EGL Gotten Any Better?

[kato24]

I am considering a 1.81 Round Brilliant EGL international diamond. It is H Color, SI1 clarity, ex polish, ex symmetry, Flr-none, Hearts & Arrows. The proportions are Table Width 56%, Depth 62%, crown 16%, pavillion 42%. It is eye clean for sure, and sparkles nicely. I can see the scratches under the lense. Price $13,250 at a jeweler. To me it looks good, but the hate towards EGL and how off they are is really scaring me. Most of the posts I've seen are old posts though, so my question is has EGL been getting any better based on the negative online criticism?

 

[Rockdiamond]

NOOOOOO NOOOOO NOOOOO
The situation has not changed one iota.

it's not a matter of hate, but whoever is offering you this diamond should explain why the price is so much lower than GIA.
And the only correct answer is, it's not graded like GIA would.
EGL H can equal GIA M.
I've seen it myself.
Recently.

 

[Andelain]

The cut is poor on that stone. Run, Forrest, run!

 

[kato24]

Thanks. What should the cut be? I thought those numbers were within the ranges?

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

... has EGL been getting any better based on the negative online criticism?

Actually, EGL has no reason to get "better." They're one of the most-used labs in the world as-is behind GIA. This success is based in large part on the softer standards we all acknowledge. Here's why. Let's say a diamond is unmovable with a GIA report saying 1.00 L I1. The seller can find a wider buying audience if he gets it papered as EGL 1.00 J SI2. He knows it will be lower at GIA. He will even tell buyers that it would be lower at GIA. But when the seller can offer it for (example) $ 3,500 a buyer who is happy with the look in-person will be more satisfied by what the EGL paper "says" - even when fully informed that the report is factually softer.

the hate towards EGL and how off they are is really scaring me.

I don't perceive hate here. What I perceive, and support, are the vocal statements about EGL's softness and (especially) inconsistency. Compared to GIA and AGSL, both strict and consistent, this makes any potential EGL buy a challenging prospect online. It's not hate. The consumer advisors here simply cannot decisively comment on color/clarity graded by EGL. I concur.

At some point a trusted expert is needed to say "EGL graded this XYZ. By the strictest standards it would be ABC." - It's probably also good to note that, in the long term, trying to move the diamond (resale, etc.) will be more viable with a GIA report.

This is why I don't see hate, only prudent caution from consumers here about the true nature of EGL's softer and less consistent model.

 

[Gypsy]

No they are not better.

And you do not have enough information to buy that diamond safely.
With EGL you need: Sarin of the stone. And you need an idealscope. And you need an independent appraisal against GIA Master color stones. And you need the appraiser to look at the clarity.

So basically, you have none of that.

Where are you located, we can find you a good appraiser.

 

[HappyNewLife]

With a 4.5 on the HCA calculator (https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca), I wouldn't even bother continuing. Couple that with it being EGL, and I'd run far, far away.

Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Good
Spread or diameter for weight: Very Good
Total Visual Performance: 4.5 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad value: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[arkieb1]

No they are not "getting better."

EGL International stones are graded in places like Israel, India, Asia and they are very loosely graded compared to GIA. They are typically 4 to 5 grades incorrect in colour (can be 2 or 3 if you are lucky and up to 8 if you are exceedingly unlucky) and usually around 2 to 3 in clarity.

So what this means is your 1.81 H SI1 with ex specs and hearts and arrows, is possibly by GIA standards a 1.81 K/L/M colour and a possibly a I1 or lower in clarity. As the others have explained it is an average (not an excellent) cut.

$13 250.00 is a lot of money to spend on something where you don't know exactly what you are getting and generally if we compare apples to apples you can probably find a GIA graded 1.81 carat L/M coloured stone that is an SI2 or an I1 for less than that price. So NO you are not getting a good deal.

 

[CharmyPoo]

We can't lump all of EGL together.

EGL-International appears to be far softer than EGL-USA which is more consistent with GIA grading.

 

[Rockdiamond]

While I agree that some EgLreports are better than other EGL reports, trying to order them it's kind of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. No matter what you do that ship is going down

 

[Andelain]

While I agree that some EgLreports are better than other EGL reports, trying to order them it's kind of like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. No matter what you do that ship is going down

 

[WinkHPD]

EGL Gotten any better?

Hell frozen over?

Nope. Not yet...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I hope you've gotten the message that you should not buy that diamond at this point. But here are some comps for you.

1.8 H SI1 AGS or GIA graded will run around $17k

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-309068

Your BEST case scenario is that the diamond would actually be J SI1 (BUT IT IS LIKELY LOWER!!!)....these run around $11,500 to $12,300 (excellent cut):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-321591

So you see, that diamond is way overpriced and that is why it is a scam. If you are comparing to a GIA or AGS H SI1, yes, the price seems good. But if you compare it to what is actually is, you are OVERPAYING!!!!!

It probably is more like J-K-L SI2, and J SI2's run around $10-11k, so K and L will be even lower than $10k.

 

[RandG]

We can't lump all of EGL together.

EGL-International appears to be far softer than EGL-USA which is more consistent with GIA grading.

I agree with this statement. I have had good recent experience with NY. My only caveat is that only a seasoned buyer can rely on an EGL cert, exclusively.