Does anyone know what VVS means?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Maybe HoF are on to something?
A NEW GENERATION is getting engaged and starting their jewelry collections – yes, it’s those Millennials again – and so it’s time for a different kind of ad campaign. Hearts on Fire, which proclaims its product The World’s Most Perfectly Cut Diamond, is going full steam ahead by unleashing a multimedia campaign next month in top fashion and bridal magazines, TV, digital and social media that says something much different about diamonds than has traditionally been said in the past.
click for the entire article
http://instoremag.com/homepage/shin...kes-up-the-traditional-with-new-campaign.html

But it's still aimed at "RB's" only......

Different? How so?
By offering perfection which we all know doesn't exist in Diamond cuts?

I was not supporting HoF choice of diamonds to market etc Yoram - I was hailing their approach to marketing to Millenials - a topic discussed as a market weakness earlier in this thread.

 

[diagem]

Maybe HoF are on to something?
A NEW GENERATION is getting engaged and starting their jewelry collections – yes, it’s those Millennials again – and so it’s time for a different kind of ad campaign. Hearts on Fire, which proclaims its product The World’s Most Perfectly Cut Diamond, is going full steam ahead by unleashing a multimedia campaign next month in top fashion and bridal magazines, TV, digital and social media that says something much different about diamonds than has traditionally been said in the past.
click for the entire article
http://instoremag.com/homepage/shin...kes-up-the-traditional-with-new-campaign.html

But it's still aimed at "RB's" only......

Different? How so?
By offering perfection which we all know doesn't exist in Diamond cuts?

I was not supporting HoF choice of diamonds to market etc Yoram - I was hailing their approach to marketing to Millenials - a topic discussed as a market weakness earlier in this thread.

I understand that Garry, still hailing Millenial marketing by a specific company that offers one simple taste doesn't seem to me as innovative or something in that region, that's just me thinking out loud....

After so many years at the helm I would expect more from HoF

 

[gr8leo87]

Does anyone else feel that there should be more generic marketing from DeBeers et al to drive value in the mind of millenials? And specifically that diamond value has taken a beating after DeBeers discontinued their Diamonds are forever marketing campaign and that now the competition is much more fierce among the luxury products for those last remains of a consumers disposable income?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Does anyone else feel that there should be more generic marketing from DeBeers et al to drive value in the mind of millenials? And specifically that diamond value has taken a beating after DeBeers discontinued their Diamonds are forever marketing campaign and that now the competition is much more fierce among the luxury products for those last remains of a consumers disposable income?

I think what Yoram is alluding to needs to e covered off first.
without newness and innovation diamonds are dying a natural death - why would young people want the exact same product as their grandparents?\
Where are the new results of new technology that led to improvements in diamond appearance?
Where are the custom designed diamonds?
Where are the affordable diamonds with open transperant markets and supply chains?
etc

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Does anyone else feel that there should be more generic marketing from DeBeers et al to drive value in the mind of millenials? And specifically that diamond value has taken a beating after DeBeers discontinued their Diamonds are forever marketing campaign and that now the competition is much more fierce among the luxury products for those last remains of a consumers disposable income?

I think what Yoram is alluding to needs to e covered off first.
without newness and innovation diamonds are dying a natural death - why would young people want the exact same product as their grandparents?\
Where are the new results of new technology that led to improvements in diamond appearance?
Where are the custom designed diamonds?
Where are the affordable diamonds with open transperant markets and supply chains?
etc

I agree that the diamond industry needs to evolve. But I don't think you will see it happen in the cohesive, coordinated way that would we might like to see it. After all, it is has been "de-regulated" only recently after decades of top down control. Decentralization has disruptive effects and puts companies that are probably not very well equipped to deal with it, in a scramble for positioning. And as gr8leo87 mentions, there is suddenly a big vacuum in collective marketing. There is plenty of individual marketing and various brands competing for attention, but that results in a fragmented overall message that doesn't resonate. I agree with Yorams take on the HOF campaign : updated to the look and feel of the mellenial, but really just more of the same. Doesn't look like any game changer to me.

