EGL (USA) vs GIA... is there a difference?

[mishamish]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this site so i apologize if i ask questions previously answered.. But, i still haven''t seen a concrete answer in regards to the difference between GIA and EGL-USA. I know that GIA is the most popular rating method when it comes to diamonds, but I’ve read that EGL - US is very reputable as well. If they are similar, why is there such parity in prices at various online jewelers?

Abazia.com is one example of a site where there are major differences in price between stones with all identical characteristics except for their certification. Any insight into the topic would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks..

 

[dockman3]

Hi there. There is definitely a difference between GIA and EGL. While EGL-USA is the best of the EGL labs, it is still a softer lab than GIA. For instance, a diamond graded EGL G VS2 might be graded by GIA as I SI1. This is just an example, but generally speaking, GIA will be one or two color grades lower and one clarity grade lower as well. This is the cause of the price difference. A good way to know what an EGL diamond would grade as a GIA is to find a GIA stone that is the same price as the EGL and those will be the specs of the GIA stone.

The other grading lab that is as highly regarded is AGS. If you buy a diamond, be sure it has either a GIA or AGS report to be the safest possible. These are the two strictest labs.

 

[trillionaire]

hi Misha!

You might find this helpful.

That should be a helpful "general" reference for the difference between AGS, GIA and EGL (I think USA).

The other advice that you will hear a lot here is "buy the stone, not the paper." An EGL cert doesn't mean it's a bad stone, esp if you can get pics and analysis done. If you can see the stones in person, all the better. Buy what speaks to you. Sight unseen, AGS and GIA are the "safest bets".

An excerpt from the conclusions:
Myth and Facts

* “Diamonds graded by GIA-GTL have better resale liquidity”. Fact
* "GIA is the strictest laboratory in the world" – Myth. According to this survey 8 out of 16 diamonds were graded more strictly by AGS. EGL tended to grade clarity more strictly.
* "AGS is very strict" – A fact overall, but AGSL color grades can be softer than GIA-GTL.
* "EGL certificates are not worth the paper they are printed on" – Myth. Although in 12 cases out of 17 EGL graded color softer, EGL clarity grading was as strict or stricter as GIA.
* "GIA has the strongest international diamond brand" - Fact.
* "It is safer to buy a GIA graded diamond" - Myth. Any diamond grading report is an opinion, not a guarantee.
* "GIA invented the grading standards and independent reports"- Fact.
* "GIA or AGS reports guarantee grading accuracy" – Myth. This survey shows that both labs can grade either softer or more strictly and this affects a diamonds price.
* "Consumers should consider an appraisal by a qualified and independent gemologist" – Fact. This can ensure a diamond meets a consumers criteria and to avoid possible switching errors (two occurred in this survey).
* "Diamonds with GIA reports trade for higher prices". Myth - AGSL diamonds often trade for more.
* "GIA has trained more gemologists world-wide than all the other schools combined" - Fact.
* "Excellent / Excellent GIA graded diamonds are more beautiful" – Myth. An Ex / Ex diamond can have poor proportions; symmetry and polish have less effect on diamond beauty than proportions.
* "GIA-GTL charges more than other labs" – Fact. This adds to the cost.
* "GIA-GTL takes longer to grade a diamond than other labs". Fact - This adds to the cost.
* "GIA-GTL provides the least useful cut grading information of any major lab" - Fact
* "You can get ripped off buying an EGL USA graded diamond" - Myth. Even if you buy a one higher color EGL graded diamond than you require, GIA-GTL may grade it a color grade lower and the same clarity, but you will probably pay less.




Good luck!

 

[Regular Guy]

Trillionairre...what is your list an excerpt from?

Date: 8/7/2008 10:21:36 PM
Author: trillionaire

* ''GIA-GTL provides the least useful cut grading information of any major lab'' - Fact

I''ve seen the types of classification described from EGL here many times, including "tolkowski," and maybe "ideal plus," and never have I seen what those proportions sets, or other criteria, those descriptors apply to. At least with GIA, for the most part, you can backwards analyze and understand why they would apply whatever grade.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/7/2008 9:07:24 PM
Author:mishamish

Hello everyone, I’m new to this site so i apologize if i ask questions previously answered.. But, i still haven''t seen a concrete answer in regards to the difference between GIA and EGL-USA. I know that GIA is the most popular rating method when it comes to diamonds, but I’ve read that EGL - US is very reputable as well. If they are similar, why is there such parity in prices at various online jewelers?

Abazia.com is one example of a site where there are major differences in price between stones with all identical characteristics except for their certification. Any insight into the topic would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks..

We jewelers pay more for GIA and AGS rated stones because we know if the diamond could have gotten the grade from GIa or AGS it would have been sent there.

You will read that EGL USA is very reputable, but normally from people who are selling them, not from unbiased observers. We pay less for these stones because when we get them in house and look at them that is what they are worth.

Wink

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 8/7/2008 10:42:49 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Trillionairre...what is your list an excerpt from?

