Home Doctors please advise: Brother experimenting with brain drugs

[HopeDream]

Hi,

My brother has been importing and experimenting with Piracitem lately and has become quite antsy and impulsive. I know it''s not likely to kill him in the short term, but I''m anxious that it could have detrimental effects on his long term brain chemistry. He''s unfortunately also using "vaporized"marjuana fairly regulairly(daily?) as well (as college kids do) and has been well warned by me of the medical and legal repurcussions of that drug.

He has been taking the piracitem in conjunction with cholines as piracitem aparently uses up acetylcholine. He''s also been taking numerous health supliments and vitamins etc.

He''s generaly a smart kid but selectively reads articles on the internet that jive with his veiwpoints.

He claims that "Doctors in Russia recomend Piracitem to their patients" and that it''s the cure for many neurological disorders but "Big Pharma won''t do clinical trials on it and bring it to North America because they wouldn''t make any money on it" (The usual bogus "wonder drug" argument that''s used for everything "they" (doctors medicle establishment etc.) don''t want you to know about)

I''m a little worried that too much stuff in his body could damage his liver, or make some sort of physiological change that will require lifetime treatment with perscription drugs.

Any Information/advice you could give would be most helpful.

It seems a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Thank you!

 

[PumpkinPie]

I''m not a dr. - but how old is your brother?

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Kama is a toxicologist, perhaps she can comment.

 

[HopeDream]

Thanks for the replies!

My brother is 18, will be 19 in a month. He''s in that head-strong "becoming a man" stage.

 

[iheartscience]

If your brother is one of those people who think the medical establishment is keeping things from them to keep them unhealthy, information from doctors probably isn''t going to change his mind. Have you told your parents what he''s doing? Maybe they can get through to him by cutting off his $, calling the cops on him for using illegal drugs, etc.

Also, I think it''s pretty funny that someone who apparently wants to enhance their brain function smokes weed regularly. Marijuana isn''t really known for making people smarter. Have you asked him how he''s worked that one out in his head?

 

[LabRatPhD]

Hi HopeDream,

I am not a medical doctor or clinician but a 4th year PhD student in neurobiology. I work on brain neurobiology with regards to addiction behaviors.

The biggest risk your brother runs is physiological addiction to Piracitem. Generally what happens in healthy individuals is chemical dependence due to arborization neurons in response to the drug. It appears the mechanism of action of this drug is not well known, so it is difficult to say with certainty that dependence on the drug would occur. It is never a good idea to mess around with neuro-related drugs because of the nature of how the brain architecture can change, usually not for the better.

I agree with Thing2of2 about finding ways to cut him off. The marijuana is not as big a deal. It is known to be the least addictive and doesn''t really change neuronal function permanently. The Piracitem is kind of scary, especially because the mechanism of action is not well known. Who knows what long-term effects it could cause.

Good luck!

 

[HopeDream]

Hi again

Thing2of2 : My parents know about his activities and are at a bit of a loss. He has a job so is funding his own experimentation, and I'm actualy not that worried about his pot use - it's the piracitem I'm worried about, and it's perfectly legal to import for personal use. He's pretty much an adult now and there's not realy anything my parents can do except worry about him. Right now their just trying to say as much a part of his life as possible - hanging out with him and maintaining the family bond.

LabRatPhD: "The biggest risk your brother runs is physiological addiction to Piracitem. Generally what happens in healthy individuals is chemical dependence due to arborization neurons in response to the drug. It appears the mechanism of action of this drug is not well known, so it is difficult to say with certainty that dependence on the drug would occur. It is never a good idea to mess around with neuro-related drugs because of the nature of how the brain architecture can change, usually not for the better"

This is exactly what I'm worried about!!

I've told him that the body tends to homeostasis and that he could permanently alter his neurochemistry, but he doesn't seem to care. I've tried to explain that just because a drug works to heal sick people doesn't mean that it's good for healthy people. All the studies that he's shown me have been with people with brain injuries and I tell him it's not the same thing, but he refuses to understand. I hope he gets through this phase quickly and unscathed.