But I see it a little different than Garry in that I do believe mellenials will embrace things their parents and grandparents embraced provided they have the information, transparency of transaction, and confidence in purchase. I think one thing that may start to resonate with millenials is the concept of lasting value. They have been raised in a world where their "luxury purchases" become obsolete every 3 to 5 years.

But more needs to be done to structure that lasting value. Rappaport and Debeers have both promoted efforts to create exchanges where consumers could get predictable, fair liquidation values. If there is one "innovative" thing that would help our industry I believe it would be making rapid progress on this concept. It's not a sexy idea, but one that if accomplished could provide the underpinnings for a healthier future for the diamond industry.

 

[lxAsTrOxl]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

 

[Serg]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Are you by chance a male? Because I have worked for many years in a majority female field, and I can tell you, the younger women still desire and are thrilled with their diamond engagement rings. I have seen not one sign of that changing. The only difference I see is that the styles of the rings are involving pave and side stones more than the traditional plain solitaire.

 

[lxAsTrOxl]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Again, my response is merely to my social circle and I don't speak for everyone but price would be the determining factor for me to make purchases. There are other cheaper less authentic alternatives that are still beautiful and less than a fraction of the price and majority would not even know unless they examine them up close. Money is my only driving force.

 

[lxAsTrOxl]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Are you by chance a male? Because I have worked for many years in a majority female field, and I can tell you, the younger women still desire and are thrilled with their diamond engagement rings. I have seen not one sign of that changing. The only difference I see is that the styles of the rings are involving pave and side stones more than the traditional plain solitaire.

You guessed right, and in most traditional cases males do the buying and proposing so I feel we hold the keys to actual trigger pulling to buy, obviously the female's WANT plays a role but if you are a more logical couple you think more on the basis of NEEDS, and the point I'm making is that with the situation millennials are in now needs over rules want. People are putting off certain traditions because of historical precedence. As many of you here have echoed these sentiments, times are changing and the diamond market needs to adjust. Until you can come up with a way to make diamonds feel like a priority again diamonds will be on the back of my mind. And the way I feel you can make diamonds a priority is to make them more affordable.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Are you by chance a male? Because I have worked for many years in a majority female field, and I can tell you, the younger women still desire and are thrilled with their diamond engagement rings. I have seen not one sign of that changing. The only difference I see is that the styles of the rings are involving pave and side stones more than the traditional plain solitaire.

You guessed right, and in most traditional cases males do the buying and proposing so I feel we hold the keys to actual trigger pulling to buy, obviously the female's WANT plays a role but if you are a more logical couple you think more on the basis of NEEDS, and the point I'm making is that with the situation millennials are in now needs over rules want. People are putting off certain traditions because of historical precedence. As many of you here have echoed these sentiments, times are changing and the diamond market needs to adjust. Until you can come up with a way to make diamonds feel like a priority again diamonds will be on the back of my mind. And the way I feel you can make diamonds a priority is to make them more affordable.

Diamonds definitely are a want and never a need, but I can guarantee you that many more females have a greater desire for a diamond than you do! Whatever happened to romance? You can be practical to a point, and I don't mean that one has to get into major debt to buy a 2 ct diamond or anything like that, but you are thinking about your own priorities and not necessarily those of the typical young woman in love and hoping to be engaged to the one she loves. We see LOTS of young women on here helping search for and dreaming about their engagement rings.

 

[lxAsTrOxl]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Are you by chance a male? Because I have worked for many years in a majority female field, and I can tell you, the younger women still desire and are thrilled with their diamond engagement rings. I have seen not one sign of that changing. The only difference I see is that the styles of the rings are involving pave and side stones more than the traditional plain solitaire.

You guessed right, and in most traditional cases males do the buying and proposing so I feel we hold the keys to actual trigger pulling to buy, obviously the female's WANT plays a role but if you are a more logical couple you think more on the basis of NEEDS, and the point I'm making is that with the situation millennials are in now needs over rules want. People are putting off certain traditions because of historical precedence. As many of you here have echoed these sentiments, times are changing and the diamond market needs to adjust. Until you can come up with a way to make diamonds feel like a priority again diamonds will be on the back of my mind. And the way I feel you can make diamonds a priority is to make them more affordable.