Date: 8/7/2008 10:21:36 PM
Author: trillionaire

* ''GIA-GTL provides the least useful cut grading information of any major lab'' - Fact

I''ve seen the types of classification described from EGL here many times, including ''tolkowski,'' and maybe ''ideal plus,'' and never have I seen what those proportions sets, or other criteria, those descriptors apply to. At least with GIA, for the most part, you can backwards analyze and understand why they would apply whatever grade.

There are many flavors of "Ideal cuts" on EGL reports that I''ve seen including the ones you''ve mentioned. You''re correct...we don''t really know what parameters are used to define each particular "ideal." No standardization and the term "ideal" is used liberally. Just my opinion.


www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[mishamish]

Great info, thanks everyone!!


One follow up question..


If i find two virtually identical stones except that one is EGL - US and the other is GIA, how much lower in price (as a %) should i expect the EGL stone to be in order to justify purchasing it over the GIA? I understand that there isn''t a specific figure here, but a ballpark rule of thumb would help.. thanks

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 8/7/2008 10:42:49 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Trillionairre...what is your list an excerpt from?

Date: 8/7/2008 10:21:36 PM

Author: trillionaire


* ''GIA-GTL provides the least useful cut grading information of any major lab'' - Fact

I''ve seen the types of classification described from EGL here many times, including ''tolkowski,'' and maybe ''ideal plus,'' and never have I seen what those proportions sets, or other criteria, those descriptors apply to. At least with GIA, for the most part, you can backwards analyze and understand why they would apply whatever grade.

http://grading.pricescope.com/

A very small scale sample report done here on PS. The list was taken from the conclusions section, and are not my words or thoughts, but I did think it would be "generally" helpful to understand the differences between labs. My first post included the link to the full report as well

 

[helios_haze]

I can't speculate on the price differential but here is validation that the market prices out the "TRUE" specs of the diamond. So, if you do your homework and use reputable PS vendors, pick either stone and you should be fine! I used Whiteflash, btw and they are great!

I was considering 2 stones:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1133290.htm 12,354 ... lowest PS price on Aug 7, 2008 Stone G (GIA)
http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1034085.htm 12,432 ... lowest PS price on Aug 7, 2008 Stone E (EGL-USA)

Stone G Specs
1.88ct I SI1
HCA 0.7
Cut: VG, Polish: Ex, Symmetry: VG

Stone E Specs
1.88ct H VS2
HCA 0.4
Cut: Ideal Plus (whatever that means!!
Polish: Ex, Symmetry: Ex
I had WF bring Stone E in and true-grade it. An expert, the best at WF, gave Stone E a GIA equivalent I SI1.

I am going with the EGL because we have seen the stone and the better specs on the cert will help my ego

. I highly recommend physically viewing EGLs ... some of them are very pretty and they price right. Either way you are NOT going to get a free lunch in all probability!

 

[mishamish]

Date: 8/8/2008 12:33:39 PM
Author: helios_haze
I can''t speculate on the price differential but here is validation that the market prices out the ''TRUE'' specs of the diamond. So, if you do your homework and use reputable PS vendors, pick either stone and you should be fine! I used Whiteflash, btw and they are great!

I was considering 2 stones:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1133290.htm 12,354 ... lowest PS price on Aug 7, 2008 Stone G (GIA)
http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-1034085.htm 12,432 ... lowest PS price on Aug 7, 2008 Stone E (EGL-USA)

Stone G Specs
1.88ct I SI1
HCA 0.7
Cut: VG, Polish: Ex, Symmetry: VG

Stone E Specs
1.88ct H VS2
HCA 0.4
Cut: Ideal Plus (whatever that means!!
Polish: Ex, Symmetry: Ex
I had WF bring Stone E in and true-grade it. An expert, the best at WF, gave Stone E a GIA equivalent I SI1.

I am going with the EGL because we have seen the stone and the better specs on the cert will help my ego

. I highly recommend physically viewing EGLs ... some of them are very pretty and they price right. Either way you are NOT going to get a free lunch in all probability!

Thanks for the info helios_haze, it was definitely helpful..

How did you view your stone, did WF send you a picture or video? Or did you actually go to a physical location.

I''m worried that since I’m more than likely purchasing online, i won''t have the ability to judge the stone myself and will have to trust what the online vendor is telling me..

 

[helios_haze]

I too am doing an online purchase. WF sent me images.
I had previously seen the stone at another location. These diamonds do a lot of traveling!

If you have time on your hands, some vendors will send the stone to an independent appraiser in your area and you just have to cover shipping and appraisal costs if you do not buy.

 

[vespergirl]

I have an EGL H&A that I love. Youa re right that you have to see the stone in person to see if it''s any good. At my local jeweler, when I compared it to other AGS, GIA & EGL stones, there were some GIA & EGL stones that were not pretty, had no H&A pattern. When I looked through the Idealscope at my EGL, I knew that I found the one. The only stones that I saw that were consistently excellent were the AGS. I have to say that I think that the reputation for GIA is overblown - there have been many people on Pricescope that have had their GIA stones come back appraised differently than the cert, so it''s not just EGL that can have softer standards from time to time.