Down to the wire - one day left to decide!!! Please help with input

[brightstone]

We are trying to decide between an online diamond and a store bought diamond. I''ll put the details below of the two and try to post a pic of the on-line diamond (I don''t have one of the store one). Of course the store bought has an appeal because we saw it with our own eyes today and it''s super sparkly . However, we feel the diamond on-line has better stats and is a really good deal for what it is (are we right in thinking this?). We were hoping to stick with a $6000 budget, but the on-line diamond is ?only? $1300 more and seems like such a good deal for what it is. Frustrating not being able to compare to the one we saw today. Can you please help us decide between the two?? What is the better deal?? We have to make a decision by tomorrow, the latest.

Also, a few other concerns:

What I don''t quite get about the on-line diamond is that the GIA certificate looks yellowed and old online (most don''t), and the certificate is dated 2005. Does this mean the diamond has been around that long and no one wants it or is it more likely that someone has owned it before and sold it and it''s now on the market again? When the store owner of the store diamond looked at that 2005 GIA cert date of the on-line diamond, he said, "you''ve got to wonder about why it''s been around for that long?". So, that confused me. Thoughts? Was be just trying to sell me his and desuade me from the on-line one or does he have a point?

The other thing is that the store owner, when he saw the details of the one we saw on-line, he noticed that his diamond did not have flourescence and the one we found on-line has "faint" florescence. He was trying to tell us that the florescence would make the diamond look "oily". What is your opinion of "faint florescence in an E color stone?

OK, Here are the stats on both:

Online diamond:
Price:$7,250 (no taxes)
1.31 ct
Excellent cut (however, it is pre-cut grade and does not actually say "excellent" about the cut on the GIA report, however stats speak for themselves...see below
Color: E
Clarity: SI2
*Eye Clean*, per vendor
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Cutlet: None
Girdle: Thin
Florescence: Faint
Table: 55% / Depth: 61.5%
AGL Round Name: 4222 Weight: 1.306 ct (WHAT IS AGL??)
Diameter: 7.090mm (7.07mm-7.11mm) - 0.6% EX
Total Depth: 4.33mm – 61.1% EX
Table: 3.89mm – 55% EX
Crown: 34.5 angle (33.5 angle – 35.6) 15.7%
Pavillion: 40.7 angle (39.5 angle – 41.9 angle) - 42.7% EX
Cutlet: 0.4% - Very small EX s/u:49.51
Girdle: 1.41% (0.85% - 1.69%) Thin-Medium 0 EX
HCA Score = 1.0
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1118772.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1118772.asp


Store diamond:
Price: $6000 (tax included)
1.23 ct
Ideal cut
Color: G
Clarity: SI2
*Eye Clean* (saw in person)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Cutlet: None
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Florescence: None
TBL: 58%
TD: 60.6%
Diameter: (6.92mm-7.01mm)
Crown: 33.5 angle
Pavillion: 41.2 angle
ST:55%
LH:75%
HCA Score=2.5

Thanks for your help ahead of time!! WE are ready to buy and are so excited, but want to get a good diamond for the money we spend.

 

[JulieN]

There is no way faint fluor. will make it look oily. The diamond should have very strong fluor, and even then, it is still very rare.

 

[neatfreak]

Well, the store jeweler either doesn't know what he's talking about re: flour (faint flour won't affect anything at all) or is trying to make a sale by lying to make the online stone seem worse. Don't appreciate it either way...so I wouldn't buy from him personally.

The JA stone will be gorgeous and is the one I would personally buy...

The cert issue could be a number of things...could be a stone that was traded in, could be a stone that was set into an ugly ring and never sold, you never know. But really, just because a certificate is new doesn't mean the diamond wasn't preowned anyway. There is no way to be sure that a stone wasn't preowned, so it's a silly concern IMO. A new certificate simply means it was sent out recently, doesn't mean it's a "new" stone.

 

[Ellen]

Going with what we have, I would go with the JA stone myself.

I also echo the gals, that''s nonsense about the flo. And as neat said, whichever reason it is for saying that, it does not garner a big vote of confidence in him.

 

[stone_seeker]

i''d get the JA one in a heartbeat. I dont like the tactic the salesman used. Plus all diamonds look sparkly in a jewelry store. The JA stone has great specs - if the extra $1200 isnt an issue, I would get it since its also an E color and will be bright AND sparkly. HCA score of 1 says it all.

faint fluor is not an issue at any color - he was trying to sell you.

