Dream house''s property line off by FEET! ARGH!!

[firebirdgold]

So one day left to when I sign off on the inspection and now I find out that the property line is off by not inches but FEET! The whole freaking length of the property! There''s a city owned piece of property about .70 acres to the east that''s undeveloped left over from the creation of a road. I was worried that they owners had appropriated some of it for their lovely yard and it turns out I was right!
We''re getting continuance on signing off on the inspection until we get a survey but I just don''t know what to do! Some of the brick patio off of the kitchen. Most of the side yard is probably not on the property, the nice plantings and walkway and even some of the lawn! ARGH!!
Do we try to buy it from the city? Do we ignore it and hope the city never sells or develops the land? Do we look for another house?
ARGH ARGH.
The realtor asked me what I was thinking and I said I felt like cursing!


I can''t seem to link pics right now so here is the link to my previous thread with pics.


ARGH

 

[Harriet]

How long have the owners been using the land? What state are you in?

 

[strmrdr]

ask your attorney what too do.

 

[Harriet]

Yes, check on the "adverse possession" laws in your state. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they apply to public property.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/16/2007 8:02:15 PM
Author: Harriet
Yes, check on the ''adverse possession'' laws in your state. Unfortunately, I''m not sure they apply to public property.

they don''t in IL. but no clue elsewhere.....

 

[Harriet]

I''m afraid they might not apply in any state as a matter of public policy

 

[Dee*Jay]

Maybe you can get a permanent easement.

 

[Harriet]

That''s what I''m thinking. DeeJay, are you in real estate?

 

[Dee*Jay]

Indeed I am. (Not to mention I spent three absolutely miserable semesters in law school before I decided that the legal life was not for me, LOL, but I do love YOU and all of my lawyer friends, so no disrespect meant! I think my property law class was the absolute worst experience of my life, with legal writing playing a very close second... )

 

[Harriet]

You made it to the halfway point! Law school was absolutely awful -- for me, Torts was the worst subject. Ugh. Darn, I''d love to pick your brain about real estate, but don''t want to threadjack. I''ll resuscitate my rental conversion post. See you there?

 

[neatfreak]

I don't know if this would qualify for a prescriptive easement, or even if a prescriptive easement applies to public land. The fact that it's public land complicates things. But basically, in Oregon (that's where you are right?) if you can claim that the land has been used for a specified purpose for the past 10 years you can continue doing so. But it could involve a court battle and I don't know if it applies in this situation OR for public land at all.

Worth a try...

ETA: The Orgeon code this pertains to is §12.050. Even if this were to apply, the city would just have to condemn the property in the future to regain the use of it unfortunately, so it might not be a permanent solution because it's public land.

 

[firebirdgold]

Yes, we''re talking about oregon. From a brief web search, I''m not sure that simply using it as part of a garden and patio counts. And the burden of proof seems pretty high.
I don''t really know how likely it is that the city will want to do something with that property. It''s been sitting about since the late 70''s and most of it is on a pretty decent slope. They''ve used the flat bit on the bottom as a staging area for local road construction, apparently. The other flat bit is... well the dream house''s side yard and garden.

We could buy the adjoining property from the city but I''m worried the price of the land wouldn''t be matched by a rise in value of the house. We could buy the house but not the property and just take the risk and hope that nothing happens to the empty lot and that it doesn''t come back and bite us when we try to sell the place later. Or we could just walk away and hope another dream house comes on the market in biking distance. ...
**goes and hits her head on the wall**

 

[fire&ice]

Wow, hate to be a bummer - I wouldn''t take this lightly. Are you getting a mortgage for the property? Do you already have Title insurance? I second the consult your real estate attorney advise. This could affect your mortgage. Were you just under the assumption that *that* land belonged to you and the description of the deed is correct?

 

[firebirdgold]

The sellers didn''t disclose there was a problem with the property line in the disclosure. When I was investigating the empty city owned lot next door I realized that there might be a problem with the property lines. I worried that they might have just used some of that land for the yard. I''m not sure why I thought that. But the property is triangle shape, the yard is a rectangle. You''re seeing my concern here?

I said, a few inches here or there were fine but that I didn''t want to discover later that a chunk of the nice yard wasn''t actually part of the property. The sellers assured me that there was no problem and that they knew where the property lines where and that their fence was on the property line.

My realtor decided to check it out more carefully and walked the property with a video camera and the sellers. He said the sellers were very nice and seemed honestly surprised there was a problem and want to be cooperative. I gather they never had a survey when they bought the house ten years ago. From looking at the plat from the city and what posts he could find, my realtor said that there was obviously a problem. A possibly rather large problem.


We are still in escrow and we can still back out. It is now dependent on my approval of the property lines. We can walk away with all our money intact. (I love my realtor!) But it''s our dream house.

 

[firebirdgold]

Oh, and a mortgage isn''t a big concern. I''m more concerned with ignoring the problem and then having it bite us when we go to sell later. Or having some developer come in and buy the land and stuff 3 houses onto it.

 

[firebirdgold]

And the news just keeps getting better and better.

Turns out that the city owned property is now in the process of being acquired by the nearby church. There''s a Calvary Chapel Church that''s quite large. It''s already bought the property on the other side of the road, and since the road has been closed they are trying to get that too. And then they are planning on building something, I don''t know what. (I have a bad feeling it''ll involve a school). While this could take a while... I am very disturbed by this.
Honestly I''m not sure I want to be neighbors with a church. And then to add on to it that a decent sized chunk of the yard would actually belong to the church...
I feel just so awful!

 

[Dee*Jay]

Oh Indie you poor thing! I do agree with you know about not wanting to be neghbors with a Church--or a school for that matter. Now''s a good time to have a big stiff drink (or three)...

