Eightstar vs. Whiteflash ACA

[dandoboy]

From what I''ve read and heard, both of these stones are great. Unfortunately, I have no way of seeing either of these stones in person without purchase.

Now, removing cost from the equation, which stone do you, the Pricescope community prefer and why?

 

[ame]

I like the look of Eightstar because I have a stone now that is cut with more facets and I would probably go for this over the ACA. Actually Id go Solasfera. I do love the look of the crisp arrows in the ACA though. Which is why I have aca''s in my wedding ring.

 

[belle]

ame, i think you are confusing eightstar and eighternity. 8* has the same number of facets as any other h&a.

'8* has a certain look that some people like and others do not necessarily find as their favorite. the big positive is their performance in soft light because of the lgf cutting. aca are tuned for a visual balance that performs near 8* in soft light and with the best cut h&a in bright light. my preference is easily the aca.

 

[ame]

Oh yea i am.

stupid 8s.

 

[strmrdr]

ACA anyday.
They are much better balanced performance wise.

 

[kenny]

Dandoboy wrote:
"From what I've read and heard, both of these stones are great.  Unfortunately, I have no way of seeing either of these stones in person without purchase."

Not quite true.

Buy the ACA and bring it into a store that carries Eightstar, call first.
Compare them side by side.

Keep the ACA if you prefer it or feel it is a better value (it's probably less than half the price.)
Return the ACA withing the return period if you decide to not keep it.
I think you will only be out shipping one way.

 

[dandoboy]

I live in Canada (closest Eightstar dealer to me is a 6 hour drive to Upstate Michigan). I would have to buy both stones, examine them both side by side, and then decide. Unfortunately I don''t have the finances to buy two amazing stones, even if only for approval.

 

[dandoboy]

I'm getting a strong sense of support for ACA over Eightstar here. I'm not sure if this sense is stemming from the negative attitudes towards certain stones or their prices, or from true, blind comparisons.

It's unfortunate that everyone has an innate bias towards the world that is strongly affected by what they read and take in (I myself have been flip-flopping between being an ACA advocate and Eightstar fan like night and day, depending on what threads I've read, what pictures I've seen, or even for no apparent reason).

More comments would be welcomed with open arms.

 

[lawmax]

Date: 10/14/2005 12:37:29 AM
Author: dandoboy
I''m getting a strong sense of support for ACA over Eightstar here. I''m not sure if this sense is stemming from the negative attitudes towards certain stones or their prices, or from true, blind comparisons.

It''s unfortunate that everyone has an innate bias towards the world that is strongly affected by what they read and take in (I myself have been flip-flopping between being an ACA advocate and Eightstar fan like night and day, depending on what threads I''ve read, what pictures I''ve seen, or even for no apparent reason).

More comments would be welcomed with open arms.

dandoboy,

Your perceptions appear to be right on. There is an anti-EightStar bias of sorts here which is mainly due to the priorities of the consumers and vendors who are vocal on this forum. I would wonder as well just how many consumers have actually had the opportunity to examine both ACA and EightStar side by side in many lighting conditions and lived with them over the long-term. I would venture to say that the number is close to zero. EightStar is special for so many reasons...it''s provenance, the artisanship, the rarity, the origination of the style to which many have come close but none has equaled....you are talking in many ways about apples and oranges here. People from all over the world buy EightStars sight unseen. If you like the look, than there is no equal. The consistency is unmatched and each diamond is cut to the needs of the individual crystal.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I have been an EightStar owner for four years. I have also had the opportunity to examine both stones side by side and have been to the EightStar factory. I''ve seen the cutters working, talked to them and know what an incredible piece of sculpted art they are unveiling when they produce an EightStar.

What does your heart tell you when you consider each one? Go with your gut and what is important to you. That''s what the rest of us are doing and that is how it should be so we are each happy with our decisions. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 10/14/2005 12:37:29 AM
Author: dandoboy
I''m getting a strong sense of support for ACA over Eightstar here. I''m not sure if this sense is stemming from the negative attitudes towards certain stones or their prices, or from true, blind comparisons.


It''s unfortunate that everyone has an innate bias towards the world that is strongly affected by what they read and take in (I myself have been flip-flopping between being an ACA advocate and Eightstar fan like night and day, depending on what threads I''ve read, what pictures I''ve seen, or even for no apparent reason).