Diamonds definitely are a want and never a need, but I can guarantee you that many more females have a greater desire for a diamond than you do! Whatever happened to romance? You can be practical to a point, and I don't mean that one has to get into major debt to buy a 2 ct diamond or anything like that, but you are thinking about your own priorities and not necessarily those of the typical young woman in love and hoping to be engaged to the one she loves. We see LOTS of young women on here helping search for and dreaming about their engagement rings.

Not denying any of that, but in this case majority over rules. And right now the majority isn't buying diamonds like they used to. At the end of the day these diamond businesses put aside wants and needs and look at the cold hard numbers...profits. If you're doing well then hey that's awesome! But that's never enough, and businesses want more, which is why this discussion is up for debate, how do they get the new generation to buy in and drive profit.

 

[yssie]

But I see it a little different than Garry in that I do believe mellenials will embrace things their parents and grandparents embraced provided they have the information, transparency of transaction, and confidence in purchase. I think one thing that may start to resonate with millenials is the concept of lasting value. They have been raised in a world where their "luxury purchases" become obsolete every 3 to 5 years.

I haven't read posts after yours yet, Bryan, because I had to respond as soon as I saw this.


I just celebrated my first 29th birthday (hopefully the first of many!), and from my perspective... this observation is dead on.
Gadgets, computers, phones, tech toys? Cost a boatload and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Cars? Cost a boatload and depreciate immediately, and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Houses? Cost a boatload and will be loved for exactly as long as it takes to find a newer, better job elsewhere; I'm not emotionally attached to my house (our first) in any way whatsoever.
Cameras, appliances? Certainly that Maytag at Home Depot isn't from the same stock as the grandparents' tank that's been running for four decades and is still going strong.
Luxe vacations? Delightful, and inescapably short-lived.
Purses, shoes, clothing? Can certainly last a long time with proper care, but are necessarily subject to wear and tear with use.

Art is the one thing that will last a lifetime - many lifetimes, with care and commitment to safekeeping. It's the one luxury item that can be purchased without concern of devaluation with use or imminent obsolescence. I consider jewellery a wearable form of art... china, flatware, glassware are forms of art... pictures, paintings, photos are yet more art... and the advantage beautiful diamonds set into classic designs have over trendy "millenial" pieces is exactly that same longevity. Diamonds will last forever - and the allure of Forever is even more irresistible when everything around you is transient.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

As important as it is to get the feedback of the new generation directly, it is also important to understand the culture of the society. Indeed, the culture of the species. People from earliest times valued gems and beautiful natural objects such as sea shells and feathers both as decorative and inspirational accessories. Millenials are a special generation no doubt, and will have particular sensibilities that will need to be understood and catered to. But I don't think mankind's affinity for beautiful natural objects is ending with this generation. And there are good reasons why diamonds are considered the king of gems.

Millenials, like the generations before them, will evolve over time and their economic circumstances and buying patterns will change as they age. They will develop different tastes and they will have more discretionary money to spend on things they like, not just what they need.

I am a member of the generation that came of age in the 1960's and 70's. It was also a time of great social change. Like all young people we were very idealistic and one of the big undercurrents was the rejection of the "establishment" and in particular money and material things. Fast forward to present times and this is the generation that fueled the stock market explosion, and spends lavishly on all kinds of expensive things that they don't need. I won't judge if this is good or bad, but I do think it is an indication that certain basic cycles tend to repeat themselves from generation to generation.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

But I see it a little different than Garry in that I do believe mellenials will embrace things their parents and grandparents embraced provided they have the information, transparency of transaction, and confidence in purchase. I think one thing that may start to resonate with millenials is the concept of lasting value. They have been raised in a world where their "luxury purchases" become obsolete every 3 to 5 years.

I haven't read posts after yours yet, Bryan, because I had to respond as soon as I saw this.


I just celebrated my first 29th birthday (hopefully the first of many!), and from my perspective... this observation is dead on.
Gadgets, computers, phones, tech toys? Cost a boatload and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Cars? Cost a boatload and depreciate immediately, and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Houses? Cost a boatload and will be loved for exactly as long as it takes to find a newer, better job elsewhere; I'm not emotionally attached to my house (our first) in any way whatsoever.
Cameras, appliances? Certainly that Maytag at Home Depot isn't from the same stock as the grandparents' tank that's been running for four decades and is still going strong.
Luxe vacations? Delightful, and inescapably short-lived.
Purses, shoes, clothing? Can certainly last a long time with proper care, but are necessarily subject to wear and tear with use.

