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Does this diamond have a good cut?

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saradbx

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
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I have been offered this diamond and want to find out if it''s a good cut. It''s HRD certified so doesn''t have specific cut info, just proportions. I tried to use the HCA but there is no total depth listed so it didn''t work... this was my first try with the HCA so I am probably doing something wrong.. any advice on that one appreciated also..!

Here is the info that is on the certificate:

Shape: brilliant
weight: 3.01ct
clarity: vs1
flour: nil
colour: white (H)
measurements: 9.26-9.31mm x 5.68mm
proportions: very good (top grade for HRD)
girdle: med 4% faceted
culet: pointed
table width: 57%
cr height: 14%
pav depth: 42.5%
finish grade: very good (top grade for HRD)

Thanks in advance..

Sara
 
Your crown height is 14%?
33.gif
 
Yes - just checked it. That''s bad isn''t it... I can tell.
 
Date: 2/19/2008 11:46:43 AM
Author: saradbx
Yes - just checked it. That''s bad isn''t it... I can tell.
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I''m not sure, actually. I think it''s kind of small (when available, crown/pavilion angles are used because they''re more accurate than percentages), but I''m new at this, so it could be fine! I don''t know.
 
I put the figures into the HCA and put the total depth as 56.8.. and it came back as ''the girdle is dangerously thin...'' so I''m guessing it''s bad.. I wanted to find out if I can use the measurement figure of 5.68mm x100 for the depth?
 
Lorelei gave me some numbers to go by when looking at round brilliants--she said that generally, if you stick within these ranges, you''ll get a well-cut stone. You might find them useful (although how useful I don''t know, if you don''t have angle measurements on your grading reports):

depth - 60 - 62% (although you can go deeper if all else is right, suggest a max of 62.6%)
table - 54 - 57%
crown angle -shallower 34 - 35 degrees, getting a bit steeper = further eval
pavillion angle - shallower 40.5 - 40.9 or 41 degrees, getting a bit steeper= further eval
girdle thin to slightly thick, medium, slightly thin are all fine, avoid extremes such as thin to ex thick.
 
The crown height isn''t too bad at 14%. However, coupled with the pavilion depth, it appears the stone is rather shallow. The measurements don''t seem to add up if the result comes back with a dangerously thin girdle since the report says your girdle is a medium.
 
The total depth can be calculated dividing the depth by the average diameter, then x 100.

In this case the total depth is 61.17%.

I calculate the HCA score to be 1.2 (Excellent) with scores of VG/Ex/Ex/VG for Light Return, Fire, Scintillation and spread respectively.

x x x
 
Thanks Gwen!

I have copied these instructions on how to calculate depth.

To get the depth percentage for a round brilliant you divide its depth in mm by its average girdle diameter.

Example: A round measures 6.48–6.52 x 3.95



First, get the average girdle diameter. Add the smallest and largest diameters (the first two mm numbers) and divide by two.



* Add the first two numbers (6.48 + 6.52 = 13.00)
* Divide by 2 (13.00 ÷ 2 = 6.50)
* Round to the nearest hundredth = 6.50

Second, divide depth (the third mm number) by the average girdle diameter you calculated and multiply by 100, rounding the result to the nearest tenth of a percent.



* Divide depth by average girdle diameter (3.95 ÷ 6.50 = 0.60769)
* Multiply by 100 (60.769)
* Round to the nearest tenth of a percent = 60.8%

So I make the depth about 61.2% which is fine. Also percentages aren't as accurate as angles for crown and pavillion, but having said that, HRD is a good lab and I would see if you could get an Idealscope image to check this diamond out - great size!
 
Thanks everyone! The certificate was faxed to me so I haven''t seen the stone yet. I really wanted a G, VS1 or eyeclean SI1.

Now for some stupid questions (apologies in advance..)..

1. Lorelei you said I should now get an idealscope image. I just spoke to the trader and he never heard of it. How do I get one and is it easy to use as a novice if I bought it myself?
2. What is the next step after that?
3. What kind of price bracket should I be looking at for this diamond?

Thanks again in advance! I am so relieved that I found this website..!

Sara
 
Date: 2/19/2008 12:52:21 PM
Author: saradbx
Thanks everyone! The certificate was faxed to me so I haven't seen the stone yet. I really wanted a G, VS1 or eyeclean SI1.