More comments would be welcomed with open arms.

I recently started doing some research on Eightstar''s myself and found the same thing. My guess it''s a little of all the factors you mentioned above. A lot folks come here wanting to become educated as well as get the most bang for their buck. Some don''t find the extra cost of a branded stone worth it, while others do. There are a few who have seen and compared both and have their preference. I for one have never seen a Eightstar but am very curious to see if I can tell the differences with my own eyes. If it were me, I''d figure out a way to see both in person, even make the 6 hours drive. This site is very educational but it cannot tell you what your eyes will see.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 10/13/2005 10:25:11 PM
Author: dandoboy
I live in Canada (closest Eightstar dealer to me is a 6 hour drive to Upstate Michigan). I would have to buy both stones, examine them both side by side, and then decide. Unfortunately I don''t have the finances to buy two amazing stones, even if only for approval.

Another procedural option for comparing...you may be able to have either both sent at no cost to an independent appraiser for your review in their office, in advance of a purchase commitment. Or, it is likely that WF would do this, at least, saving you the need to purchase at least one of those two outright, before your final commitment.

 

[mepearl53]

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

Lawmax you said it all in a nut shell. This short observation should apply to the way everyone looks at beauty and life in general for we all process things in our own way.

 

[elmo]

Date: 10/14/2005 8:10:08 AM
Author: lawmax
Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.

Date: 10/13/2005 10:25:11 PM
Author: dandoboy
Unfortunately I don''t have the finances to buy two amazing stones, even if only for approval.

I think it''s important to understand that if you''re not seeing both stones, you are buying the beauty of the marketing story not the visual beauty of the brand you select. Not that there''s a problem with that - but understanding this may help with the decision.

 

[joycer]

Wink Jones may be able to help you. He''s a great guy to deal with and a regular to the forums. He sells Eightstars and Infinity H&A diamonds and may be able to help you with your decision.

As for the bias on this forum, I think there would be an altogether different opinion on 8*s if they were dollar for dollar the same cost as other H&A. Whether that cost is justified is up to you, I for one think it is.

-joycer

 

[Rhino]

Good input.

Dando, have you actually compared the measurements of the 2 stones you are considering in a run down for each set of facets? If you do that and understand what optical differences the measurements make and mean that will help you.

 

[Giangi]

I have seen an eightstar and wasn''t THAT pleased. I must say I had high expectations. The arrows pattern was very evident and prnounced... almost too much actually... The black ''''star'''' looked quite distracting to me.. In my humble opinion of course.
I really love the look of ACAs, on the other side. I own a small one, from the old collection, and the balance of white and colored light that comes out of that thing is amazing .

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/14/2005 3:46:20 PM
Author: Giangi
I have seen an eightstar and wasn't THAT pleased. I must say I had high expectations. The arrows pattern was very evident and prnounced... almost too much actually... The black ''star'' looked quite distracting to me.. In my humble opinion of course.

That was my experence as well.
They looked dark under the table to me.
The do put on an impressive light show on objects around them however.
If they were the same cost as the ACA's Id consider them but I dont buy into the hype that surounds them and they arent worth the added cost to me.

 

[dandoboy]

I just wanted to share a PM I received from ''Superidealist'' describing his thoughts and comments on Eightstars vs. ACA.


**Posted with permission from author**

I no longer post to the forum but have seen both EightStar and A Cut Above side by side so you may be interested in my opinion. Also let me say that I have never seen the "new line" A Cut Above diamonds, which are said to more closely resemble EightStars, so my observations apply only to "classic" A Cut Above diamonds.

Let me be up front and say that I went with the EightStar, so you know my bias. You may also want to look up my past posts to see where I''m coming from as, due to my criticism of them, I have a reputation on the forum of being "anti-Whiteflash" despite my being on good terms with some members of the management there. In light of this, feel free to give the testimony that follows whatever weight you feel it deserves.

I saw several of each brand side by side together with unbranded hearts and arrows diamonds when I was shopping for my wife''s engagement diamond a few years back. My jeweler carried both brands at the time and I was able to observe both in a variety of lighting conditions. I had also seen Hearts on Fire, Lazare Kaplan, and SuperbCert diamonds a few days prior to this.

With the naked eye, I didn''t observe much difference between the A Cut Above, Hearts on Fire, Lazare Kaplan, SuperbCert, and unbranded hearts and arrows. They were all beautiful diamonds but were similar in appearance.