Art is the one thing that will last a lifetime - many lifetimes, with care and commitment to safekeeping. It's the one luxury item that can be purchased without concern of devaluation with use or imminent obsolescence. I consider jewellery a wearable form of art... china, flatware, glassware are forms of art... pictures, paintings, photos are yet more art... and the advantage beautiful diamonds set into classic designs have over trendy "millenial" pieces is exactly that same longevity. Diamonds will last forever - and the allure of Forever is even more irresistible when everything around you is transient.

I couldn't agree more Yssie. And it is important to point out that diamonds are the most durable component of that wearable art.

I think if there was a more consumer friendly system for exchange/liquidation/recycling of diamonds, there would be more consumer confidence and therefore more willingness to "collect" (to borrow a concept from Serg's recent post).

And Happy Birthday to you! I can almost remember when I was 29. I think I had a great time. Maybe a little too good.

 

[yssie]

I'm always amused when people come onto a diamond forum to assert that diamonds are a useless commodity. It's not like anyone here would argue
Some people value enjoyment. Some people who value enjoyment find joy in rock climbing. Some people who value enjoyment find joy in admiring sparkly rocks. Some people who value enjoyment find joy in both. It takes all sorts!

I'm equally amused when people come onto a diamond board to assert that diamonds cost too much, darn it!! It's not like anyone here would argue that, either But it's of no use to fail to acknowledge some inconvenient truths... Diamonds certainly can be cheap. Macy's regularly advertises 1ctw studs for $500; diamond eternity bands are available on Etsy for under $200. The consumer drive for "bigger and better" isn't unique to this industry...

lxAsTrOxl, I think all social groups go through phases that largely dictate priorities - mine was where yours is right now a few years ago. In a few years you'll be in a different phase, with different priorities, and... maybe, just maybe, you too will feel differently about some luxuries


FWIW I don't consider coloured stones "alternatives" to diamonds when it comes to engagement rings: coloured stones, not diamonds, were the stars of the original tradition. Many are far more rare than diamonds - and it's worth noting that some are far more expensive, too.


Bryan Thank you! My birthday was actually back in June but I'm more than happy to re-celebrate for a few minutes I got to spend it with my wonderful PS friends at the Vegas GTG - doesn't get better than that

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just celebrated my first 29th birthday (hopefully the first of many!), and from my perspective... this observation is dead on.
Gadgets, computers, phones, tech toys? Cost a boatload and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Cars? Cost a boatload and depreciate immediately, and the one thing that's certain is that there'll be a newer, cooler version released in a year.
Houses? Cost a boatload and will be loved for exactly as long as it takes to find a newer, better job elsewhere; I'm not emotionally attached to my house (our first) in any way whatsoever.
Cameras, appliances? Certainly that Maytag at Home Depot isn't from the same stock as the grandparents' tank that's been running for four decades and is still going strong.
Luxe vacations? Delightful, and inescapably short-lived.
Purses, shoes, clothing? Can certainly last a long time with proper care, but are necessarily subject to wear and tear with use.

Art is the one thing that will last a lifetime - many lifetimes, with care and commitment to safekeeping. It's the one luxury item that can be purchased without concern of devaluation with use or imminent obsolescence. I consider jewellery a wearable form of art... china, flatware, glassware are forms of art... pictures, paintings, photos are yet more art... and the advantage beautiful diamonds set into classic designs have over trendy "millenial" pieces is exactly that same longevity. Diamonds will last forever - and the allure of Forever is even more irresistible when everything around you is transient.