I realy don't like that the mechanism of the drug is unknown.

Thank you all for showing concern! - mostly I just wanted to be sure that I'm not getting upset over nothing. I consider myself to be fairly open minded when it comes to letting people live their own lives, But my gut feeling on this one is that the off-lable use of piracitem is not a good thing.

He's also convinced my mother (who is already on a cocktail of depression and ADD medication) to take it. - I made her go talk to her pharmacist to be sure that it won't have any negative reactions with what she's taking.

Ugh... what has happened to a healthy sense of caution?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

You have the right to be concerned. When someone self-medicates it is an indicator of a much larger problem. Unfortunately there is not much you can do. Your brother is an adult and I think he knows that he is participating in risky behavior. Hopefully this is a phase. If not hopefully he will reach his bottom quickly. It is difficult to accept but you are powerless over your brother and the drugs he is taking. I know this is easier said than done but the best thing you can do is detach yourself.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I''m sorry you''re in the middle of this situation HopeDream.. it sounds so stressful..

 

[iheartscience]

Does your brother live with your parents? If so, they can kick him out. If not, maybe they can talk to a substance abuse counselor about what to do? Or maybe try to find an Al-Anon meeting? Sorry you''re dealing with this-hopefully your brother will wise up soon.

 

[sparklyheart]

Date: 4/12/2010 12:52:47 PM
Author: thing2of2
If your brother is one of those people who think the medical establishment is keeping things from them to keep them unhealthy, information from doctors probably isn''t going to change his mind. Have you told your parents what he''s doing? Maybe they can get through to him by cutting off his $, calling the cops on him for using illegal drugs, etc.

Also, I think it''s pretty funny that someone who apparently wants to enhance their brain function smokes weed regularly. Marijuana isn''t really known for making people smarter. Have you asked him how he''s worked that one out in his head?

My thoughts exactly!

Also, why is he taking a med to cure neurological disorders when he doesn''t have one (at least I''m guessing)? Many of the drugs used to treat neurological disorders have awful and sometimes permanent side effects..They are meds that you don''t want to take unless you have to so that your symptoms are not so bad. Unfortunately many "kids" who like to experiment with different drugs don''t realize that once you mess up your brain you can''t always turn back the clock. I''m sure you know all of this though..you sound very informed.

If he''s 18/19 then he''s probably not going to listen to much that anyone has to say, unfortunately! If he doesn''t see anything wrong with his lifestyle then getting him into counseling could be very difficult. You may try talking with a counselor to see what your family can do to help him.. Maybe they can give you suggestions for how you can talk to him or how you guys can stage an intervention.. How long has he been taking this? I''m guessing from your level of concern that it isn''t just a one week type of thing that he is going through.. Good luck with everything. This sounds like a tough situation.

 

[kama_s]

HH brough this thread to my attention today, sorry I didn't get to respond until now (I just got home from work).

HopeDream, you have every reason to be concerned about your brother (mis)using the drug in question. As it would be with any medication, exposure without prescription and monitoring is not advisable - and with this particular compound the risks are even higher because of the lack of info available. Labrat shared some of her insight wrt to the neuropharmacology of the drug, but just some other points:

- I'm guessing he's using it to increase memory/cognition? Studies have actually shown the drug does NOT do much to improve either. The reason why it isn't in use in NA is because studies showed limited effectiveness of the drug, and other drugs are more potent to treat diseases that affect memory, learning etc (such as Alzheimers).
- I doubt it would affect the liver. Piracetam is not broken down by the liver and excreted unchanged by the kidney (i.e., it doesn't need any pathway to be flushed out of the system, so fewer opportunities to cause any liver/kidney damage). Although, I wouldn't share this with your brother

- His antsy-ness IS caused by this drug. Piracetam is known to cause hyperstimulation (which is essentially what the drug is all about). So expect to see him be irritable, restless, sleepless, nervous etc. Another side effect is confusion - this is one I'm most concerned about. You wouldn't want him to drive impaired.

