EGL vs. GIA/AGS purchase experiences needed!

[jkbutler44]

This subject has probably been discussed on this site ad nauseum, but I am noticing a distinct difference in EGL versus GIA and AGS certified diamond prices. As a new shopper I would like input, advice, experiences, etc., on purchases of EGL (USA or otherwise) diamonds. I''d love to obtain a price advantage but not if the stone gets independently appraised at significantly less than what the cert says.

Also, for those who use the Holloway Cut Advisor when doing online shopping, is there a way to get the crown and pavillion angles/degrees for GIA certs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[recran]

Hi! I was originally looking for an EGL stone for the $$ saving factor. However... I realized that I want to get a cool stone now and upgrade later, so... I''m getting a GIA stone from WhiteFlash. They''ll let you count a GIA/AGS stone for an upgrade, but not an EGL. I have seen a lot of discussion on the boards about the different agencies, so I''m sure the experts will chime in soon.

 

[belle]

hey caveat emptor

welcome to ps!

perhaps you can purchase the stone contingent on the appraisal. depending on who you are working with, i think it is a reasonable option. as far as using the hca, you would have to find someone willing to run a sarin on the diamond to get the crown/pavilion angles.

 

[Shay37]

Date: 11/18/2005 4:07:17 PM
Author:caveat_emptor
This subject has probably been discussed on this site ad nauseum, but I am noticing a distinct difference in EGL versus GIA and AGS certified diamond prices. As a new shopper I would like input, advice, experiences, etc., on purchases of EGL (USA or otherwise) diamonds. I''d love to obtain a price advantage but not if the stone gets independently appraised at significantly less than what the cert says.

Also, for those who use the Holloway Cut Advisor when doing online shopping, is there a way to get the crown and pavillion angles/degrees for GIA certs?

Thanks in advance!

If you want to make sure, have your purchase contingent upon it appraising for what the cert says by an independent appraiser. That''s the only way I would consider it. You must also keep in mind that, as recran mentioned, a lot of online vendors will not take an EGL for tradeup.

If you want crown and pav. angles, have the vendor run a sarin scan on the stone. That''s the only way to get those numbers if it''s a GIA document.

shay

 

[Shay37]

Oh, too funny, Belle. I must have been posting at the same time as you. LMAO.

shay

 

[belle]

Date: 11/18/2005 4:40:54 PM
Author: Shay37
Oh, too funny, Belle. I must have been posting at the same time as you. LMAO.

shay

lol...i''ll race ya to the next one!

 

[jkbutler44]

All,

thanks very much for the info. I had telephone conversations with the owners of a couple online shops about EGL certs as well. I am coming to the conclusion that, if you buy EGL you shop for a stone one grade better in color and clarity to be safe. The Pricescope survey was very helpful and corroborated this somewhat (assuming you buy EGL USA, which i have only found sporadically).

Thanks also for the warning on returns. I was spending time at diamondsonweb.com and they had a bunch of EGLs in my range (1.5 H VS2 ideal or excellent). Some EGLs i was interested in scored well on the cut advisor, but i''m spooked by the EGL cert now. I was told they have a 30 day return policy but i didn''t ask if it applied to EGLs as well.

If you don''t mind, what are your thoughts on the following item (from a different vendor):

EGL certified 1.52 VS2 G Ideal H&A, 61.6 depth and 58 table, no culet or flourescence, excellent polish and symmetry. I cannot yet obtain the cert. or idealscope on it. it''s going for about $8500. Sounds great but scores only 2.6 on cut advisor. i''ve seen other ideal H&A stones rate similar.

it looks good on paper to me but do you think this is too good to be true? Like others i''m a newcomer (though a bit of a nerd) but want to avoid getting taken advantage of on one of the biggest purchases one can make. Thanks!!!

 

[Shay37]

Hard to say without the angles. Not enough info for me to make an informed opinion on it. I will ask though, what is your main priority? Which C is the most important to you? If you can answer that question for me, I think we can all help you with that.

shay

 

[jkbutler44]

shay,

thanks for helping! your question is the central one: my GF thinks cut and color are best and has no opinion on cut. I think, however, that she''s under the impression that color is the determiner of scintillation, brilliance and fire. I have been learning on places like PS that cut is more important for performance, so i''ve been trying to get highest cut, followed closely by carat weight and color (i.e. i''d sacrifice size and color a little for ideal cut). However, i need to keep in mind that i''m not buying a diamond that I love, it''s what she loves.

i would love to know from folks who used the cut advisor whether they used the advisor and got a rating over 2 still got an ideal stone and it was gorgeous (though i think i''m asking too much. . .)

 

[jkbutler44]

Oops, by the way, the crown and pavillian percentages (no angles available) are 13.7 and 43.9 respectively.

 

[belle]

Date: 11/18/2005 6:14:25 PM
Author: caveat_emptor
shay,

thanks for helping! your question is the central one: my GF thinks cut and color are best and has no opinion on cut. I think, however, that she''s under the impression that color is the determiner of scintillation, brilliance and fire. I have been learning on places like PS that cut is more important for performance, so i''ve been trying to get highest cut, followed closely by carat weight and color (i.e. i''d sacrifice size and color a little for ideal cut). However, i need to keep in mind that i''m not buying a diamond that I love, it''s what she loves.

i would love to know from folks who used the cut advisor whether they used the advisor and got a rating over 2 still got an ideal stone and it was gorgeous (though i think i''m asking too much. . .)

cv,
getting a stone that rates over 2 on the hca does not automatically make it a dog. when buying ''blind'' most people want to do all they can to try and ensure they get a great stone. having a stone with proven proportions and an hca score around 1 will generally mean you are getting a well rounded stone. it is the cut of the stone that determines performance, not color or clarity.

