SO great with each other.

And now? Six months out from their wedding? They''re just kind of...ho hum. They lead totally separate lives. She is always picking at him and he is always ignoring her. It''s not that apart the two of them are depressed, it just seems whenever they are together both are miserable. (Maybe that works for them?) I wish them the best, I really really do, because I''m still convinced this guy is, ultimately, RIGHT for my sister, but the rest of my family doesn''t seem to think so. So...I''ve been kind of dreading getting to my wedding date because afterwards it''s going to put all the attention on my sister and I want everything to go smoothly. Part of me wonders, though, if it should happen at all. Everyone (meaning...all of my extended family who my family is super close to!) makes side comments to me that they aren''t worried about my wedding, but they sure are about my sister! And...what do you say to that? "Gee, Grandma, I''m glad you have so much faith in my wedding, but...uh...yeah." I don''t know if it''s just her history with a failed marriage already or if they...kind of see what I see: two people, who used to be very good for each other, kind of...fizzling.

Anyway. Yes. I understand. I can only hope couples like this the best they can do.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

With the staggering divorce statistics, its not completely crazy to think that this marriage might not work out. I think everyone has that friend whose relationship seems like a train wreck in the making, it''s sad but it''s also predestined when you marry someone you shouldn''t.

I think this girl was very out of line with the comment she made about your diamond. It''s great that she has a 2.5 ct EC, but not everyone has the same priorities...size isn''t king for every single girl--and to be so blunt as to point it out is pretty tackless. I have a 2+carat PC and my best friend has a 1.0cttw ering...we''ve never compared or contrasted our erings...I think hers is absolutely stunning, and she feels the same for mine....but we''re bff''s and thats our job!

I think that this girl, when she makes a point of knocking you down (like she did), knows that there are issues in her relationship. My Momma always called it "blowing someones candle out to make yours burn brighter". I am sure she sits back and has appreciation for the relationship you and your F share...and I am sure the carat weight of her diamond is the ONE thing she feels she can hold over you--like a grown up version of "na-na-boo-boo".

I would blow it off...and not worry about yourself about her relationship woos...

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Date: 2/25/2008 10:49:05 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
With the staggering divorce statistics, its not completely crazy to think that this marriage might not work out. I think everyone has that friend whose relationship seems like a train wreck in the making, it''s sad but it''s also predestined when you marry someone you shouldn''t.


I think this girl was very out of line with the comment she made about your diamond. It''s great that she has a 2.5 ct EC, but not everyone has the same priorities...size isn''t king for every single girl--and to be so blunt as to point it out is pretty tackless. I have a 2+carat PC and my best friend has a 1.0cttw ering...we''ve never compared or contrasted our erings...I think hers is absolutely stunning, and she feels the same for mine....but we''re bff''s and thats our job!


I think that this girl, when she makes a point of knocking you down (like she did), knows that there are issues in her relationship. My Momma always called it ''blowing someones candle out to make yours burn brighter''. I am sure she sits back and has appreciation for the relationship you and your F share...and I am sure the carat weight of her diamond is the ONE thing she feels she can hold over you--like a grown up version of ''na-na-boo-boo''.


I would blow it off...and not worry about yourself about her relationship woos...

Wow I love that phrase, never heard it before, but I love it!

 

[Elmorton]

One of my girlfriends married 2 weeks before us and it was one of those marriages that we never thought would work - wait - part of us still believes it won''t, but now for different reasons. They have very different goals in life and come from very different backgrounds and are very vocal about what is wrong with their marriage/lives. Yet, as difficult as it can be at times, we''ve tried get over it and support them when they ask.

Another friend of mine married at 21 to a guy who already had 2 kids (2 and 4) from a completely disasterous marriage. He proposed the day after the divorce was final - in a Sam''s club. She changed the wedding date 4 times due to her family''s participation/lack of participation/disapproval/approval, and by the time they walked down the aisle, she was already 3 mos preggo. It was sooooo the wedding we never expected to even happen, let alone a marriage I thought would last. They''ve been married now for 5 years, had a second baby (who has down syndrome and serious medical problems - this couple has been through so much), they own a house, work hard, and keep it together with a lot, a lot of love. Their marriage has REALLY taught me not to judge what I see from the outside of a relationship.

So, while DH and I have had the convo "if 50% of marriages fail, how will would our friends'' divorce(s) affect us" - I don''t think there''s much point in worrying about it until it happens. Sometimes people surprise you.

 

[vespergirl]

Eh, I guess you never know. Sometimes people their attitudes once they''re married. When I met my husband, his best friend was going through a horrible divorce & custody battle, and on our second date, he told me that he wasn''t sure if he ever wanted to get married. A few months into our relationship, he told me that he never thought that he could love anyone as much as me, and wanted to marry me someday. Then we lived together for about a year, and were planning to get engaged once he finished his MBA. What happened instead was I accidentally got pregnant (barrier methods are not as effective as BCPs!) and he went from a golfing, partying 34 year old to Mr. Model Husband & Father overnight. The day I told him I was pregnant he proposed, and the next day he took me ring shopping. We had a destination wedding a few weeks later (I didn''t want to show in my dress Then he sold his townhome & bought a single-family house, totally stopped going drinking with his buddies, and settled into being Mr. Reliable. He even traded in his BMW for a family-style SUV for me, because he wanted his family driving around in a safer car. He knew that I always wanted to stay home to raise my kids, and he made sure that would be possible for our family. So, he totally transformed from a "bon vivant" who was afraid of the final commitment, to the husband that comes home for dinner with his family every night, who''s the envy of all my friends. I''ve asked him what caused the big change, and he said that he thought the pregnancy was fate''s way of telling him to hurry up & propose, and he is so much happier in family life than he ever was in single life - he feels like he finally has purpose.

So, it could be that maybe your friend is having the same kind of epiphany - not to say that it isn''t scary to "take the plunge," but you never know, they may just surprise you guys