Does anything good ever pass through EGL or IGI?

[Finally!]

My co-worker's new ering has a hunk of Zales frozen spit in it. I felt so bad when I saw that she and the BF had spent their hard-earned money on that. It was hard to smile and say "Wow, I've never seen one like that before. That oval's an interesting shape!" PS totally takes you out of the Matrix and opens your eyes to the truth.

Returning to my desk I suddenly wondered "If these labs grade so liberally, what do they call stones that really are worthy of top honors?"

Does it ever happen?

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I actually do have an RB that is IGI graded (purchsed at a local pawn shop) and it is quite beautiful! It has arrows and I cannot see anything that even remotely resembles an inclusion of any kind. I have no idea where it was originally purchased since it was an estate piece, but it is a sparkler.

I also had an EGL USA graded EC that was gorgeous...I upgraded that stone, but I miss it now and wish that I would have held onto it. So yes, I do think that it is possible.

 

[chrono]

Yes. I have an accurately graded EGL USA Old European Cut diamond. Whiteflash verified the colour and clarity to be correct. The cut was also very good for an old style stone.

However, I would never buy an EGL Europe, EGL Israel or IGI stone.

 

[amyjokerette]

Date: 10/1/2008 9:38:08 PM
Author:Finally!
My co-worker''s new ering has a hunk of Zales frozen spit in it.

Ouch! Bummer for her... but just be happy that she is happy. In time maybe she will feel the same way and get ab upgrade, until then, at least she''s happy!

 

[Finally!]

I was happy for her. She and he love each other very much, it''s obvious. But I just felt so bad because if I''d known they were in the market, I would have turned her on to PS and right now she''d have a tiny, shining sparkler on her finger instead.

 

[jstarfireb]

Costco''s stones are mostly IGI graded. I think their >1ct stones are GIA graded as well. And they actually have some pretty nicely cut stones. I think these are the only IGI graded stones I would actually buy. And I would probably take it to an independent appraiser, or at least I''d make sure it''s eye-clean, scour it with a loupe, and compare it to my J color pendant stone from WF.

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes,

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprise if the majority of stones from these labs are correctly graded. The problem, especially with high end stones (read expensive), is that you rarely them because of the premiums that accompany the other labs brands and the ones that do end up being accurate are filtered out of the system and rerouted to ‘better’ labs by the dealers in the chain because it helps the price. Converting a 2.00/VS1/F/Ideal/EGL into a 2.00/VS1/F/Excellnet/GIA simply pays too well for too little of an investment to expect them to make it through the marketplace. That ‘correct’ EGL document didn’t survive a day before the same dealer who sent it to them, resubmits it to GIA and the fact that EGL got it right is lost to history. On the other hand, if they screw one badly, it hits the market immediately and gets heavily pushed as CERTIFIED!!! and therefore a great bargain. GIA, if they ever saw it at all, becomes the one that's lost to the world.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/2/2008 8:36:03 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Yes,

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprise if the majority of stones from these labs are correctly graded. The problem, especially with high end stones (read expensive), is that you rarely them because of the premiums that accompany the other labs brands and the ones that do end up being accurate are filtered out of the system and rerouted to ‘better’ labs by the dealers in the chain because it helps the price. Converting a 2.00/VS1/F/Ideal/EGL into a 2.00/VS1/F/Excellnet/GIA simply pays too well for too little of an investment to expect them to make it through the marketplace. That ‘correct’ EGL document didn’t survive a day before the same dealer who sent it to them, resubmits it to GIA and the fact that EGL got it right is lost to history. On the other hand, if they screw one badly, it hits the market immediately and gets heavily pushed as CERTIFIED!!! and therefore a great bargain. GIA, if they ever saw it at all, becomes the one that''s lost to the world.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I agree Neil, but it is common practice to simplify the process and send the same stone to several labs and choose the one that make it worth the most for each market.
That means an email would go to an upmarket store with the stone listed as GIA, and it would be offered as a bulk deal with EGL Israel to a bottom feeder. Then overlay the geographical taste and it might be IGI which is well considered in Asia (where it seems their grading is stricter) or HRD.

The thing from the trade point of view is consistency - far more important - if lab X is 1/2 grade soft on colur in <1ct, then you can do a deal - but under <1ct GIA can be rather sloppy in my experiance.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 10/2/2008 8:52:06 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/2/2008 8:36:03 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Yes,

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprise if the majority of stones from these labs are correctly graded. The problem, especially with high end stones (read expensive), is that you rarely them because of the premiums that accompany the other labs brands and the ones that do end up being accurate are filtered out of the system and rerouted to ‘better’ labs by the dealers in the chain because it helps the price. Converting a 2.00/VS1/F/Ideal/EGL into a 2.00/VS1/F/Excellnet/GIA simply pays too well for too little of an investment to expect them to make it through the marketplace. That ‘correct’ EGL document didn’t survive a day before the same dealer who sent it to them, resubmits it to GIA and the fact that EGL got it right is lost to history. On the other hand, if they screw one badly, it hits the market immediately and gets heavily pushed as CERTIFIED!!! and therefore a great bargain. GIA, if they ever saw it at all, becomes the one that''s lost to the world.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I agree Neil, but it is common practice to simplify the process and send the same stone to several labs and choose the one that make it worth the most for each market.
That means an email would go to an upmarket store with the stone listed as GIA, and it would be offered as a bulk deal with EGL Israel to a bottom feeder. Then overlay the geographical taste and it might be IGI which is well considered in Asia (where it seems their grading is stricter) or HRD.