The EightStar was noticeably different in direct lighting. I''ll explain how it looks so you can decide for yourself if it may appeal to you (to some it does, to others not). In direct lighting, the EightStars returned no white light (other than facet glare). They seem to convert pretty much 100% of light entering the diamond to rainbows.

Realize that this means that there is little, if any, white light returned in direct lighting. This leads to the "dark" appearance some in your thread have mentioned. For me, this is not unattractive (as it was to some who responded in the thread). The look is somewhat similar to the feeling of "depth" you get with some emerald cuts. Also keep in mind that it is not always dark in direct lighting, just that it is either dark or fireworks are going off.

In a sense, EightStars are at one extreme, opting for fire over white light return in direct lighting. Posters have mentioned that A Cut Aboves are "better balanced" by which I assume they mean that there is a mixture of white light and colored light return in direct lighting, which is true. This was true not only of the A Cut Aboves but all others I saw. Which look you prefer is really all a matter of taste.

The other major difference in the EightStars was that they were cut with wider pavilion mains. (The "new line" A Cut Aboves appear to be cut similarly). This changes the character of the diamond''s scintillation, leading to fewer but larger flashes of light. Again whether you prefer this to the smaller but more frequent flashes found in more traditional cuts is a matter of taste. The size of the diamond probably factors in here as well.

Several people in the thread have mentioned the "prominent black arrows" present in the EightStar. This makes me question whether they have actually seen these diamonds in person or just viewed pictures of them online. When viewed through an Ideal-Scope (or Firescope), the arrows appear black (reflecting the ocular placed above the table); when photographed head-on, the arrows appear black (reflecting the camera lens); but when viewed with the naked eye, the arrows do not appear black but instead reflect whatever light is coming in perpendicular to the table. You can, however make out the star pattern with the naked eye, as you can with many hearts and arrows diamonds.

As to the price, it has been said in the thread that EightStars are "twice as expensive" as A Cut Aboves. This may be true or it may be overstatement. When I priced them they were maybe 30-50% more than ideal cuts with similar stats. They may have gone up since or A Cut Aboves may have come down, but I would price them myself rather than get my prices secondhand.

Now to answer your question: If money were no object, I would choose the EightStar over the A Cut Above. In the case of "classic" A Cut Aboves, I know from direct experience that I prefer the look of the EightStar. In the case of "new line" A Cut Aboves, assuming that the look is similar to EightStar, and bear in mind I have never seen a "new line," I would still choose the EightStar since I feel it to be the "original" that the "new line" is copied from.

Just as Lazare Kaplan cut the first ideals early in the 20th century, EightStars were the first of the so-called superideals, predating the creation of both hearts and arrows diamonds and even the hearts and arrows viewer itself. They predate A Cut Above and Hearts on Fire by about a decade, if I am not mistaken. And while few Pricescopers would agree, I feel that there is value in the heritage of a diamond.

Also in the money-is-no-object category, I might also look into diamonds like the Solasfera (I''ve heard good things) and especially the so-called "Over Excellent" shallow-cut diamonds being produced in Japan by Hohoemi Brains, Inc. I also like the look of Context Cut diamonds and might move in that direction.

Now, if money were an object, I might be tempted to look at the "new line" A Cut Aboves, since these are undoubtedly less expensive than EightStars and may (or may not) be similar in appearance. But then, if money were an object I would probably pass on the A Cut Aboves and go with something from Whiteflash''s "Expert Selection" or another unbranded diamond as A Cut Aboves carry a premium of their own (on the order of 18% last I looked).

In the best of worlds, you would be able to look at all of these side by side, but I take it from your post that this is impossible. Be assured that both EightStars and A Cut Aboves are beautiful diamonds and you can''t really go wrong with either. Also keep in mind that there really is no such thing as a "best" diamond, only one that is best for you.

I hope this has been helpful. It''s likely a different opinion than you would get on the forum but maybe that isn''t such a bad thing.

D Riley

 

[Mara]

I wanted to chime in even though this thread was somewhat old and say that I saw an Eighstar while shopping and while I didn''t know what I was looking at then (~3 years ago)...I also was not knocked off my feet blown away. I was fairly underwhelmed. Yes the LR looked great. Yes the arrows were prominent and crisp under the viewer. But maybe the jeweler lighting is not the best for viewing these types of stones after all because it just did not do it for me. I do have a new line ACA (or Greg does actually) and it''s breathtaking. My J was an ES originally cut to be a new line with that same kind of tweaky girdle light return and it''s stunning.