I agree with your entire post. I don't buy $5000 purses because I prefer spending that kind of money towards heirloom jewelry. I also like china, sterling flatware, and visual art, but diamonds and platinum and certain gemstones have special appeal to me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

As important as it is to get the feedback of the new generation directly, it is also important to understand the culture of the society. Indeed, the culture of the species. People from earliest times valued gems and beautiful natural objects such as sea shells and feathers both as decorative and inspirational accessories. Millenials are a special generation no doubt, and will have particular sensibilities that will need to be understood and catered to. But I don't think mankind's affinity for beautiful natural objects is ending with this generation. And there are good reasons why diamonds are considered the king of gems.

Millenials, like the generations before them, will evolve over time and their economic circumstances and buying patterns will change as they age. They will develop different tastes and they will have more discretionary money to spend on things they like, not just what they need.

I am a member of the generation that came of age in the 1960's and 70's. It was also a time of great social change. Like all young people we were very idealistic and one of the big undercurrents was the rejection of the "establishment" and in particular money and material things. Fast forward to present times and this is the generation that fueled the stock market explosion, and spends lavishly on all kinds of expensive things that they don't need. I won't judge if this is good or bad, but I do think it is an indication that certain basic cycles tend to repeat themselves from generation to generation.

Very true, Bryan!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

 

[Serg]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

Garry,

Lets discuss firstly statement:

" in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child."


You know that we see some fundamental problems in such presents based on RBC triple EX.:

"Currently in the mass market, the dominance of the similarly excellent round cuts and the general practice of spending two or three monthly salaries on an engagement ring make diving into the diamond world tricky for newbies; all that can be changed for their next diamond purchase is the price. Should the diamond commemorating a first child’s birth be more or less expensive than the engagement diamond? Going for a less expensive round looks demotional, while a more expensive one will most likely not be affordable for a young family."

Is any Good answer ?

 

[Serg]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

re:Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling

1) Do you speak about divorce per 1000 people? this rate are falling in USA for 3 mains reason:
a) ageing of population
b) decreasing number of marriage ( in absolute numbers!!)
c) several USA states stopped published statistic for divorce ( so you can not compare data for 1980 with data for 2000-2015)
2) Did you check statistic in China? divorce rate rose on 1.5% in last 10 years( in absolute numbers it could be bigger than number marriages in USA!)
3) better to consider divorce ratio to marriage .
4) See chart for EU.
main risk for engagement diamonds business is marriage statistic . Diamond industry has to change business model ASAP.

 

[AdaBeta27]

misc. thoughts:

... in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child...

I'm in the USA. I'm a Protestant, raised by Protestants. And I can't think of one woman on either side of my family who ever received a diamond for the birth of a child! "Push presents" just don't happen in my world. I can't even recall any woman in my family ever saying she'd received any piece of jewelry for having a baby. Maybe it's a Catholic thing? Or maybe it's just not in the Scotch-Irish Protestant culture? I don't know. But when I joined PS, I was truly floored by all the women on here who got some expensive diamond jewelry item just for having a baby.


Marriage rate for millennials: There's no doubt that marriage rates have dropped. Just look at the ghost town LIW forum now, compared to how lively it was in 2004-2007. Going by what I see there, and what I see all around me in a rural area, today's males are very evasive and they resist marriage and commitment. Many of today's single women have one or two children out of wedlock and they keep those babies. Many males don't want a woman who has a ready-made family in tow, so those women have cut themselves out of a lot of potential husbands by having and keeping babies out of wedlock. Assuming that these women aren't buying themselves diamonds, that's a decline in the number of engagement rings that will be sold in USA. And it might be permanent, that many women won't get even that .25ct - .5ct diamond engagement ring. They won't be gifted any ring with a substantial diamond in it!

Which brings me to my own personal beef: The way the diamond industry has continued to marginalize the unmarried woman who purchases diamonds for herself. I joined PS back in 2004, after I'd divorced, because I was planning to buy a diamond for myself. I didn't want an engagement ring look, so I looked at the then-new halos, which is what I ended up purchasing. I looked for dinner ring / cocktail ring settings, but nobody was making them. 11 years later, there still has not been much done to market non-engagement styles to single women. There was the "right hand ring" campaign, but yanno, maybe some of us singles have realistically given up on the remarriage prospects, and we're going to wear big diamonds on BOTH of our hands, lol.

