Eightstar vs. HOF

[jcdodd]

I have spent an insane amount of time researching diamonds. I am looking for the "perfect" diamond to propose to my girlfriend with, and I want to end up with something she will be amazed with. She deserves only the best. Here''s the story so far:

I bought a Hearts on Fire 1.032 E VS2 that was medium blue florescent... I took it to an Eightstar dealer who had waiting for me, an 8* 1.003 F VS2 which is non florescent. Comparing the two side by side in the firescope, the 8* took the cake hands down. So i returned the HOF and bought the 8*. the HOF cost me 16000 and the 8* was *only* 13600.

Now that I have the 8* at home, i''m looking at it and I see the girdle is frosted! (not polished) I don''t know how i missed that in the store. What effect does this have? Also, the HOF dealer kept bragging about a "vibration free polishing wheel" like it was the end of the world. How much of an advantage is this? I inspected the 8* for polish marks under 30x and couldn''t see any - even with the help of the HOF dealer. honestly, side by side the diamonds both look fantastic and sparkle a TON. The price is not my concern, getting the best diamond is!

My biggest questions is... HOF or 8*?

 

[mrssalvo]

Check out this thread. Also, if you type in non-polished girdle or polished girdle a bunch of old threads will pop up they may also help you. I'd take the 8* over the HOF. You can do a search on both of them, there have been lots of discussion here.

 

[Shay37]

Date: 3/8/2006 8:27:27 AM
Author: mrssalvo
Check out this thread. Also, if you type in non-polished girdle or polished girdle a bunch of old threads will pop up they may also help you. I''d take the 8* over the HOF. You can do a search on both of them, there have been lots of discussion here.

I agree with Mrs. S. Take the 8*. It''s cheaper and probably better cut. I can''t say that it''s definitely cut better, but we have seen HOFs that did not perform that well because of cutting variations.

shay

 

[klavigne]

I had the same dilemma and decided against the HoF. I ended up with an Ideal D color VVS2 that was a no name and it was "shiner" than the three HoF''s that I was looking at. I think the whole naming a cut thing is a marketing ploy, a diamond is a diamond is a diamond. Just because someone wants to call it something doesn''t make it better. Even the AGS000 didn''t look as good as the stone I picked. Once you get into the ideal cut, color, clarity, polish they are all more or less the same with small variances.
Go with what you feel looks the best and you can''t go wrong! Good Luck!

 

[rstillin]

Date: 3/8/2006 10:34:11 AM
Author: Shay37

Date: 3/8/2006 8:27:27 AM
Author: mrssalvo
Check out this thread. Also, if you type in non-polished girdle or polished girdle a bunch of old threads will pop up they may also help you. I''d take the 8* over the HOF. You can do a search on both of them, there have been lots of discussion here.

I agree with Mrs. S. Take the 8*. It''s cheaper and probably better cut. I can''t say that it''s definitely cut better, but we have seen HOFs that did not perform that well because of cutting variations.

shay

If you have time, have Bill Bray run a Bray score on both if you really want to know which is the better cut.

 

[princessv]

Honestly, I saw some HOFs at a mall store this past weekend and was really disappointed. It was two H colored loose stones that didn't really sparkle like other HOFs I've seen and lmurden (who was with me) and I couldn't believe that they were both H colors! They were definitely showing color for an H

I would go with the 8*!

ETA: It wasn't the store lighting because I held my H Jubilee next to those stones and they still showed color!

 

[stermag]

I obviously know little on the pricing of HoF diamonds but... 16 grand for a 1 carat stone? Is that right, really?

 

[Rod]

We don''t know in what country jcdodd wrote from. Hopefully, not the US, because those prices are simply repulsive. But they do highlight the commoditization of branded stones, IMHO. Many believe more facets and a brand name mean better quality, more sparkle, more everything. As most of us PSer''s know this simply isn''t true. I don''t personally like the extra facets on many of the branded diamonds. I think they look too busy and in some lighting situations darker. But, that''s just me. It''s a stroke of genius to add some extra facets, call a stone a fancy name and command a boatload of extra $$ for it.

Give me a well cut traditionally faceted diamond anyday and my stone will always sparkle beautifully. Even my mother''s OEC, which was cut a century ago at least, is stunning and lights up the room.

