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Emeralds & Asschers

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goobear78

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 20, 2008
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Hi all,

I''m new here. I''ve been lurking for a few days now and decided to post about my search. I''m searching for an Emerald cut loose diamond. I''m also looking at Asscher (not Royal Asscher) cut loose diamonds too. I like both the E and A cuts equally. My budget is $10,000. I can go above that for the right thing.

I''m looking for a color grade of G or better, at least VVS2 or better, ideal cut and at least 1.01.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions on where to look and what I should look for. I feel like I''ve got some of the basics down, but I know I need more than that.

Thanks!
 
Here's my cheat sheet for asscher stats:

Asscher
depth: 65-70
table 55-56
crown 12-17

The steps obviously need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. For Asschers there are different step patterns, some appeal more to individuals more than others. The search function seems to be down now, but Strmrdr has done some nice threads on the different styles. Good luck with your search!

ETA: This one at JA might be worth getting an ASET of if possible. It has nice fat corners, which is my preference, but may be dark.
 
Date: 6/20/2008 11:28:34 AM
Author:goobear78
Hi all,

I'm new here. I've been lurking for a few days now and decided to post about my search. I'm searching for an Emerald cut loose diamond. I'm also looking at Asscher (not Royal Asscher) cut loose diamonds too. I like both the E and A cuts equally. My budget is $10,000. I can go above that for the right thing.

I'm looking for a color grade of G or better, at least VVS2 or better, ideal cut and at least 1.01.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions on where to look and what I should look for. I feel like I've got some of the basics down, but I know I need more than that.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Welcome!

I would contact an expert such as Jon at www.goodoldgold.com, tell him what you are looking for, and let him see what he can find for you. Also although high clarity can be good in these shapes, unless VVS is your strong preference, some VS can be completely eyeclean, and can broaden the options. An experienced vendor can be invaluable to help you find the right diamond in these shapes.
 
How important is spread to you? I only ask because emeralds tend to be a bit spreadier than asschers (given they aren''t deeply-cut emeralds).

Any reason in particular you are sticking with IF, VVS1 or VVS2? I think dropping down the the VS-range is safe. I do think G or better in color is good if she is color sensitive.

There are no "ideal" cuts with asschers or emeralds, so the best thing to do is see what you like with your eyes. Patterning, size of windmills, L:W ratios. Speaking of L:W ratios, you mention 1:1.01, but do you know what kind of L:W ratio you''d like for an emerald cut?

I think Mercoledi''s cheat sheet numbers are good for an asscher, though I''d probably up the table % to 60%. Mine is actually 63%, which I didn''t think I''d want, but I really liked it in person. I tend to love smaller tables with as much crown height as possible, but these are the kinds of things you have to see to know what you like.
 
I have no idea about ratios and such so any suggestions are very welcome.

I''m not stuck in VVS2, but clarity is important to me. I''ve heard others mention VS being ok. Why is that? Guess I really sound like a newbie. LOL.
 
Date: 6/20/2008 11:43:50 AM
Author: NewEnglandLady


There are no ''ideal'' cuts with asschers or emeralds, so the best thing to do is see what you like with your eyes. Patterning, size of windmills, L:W ratios. Speaking of L:W ratios, you mention 1:1.01, but do you know what kind of L:W ratio you''d like for an emerald cut?
Click to expand...

What is L:W ratio? And what should I look for in a EC AC cut?

I really want to get the best (and biggest) diamond for the money I''ve got to spend.

Thanks!
 
L:W ratio is the length to width ratio. So if you are looking for an asscher and want it to be very square, you want as close to a 1:1 ratio as you can find (usually up to 1:1.05). If you''re looking at emeralds and know you want one that is exactly twice as long as it is wide, then you''d want something like a 1:1.5. If you like for your emeralds to be a little "fatter", then you''d go with something like a 1:1.3. I think there has been a tool posted in the past where you can play with these ratios? It might be in the tutorial?

I would definitely follow Lorelei''s suggestion and give Jon at goodoldgold a call--if you let him know what you are looking for he''ll be able to find you some great stones for your budget and teach you quite a big as well. He has some fantastic videos on his website of various stones.
 
L:W is length to width. Asschers/square emerald cuts are by definition square, so you want a L:W near 1. These ratios vary more widely for emerald cuts and are therefore a matter of preference. Fat emeralds v. tall skinny ones. You can browse this thread for some EC eye-candy and to get an idea of different step-cut shapes.

