Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than this?

[Lookinghard]

Hi all,

I got my diamond appraised the other day and this was the result:




Just doing searches for other Firetrace results and I really don't see one that's better than the one above. Is this as good as it get pretty much?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Who did you get it appraised with? Many EGL Internationally graded diamonds have these firetrace things and IMHO the are frequently very inaccurate.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Well clearly it's low on fire

 

[Andelain]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

What are the rest of the specs on this stone? From the pics, the cut doesn't look all that great.

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

What are the rest of the specs on this stone? From the pics, the cut doesn't look all that great.

here are the rest of the images I have on that diamond. I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on this diamond. So any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Andelain]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

That's cut a lot better than the first pic would indicate. If it hasn't been damaged in the years since that AGS reprt was issued, it's a keeper.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

don't care much for fire trace. Annd perhaps have an independant appraiser check its the same diamond in the same condition as on the old AGS cert

 

[akoakoako]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

looking at the idealscope and asset its a keeper. I like it because the ideal scope is very red, not many white space. Great symmetry.

stupid question, is buying used diamond cheaper than new one?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I smell something not quite right.
You are nuts to buy this without an appraisers help.
The images do not appear to be all from the same stone

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I smell something not quite right.
You are nuts to buy this without an appraisers help.
The images do not appear to be all from the same stone

I have asked that the diamond be re-certified by AGS using their Platinum Diamond Quality document. That should give me a peace of mind that the stone is still performing as advertised and still meets the grading standards of today to be AGS ideal.

I'm not sure why the pictures look like they are from different stones. There could be a mix up when the vendor sent the photos. Or it may be the angle of the camera when the pictures are taken.

Am I completely covering my ass by having the diamond re-certified by AGS?

Thanks for all the help! This is one of the most important purchases I will ever make. I want it to be perfect.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I smell something not quite right.
You are nuts to buy this without an appraisers help.
The images do not appear to be all from the same stone

I have asked that the diamond be re-certified by AGS using their Platinum Diamond Quality document. That should give me a peace of mind that the stone is still performing as advertised and still meets the grading standards of today to be AGS ideal.

I'm not sure why the pictures look like they are from different stones. There could be a mix up when the vendor sent the photos. Or it may be the angle of the camera when the pictures are taken.

Am I completely covering my a$$ by having the diamond re-certified by AGS?

Thanks for all the help! This is one of the most important purchases I will ever make. I want it to be perfect.

Good to hear.
if this stone is coming from a trusted vendor like those who list on Pricescope then well and good.
If it is from eBay or JoeBlow, then still have it sent to an appraiser before it goes to you because I seriously smell a rat.

 

[Andelain]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I smell something not quite right.
You are nuts to buy this without an appraisers help.
The images do not appear to be all from the same stone

I have asked that the diamond be re-certified by AGS using their Platinum Diamond Quality document. That should give me a peace of mind that the stone is still performing as advertised and still meets the grading standards of today to be AGS ideal.

I'm not sure why the pictures look like they are from different stones. There could be a mix up when the vendor sent the photos. Or it may be the angle of the camera when the pictures are taken.

Am I completely covering my a$$ by having the diamond re-certified by AGS?

Thanks for all the help! This is one of the most important purchases I will ever make. I want it to be perfect.

Where are you getting it from?

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

The "rest of the images" you have on the diamond on the first piece of paper don't match the numbers on the AGS report that you have. And EGL diamonds generally come with those firetrace things not AGS stones. So either you are messing with us, or someone is messing with you....

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

So I asked the seller about the images and he did mix up the ASET image from another diamond. Here is the actual one:




There is also some slight girdle painting:




Should I pass on this one or move forward with re-certifying with AGS? Any input would be greatly appreciated. As a consumer making one of the most important purchases of my life, I really just want to make sure I am getting the best product for my money.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I smell something not quite right.
You are nuts to buy this without an appraisers help.
The images do not appear to be all from the same stone

I have asked that the diamond be re-certified by AGS using their Platinum Diamond Quality document. That should give me a peace of mind that the stone is still performing as advertised and still meets the grading standards of today to be AGS ideal.

I'm not sure why the pictures look like they are from different stones. There could be a mix up when the vendor sent the photos. Or it may be the angle of the camera when the pictures are taken.

Am I completely covering my a$$ by having the diamond re-certified by AGS?

Thanks for all the help! This is one of the most important purchases I will ever make. I want it to be perfect.

Where are you getting it from?

From a dealer in Toronto Canada.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

read some of the very old threads about eightstar diamonds. This looks like one because of the painting.

this image matches the idealscope image.
the H&A's dont match this stone.

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

read some of the very old threads about eightstar diamonds. This looks like one because of the painting.

this image matches the idealscope image.
the H&A's dont match this stone.