 

[kevinyonker]

Prices on both diamonds seem way up on the high end. However, my expericence with a mall jewlery store selling HOF diamonds seem to back up those prices. My Girlfriend and I were looking at HOF diamonds. Most of them were in the I-J range and si1 or si2''s. After spending around 45 mins to an hour, the saleman and his manager came down to $5,500 on an I color Si1 stone weighing around .75 ctw. I ask him about an H and he immediately told me I was looking at $2,000 more. Thankfully, I had been lurking around this site for a few weeks before mall shopping. Ended up buying from GOG and my fiancee is very happy we did.

 

[NEdiamondguy]

I have seen a lot of discussion on this site about HOF v. 8Star v. ACA and I just thought I would throw in my two cents. First, a little bit of my own background...

I work for a local retail jeweler that was one of Hearts on Fire''s first ever retail partners. We have had them since 1996 when they first launched. I will not say that they are the best out there, but probably are among them. We have a new diamond brand in fact that regularly out performs them on the GemEx system. But here''s the skinny:

When you buy them or any brand, you are buying into the brand''s promise. The promise of integrity, of quality, of knowing that when you invest in the brand, you will get exactly what you pay for each and every time.

For example, look at Pepsi and Coke. Their two formulas are virtually identical. But if I offered some of you one instead of the other, some of you will become absolutely enraged swearing that you won''t drink one becuase you prefer the taste of the other. You fell for the brand!!! (Before you laugh, I actually had a customer in a restaurant I wordked in in college become enraged when I told him we had Pepsi products because Pepsi has "10 teaspoons of sugar in every can!" As opposed to what? Coke''s 9.95 teaspoons of sugar?)

Some of you would buy a Rolex because of what the brand represents. For some of you,a Rolex isn''t good enough and only a Patek or Vacheron will do. Others wont spend more than 20 bucks on a watch from Wal-Mart even though you will drop 10 grand on a ring over the internet then run to your local jeweler (the expert) and expect them to praise you for what a good buy you got.

But what ever trips your trigger, you will always, always, always...get what you pay for. No more...no less.

Peace!

 

[Rod]

Date: 3/8/2006 5:18:29 PM
Author: NEdiamondguy
I have seen a lot of discussion on this site about HOF v. 8Star v. ACA and I just thought I would throw in my two cents. First, a little bit of my own background...

I work for a local retail jeweler that was one of Hearts on Fire''s first ever retail partners. We have had them since 1996 when they first launched. I will not say that they are the best out there, but probably are among them. We have a new diamond brand in fact that regularly out performs them on the GemEx system. But here''s the skinny:

When you buy them or any brand, you are buying into the brand''s promise. The promise of integrity, of quality, of knowing that when you invest in the brand, you will get exactly what you pay for each and every time.

For example, look at Pepsi and Coke. Their two formulas are virtually identical. But if I offered some of you one instead of the other, some of you will become absolutely enraged swearing that you won''t drink one becuase you prefer the taste of the other. You fell for the brand!!! (Before you laugh, I actually had a customer in a restaurant I wordked in in college become enraged when I told him we had Pepsi products because Pepsi has ''10 teaspoons of sugar in every can!'' As opposed to what? Coke''s 9.95 teaspoons of sugar?)

Some of you would buy a Rolex because of what the brand represents. For some of you,a Rolex isn''t good enough and only a Patek or Vacheron will do. Others wont spend more than 20 bucks on a watch from Wal-Mart even though you will drop 10 grand on a ring over the internet then run to your local jeweler (the expert) and expect them to praise you for what a good buy you got.

But what ever trips your trigger, you will always, always, always...get what you pay for. No more...no less.

Peace!

Not sure exactly what your point is, but can''t say I fully agree with you. And I purchased my pet rock from a local high quality jeweler, instead of buying on-line.

But your claim that you always always always get what you pay for, no more or no less, just doesn''t ring true. Since making my purchase, I have recognized through PS, that without any doubt, someone can get more for less. One should become educated. And while I like my jeweler who made my ring, I will likely buy on-line the next time I''m in the market for anything diamond.

Having said that, I do agree with your comment that when you buy a branded diamond you are buying into the promise of integrity. And for many, that is indeed a good thing, albeit an overpriced good thing.

 

[WinkHPD]

There is a definite difference in appearance between the HoF and the EightStar. The Eightstar will have broader more definite patterns of on/off flash and contrast, where the HoF will have smaller and more jumbled flashes. The flashes of dispersion will also tend to be bigger on the EightStar. The frosted girdles are done for a reason on the EightStar, and are not a quality issue. Those reasons include: bruting usually makes a rounder stone than faceting, bruting tends to show more color, so if an EightStar has a higher color grade it is definitely that color grade not one that looks a little better because it was polished, and a couple of techical reasons to do with the cutting that I do not remember.