I would bring this up with your parents or someone else who has higher authority on your brother. He's experimenting, and I'd be concerned with him upping his dose or moving to more potent drugs down the road. Speaking to a physician can also help, they might refer him to a therapist to help him with his (in my opinion) self-destructive behaviour.

 

[HopeDream]

Maevie, Hudson_Hawk, Thing2of2, LabRatPhD, Tacori E-Ring, Sparkleyheart, and Kama_S thank you all for your wisdom, support and information

.

I’ll look up a bunch of abstracts that show no significant improvement in cognition and dig up some on side effects and maybe he’ll listen? (I don’t think that he’s had the time to actually look at the articles)

This has been going on for a month or two now, and I hope that he’ll lose interest in it soon. I've had several frank conversations with my parents, sister, BF etc. and none of us have come up with a clear answere for what to do. My dad brought up counseling, but my brother will have nothing to do with it.

He’s on this huge self-improvement kick right now. He’s also involved in:

Speed Reading: He read that the eye can see a whole page and so the subconscious can actually pick up all the words – he hopes to get to 10,000 words per minute. He’s doing an online speed reading course.

Eye exercises: He has glasses and has read that eye exercises can bring back 20/20 vision. He will be done his first online eye exercise course soon and is going to purchase another for $400

Mental cognition improving games: He pays for monthly access to the lumosity.com brain training games which are supposed to enhance mental cognition etc. and uses other programs and websites as well.

Bi-neural beat meditation tracks: He listens to (has purchased?) several different bi-neural beat listening tracks (asynchronous beats are played into each ear and it’s supposed to change your brainwaves, enhance consciousness etc.

I would say he’s the opposite of self destructive, but he’s trying so hard – maybe low self esteem?

I told him that sometimes people self-medicate if they have depression and asked him if he had been feeling depressed, but he said no.

The funny thing is that he is a confirmed atheist and absolutely does not believe in any higher power, but he’ll believe any pseudo-scientific nonsense as long as it sounds vaguely plausible and there’s “science behind it”.

Currently he’s interested in a girl who’s a psychology major and so I think that’s definitely fuelling his obsession with “the infinite plasticity of the human mind and the power of the subconscious”.

He’s also excessively chatty much of the time and definitely doesn’t sleep enough (but does nap frequently) and might not eat enough.
I’m worried that his impulsiveness and high-strung nature are going to annoy his co-workers and get him fired.

He’s taking a ton of other vitamins and herbal supplements, and I hope to get a list of those just to make sure they’re not overly toxic.
Slightly obsessive behaviour does run in the family so I shouldn’t be surprised that it’s coming out in him.

Thanks for listening to me blather on. I love my brother a lot and I worry about him sometimes. If there are any new developments I’ll keep you posted.

Many many thanks!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 4/13/2010 1:14:54 AM
Author: HopeDream
I''ve had several frank conversations with my parents, sister, BF etc. and none of us have come up with a clear answere for what to do. My dad brought up counseling, but my brother will have nothing to do with it.

The only thing you can do (regarding your brother) is nothing. He is an adult and you cannot make him get help unless he is honest, open and willing. The only thing you can do is focus on yourself and set boundaries. If your parents feel strongly about it they can set the boundary that he can only live with them if he is sober. Be careful though. The problem with boundaries is they HAVE to be enforced! They should not be set to "save" him but for the safety and sanity of the person setting them. He needs to find his own way in life. I am studying to be a substance abuse counselor (for what it is worth) and I know first hand the pain of watching someone you love self-destruct. The best thing you can do is focus on yourself. Like Thing2of2 mentioned I would also suggest either an al-anon meeting or better yet a nar-anon meeting (since he is having drug related issues). The meetings and literature will teach you the tools you need to live/love your active (or dry) loved one. Often times when the family gets help and starts living in the *solution* rather than the *problem* their addicted loved one tends to be inspired to get help. Good luck.