ETA: cross posted with NEL!

Generally step cut are going to be deeper than round brilliants. You want to look for excellent symmetry and a small table/high crown to maximize fire and sparkle. Also step cuts will show inclusions and color more readily. If you stick to VS stones, you should be OK. All of these factors are relative, so it's a little harder to say that the measurements should be x x and x for an EC. Try reading recent EC threads, I think there have been some nice ones lately.
 
There is a shape selector tool here that''s pretty handy. Just click on your diamond''s cut and then enter the dimensions and it''ll tell you the ratio.

10.gif
 
Great thanks!

I''ve been looking online at Blue Nile, James Allen, WF. Does anyone have any opinion for those online retailers dealing with EC and AC cuts? There doesn''t seem to be a ton of inventory for those cuts.
 
Fancy cuts really need to be seen to be judged. Blue Nile isn't set up so that you can call and ask someone to look at the stone you're interested in. For that reason I'd stick with James Allen, Whiteflash, Good Old Gold or EngagementRingsDirect. For most of these vendors you'll do better to call and tell them what you're looking for than you will just browsing the online stock. That data isn't always up-to-date or wholly inclusive.

ETA: Asscher at GOG. The windmills on this are a little small for my taste, but it's probably a nice stone. You'd have to call Jon to find out more.
 
Date: 6/20/2008 2:18:55 PM
Author: mercoledi
Fancy cuts really need to be seen to be judged. Blue Nile isn''t set up so that you can call and ask someone to look at the stone you''re interested in. For that reason I''d stick with James Allen, Whiteflash, Good Old Gold or EngagementRingsDirect. For most of these vendors you''ll do better to call and tell them what you''re looking for than you will just browsing the online stock. That data isn''t always up-to-date or wholly inclusive.


ETA: Asscher at GOG. The windmills on this are a little small for my taste, but it''s probably a nice stone. You''d have to call Jon to find out more.
Click to expand...

Love that stone. Thanks for passing it on! And I''ll take your advice and call.

I was just looking at this one at JA:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Emerald-Diamond-1119050.asp

Honestly, my head is starting to spin with all the facts that I need to look for. :)
 
How important is GIA vs AGS?
 
Date: 6/20/2008 11:34:29 AM
Author: mercoledi
Here''s my cheat sheet for asscher stats:


Asscher

depth: 65-70

table 55-56

crown 12-17


The steps obviously need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. For Asschers there are different step patterns, some appeal more to individuals more than others. The search function seems to be down now, but Strmrdr has done some nice threads on the different styles. Good luck with your search!


ETA: This one at JA might be worth getting an ASET of if possible. It has nice fat corners, which is my preference, but may be dark.
Click to expand...

Thanks I like that stone too - what''s an ASET?
 
Recent thread nicely describing GIA v AGS

An ASET or IS image measures the light return on a stone. It''s sort of a red/white/black(IS) or color (ASET) image that helps assess the stone''s performance. GOG and WF have to tools to provide those images on in-house stones. I don''t know about JA but it can''t hurt to ask. There''s an Asscher/IS thread here. Hopefully some of the real experts will chime in soon.
 
Actually, I don't know if you're interested in buying a pre-set stone, but have you seen this ring?

Also, Pearlman's has gobs of Daniel K asschers in their closeout section. Different setting. And again. These are listed many times at different price points, so you have to tab through all of them. Be sure to tell any vendor you speak with that you're a PS member, membership has it's privileges .
2.gif
 
Date: 6/20/2008 2:18:55 PM
Author: mercoledi
Fancy cuts really need to be seen to be judged. Blue Nile isn''t set up so that you can call and ask someone to look at the stone you''re interested in. For that reason I''d stick with James Allen, Whiteflash, Good Old Gold or EngagementRingsDirect. For most of these vendors you''ll do better to call and tell them what you''re looking for than you will just browsing the online stock. That data isn''t always up-to-date or wholly inclusive.

ETA: Asscher at GOG. The windmills on this are a little small for my taste, but it''s probably a nice stone. You''d have to call Jon to find out more.
Click to expand...
Great suggestion--that''s a lovely asscher!

The emerald you posted, Goobear, looks okay. I think it just comes down to shape preferences--I like a fatter emerald, but it''s completley subjective. That''s why the ol'' eyes are so important.
 