If both brands were the same it''d be one thing, maybe harder to choose, maybe I or others would give 8* more of a ''chance'' but to me when the markup is that fierce, just like HOF...I tend to think why spend the $$ when you can get something 99.99% the same for cheaper. And budget does come into decisions!

Bottom line for me is that my local jeweler carries 8*s. They had a sweet .50c H I1 one about 2 years ago, boo hoo I haven''t been able to get it, who knows if its still there but it was pretty. Second one I had seen, again not breathtaking OMG but beautiful. I''d love to own one one day just because, I also would like a Jube to add to my collection, collecting some different shapes and brands for comparison purposes and to wear etc. So I would pay the premium in a smaller stone like that to buy an Eighstar, that pendant was priced at something like $1500, not bad 2 years ago but a decided markup for the brand, but at least stomachable! But take that markup and apply it to a larger stone or one not I1? Yikes that''d be alot more to pay.

 

[aljdewey]

I think it's important to make the distinction.......the reason Eightstars aren't highly favored here has nothing to do with the quality of the stone. It has everything to do with the premium that it carries.

That premium doesn't really fit the demographic of the typical Pricescope shopper. Most here are looking for value for the money, as mentioned.

SuperIdealist seemed to really give you a balanced view and some sage advice.

I really believe that one is not "better" than the other; it just depends on which look YOU personally prefer more. That's just tough to determine if you're buying sight unseen. I'm not sure that I personally could justify spending that much more for something without knowing in advance if I prefer that look (which would possibly justify the premium to me).

You've mentioned it's cost prohibitive to bring the diamonds to you. Would it be more possible for you to go to the diamonds? If Whiteflash would be willing to ship to someone who also has access to Eightstars (Wink, maybe??), you could fly there to compare them and then select one without having to pre-purchase. Just a thought.

 

[dandoboy]

I just wanted to add this commentary for completeness and to give opinion to others who are facing the tough decision that I was. Yes, that's right, that I "WAS". I ended up going the ACA route, because they seem to be a #1 choice on this board, the price tag is reasonable, and the specific stone I found was ACA-quality and then a step beyond that! OMG...I can't wait to have it in my hands (in a Mark Morrell setting to boot!).

 

[Kim N]

Date: 11/11/2005 11:19:52 AM
Author: dandoboy

the specific stone I found was ACA-quality and then a step beyond that!

Dandoboy, just curious what you meant by "a step beyond that."

Congrats on your purchase!

 

[dandoboy]

By saying ''a step beyond that'', I meant that it is the nicest ACA stone I have seen in my 6 months of searching. The idealscope image is perfect and crisp. My independent appraiser took a photo of the stone under his own idealscope and he even said that it is the crispest and most beautiful idealscope image he has ever seen. As well, the independent appraisal returned only the best light performance.

You can read my thread on this stone HERE.

And below, the Idealscope image:

 

[Kim N]

Dandoboy, that''s gorgeous.

Lucky you to have such a beautiful diamond!

 

[dyemonds2002]

The way i can tell a huge difference in the ACA new line and the Eightstar is not only by edge to edge brillance but if you look at the firescope image youll see that the Eightstar starts with a long x right in the middle from top to bottom followed by an x sideways from left to right and 8 points thats your optical symmetry right there thats it and in between in the middle displays the arrows with a perfect pink flower in the middle i have yet to see anything just like it

 

[mnemonician]

I have purchased one of the new line ACA from whiteflash.com. I have not received it yet, but will be picking it up tomorrow. I've attached the idealscope image for all to consider, I think it speaks for itself.

 

[mnemonician]

Picked up the diamond today... what a beauty! This was my first diamond purchase so I needed a little help in choosing the right one. I have to say that Kirk from http://www.diamondoptics.com was extremely helpful in explaining the technicalities involved, and even though I didn't buy from him and chose the stone from whiteflash, I still highly respect and value Kirk's approach to diamond sales. The specs on the stone I purchased can be viewed here.

I can't wait to get it set.

 

[glitterata]

Beautiful pattern in the idealscope picture.