Now for some stupid questions (apologies in advance..)..

1. Lorelei you said I should now get an idealscope image. I just spoke to the trader and he never heard of it. How do I get one and is it easy to use as a novice if I bought it myself?
2. What is the next step after that?
3. What kind of price bracket should I be looking at for this diamond?

Thanks again in advance! I am so relieved that I found this website..!

Sara
Click to expand...
Sara, no question is silly, so please don't worry!

Now, an Idealscope image can be very helpful to show if a diamond leaks light and not give you the max light return and sparkle. You can order an Idealscope for yourself quite inexpensively and they are a really useful tool. Here is the link which also explains how to read the results and use it. Some online vendors often have Idealscope images of their diamonds, but not all do.

https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

2) If you have seen the diamond and like it, I would make the sale final on an independant appraisal. I don't know whereabouts you are, but an evaluation by an experienced appraiser who doesn't sell jewellery may be worthwhile. To the best of my knowledge, HRD is a good lab not widely known outside Europe.

3) The price bracket - you can get an idea with the Pricescope your diamond tool above, remember that online prices may be cheaper than with a jeweller or other dealer.
 
Ran it thru DC and the angles come out as a shallow shallow with a slthick girdle using the percentages as a baseline.


33.05 crown 40.38 pavilion.

Predicted AGS score of 5.
Pass

When dealing with percentages look for a Pavilion depth % around 43-43.5 and
crown 14.5%-15% with a 57% table
crown 14.8% to 15.4% with a 56% table
crown 15.2%-15.7% with a 55% table.
 
Sara have you seen this diamond and love it?
 
No, I haven''t seen it yet. I just had the certificate faxed to me and thought I would see if its okay on the HCA.

Storm - what is a DC test? Those results sound bad!

I have just bought an Idealscope although I live in Dubai so God only knows when it will get to me! Looks like the search will continue, but I can practise using my IS in the meantime (if it ever gets here)...

I just called Tiffany here today and they told me they only use GIA because it offers the best cut grading in the world! She obvously hasn''t visited PS...
1.gif
 
Sara, DC means DiamondCalc which is a simulator program which can give a computer simulated idea of how the diamond may look/ perform. It is a shallower combo, some feel that this type might be better for pendants or earrings due to the conditions which they are worn, but this isn't set it stone, and can be an individual preference.

If you could tell us the price roughly, perhaps we could take a look and see what else is out there if you would consider buying online. What is the deal with the trader who has this diamond? Can you see it first and check it out with your IS when it comes? Does he have a solid return policy or would he let you have the sale made final on an independant appraisal? Basically my thoughts on this diamond are as follows. It is a shallow shallow combo with the crown and pavillion angles, but it still may be a very attractive diamond of what we call a nice make of cut, although not cut to the absolutely tightest superideal standards. Diamonds of this size and spec are scarce and highly desirable, so depending on how easy or difficult it is for you to purchase where you are or online, this diamond may be worth further investigation. Yes, you may be able to find one with a tighter cut, but it depends on what you are looking for. If you want a top notch superideal cut to the most exacting standards for light performance, this may not be it. If you are looking for a bright and attractive diamond which is well cut, this might be just fine.
 
Date: 2/20/2008 7:39:06 AM
Author: Lorelei
Sara, DC means DiamondCalc which is a simulator program which can give a computer simulated idea of how the diamond may look/ perform. It is a shallower combo, some feel that this type might be better for pendants or earrings due to the conditions which they are worn, but this isn''t set it stone, and can be an individual preference.

If you could tell us the price roughly, perhaps we could take a look and see what else is out there if you would consider buying online. What is the deal with the trader who has this diamond? Can you see it first and check it out with your IS when it comes? Does he have a solid return policy or would he let you have the sale made final on an independant appraisal? Basically my thoughts on this diamond are as follows. It is a shallow shallow combo with the crown and pavillion angles, but it still may be a very attractive diamond of what we call a nice make of cut, although not cut to the absolutely tightest superideal standards. Diamonds of this size and spec are scarce and highly desirable, so depending on how easy or difficult it is for you to purchase where you are or online, this diamond may be worth further investigation. Yes, you may be able to find one with a tighter cut, but it depends on what you are looking for. If you want a top notch superideal cut to the most exacting standards for light performance, this may not be it. If you are looking for a bright and attractive diamond which is well cut, this might be just fine.
Click to expand...
What she said.
 