Welcome! Obviously, the more parameters you have, and the narrower the choice in each, the fewer options you''ll have.



The above may sound obvious, but when I started searching for an EC, I had 10 (yes, ten!) things I was looking for. It can drive you nuts! (... or in my case, even nuttier!). Try to broaden your choices: I chose a really well cut J -- I hardly can see any color. I got a VS1: neither I nor my DW can see a thing with a 10x loupe, let alone with naked eyes.



L:W ratio is VERY subjective and personal -- but I think very important; it sets the tone for the ''look-and-feel'' of the stone. Use the shape tester given above, and look at some real stones to get an idea. The ''generally'' agreed-upon sweetspot is 1.3 to 1.4, with perhaps down to 1.2 still OK. YOUR mileage (preference) might vary.

I was concerned that mine (my DW''s!) of 1.23 would look too fat, but we both love it. You can searched my other posts for ring and stone pics.

--ECQ (no longer).
 
Date: 6/20/2008 11:34:29 AM
Author: mercoledi
Here's my cheat sheet for asscher stats:

Asscher
depth: 65-70
table 55-56
crown 12-17

The steps obviously need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. For Asschers there are different step patterns, some appeal more to individuals more than others. The search function seems to be down now, but Strmrdr has done some nice threads on the different styles. Good luck with your search!

ETA: This one at JA might be worth getting an ASET of if possible. It has nice fat corners, which is my preference, but may be dark.
Click to expand...
Mercoledi's post is almost right on... but a little restrictive in some ways. "ideal' specs for asschers are very similar to those of Emerald cuts as well.

Depth can be shallower than above, and it can be deeper as well (deeper should come with a discount as you lose spread)
Table is way too restrictive. Low fifties to low sixties is fine. As long as the crown height is over 11% you are okay with a larger table.
The girdle should be even... wide fluctations warrant a phone call and in person examine by vendor.
Symmetry is key with all step cuts so the better the symmetry the better.
Polish isn't as important. But its nice to have Very Good Polish. Sometimes poliish can be dinged for one facet though when the rest is just fine so if the polish is graded low, ask the vendor to look at it and tell you why.

And with ANY fancy all of them need to be seen to be evaluated.
 
In reply to your question re: why VS clarity is OK, the fact is that if it is a GIA or AGS graded stone, you shouldn''t be able to see any inclusions in a VS1 for sure, and 99% (at least) of VS2s should be eye clean as well. If you were hunting a round brilliant (or other highly faceted stone) most SI1s, and a select cherry-picked number of SI2s would be eyeclean as well. However, an SI1 might be less likely to be eyeclean in an Asscher or emerald, because the stone is less busy facet-wise, so you look farther into the stone, which means it is more likely you can spot an inclusion. But I still suspect if you are patient you could find an eyeclean SI clarity Asscher cut or emerald cut.

So, if you don''t have a sentimental reason for shopping for a VVS or IF stone, you can certainly find eyeclean VS and possibly SI clarity step cut stones. And save some $$ doing it.
 
Ditto LittleGreyKitten on the clarity. I would not pay the $$ for VVS for ANY stone unless it was a) cultural, sentimental, or religious reason, or b) the only stone I could find that had everything I wanted... which happens sometimes with fancies, there may be nothing else that meets your requirements in terms of color, cut and size exept a higher clarity stone. But I wouldn't go searching for one, personally.

I have a VS1 asscher and I can't find ANYTHING without a highpowered loupe from any angle. Just flat out can't. You have to look at fancies to pick them anyway. So you can safely go down to VS2... and have the vendor look at it. Be sure to tell them your definition of eyeclean when you ask them for an evalution. As long as you stick to a reputable PS vendor with a reputation with honesty on the issue of clarity you should be just fine.

Here's someone's eyeclean SI1 asscher:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/got-an-asscher-today.87014/
 
goobear-Just for reference, I have an H-VS2 Asscher that is perfectly eye-clean with just a hint of warmth. If I had it to do all over again, maybe I would bump up to G, but not if it was a huge sacrifice in carat size (you need all the carat size you can get in an Asscher b/c the spread is so small). From what I''ve seen, ECs face up a little larger than Asschers, but IMHO give off a totally different look.

I think, regarding color and clarity, G-H and VS1-2 is the sweet spot!
 
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