Other cutters prefer to polish their diamond''s girdles, and they have their reasons too. Perhaps one of the cutters can come and share them with us, there are advantages to both.

The point is you were fortunate enough to see both stones side by side and to decide which one you liked better. You should not let your mind now start trying to deceive your eyes. You have purchased a diamond that is acknowledged even by their competitors to be a magnificent diamond. It was clearly the best for you in a comparrison test. Others here have made the same comparrison and decided that they liked the H&A look better than the EightStar look, and for them that was the best. I do not think that the trade recognizes any one brand as "the best" simply because there are so many different opinions about what is and is not "the best". There are several branded stones that are acknowledged to be among the best, and EightStar and HoF are certainly two of those brands. (By the way, if you like EightStar in normal light, wait until you are dining with her in a low light or candle light atmosphere. People will walk accross the room to ask to see her diamond.

Wink

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 3/8/2006 5:59:01 PM
Author: Wink
There is a definite difference in appearance between the HoF and the EightStar. The Eightstar will have broader more definite patterns of on/off flash and contrast, where the HoF will have smaller and more jumbled flashes. The flashes of dispersion will also tend to be bigger on the EightStar. The frosted girdles are done for a reason on the EightStar, and are not a quality issue. Those reasons include: bruting usually makes a rounder stone than faceting, bruting tends to show more color, so if an EightStar has a higher color grade it is definitely that color grade not one that looks a little better because it was polished, and a couple of techical reasons to do with the cutting that I do not remember.

Other cutters prefer to polish their diamond's girdles, and they have their reasons too. Perhaps one of the cutters can come and share them with us, there are advantages to both.Wink

I'm not a cutter, but I dine with one regularly.

An unfaceted, or bruted girdle is one where the diamond's girdle is unpolished and has a frosted appearance. Some cutters believe polishing the girdle may cause color to be reflected back inside, so unfaceted girdles are common in J or K color grades and down, and in small goods, .25 and lower. In near-colorless diamonds it's not the concern that it is with slightly colored and below. However, for those who make it common practice, the idea of leaving the girdle frosted is with the intent of improving face-up color appearance.

A faceted girdle is one where the brillianteer polished facets into the diamond's girdle.

A polished girdle on a diamond is see-through or clear. A polished girdle is a finishing touch but is not critical. One situation where polish is desirable is when the diamond is a fish-eye, where polishing will reduce the effect of the girdle's reflection in the table.

New machines have been developed that are putting a fine finish on girdles. These diamond girdles are more than bruted, but less than polished. These are becoming more common (and confusing the occasional appraiser who is unfamiliar with the technology). We call these finely finished: It is not faceted, not completely polished, nor does it remain bruted. It is in a warm and cozy place somewhere in-between.

 

[stermag]

Others wont spend more than 20 bucks on a watch from Wal-Mart even though you will drop 10 grand on a ring over the internet then run to your local jeweler (the expert) and expect them to praise you for what a good buy you got.

Tsk tsk tsk. Too many inaccurate generalizations will detract from even the most valid of points.

Owning a 10,000-dollar internet ring makes me no more likely to own a cheap watch from Wal-Mart. Being a local jeweler makes it no more likely that you''re an expert.

 

[Stephan]

Date: 3/8/2006 5:59:01 PM
Author: Wink
By the way, if you like EightStar in normal light, wait until you are dining with her in a low light or candle light atmosphere. People will walk accross the room to ask to see her diamond.


Wink

I have the same problem with my new line ACA...

 

[seeker78]

I think you made the better choice. I bought my fiance a 3/4 carat e color vs clarity eightstar and it is the most amazing stone I have ever seen! I also saw the hearts on fire side by side, and chose the eightstar. I believe an eightstar is cut to more exacting standards than other superideals out there, but thats just my opinion. I will say that what Wink said about it being crazy in low light is almost an understatement. I''ve never seen anything like it, and people almost always see it from a distance and comment on it. You saw it under the firescope, it''s awesome!

 

[jcdodd]

Everyone thanks a bunch for the help! I think my decision has been made to keep the Eightstar.

all i need to do now is find a setting!