I feel sorry for the Millennial women who want a diamond ring and can well afford to buy themselves a ring, but they are waiting around, hobbled by the specter of "If I buy myself this ring as a single, I might surpass what my SO / boyfriend / potential suitor can afford to put on my hand, so I can't buy a diamond ring for myself." Or, they worry about potential suitors thinking that they are vain or extravagant, or the dreaded "SELFISH!" for buying themselves such an expensive trinket. Women in the USA are greatly pressured and indoctrinated to be self-sacrificing and altruistic, much more than men are. I don't know how you (diamond industry) can tactfully work both sides of the street, pushing diamonds for purchase by single women without offending the men who are probably the majority buyers. But I think you are missing some opportunities there, because today's men are avoiding marriage in record numbers, and many women still continue to crave a diamond ring, especially if they have hit that older 20s / early 30s mark and have good careers and financial security enough to purchase a luxury item for themselves.

 

[Serg]

misc. thoughts:

... in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child...

I'm in the USA. I'm a Protestant, raised by Protestants. And I can't think of one woman on either side of my family who ever received a diamond for the birth of a child! "Push presents" just don't happen in my world. I can't even recall any woman in my family ever saying she'd received any piece of jewelry for having a baby. Maybe it's a Catholic thing? Or maybe it's just not in the Scotch-Irish Protestant culture? I don't know. But when I joined PS, I was truly floored by all the women on here who got some expensive diamond jewelry item just for having a baby.


Marriage rate for millennials: There's no doubt that marriage rates have dropped. Just look at the ghost town LIW forum now, compared to how lively it was in 2004-2007. Going by what I see there, and what I see all around me in a rural area, today's males are very evasive and they resist marriage and commitment. Many of today's single women have one or two children out of wedlock and they keep those babies. Many males don't want a woman who has a ready-made family in tow, so those women have cut themselves out of a lot of potential husbands by having and keeping babies out of wedlock. Assuming that these women aren't buying themselves diamonds, that's a decline in the number of engagement rings that will be sold in USA. And it might be permanent, that many women won't get even that .25ct - .5ct diamond engagement ring. They won't be gifted any ring with a substantial diamond in it!

Which brings me to my own personal beef: The way the diamond industry has continued to marginalize the unmarried woman who purchases diamonds for herself. I joined PS back in 2004, after I'd divorced, because I was planning to buy a diamond for myself. I didn't want an engagement ring look, so I looked at the then-new halos, which is what I ended up purchasing. I looked for dinner ring / cocktail ring settings, but nobody was making them. 11 years later, there still has not been much done to market non-engagement styles to single women. There was the "right hand ring" campaign, but yanno, maybe some of us singles have realistically given up on the remarriage prospects, and we're going to wear big diamonds on BOTH of our hands, lol.

I feel sorry for the Millennial women who want a diamond ring and can well afford to buy themselves a ring, but they are waiting around, hobbled by the specter of "If I buy myself this ring as a single, I might surpass what my SO / boyfriend / potential suitor can afford to put on my hand, so I can't buy a diamond ring for myself." Or, they worry about potential suitors thinking that they are vain or extravagant, or the dreaded "SELFISH!" for buying themselves such an expensive trinket. Women in the USA are greatly pressured and indoctrinated to be self-sacrificing and altruistic, much more than men are. I don't know how you (diamond industry) can tactfully work both sides of the street, pushing diamonds for purchase by single women without offending the men who are probably the majority buyers. But I think you are missing some opportunities there, because today's men are avoiding marriage in record numbers, and many women still continue to crave a diamond ring, especially if they have hit that older 20s / early 30s mark and have good careers and financial security enough to purchase a luxury item for themselves.

What is main for You a difference between cocktail diamond ring and engagement ring ?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

Garry,

Lets discuss firstly statement:

" in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child."


You know that we see some fundamental problems in such presents based on RBC triple EX.:

"Currently in the mass market, the dominance of the similarly excellent round cuts and the general practice of spending two or three monthly salaries on an engagement ring make diving into the diamond world tricky for newbies; all that can be changed for their next diamond purchase is the price. Should the diamond commemorating a first child’s birth be more or less expensive than the engagement diamond? Going for a less expensive round looks demotional, while a more expensive one will most likely not be affordable for a young family."