 

[FireGoddess]

Oh gosh IJ - the time to find out is definitely now, while you can back out though...I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction...but impending projects may not make this your ''dream house'' after all.

 

[partgypsy]

All I can say you should feel glad you found this out Before you purchased the house, rather than after.

 

[fire&ice]

Oh dear, there is quite a bit that went on in my neighborhood with Churches. They were acquiring the adjacent land for parking lots. And took every darn bit of real estate to do so. Here, there are no set backs for Churches.

I think I would loose sleep not knowing who or what could neighbor the property. Even with the correct land, do you have enough of a buffer?

 

[Regular Guy]

Oy

 

[AGSHF]

Just a few thoughts:

Sorry you are dealing with this. But, I agree with those who've expressed concern about the property. I'm not familiar with Oregon's real estate practices, but I assume buyers and sellers go through a title company for escrow at closing? If so, I'd be curious to know what the prior survey (for the current owners) and the title policy states. A binder for title insurance should list all of the exceptions to the conveyance of clear title by the seller, such as easements, liens, etc. If there is a boundary problem, that should have come up in the prior survey and title policy when the property was acquired by this seller?

Adverse possession sounds great (open and notorious and all that), but highly unlikely to succeed in this day and age.

Regarding the proposed church and school, I would be worried about crowds, traffic, noise, etc.--the same things you're worried about. Think about future resale--the proximity of the church + can be a fatal "flaw" that any potential buyer in the future can't overlook. I know that you're probably not thinking about future resale when you're falling in love with a house, but it can be a killer.

I realize you say that this is your "dream house," but dream house or not, location is paramount. Houses can be renovated or remodelled, of course, but location is forever. Try not to let the features of the house cloud your judgment regarding something you can't change.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[scarleta]

"From looking at the plat from the city and what posts he could find, my realtor said that there was obviously a problem. A possibly rather large problem. "
Indie Jones so sorry to hear all above about your dream house...
What you may want to decide is this : is it all worth it? Surely its your dream house that you found, but having all this happening maybe the house is not a dream house after all.Sorry to put it like this but you are the one who now must decide on it...thinking about you and wishing you well in whatever you decide..

 

[firebirdgold]

You guys are right. It''s not our dream home if it''s missing part of the yard, loses it''s great privacy, and is neighbor to a Church (let alone neighbor to a construction zone for a Church''s school!!).

Fortunately our wonderful realtor has everything written up so all we have to do is say that we don''t approve of the property lines and we can just walk away with our good faith money.

This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Something really amazing and shocking happened, I''ll tell you more later!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/18/2007 2:44:07 AM
Author: IndieJones
You guys are right. It''s not our dream home if it''s missing part of the yard, loses it''s great privacy, and is neighbor to a Church (let alone neighbor to a construction zone for a Church''s school!!).

Fortunately our wonderful realtor has everything written up so all we have to do is say that we don''t approve of the property lines and we can just walk away with our good faith money.

This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Something really amazing and shocking happened, I''ll tell you more later!

Ditto to better to find out now Indie. I will avidly await your logging in later to hear what happened, am I getting very relieved and PHEW that was close vibes coming from you???

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 5/17/2007 11:38:18 PM
Author: AGSHF
Just a few thoughts:

Sorry you are dealing with this. But, I agree with those who''ve expressed concern about the property. I''m not familiar with Oregon''s real estate practices, but I assume buyers and sellers go through a title company for escrow at closing? If so, I''d be curious to know what the prior survey (for the current owners) and the title policy states. A binder for title insurance should list all of the exceptions to the conveyance of clear title by the seller, such as easements, liens, etc. If there is a boundary problem, that should have come up in the prior survey and title policy when the property was acquired by this seller?

Precisely why I said it could be a mortgage issue. It happened to us. An easement that appeared and a less and except acreage. The mortgage company called us on it. Since the appraisal was high enough, no cash call/bond off was needed; but, if the appraisal was tight, we''d have been screwed. Oh, and the title company had it in their documents. Long story short, I asked this stupid real estate attorney at closing 20 years ago why the plat and the title insurance acreage didn''t match. He basically thought I was being a PIA and alluded that was normal & nothing to worry about. At 27 I didn''t have the balls to pursue it further - it was after all our dream house.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 5/18/2007 2:44:07 AM
Author: IndieJones

This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Something really amazing and shocking happened, I''ll tell you more later!

Well good grief, talk about a cliff hanger!!


*tapping nails*

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/18/2007 10:44:06 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 5/18/2007 2:44:07 AM
Author: IndieJones

This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Something really amazing and shocking happened, I''ll tell you more later!

Well good grief, talk about a cliff hanger!!


*tapping nails*

I know, I am all agog!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 5/17/2007 11:38:18 PM
Author: AGSHF

I realize you say that this is your ''dream house,'' but dream house or not, location is paramount. Houses can be renovated or remodelled, of course, but location is forever. Try not to let the features of the house cloud your judgment regarding something you can''t change.

Emphatically agree with this.

We went through this two years ago when purchasing.....first house that I LOVED ended up with a title issue (previously unpaid heirs). We were assured it was being ''worked out'' and would be fine.

After much angst, we determined that we couldn''t take that big a gamble with our future. If something happened and we had the sell the property, we could be left holding the bag.

Though tough, we passed it by. During the process, we loved another house, but couldn''t agree on selling price. Good thing - turns out that a HUGELY busy convenience store went up within 100 yards of that house three months after it sold to someone else.

Things have a way of working out they way they are supposed to......what we ended up with was a FAR better choice than what we originally thought was our perfect pick.

 

[neatfreak]

Ohhh, crossing my fingers for you Indie!