Reading some posts on eightstar diamonds, they appear to be spectacular looking diamonds that command a heavy premium over other ideal cut brand name diamonds. Do you mean the diamond I have looks like that because of the painting? So in this case, the painting is a good thing?

I can't think of why Lazare painted the girdles when they cut it. The carat weight is not approaching a magical number and the face up value is already very large for its carat weight. Is it their efforts to create a diamond that looks more unique? Or maybe to make the girdle stronger because it is already very thin?

My seller made a HD video of the diamond here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMmzOVr4zo

 

[thediamondshopper]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Hi Gary, Lookinghard (John) and others,

You are absolutely right, we had 8 diamonds come in that day and unfortunately 2 Johns so all of the images got mixed up. Here are all the images for this diamond so that this gentleman and get an accurate opinion from you guys. From my comparing it to 2 other very high performing AGS 000s we got in that day I see no negative effects from the slight painting I will try to get up some diffused lighting pics when my day calms down to show this. Again sorry for the confusion, that will be the last time I batch process the images for our orders as this is what can happen.

I am leaning towards the possibility of an eightstar as well, this is one we ordered in so I wasnt able to get much info on it, but it was a tremendous value even considering the old cert.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3172032.htm?source=pricescope

Here is a very well cut 1.40, I color, VS2 stone. Compare this stone in looks and price to what you are considering and see what you think.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Hi Gary, Lookinghard (John) and others,

You are absolutely right, we had 8 diamonds come in that day and unfortunately 2 Johns so all of the images got mixed up. Here are all the images for this diamond so that this gentleman and get an accurate opinion from you guys. From my comparing it to 2 other very high performing AGS 000s we got in that day I see no negative effects from the slight painting I will try to get up some diffused lighting pics when my day calms down to show this. Again sorry for the confusion, that will be the last time I batch process the images for our orders as this is what can happen.

I am leaning towards the possibility of an eightstar as well, this is one we ordered in so I wasnt able to get much info on it, but it was a tremendous value even considering the old cert.

Thanks. The system works.
I think the buyer should have the capacity to compare a painted stone (which will have less contrast) with another well cut similar sized un painted stone. It is a matter of personal preference.
The main point to note is that painting is taken into account by AGS and they did not ding the stone.

MissGotRocks, if someone wants to buy from a store then I think its their choice and offering alternatives is not required (or fair) at this point since the vendor has answered the questions we raised.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Since when is comparison shopping not fair or unwarranted? It is you that raised red flags on the stone so I certainly would take a look around at similar stones. The poster never mentioned the price he was paying so it's also a good way to compare prices. If he likes the stone he posted and likes the price, he can certainly buy what and where he likes. If he likes it that well and is comfortable with the price for the stone, then this comparison will have no bearing on him.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Since when is comparison shopping not fair or unwarranted? It is you that raised red flags on the stone so I certainly would take a look around at similar stones. The poster never mentioned the price he was paying so it's also a good way to compare prices. If he likes the stone he posted and likes the price, he can certainly buy what and where he likes. If he likes it that well and is comfortable with the price for the stone, then this comparison will have no bearing on him.

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results/eEcBm4L5
I think it would help keep Pricescope to be considered free of shills if we all used the 'Copy Search URL' in the lower right of the search criteria window. In this case all the stones are from WF anyway
But do you get my point? It's democratic MGR

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Since when is comparison shopping not fair or unwarranted? It is you that raised red flags on the stone so I certainly would take a look around at similar stones. The poster never mentioned the price he was paying so it's also a good way to compare prices. If he likes the stone he posted and likes the price, he can certainly buy what and where he likes. If he likes it that well and is comfortable with the price for the stone, then this comparison will have no bearing on him.

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results/eEcBm4L5
I think it would help keep Pricescope to be considered free of shills if we all used the 'Copy Search URL' in the lower right of the search criteria window. In this case all the stones are from WF anyway
But do you get my point? It's democratic MGR

Yes, I get it but I was looking for a stone with similar size and specs. It just so happened to be this one. I use the search function at the top of the page for size and such and then check AGS stones as you usually won't be disappointed with the cut. Most women shop and compare - we've got to stretch the $$ a long way!

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

The price The Diamond Shopper got was better than most places I've searched along the lines of 1.3 - 1.45 ct, I, VS1-VS2, AGS0 diamonds. I think his supplier marked down the diamond because of the older certificate and the slight painting of the girdle. The Diamond Shopper was able to pass the savings on to me. If the painting doesn't affect the light performance, I can say this diamond is a very good value for the price.

A question for Gary and other experts: When this diamond was cut, why did the cutter paint the girdle? It doesn't seem to be to increase carat weight because it's not at a magical number and the face up dimensions is already very large for the carat weight. Was the cutter trying to get a specific look like the Eightstar diamond you mentioned? If so, wouldn't the painting be a positive attribute of this diamond?