 

[Cleo]

I would go with the JA stone, without question.

It''s higher colour, it''s bigger AND it''s better cut.

As the others have said, faint fluorescence will not negatively impact this diamond one little bit.... and I would be very wary of a jeweller who tried to tell me otherwise.

Why is he saying this? Is it so you choose his stone instead, or does he genuinely believe it to be true?

So, either he is lying, or he is misinformed about diamonds. Either way, this isn''t someone I would want to make such an important purchase from.

It''s likely the diamond may have been owned before (this is nothing to worry about, as many diamonds have). JA will have inspeacted the diamond to ensure it''s still in perfect condition - and of course, you can still have an independent appraisal done if you wish.

The great news with a JA purchase is they have a lifetime upgrade policy - so you can trade up anytime if you want to. I''m guessing the store doesn''t offer this option.

My vote''s for the JA diamond!

x x x

 

[purrfectpear]

One small thing to note about the JA stone. I saw it said Girdle, thin. That''s actually not that common. Usually it will say thin to med., or thin to something else. The fact that is says thin, period could be a concern depending on the type of setting you are planning. A thin girdle is more delicate in terms of chipping.

I would not buy a thin girdled stone for a tension set.

 

[JulieN]

A thin girdle is just fine, and has pretty much the same risk of chipping as a thin-medium girdle.

Buy insurance.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/23/2008 8:55:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear
One small thing to note about the JA stone. I saw it said Girdle, thin. That''s actually not that common. Usually it will say thin to med., or thin to something else. The fact that is says thin, period could be a concern depending on the type of setting you are planning. A thin girdle is more delicate in terms of chipping.

I would not buy a thin girdled stone for a tension set.

Purr, usually there are no worries with a thin girdle, especially with in house diamonds with great cuts - we do see a great many of them actually. With a diamond of '' unknown quantity'' then it could bear checking, but usually problems.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/24/2008 4:08:12 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/23/2008 8:55:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear
One small thing to note about the JA stone. I saw it said Girdle, thin. That's actually not that common. Usually it will say thin to med., or thin to something else. The fact that is says thin, period could be a concern depending on the type of setting you are planning. A thin girdle is more delicate in terms of chipping.

I would not buy a thin girdled stone for a tension set.

Purr, usually there are no worries with a thin girdle, especially with in house diamonds with great cuts - we do see a great many of them actually. With a diamond of ' unknown quantity' then it could bear checking, but usually problems.

We do, mine is one in fact.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/24/2008 4:08:12 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/23/2008 8:55:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear
One small thing to note about the JA stone. I saw it said Girdle, thin. That''s actually not that common. Usually it will say thin to med., or thin to something else. The fact that is says thin, period could be a concern depending on the type of setting you are planning. A thin girdle is more delicate in terms of chipping.

I would not buy a thin girdled stone for a tension set.

Purr, usually there are no worries with a thin girdle, especially with in house diamonds with great cuts - we do see a great many of them actually. With a diamond of '' unknown quantity'' then it could bear checking, but usually problems.

AAAGH! I missed an edit, I meant to say but usually no problems!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/24/2008 8:30:22 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/24/2008 4:08:12 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/23/2008 8:55:24 PM
Author: purrfectpear
One small thing to note about the JA stone. I saw it said Girdle, thin. That''s actually not that common. Usually it will say thin to med., or thin to something else. The fact that is says thin, period could be a concern depending on the type of setting you are planning. A thin girdle is more delicate in terms of chipping.

I would not buy a thin girdled stone for a tension set.

Purr, usually there are no worries with a thin girdle, especially with in house diamonds with great cuts - we do see a great many of them actually. With a diamond of '' unknown quantity'' then it could bear checking, but usually problems.

AAAGH! I missed an edit, I meant to say but usually no problems!

Ha! I read that, WITH the no, as I knew what you were saying. *guzzling more coffeee* Must stop postinng early in the AM!

 

[:)]

Hi. The fluoro statement made by the jeweler is ridiculous and would personally make me distrustful/suspicious to deal with him/her.
Also, who did the grading report on the stone you have already seen? (GIA/EGL/AGS, etc) - if it isn''t GIA or AGS then I would have other possible concerns that I will elaborate on later if you say it was graded by another lab.

That said, I have to agree that the stats on the on line one are better.
That said, I am concerned it is above your budget and I don''t want to advocate for potential trouble
Would you like for us to try to help you find a stone in budget that is as well cut?