 

[Shay37]

Well, I think G is a nice safe bet. It''s not so low that anyone would see color in a well cut stone. It is not so high to kill the wallet. If you work with a good vendor, you can find some really great eye clean SI1s. If you are going for a larger stone and you are having it drop shipped without a vendor looking it over first, then VS2 might be safer to ensure you can''t see an inclusion.

Now, repeat after me and Belle, CUT CUT CUT CUT.

This is where you will find money well spent. I have an ACA superideal hearts and arrows. It is beyond gorgeous. The first thing that everyone says (and I mean everyone) is OMG, that thing is so sparkley. It looks like it''s got a spotlight in it. Are you trying to blind me? My diamond is a .747 ct diamond that you can see in my avatar. it is in a pushup bra for diamonds. (halo setting)

It obviously looks larger than it is because of the setting. My Auntie saw it this weekend from across the room and said, Is that new? What is that 2 carats?

I liked that question very much.

If you would like, give us a budget, and we will help you find the best of the 4Cs to fit it.

shay

 

[jkbutler44]

Shay and Belle,

Thanks very much for the help! If you''re interested in helping a guy out, my budget would be in the 8-9k range, but if i need to increase a little bit i can. I was hoping for the following (which may be unattainable with my budget): 1.5 VS2 H ideal (H&A, ex/ex a plus but not deal breaker) performing under 2 on the cut advisor. I''m not sophisticated enough to have selected specific table, depth and crown/pavillion angles. If i need to go to SI1 i''m willing so long as cut is great.

Also if i am too hung up on the cut advisor let me know. there''s something about it that i think really tells me how a diamond will perform.

By the way, i am not sure how the various vendors use the term ideal. I understand that AGS means it''s rated 0, GIA means it''s excellent, and on the EGL certs, they say "excellent ideal cut".

 

[Shay37]

Here''s one I found one color lower and one clarity higher. It''s right on the money 1.5, but I think we can find others. I will link more as I find them.

link

shay

 

[Shay37]

Okay, I got another one. Keep in mind that Whiteflash offers a PS discount. So if I link something that seems more, it''s because I found it on the search by cut which factors in the PS discount and puts it in your ball park.

link this one scored a 1.8 on the HCA and if it''s eye clean, could be quite the bargain.

shay

 

[Shay37]

Okay, I really like this one. It has a great IS and it scores a 1 on the HCA. It is 9847 with your PS discount. By the way, I searched a little above and below 1.5 carats and up or down one color grade. I searched G to I. I don''t know that you can get into a G 1.5 with 9ish as your budget. You might have to stretch more than a grand. For an H, it seems VS2 is out with that as top budget. Some SI1 as well are out. But you can drop to I and get the VS2. The link I''m giving is now going to show you that. it looks to be a charmer.

link

I''m sorry for the separate links and posts, but I still don''t know how to consolidate.

shay

 

[fisiogrl]

I''m not seeing anything available right now with your ''dream'' list for under $9000. If you drop your colour to J, then a couple come up - I don''t think that would be a good idea though since your GF values colour quite highly.

On the other hand there are some stones out there if you drop carat below 1.3. Go to the ''search by cut'' section and play with your parameters - something will have to be sacrificed, I''m afraid. Even if you drop to SI2 (being sure to be eyeclean!), it seems to be tight....

Good luck!

 

[fisiogrl]

HAHA!

Seems like Shay has figured that the thing to be sacrificed is your budget! Wonder what you can come up with.....work some overtime?

(It is soooo easy to go over budget, ''personal experience'' - we''ll see what you decide...)

 

[jkbutler44]

Shay and Fisiogrl,

Thanks for the input. I am grateful to have found this site. I know my parameters are probably out of reach with the budget i set for myself. I am trying to exercise fiscal discipline (have to afford a wedding as well!) But the 1.53 VS2 I is really calling to me...

Believe me, i''m doing everything including overtime, collecting bottles and mowing lawns for this.

When i make the purchase i''ll share with you all as you have shared much with me. Now for a few more lawns . . .

 

[Shay37]

Also, that stone (I VS2) says very thin to thick on the girdle. The sarin and the GIA report both say very thin to thin. Just an FYI. I think it''s a beautiful stone. If I had the money, and I wanted a 1.5, I would definitely be getting that one. I don''t know if I could go to a J, but I''ve had an I and it was gorgeous.

shay

 

[jkbutler44]

I don''t know if anyone is following this string anymore but I found the following (am probably going to do a new post):

1.50 EGL F SI1
Depth 60.7
Table 57
Crown % 13.5
Pavillion% 43.1
Medium Girdle
Excellent polish/symmetry
no culet
no luminescence
"ideal cut Hearts and Arrows"
HCA 1.0

$7300

Pluses: size, color HCA, cut
Minus: EGL cert, SI1 but seller says it''s eye clean.

Knowing what i know of EGL now, i worry, but i figure the most they are off is one grade, so a G SI2 is not bad for the price. Only concern is if there''s a problem with the diamond (i.e. crack, chip, etc) otherwise i cannot explain the price.

 

[belle]

of course we''re still following cv!

can you get crown/pavilion angles for the stone? angles are much more accurate.

 

[jkbutler44]

thanks belle, i''ve asked for the angles. when i get them i''ll let you know.

happy thanksgiving to all!