 

[luvdajules]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

Hi OP, what is your price on the stone? I did not see it. I'm guessing it's around $8k though since you've mentioned it's a good price and an old cert (so it's a recycled stone from a trade in, I would guess). I'm sorry I can't answer your other questions as I'm a relative newb too. I'm curious to the responses, though.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

The price The Diamond Shopper got was better than most places I've searched along the lines of 1.3 - 1.45 ct, I, VS1-VS2, AGS0 diamonds. I think his supplier marked down the diamond because of the older certificate and the slight painting of the girdle. The Diamond Shopper was able to pass the savings on to me. If the painting doesn't affect the light performance, I can say this diamond is a very good value for the price.

A question for Gary and other experts: When this diamond was cut, why did the cutter paint the girdle? It doesn't seem to be to increase carat weight because it's not at a magical number and the face up dimensions is already very large for the carat weight. Was the cutter trying to get a specific look like the Eightstar diamond you mentioned? If so, wouldn't the painting be a positive attribute of this diamond?

Painting was a fad during the mid 90's to the mid noughites pushed by EightStar who I believe are now totally defunct.
They had many high profile promoters and associations, notably Al Gilbertson (now a GIA cut researcher), Marty Haske, and infact Peter Yantzer (AGSL) has one in his ring.
The idea is that you can remove almost all the leakage spots near the girdle, and since the whole concept came out of the Firescope(tm) which 8* founder Richard Von Sternberg (and I too) acquired in about 1984.
It was later shown that this comes at the expense of contrast. One of the best people to comment would be Sir John Quiotie, AKA John Pollard who I believe compared an 8* as one of the 3 stones that was part of PS history in a side by side test.
But the fact that AGSL did not ding this stone should indicate that it is OK.
Although some may say that GIA is tougher on painting.
Perrsonally it is a personal thing - many say the fire is more apparent in painted stones.
If anyone wants to dig around there is heaps of info available here and in the Journal articles.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I am leaning towards the possibility of an eightstar as well.

Those are horribly taken Hearts and Arrows images and I even question whether they belong to the stone with those ASET and Idealscope images.

If those badly taken images and are of the actual diamond it 100% cannot be an Eightstar or even close.
Eightstar diamonds were cut to a very high optical standards and very tight tolerances, not wonky optical symmetry.
In addition and even more telling the lower girldle facets on an Eighstar are short and in a hearts image there would be no seperation between the V and the tip of the heart.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

In addition and even more telling the lower girldle facets on an Eighstar are short and in a hearts image there would be very little seperation between the V and the tip of the heart.

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t

I am leaning towards the possibility of an eightstar as well.

Those are horribly taken Hearts and Arrows images and I even question whether they belong to the stone with those ASET and Idealscope images.

If those badly taken images and are of the actual diamond it 100% cannot be an Eightstar or even close.
Eightstar diamonds were cut to a very high optical standards and very tight tolerances, not wonky optical symmetry.
In addition and even more telling the lower girldle facets on an Eighstar are short and in a hearts image there would be no seperation between the V and the tip of the heart.

I don't think he is saying that it IS an Eightstar diamond. I think he is agreeing with Gary that this may look like an Eightstar diamond due to the girdle painting.

This diamond seems to be cut by Lazare Kaplan inc. in early 2006, when painting of the girdle was more popular due to the Eightstar. Reading this article by John Pollard:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

It appears that "the most common uses of painting & digging are 'swindling strategies' " to save carat weigh to a commercially important value and/or to affect the girdle thickness grading.

However, a third reason is: "Relative to crown-only painting: To acquire desirable visual properties. A measure of crown-only painting on 'superideal' diamonds can improve the diamond's brightness and increase the amount of visible broadfire dispersion."

Since the diamond in question is nowhere near a commercial important point, the first reason to paint seems unlikely. The second reason to paint is unlikely as well since the girdle thickness is nowhere near 'very thick'.

So that leaves us with the last reason, which is to improve the brightness and dispersion. Looking at the microscope pictures of the painted girdles, it appears that only the crown is painted slightly. This leads me to believe that this is the most likely reason for the girdle painting.

I saw this stone with the Diamond Shopper and compared to three other AGS ideal stones and this one sparkles just as much if not more than the others. I think The Diamond Shopper and I really found a 'gem ' here. The price is around $9k USD. For an ideal cut, 'I' colour, VS1 and face up value of 7.25mm, I'm very happy with the find.

Just for an additional peace of mind, this diamond is going to be re-certified by AGS. Thanks for all the valuable input I received on this thread. They were invaluable!

Also a big thank you to The Diamond Shopper. Despite the honest mistake of mixing up the diamond images, he's been very upfront about everything. I felt like he really looked out for my best interests and patiently answered all my questions and concerns.

 

[Lookinghard]

Re: Does a Megascope/Firetrace result get much better than t




Wow, those ASET images are so similar!