The thing from the trade point of view is consistency - far more important - if lab X is 1/2 grade soft on colur in <1ct, then you can do a deal - but under <1ct GIA can be rather sloppy in my experiance.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree Garry. Neil''s explanation looks much more logical and common.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/2/2008 8:52:06 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I agree Neil, but it is common practice to simplify the process and send the same stone to several labs and choose the one that make it worth the most for each market.

That means an email would go to an upmarket store with the stone listed as GIA, and it would be offered as a bulk deal with EGL Israel to a bottom feeder. Then overlay the geographical taste and it might be IGI which is well considered in Asia (where it seems their grading is stricter) or HRD.


The thing from the trade point of view is consistency - far more important - if lab X is 1/2 grade soft on colur in <1ct, then you can do a deal - but under <1ct GIA can be rather sloppy in my experiance.

A pretty high fraction of the stones being offered seem to make it into the virtual database here. Can you find a single example of the same stone being offered simultaneously with different flavors of paperwork?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

The question always becomes did I get what I paid for and did I get a fair price.
The grading reports came about because people did not trust the jewelers to provide accurate information and to be truthful many didn''t.
Now you have the same situation but its labs that are providing garbage information.
Instead of 10 jewelers near you with 2 providing reasonably accurate and reasonably consistent information most of the time and the rest not to varying degrees its the labs doing the same.
Just like in the old days you have exceptions and some places may have 30 with 10 good. (small labs that do good work)
The kewl thing is that today the good ones can get known beyond a small region thanks to the internet and that applies to dealers and labs/appraisers.

Right or wrong that is my take on it.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/2/2008 9:30:41 AM
Author: denverappraiser

A pretty high fraction of the stones being offered seem to make it into the virtual database here. Can you find a single example of the same stone being offered simultaneously with different flavors of paperwork?


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

If I could get the raw data it would be interesting to find out.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 10/2/2008 8:36:03 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Yes,

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprise if the majority of stones from these labs are correctly graded. The problem, especially with high end stones (read expensive), is that you rarely them because of the premiums that accompany the other labs brands and the ones that do end up being accurate are filtered out of the system and rerouted to ‘better’ labs by the dealers in the chain because it helps the price. Converting a 2.00/VS1/F/Ideal/EGL into a 2.00/VS1/F/Excellnet/GIA simply pays too well for too little of an investment to expect them to make it through the marketplace. That ‘correct’ EGL document didn’t survive a day before the same dealer who sent it to them, resubmits it to GIA and the fact that EGL got it right is lost to history. On the other hand, if they screw one badly, it hits the market immediately and gets heavily pushed as CERTIFIED!!! and therefore a great bargain. GIA, if they ever saw it at all, becomes the one that''s lost to the world.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

HI:

As usual, well said.

cheers--Sharon

 

[vespergirl]

Yes, I have a beautiful 2 ct H&A EGL Israel RB. It is graded G SI1. I think it is a low G or possibly a high H in color, but since H was the lowest I was willing to go, and I went in knowing that the color grading could be a little soft, I still saved money and got a beautiful stone that I love. I don''t know anything about IGI, though.

 

[JSM]

I have an IGI ideal from Kay. It was overpriced and the customer service at Kay is atrocious, but the diamond itself is beautiful. Totally eyeclean (VS2) and hard to see inclusions at 10x, accurately color graded (G), and is every bit as beautiful as my ACA (I see gorgeous arrows in the right lighting and under my Whiteflash viewer). Scores 1.2 on the HCA.

Not that I would recommend buying from Kay, I've had way too many issues, but I am very very happy with the diamond itself. My poor fiance paid too much, though!

 

[oldminer]

The labs in question often get nicer merchandise to grade which tends to go into the top grades sold by larger retailer chain merchants. These labs have problems with Internet shopping which favors GIA and AGSL and you just can't fight this acceptance. The reason retailer chains use these other labs is mostly for speed of service, customized grading reports and low cost per stone.

Many of us do regular work for major chains at VERY low prices per stone, often under great pressure to deliver on a time line which is nearly impossible. GIA and AGSL would have no desire to do work in this manner, but there are many labs competing for this relatively low paying but reasonably still lucrative work. This work is often done with a lot of expertise and integrity depending on the lab and its supervision. Most of the merchandise is rather on the low end, but usually each retail chain has a higher grade which demands pretty accurate grading. It isn't all that tricky to produce accurate, low cost reports, but when you are used to getting the cream of the business there is little temptation to go after the less rewarding, volume oriented work. That's what is going on.

 

[ssharma1121]

My ering stone is from EGL Israel. We knew EGL was off on color when we went for the stone. We requested a J or better stone. The certificate says H, but it''s a strong J. I love my ring and the stone, so it is possible to get a good EGL. The stone was ideal cut and a VS1 as stated on the report. So EGL Israel does at least receive some nice stones, even if the color is off.

In counterpoint, my previous ering stone was graded by EGL Turkey. I had no idea that EGL even had a branch in Turkey! I emailed EGL international about the stone not being found in their records. They said they had not graded the stone, so they couldn''t tell me anything. I think it looks bad when the overall company disavows any knowledge of one of their reports.