Is any Good answer ?

Hi Sergey,
The eternity ring (now called a push ring) was invented by De Beers in the late 1950's or 1960's because when Russia found diamonds many were small and they wanted a way to use them up without depressing prices. So they are bands that compliment rather than compete and should sit the other side of the Ering - Wedder on first, then Ering, then eternity band.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

misc. thoughts:

... in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child...

I'm in the USA. I'm a Protestant, raised by Protestants. And I can't think of one woman on either side of my family who ever received a diamond for the birth of a child! "Push presents" just don't happen in my world. I can't even recall any woman in my family ever saying she'd received any piece of jewelry for having a baby. Maybe it's a Catholic thing? Or maybe it's just not in the Scotch-Irish Protestant culture? I don't know. But when I joined PS, I was truly floored by all the women on here who got some expensive diamond jewelry item just for having a baby.


Marriage rate for millennials: There's no doubt that marriage rates have dropped. Just look at the ghost town LIW forum now, compared to how lively it was in 2004-2007. Going by what I see there, and what I see all around me in a rural area, today's males are very evasive and they resist marriage and commitment. Many of today's single women have one or two children out of wedlock and they keep those babies. Many males don't want a woman who has a ready-made family in tow, so those women have cut themselves out of a lot of potential husbands by having and keeping babies out of wedlock. Assuming that these women aren't buying themselves diamonds, that's a decline in the number of engagement rings that will be sold in USA. And it might be permanent, that many women won't get even that .25ct - .5ct diamond engagement ring. They won't be gifted any ring with a substantial diamond in it!

Which brings me to my own personal beef: The way the diamond industry has continued to marginalize the unmarried woman who purchases diamonds for herself. I joined PS back in 2004, after I'd divorced, because I was planning to buy a diamond for myself. I didn't want an engagement ring look, so I looked at the then-new halos, which is what I ended up purchasing. I looked for dinner ring / cocktail ring settings, but nobody was making them. 11 years later, there still has not been much done to market non-engagement styles to single women. There was the "right hand ring" campaign, but yanno, maybe some of us singles have realistically given up on the remarriage prospects, and we're going to wear big diamonds on BOTH of our hands, lol.

I feel sorry for the Millennial women who want a diamond ring and can well afford to buy themselves a ring, but they are waiting around, hobbled by the specter of "If I buy myself this ring as a single, I might surpass what my SO / boyfriend / potential suitor can afford to put on my hand, so I can't buy a diamond ring for myself." Or, they worry about potential suitors thinking that they are vain or extravagant, or the dreaded "SELFISH!" for buying themselves such an expensive trinket. Women in the USA are greatly pressured and indoctrinated to be self-sacrificing and altruistic, much more than men are. I don't know how you (diamond industry) can tactfully work both sides of the street, pushing diamonds for purchase by single women without offending the men who are probably the majority buyers. But I think you are missing some opportunities there, because today's men are avoiding marriage in record numbers, and many women still continue to crave a diamond ring, especially if they have hit that older 20s / early 30s mark and have good careers and financial security enough to purchase a luxury item for themselves.

What is main for You a difference between cocktail diamond ring and engagement ring ?

on AdaBeta behalf https://www.google.com/search?q=dia...ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIwOCugNy5xwIVxiKmCh33rwBo
Pretty much any diamond ring that does not look like an engagement ring or solitaire

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

re:Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling

1) Do you speak about divorce per 1000 people? this rate are falling in USA for 3 mains reason:
a) ageing of population
b) decreasing number of marriage ( in absolute numbers!!)
c) several USA states stopped published statistic for divorce ( so you can not compare data for 1980 with data for 2000-2015)
2) Did you check statistic in China? divorce rate rose on 1.5% in last 10 years( in absolute numbers it could be bigger than number marriages in USA!)
3) better to consider divorce ratio to marriage .
4) See chart for EU.
main risk for engagement diamonds business is marriage statistic . Diamond industry has to change business model ASAP.

interesting Sergey, Definitely the lower # of weddings should have an effect, although I think in Australia divorce need not be as a result of marriage breaking down. We have a 1 year rule here - you live with each other for a year and break up = divorce proceedings.