If you do decide you want the one you have seen already, MAKE SURE you get it see it in shaded sunlight, direct sunlight (one of my concerns if it was graded by another lab), under the counter in the jewelry store, etc. Sometimes inclusions pop out in different lighting situations. Also when you don''t have direct ''jewelry store lighting'', stones that are not as well cut can suddenly ''appear'' to lose their sparkle.

Good luck!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 8/23/2008 6:06:57 PM
Author:brightstone

When the store owner of the store diamond looked at that 2005 GIA cert date of the on-line diamond, he said, ''you''ve got to wonder about why it''s been around for that long?''. So, that confused me. Thoughts? Was be just trying to sell me his and desuade me from the on-line one or does he have a point?

The other thing is that the store owner, when he saw the details of the one we saw on-line, he noticed that his diamond did not have flourescence and the one we found on-line has ''faint'' florescence. He was trying to tell us that the florescence would make the diamond look ''oily''. What is your opinion of ''faint florescence in an E color stone?

Honestly, why reward someone who is lying to you with your hard earned money??

B&M stores are facing a crisis: they know they simply cannot compete with online vendors, both price and often quality wise. But, trashing the onlne choice with bull statements is certainly not the way to win the client imho..

To his speech about fluoro, I say "ppfffttt"..As the other posters have said, either he''s full of it, or (even worse) knows very little about diamond education.
As to the cert, this is not uncommon - sometimes stones just take longer to find "the right home".
I ditto the JA stone, but if you are not comfortable 110%, why not just keep looking..?

 

[brightstone]

Hey everyone and thank you so much for all of your comments. We really appreciate it. I am so impressed with this site and how it helps people in these situations.

I only slept 2 hours because I couldn''t stop thinking about it and reading more research on HCA scores on my boyfriend''s iphone while he slept next to me. I feel stupid for obsessing about it that way I am/have, in a way. There was a moment last night at 4am when I couldn''t sleep bc I was obsessing and my boyfriend said so patiently, "turn over and I''ll rub your back". It took all of this ridiculousness away and I realized again how distracted I was and what an amazing guy I have in front of me. Then, I could have cared less about which one we go with and I have felt the same way since.

The problem (obsessing with the stats) arose after I found the GOG site and read like a madwoman and became fascinated, especially the engineering/performance (ie. cut) aspect of a diamond. I kept reading and then searching. My boyfriend loved that I was this involved because he said he wants me to see the diamond to make sure it is something I like.

After days of research and posting on here, I was so proud of myself to have learned all I did and to have found what I think is an unlabeled hearts and arrows dimaond from JA for a really good price ($7300).

It was my mistake not to stay in the budget we agreed on and we really need to stick with the $6000 budget we started with (the setting we chose together already costs $2000, so I feel spoiled rotten already).

My attachment to the JA stone was it''s stats, the arduous process I went through to find it (probably spent 50 hours reading and searching...I am just that way and love learning), and the AMAZING customer service experience I had with them. I also like that their diamonds are conflict free . Because I spent so much time on finding it and narrowing down to this one, I found that process incredibly symbolic of how long it took me and the hard work I went through to find my boyfriend.

I think I mourned the JA stone last night and we decided today to go with the stone we saw at the local jewelers (the 1.23 G SI2 stone listed above). It is a GIA certified stone (one of you asked). Is this diamond a good deal for the money????? That''s what we want to know now. I don''t want to go below that carat size, so we are limited. It''s a HCA of 2.5.....which, in my understanding, is not 0-2, but is still REALLY sparkly and brilliant. Right????? Isn''t and HCA of 2.5 pretty good for this price, all around?

I agree with you that the jeweler said those things to put red flags in my head that might dissuade me from the on-line stone, but to his credit, when he saw the xerox picture of the on-line stone and pointed out the hearts and arrows, and looked at the "curved lines" of the table around the edges and said he could tell it was a very well cut stone. He does offer trade in at any time for upgrade and free cleaning, and that he''d replace for free any side stone that fell out. Total package for the B&M dimaond and setting are $8000 (he''s cutting us a deal).

So, I guess I just want to know now what you guys think of the B&M diamond and the 2.5HCA. If you think it is not a quality diamond for the price, any recommendations on better quality stones (without going down in the carat size) within a $6000 budget, would be greatly appreciated.

