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Elizabeth Warren's plan to end government corruption

ame

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Matata|1455758269|3992360 said:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/24/elizabeth-warren-blasts-the-entire-u-s-congress-for-their-corruption-video/
I LOVE her.
 

Karl_K

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What about the billions the big unions pour into elections that is just as bad but not a word about it.
imho public service unions should be banned from all forms of election activities.
 

ame

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Karl_K|1455813605|3992582 said:
What about the billions the big unions pour into elections that is just as bad but not a word about it.
imho public service unions should be banned from all forms of election activities.
I disagree. Unions that protect workers--public and private--are needed now more than ever before. They preserve, if nothing else, wages for a huge portion of the population. They help protect working conditions for EVERYONE. Most people have what they have in the first place because of Unions. When you see public sector workers in high rank making HUGE salaries while their underlings are barely making a living wage, that's why we need Unions for public sector workers. Unions are the reason most people have a 5 day work week, and a 40 hour work week, and insurance, and all of the "perks" we expect and demand. And they're going away at breakneck pace. Unions are not the problem in election activities--Corporate interests are. When a company owns a candidate, that changes everything. The candidate no longer works for the people, they work for the billionaire bribing them to do their bidding. That's one person paying for one person vs an organization supporting hundreds/thousands of people. Unions don't own candidates, they don't even have the same kind of financial pull. They work for the membership they represent--hundreds and thousands of people, depending on the union.

I may not be a union member, but man, I am thankful every f'ing day for Unions, and I am glad that their memberships are actually growing again.
 

packrat

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Unions started out that way. That's not what they (d)evolved into. Any group that will fight for the right of someone to work regardless what they do while on the job is worthless in my eyes. You can come to work drunk/stoned, you can be high as a kite, put others lives in jeopardy, not to mention your own, you can do a piss poor job *at* your job, you can pick fights, you can be abusive, you can call people the worst things imaginable, you can threaten, you can do whatever you want-and the union will back you up the vast majority of the time. My entire family has had experience w/unions and back in the day it used to be a source of pride to belong to a union. Now, not so much. Now it's spoken of w/derision. The people in the higher echelons of the unions are making top dollar, lining their pockets, and are now just as corrupt as the government.
 

kenny

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ame|1455812678|3992579 said:
Matata|1455758269|3992360 said:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/24/elizabeth-warren-blasts-the-entire-u-s-congress-for-their-corruption-video/
I LOVE her.
Me too, but she'll probably be taken out.
Too much money/power is at stake.
 

Karl_K

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packrat|1455823040|3992635 said:
Unions started out that way. That's not what they (d)evolved into. Any group that will fight for the right of someone to work regardless what they do while on the job is worthless in my eyes. You can come to work drunk/stoned, you can be high as a kite, put others lives in jeopardy, not to mention your own, you can do a piss poor job *at* your job, you can pick fights, you can be abusive, you can call people the worst things imaginable, you can threaten, you can do whatever you want-and the union will back you up the vast majority of the time. My entire family has had experience w/unions and back in the day it used to be a source of pride to belong to a union. Now, not so much. Now it's spoken of w/derision. The people in the higher echelons of the unions are making top dollar, lining their pockets, and are now just as corrupt as the government.
My dad was UAW Proud for 28 years working for Chrysler.
They did do a lot of good but they have become part of the problem not part of the solution.


Public service Unions paying bribes(campaign contributions) to elected officials should not be allowed.
Union members of course should be allowed to but not the Unions themselves.
 

packrat

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Yep, many in my family were proud UFCW members-we had (until last year) a huge packing plant here-my dad started when he came back from Vietnam, and retired from there a couple years ago. The men there, mostly the ones around dad's age, by golly, they wore their UFCW hats/jackets and they were puffed up w/pride. It used to be a big deal if you worked at a union plant-that was gold standard and you were one of the lucky ones.

Sadly, that's gone the way of the dodo.

Even now, working in the school district, I am not union, I am hourly. The teachers can join the union. And to hear them talk.."Eh, so and so joined the union and is a sucky teacher-admin can't touch them now" Yep, cuz that's what we want, shitty teachers that are untouchable.
 

Karl_K

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ame|1455818166|3992605 said:
Karl_K|1455813605|3992582 said:
Corporate interests are. When a company owns a candidate, that changes everything. The candidate no longer works for the people, they work for the billionaire bribing them to do their bidding
I agree that is a problem also.

I live in IL and in the middle of the 2008 recession the public unions had enough pull to get a tax increase through in IL that stole money from me and went directly into the pockets of public union members and the unions. That extra tax really hurt. Public union pensions are bankrupting the state of IL and they have held up the state budget for months because the Governor will not sign off on increases to the public unions and tax increases to pay for them.
A lot of people are not getting help because of it, the homeless and mentally ill have been hard hit by organizations being forced to close because the state partnership money is being held hostage by the power of the public unions for their own benefit and those that they bribe.
 

ame

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packrat|1455823040|3992635 said:
Unions started out that way. That's not what they (d)evolved into. Any group that will fight for the right of someone to work regardless what they do while on the job is worthless in my eyes. You can come to work drunk/stoned, you can be high as a kite, put others lives in jeopardy, not to mention your own, you can do a piss poor job *at* your job, you can pick fights, you can be abusive, you can call people the worst things imaginable, you can threaten, you can do whatever you want-and the union will back you up the vast majority of the time. My entire family has had experience w/unions and back in the day it used to be a source of pride to belong to a union. Now, not so much. Now it's spoken of w/derision. The people in the higher echelons of the unions are making top dollar, lining their pockets, and are now just as corrupt as the government.
I disagree with this as well. SOME Unions are not run well. SOME Union workers are not good workers and generally suck as people and SOME Union officers are not good leadership for their membership. I tend to think of the Carpenters Union as one of those with crappy leadership. Those few obviously make people who feel like they've been duped and screwed over angry, and feel misled. They make crappy decisions for the majority of the members to benefit a few. It's not always great. But as a WHOLE, it's helped ALL. The Teachers Union and the UAW have both caused strife for their members.