In Australia the divorce rate dropped from almost 3 per 100,000 to about 2.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...-fault-splits-introduced-20141211-1257qc.html

 

[Serg]

I'll be honest here, as having first hand knowledge of the millennial demographic, diamonds are mostly at the back of our minds at this time. Many of my friends are more concerned with finding full time employment that provides the financial resources they need in order to pay off those costly school loans, move out of their parents basement/apartments, or start/pay off a mortgage. A commodity like diamonds doesn't sit too well with us as a piece of rock that will be used more for superficial reasons, we'd rather spend just as much or less on a vehicle. Many of my friends have also adopted the concept of using other gem stones etc in place of diamonds. Now i'm not trying to pass any of this off as fact, but merely opinion and personal experience. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

It's great to have your perspective in this discussion. I totally hear you on the other priorities at your stage of life in terms of where you spend your money. But thinking down the road, what things do you think would be necessary for you to feel inspired to purchase a diamond, (say for other purposes than bridal)?

Sergey while I largely concur and agree about your slides, a couple of things are important.
1. Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling - look it up (a few exceptions are where new laws made divorce easier).
2. Erings are part of a contractual societal expectation, as well as a girly WANT as has been well explained in this thread. Diamonds are not useless to many - they are essential, but in terms of desirability I think they are loosing ground to things that are disposable. Maybe there could be a relevant re-interpretation of Diamonds Are Forever that somehow incorporated into newness and innovation and all the things we here on PS would love to see more of (like the new cut developments discussed in the Marquise thread https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rilliance.215394/page-2#post-3916634#p3916634 )
3. in US, UK and Australian society anniversary presents are a big part of a jewellers sales, as are purchases at the birth of a child.
4. Divorce is great for business - we get to reset old Erings, sell new usually band styles for second weddings etc



Yssie, how many 29th birthdays do you think you can get away with?

re:Divorce rates almost everywhere in the developed world are falling

1) Do you speak about divorce per 1000 people? this rate are falling in USA for 3 mains reason:
a) ageing of population
b) decreasing number of marriage ( in absolute numbers!!)
c) several USA states stopped published statistic for divorce ( so you can not compare data for 1980 with data for 2000-2015)
2) Did you check statistic in China? divorce rate rose on 1.5% in last 10 years( in absolute numbers it could be bigger than number marriages in USA!)
3) better to consider divorce ratio to marriage .
4) See chart for EU.
main risk for engagement diamonds business is marriage statistic . Diamond industry has to change business model ASAP.

interesting Sergey, Definitely the lower # of weddings should have an effect, although I think in Australia divorce need not be as a result of marriage breaking down. We have a 1 year rule here - you live with each other for a year and break up = divorce proceedings.

In Australia the divorce rate dropped from almost 3 per 100,000 to about 2.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...-fault-splits-introduced-20141211-1257qc.html

Garry,
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

Australia divorce rate in last 2 decades dropped from 2.7 to 1.9. minus 0.8
but in same time Australian marriage rate dropped from 6.4 to 5.1. minus 1.3!
Less marriage, less divorce . it is easy to receive divorce level almost 0 just to stop marriage in few years.
ratio between marriage and divorce rates become Worse in Australia . It is main indicator.
one reason why marriage rate become less is ageing population.

Suppose you have 2 countries . in one country average lifetime is 50 years, in second country lifetime is 70 years.
both countries have have same number young people and same number marriages.
which country has bigger marriage rate?
Australia moved from 1st type country to 2d type country.
it reduced marriage ratio( of course it is not only one reason , but it is very important reason), low marriage ratio reduced divorce ratio.
real situation become worse , but politics says : " Divorce ratio become less, congratulations !'
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/0/1CD2B1952AFC5E7ACA257298000F2E76?OpenDocument

 

[gr8leo87]

May be the industry should market diamonds to the boyfriend for a happy girlfriend.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

May be the industry should market diamonds to the boyfriend for a happy girlfriend.

Out with the engagement ring and in with the "commitment ring".

The idea actually has merit from a marketing standpoint. There was/is such a tradition called the "promise ring". Maybe we need to circle back to that concept and build on it for a new era.