My boyfriend and I have had a good time together being so involved with this, but are ready for it to be finished. Thanks again for all your opinions and time.

xoxo

p.s. I''ll attach a pic of the setting. I love it because it looks like a simple solitare from the top view, and then it surprises you with the side diamonds from other views.

 

[mobius8]

That''s a VERY pretty ring BRIGHTSTONE.
I am far from an expert, but one thing I have learned from the wonderful folks here is that you can educate yourself so that you don''t get ripped off and then you can learn so much that you drive yourself crazy if you are so inclined. But what it really comes down to I think is.....
1: Can you afford it?
2: When you see it, does it make you just think THIS IS IT?

I think I finally reached that point last week and that feeling just made all the difference, and makes all the stress go away.
Even if you have it in the back of your head that you could perhaps get a larger stone for the money, or a slightly better deal somewhere. If you are getting a fair deal and it makes your heart beat a little faster to see it then you are done.

That''s my opinion, for what it''s worth.

 

[:)]

Brightstone, I think you know the answer You have found your stone and setting (beautiful setting btw!). It is easy to get caught up in the stats, but when your eyes tell you 'bright and sparkly and I am happy', then that is all you need! We use the HCA to try to weed out stones that we cannot see with our own eyes - don't get too caught up in it in reverse if you have a stone in hand that you love. You had the chance to see your stone with your own eyes and it sounds like you found your winner! I am glad that GIA did the report - sometimes other labs can 'overgrade' so when you take the stone in direct sunlight inclusions that you previously weren't aware of can pop out at you. The only one last thing I would suggest is to take the stone and look at it in different lightings (see if the jeweler will take you outside in shaded sunlight, and also shield it inside the store with your hand from the overhead lighting or put it under the counter). If it still sparkles as brilliantly as you love then you have it - congrats!

ETA: looking at the photo of the ring, it looks like the sides are pretty covered. That stone may benefit from more open sides. Could they drop the stone into the setting so that you can see the stone in the setting and reevalute how sparkly (in various lightings) you feel it is at that time?

 

[:)]

Hey, Bright, for the heak of it I am going to throw out a stone in case yours does not work out. It is a bit bigger and almost $1K under budget.

http://winkjones.com/specials/diamonds.php - go down to the 1.36 to see the one I am talking about.

This is an Infinity stone, h&a. It is an I1, but per Wink''s comments "very eye cleanish,BEAUTIFUL GEM!" (you would need to contact him to elaborate on this)
It has medium blue fluoro which I happen to

RB 1.36 H I1 $5,057
AGS 61.5 55.4 34.4 15.3 40.7 43 7.12 - 7.16 x 4.39
cut grade was dinged for polish (not a big deal), not the light performance

 

[brightstone]

Thanks for your suggestion. Funny...I can''t seem to get my mind off of the JA diamond because of all the time, effort, learning, and searching high and low that went into finding it and so it almost became emotional, and because it did, I then attached all this symbolism to it (ie. how very long and hard I also looked for my amazing boyfriend (I''m 36 and had many other changes at commitment but didn''t feel it was right or wasn''t ready and now, finally, I have done the hard work on myself and found someone who I love, respect, and admire so much that I want to commit to spending my life with him....it took a long time to find him!) and how *brilliant* (although not perfect, as nothing in life is EVER...i.e....I LIKE the flaws for their symbolism too) our finding each other and having a relationship and life together is. So, I see the JA diamond as so symbolic for this and other reasons I won''t even go into because I don''t have the time to type before I leave for work.

Despite this ?crazy? thinking with the diamond, regardless of which one is chosen today, I will be amazingly happy because I have him.

Thank you so much for all of your input psers!!

 

[Ellen]

Good luck with your decision today brightstone!

 

[brightstone]

So, we have decided to order the JA stone to complete this lengthy search and come full circle by SEEING the two together and then going with one. My question now is....we are ordering the diamond from JA today. If we go with this one, should we give it to the Brick and Mortar jeweler who sold us the other so that he can send it to Varna (the desginer of our setting) to be mounted (I originally saw this setting his store) or should I feel bad that we rejected his diamond and are still wanting him to do the setting work?

Also, another big question is what if we give him the diamond to send to varna to set but we don''t have insurance on it yet because we don''t have it mounted and it somehow gets lost or the jeweler says we never gave him a dimaond to set (which I doubt would ever happen, but with something this expensive we have to be careful). How do we and do we need to protect ourselves in this situation. Should we insure the diamond ALONE before we give it to the jeweler to send to Varna to mount?