Date: 2/20/2008 7:47:19 AM
Author: Ellen
Date: 2/20/2008 7:39:06 AM

Author: Lorelei

Sara, DC means DiamondCalc which is a simulator program which can give a computer simulated idea of how the diamond may look/ perform. It is a shallower combo, some feel that this type might be better for pendants or earrings due to the conditions which they are worn, but this isn't set it stone, and can be an individual preference.


If you could tell us the price roughly, perhaps we could take a look and see what else is out there if you would consider buying online. What is the deal with the trader who has this diamond? Can you see it first and check it out with your IS when it comes? Does he have a solid return policy or would he let you have the sale made final on an independant appraisal? Basically my thoughts on this diamond are as follows. It is a shallow shallow combo with the crown and pavillion angles, but it still may be a very attractive diamond of what we call a nice make of cut, although not cut to the absolutely tightest superideal standards. Diamonds of this size and spec are scarce and highly desirable, so depending on how easy or difficult it is for you to purchase where you are or online, this diamond may be worth further investigation. Yes, you may be able to find one with a tighter cut, but it depends on what you are looking for. If you want a top notch superideal cut to the most exacting standards for light performance, this may not be it. If you are looking for a bright and attractive diamond which is well cut, this might be just fine.
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What she said.
Click to expand...
Just so you guys know, there's another thread on what I think is the same stone: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hello-and-how-much-should-i-pay-for-this-diamond.78918/

ETA: Nevermind, this looks like it's a different one. Ignore me.
 
Hi everyone and thanks very much for all the advice so far.

The guy that I am dealing with is a trader who owns five shops here in Dubai (where I live) and one in New York. For this diamond his first price was $49000 - I say ''first'' because bartering for goods in the Gold and Diamond Souk (Market) is the norm. So it would be definitely less, and we would both arrive at a figure that we would be happy with in the end. Diamonds and gold are cheaper here (people come on holiday just to buy because its cheap and tax free). The trader that I am dealing with told me that the diamond tourist trade has created a big market for large, average quality diamonds - which I guess is what I keep coming across. He said his best customers are Russians who come on holiday to buy huge (10 carat+!) diamonds with very poor cut/clarity, as this is not an issue to them. He also said that there is no market for H and A diamonds here - yet.

There is a Tiffany''s and a Debeers in the mall here and they are charging around $100,000 for similar stones that I am looking at, with GIA cert and very good/ex cut (I called them today). I am not willing to pay this premium for theTiffany name.

I am happy to pay more for an excellent cut (now I know how important it is) or if it is too much for my budget to go for a smaller high qualilty stone. I have told the trader that I am only interested in looking at HRD stones (stones are mostly IGI or HRD here) with a top ''very good'' grade for proportion. I am now aware (thanks to this forum!) that HRD is an excellent lab but its one drawback is that it grades more loosely on ''proportions''. So I thought I will keep looking and running the figures of stones I like by everyone here, until I come across ''the one''. I have ordered an IS and will start trying to learn about how to use this properly in the meantime.

I have also been seriously considering buying online and contacted JA for an IS image of an IC I was looking at - but they don''t deliver to Dubai. I would be interested in any recommendations for trustworthy dealers that can help me and will deliver to my neck of the woods.

Thanks again in advance!

Sara
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Sara, I would contact Whiteflash, Good old Gold, Wink Jones, Bill Pearlman and ask them if they can deliver to Dubai. If you can find a vendor that will, then you can tell them what you are looking for and they can perhaps source you some diamonds.

Also could your vendor get GIA Excellent cut grade diamonds and or AGS0 cut grade? That might help you to find a well cut diamond there, especially as he also has a store in New York, I wouldn't have thought it would be impossible to source you a diamond of this calibre.

Also these are the measurements we would need for your contenders if you want to run them by us.

depth
table
crown angle ( percents if that is what you have)
pavillion angle ( same as above)
girdle thickness
diameter measurement
fluorescence or lack of

With these we can help!
 
Thanks very much Lorelei - I know how to contact Whiteflash and GOG, but how do I contact the other guys? Do they have links here somewhere?
 
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