The derision is mostly because of the way Unions have been made into a political adversary by corporations. They've been turned into an anti-American scapegoat by the pro-Business movement, as though the Union is costing them profits. It's quite the contrary. The Unions are why people get living wages, and why people's jobs are spared when a manager is divisive, abusive, racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory. They fight for ALL people, not just some people. This whole anti-Union mentality in this country has been perpetuated by corporations who do not like when the worker has a voice of his or her own. If someone is standing up for themselves, the corporation can't shit on the worker, can't send their jobs overseas and can't pay them sub-par wages.

Karl_K|1455824860|3992647 said:
ame|1455818166|3992605 said:
Karl_K|1455813605|3992582 said:
Corporate interests are. When a company owns a candidate, that changes everything. The candidate no longer works for the people, they work for the billionaire bribing them to do their bidding
I agree that is a problem also.

I live in IL and in the middle of the 2008 recession the public unions had enough pull to get a tax increase through in IL that stole money from me and went directly into the pockets of public union members and the unions. That extra tax really hurt. Public union pensions are bankrupting the state of IL and they have held up the state budget for months because the Governor will not sign off on increases to the public unions and tax increases to pay for them.
A lot of people are not getting help because of it, the homeless and mentally ill have been hard hit by organizations being forced to close because the state partnership money is being held hostage by the power of the public unions for their own benefit and those that they bribe.
That pension thing is actually less the Union's issue and more the State's issue. The state didn't properly fund that from the start, it should've been entirely self funded from their checks, not from taxpayer money, and the State raided the pension fund to pay for stuff that was not Pension related and never paid it back. That's not those workers' fault, that's not the pensioners' fault. That's the State Government's fault plain and simple. Those people earned that money. THEY did not rip anyone off. The state STOLE their retirement money to pay for other things and they're being blamed for something they had nothing to do with. That's a common occurrence with Pensions in general. The company, or the state, or whoever, didn't set up the fund properly, and then when they need money, the state or company sees a war chest they can raid, even though stealing a pension fund is illegal (there are entire systems of laws written specifically to protect pensions) and the fines for touching them are massive. They seem to think that those little "loans" they're taking from those funds are going to be repaid when "times get better." Well times never do, and suddenly there isn't a warchest there anymore.
 

Karl_K

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ame|1455830623|3992685 said:
That pension thing is actually less the Union's issue and more the State's issue. The state didn't properly fund that from the start, it should've been entirely self funded from their checks, not from taxpayer money, and the State raided the pension fund to pay for stuff that was not Pension related and never paid it back. That's not those workers' fault, that's not the pensioners' fault. That's the State Government's fault plain and simple. Those people earned that money. THEY did not rip anyone off. The state STOLE their retirement money to pay for other things and they're being blamed for something they had nothing to do with. That's a common occurrence with Pensions in general. The company, or the state, or whoever, didn't set up the fund properly, and then when they need money, the state or company sees a war chest they can raid, even though stealing a pension fund is illegal (there are entire systems of laws written specifically to protect pensions) and the fines for touching them are massive. They seem to think that those little "loans" they're taking from those funds are going to be repaid when "times get better." Well times never do, and suddenly there isn't a warchest there anymore.
The unions are the ones that bribed and bullied the state into a pension plan that was just not possible and have been fighting any changes for decades.
They were also the ones pushing for all the stuff that the state spent the money on they could have put in a fund.
It has been all take and take for decades.

Sure they pay taxes to but if you take a 100 buckets of water out of a pool and put 3 back in its still going to empty the pool.
 

ame

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Pensions don't work that way. It's not that simple as take take take.
 

packrat

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Some are good, yes. Like I said, it used to be a thing of pride. It's not anymore.
 

packrat

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Karl_K|1455834000|3992714 said:
ame|1455830623|3992685 said:
That pension thing is actually less the Union's issue and more the State's issue. The state didn't properly fund that from the start, it should've been entirely self funded from their checks, not from taxpayer money, and the State raided the pension fund to pay for stuff that was not Pension related and never paid it back. That's not those workers' fault, that's not the pensioners' fault. That's the State Government's fault plain and simple. Those people earned that money. THEY did not rip anyone off. The state STOLE their retirement money to pay for other things and they're being blamed for something they had nothing to do with. That's a common occurrence with Pensions in general. The company, or the state, or whoever, didn't set up the fund properly, and then when they need money, the state or company sees a war chest they can raid, even though stealing a pension fund is illegal (there are entire systems of laws written specifically to protect pensions) and the fines for touching them are massive. They seem to think that those little "loans" they're taking from those funds are going to be repaid when "times get better." Well times never do, and suddenly there isn't a warchest there anymore.
The unions are the ones that bribed and bullied the state into a pension plan that was just not possible and have been fighting any changes for decades.
They were also the ones pushing for all the stuff that the state spent the money on they could have put in a fund.
It has been all take and take for decades.

Sure they pay taxes to but if you take a 100 buckets of water out of a pool and put 3 back in its still going to empty the pool.
UFCW--dad's pension, all those people who worked at the pack for 40 plus years-guess where their pensions went? No water in that pool either.
 
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