Thank you guys...I am SO excited that I get to SEE the two together and will update you as to how things turn out!

 

[purrfectpear]

Not sure you can actually get insurance on the stone alone. Some PSrs have had their stone set in the least expensive $250 mounting so that they can get insurance.

 

[brightstone]

Update to all you guys who helped me along the way.....thank you . My boyfriend and I are ecstatic!! We bought the JA stone, even though it was a litte more $, because we''d done oodles of work to narrow it down to that one and couldn''t let it go sight unseen. so, yesterday, with JA stone in hand, we went the B&M store where we were comparing it to the second diamond. After the store owner spent about an hour with us (he was AMAZING and I would recommend him to anyone), we decided on the JA stone. I liked more it because it was .10 cts bigger than the B&M diamond (1.31 compared to a 1.23, see details stats on my first post in this thread), and when I went to the window and the outside light shone on in in a certain way, the E color ideal cut 1.31 stayed bright and the other, although very sparkly and bright, looked a little darker/more shadowy. So, I chose the JA and am SO excited. My baby stone is being mounted and will be back in three weeks, and then I just have to wait..... I can''t wait!!!

Anyway, I just also wanted to follow up with the conversation/comments about flourescence in this thread. When the B&M store owner looked at the online JA diamond stats (on paper) and saw it was "faint flourescence" (we hadn''t bought this JA stone yet, but were just telling him about it compared to the one he was showing us), he said that the dimaond might look a little "oily" because of the flourescence. Everyone on here said they thought he was just trying to trash the on-line stone and sell his own, but last night when we went in to his store with our on-line stone, he showed us exactly what he meant by flourescence, and both my boyfriend and I definitely noticed it too.

The JA stone, which has faint flourescence, appear just ever so slightly more milky/opaque than the stone with no florescence. We asked him to steam both, and he did. He said that immedietly after steaming, they would appear the same because they were still a bit wet, but when they dried they would show the same (ie. the faint florescence stone appear ever so slightly more opaque or milky than the other). Sure enough, this happened. He was right on!! Depsite the florescence not bothering me almost at all, it definitely can be noticed if you know what to look for. My boyfriend thought the better description for it WAS "oily". Anyway, just wante to follow up on everyone''s comments on the B&M store owner''s comments about florescence. In the end, I guess it''s just a personal preference, and he happens to be one that doesn''t like it. I wasn''t crazy about it, but didn''t dislike it enough to not get the JA stone that was bigger, less color, and a little brghter.

Anyway, I know people are going on-line crazy, including myself, but I also had the best experience with this B&M....the time the guy took with us, showing us all this, despite the fact that we were coming in with a stone we hadn''t bought from him. I guess the ideal is to be like GOG, with their face to face B&M location and also an amazing web site and presence. I told him he should get onto Pricescope and start thinking on-line too at some point

Hope there weren''t too many typos in this....typing quickly and gotta run because I am work

thanks again for all your help guys! I am so excited for the time to come and will then post a pic of the wonderful creation

 

[Ellen]

bright, coongrats on your stone!! Woohooo!!!


I''ll be honest, I''m a bit perplexed about the flo deal. My stone has faint, and it is not milky/oily, at all. It''s as clear and crisp as an ice cube....And yours really should be too.

But at any rate, I''m glad you love it, can''t wait to see it set!

 

[brightstone]

Seriously, ALONE, it looks as crystal clear as an ice cube, it''s onyl when comparing it to one with NO florescence that you actually can see...and I mean, just BARELY.....it''s negligible, a slight slight difference in the opaqueness. Given that, what we saw, it makes a lot of sense to me how a stronger florescence stone works to make a lower color grade appear whiter.

Thanks for the congrats....I say WOOOHOOO too!! You would laugh at us, and the ginormous spreadsheet we put together comparing all the stone we selected from various websites. I weeded them out by not being eye clean (that involved making phone calls to check) and also if the table, depth, and other precentages were outside of that which an IDEAL is supposed to be. I was then left with the JA...my little baby diamond. Funny...yesterday, when it was at home, and I was at work...I had that feeling you get when you have a new pet or puppy at home and you have to drag yourself to work but you can''t WAIT to get home to see it again.

Anyway, in the process of weeding out other stones, I was so suprised at how many stones are labeled IDEAL, even GIA and AGS, when their percentages are slightly outside of the perameters for ideal. Tricky.....and I''m glad I looked at every detail ''cause my diamond is gorgeous