PS I emailed the Eightstar owner, Richard von Sternberg, about the girlde, and his feedback was interesting:

Quote from the email:

"THERE ARE THREE REASONS THAT WE DO NOT POLISH GIRDLES -- EXCEPT WHEN WE
RECEIVE A SPECIFIC REQUEST TO DO SO.
1. WHEN WE ARE APPLYING THE PAVILION TO OUR DIAMONDS, WE USE A MARK PUT ON
THE GIRDLE AFTER THE GIRDLING PROCESS TO WHICH ALL LOWER FACETS MUST
TERMINATE. IN OTHER WORDS, THE MARK ON THE GIRDLE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT
GUIDELINE FOR GETTING ALL THE FACETS RIGHT. IF WE POLISH THE GIRDLE, THE
LINE WILL NOT STAY ON; THE LINE JUMPS OFF UPON THE APPLICATION OF THE FIRST
FACET ON THE BOTTOM. THE LINE STAYS PERFECTLY WITH A SATEEN FINISHED GIRDLE
THE WAY I LEARNED AFTER MANY YEARS TO MAKE THEM.
2. THERE ARE NO GEM LABS ON OUR PLANET THAT FAULT A DIAMOND FOR NOT
POLISHING THE GIRDLE. IN FACT, MANY CUTTERS UNSCRUPULOUSLY POLISH THE
GIRLDE IN ORDER TO ARTIFICIALLY RAISE THE COLOR. WE DO NOTHING ARTIFICIAL
OR USE TRICKS OF ANY KIND.
3. IT IS A GIFT TO GEMOLOGISTS EVERYWHERE THAT WE DO NOT POLISH OUR GIRDLES
BECAUSE NO OTHER SUBSTANCE THAN DIAMOND HAS THE LOOK OF THE FROSTED GIRDLE
OF DIAMOND. IF YOU POLISH THE DIAMOND, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SIMPLY "SIGHT
IDENTIFY" THE STONE AS DIAMOND."

#3 is rather interesting if you ask me!

 

[seeker78]

I don''t know if you already have a setting designer in mind, but I would SERIOUSLY reccommend checking out Mark Morrell. His settings are AMAZING, and he will work closely with you to design exactly what you want. I believe he has set quite a few eightstars as well. I wish I had found his work before I bought the setting for my fiance. Oh well... Check out his website.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/8/2006 8:24:03 PM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 3/8/2006 5:59:01 PM
Author: Wink
By the way, if you like EightStar in normal light, wait until you are dining with her in a low light or candle light atmosphere. People will walk accross the room to ask to see her diamond.


Wink

I have the same problem with my new line ACA...

Yes, you should as they are incredibly similar stones. I believe that there are a few minor differences to the length of the lower girdles etc, but I would leave that for John Quixote or Brian the cutter to answer. Both have painted upper girdle facets to improve light return that little extra smidgeon more than a standard H&A.

Wink

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/9/2006 11:03:02 AM
Author: jcdodd

Everyone thanks a bunch for the help! I think my decision has been made to keep the Eightstar.

all i need to do now is find a setting!

PS I emailed the Eightstar owner, Richard von Sternberg, about the girlde, and his feedback was interesting:

Quote from the email:

''THERE ARE THREE REASONS THAT WE DO NOT POLISH GIRDLES -- EXCEPT WHEN WE
RECEIVE A SPECIFIC REQUEST TO DO SO.


2. THERE ARE NO GEM LABS ON OUR PLANET THAT FAULT A DIAMOND FOR NOT
POLISHING THE GIRDLE. IN FACT, MANY CUTTERS UNSCRUPULOUSLY POLISH THE
GIRLDE IN ORDER TO ARTIFICIALLY RAISE THE COLOR. WE DO NOTHING ARTIFICIAL
OR USE TRICKS OF ANY KIND.

i heard is teh other way around. some cutter will only leave the girdle unfinish on J color and above stones.they say the frosted girdle will hide the warm color better but,your stone is an F color.

i guess all 8* comes with a frosted girdle.

i have only seen a few 8* and i never notice that.

 

[sylvesterii]

Date: 3/8/2006 5:59:01 PM
Author: Wink
(By the way, if you like EightStar in normal light, wait until you are dining with her in a low light or candle light atmosphere. People will walk accross the room to ask to see her diamond.

Wink

Boy, can I vouch for this. If she will freak out about people randomly grabbing her hand in restaurants, you may want to return the EightStar! (just kidding about returning it, but it WILL happen, so be ready.)