Do You think Student Loans Should be Forgiven?

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Hi,

I am of two minds here. I know so many young people are over burdened with this debt that the future, which should have been bright, is clouded with this debt.
I think i would be OK with forgiveness of $10,000. Do you think that would help, or is it not enough.?

Annette

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm all for forgiveness of this debt. An educated society is an enlightened society, and the amount of debt that people have to incur in this country to get an education is one of the top few most appalling things about our country, in my opinion. I believe that a lot of the craziness out there - such as people who think 9/11 was a hoax - boils down to a lack of education. It's an essential ingredient in a functional society, imo, and getting it shouldn't be such a crazy challenge to people who have few resources and even less experience (i.e. young people, mostly).

 

[Karl_K]

nope, they made the choice to go to an expensive school they can pay for it. They want the benefits and not pay the cost.
I struggled to pay mine back why should I pay someone else's?

 

[Queenie60]

Absolutely not, We paid for our children to be educated - what do you tell the parents and students who have recently struggled and did all they could to pay their tuition? I say that the colleges need to be evaluated and should cut the excess expenses from the tuition. And, colleges should grant discounts and waive the tuition - this should not be a burden on the taxpayers.

 

[autumngems]

No, what is that telling those who struggled and paid their debt off? Delay payback a bit perhaps but not forgive it.

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

I think after a certain threshold, perhaps. Maybe have a requirement like “if you haven’t paid your loans off after 20 years” or “you have to pay 60% minimum of the loan before you get forgiveness”. But I am skeptical. I paid for college myself. I worked hard, and my dad helped. But I have lazy, unmotivated family members who made bad choices and ABSOLUTELY deserve their 100k in debt for a fluffy degree. They deserve to suffer the consequences of their decisions. They go “but it’s not faaaaaaair that I have to pay it back”. Too bad buddy, you signed up for it. Do your time. Can you tell I’m bitter?? Ha

 

[MamaBear]

No. They chose to take on the loans, they can pay for them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

No, what is that telling those who struggled and paid their debt off? Delay payback a bit perhaps but not forgive it.

Yep, will I get a refund for paying our daughters tuitions?

 

[Dancing Fire]

But I have lazy, unmotivated family members who made bad choices and ABSOLUTELY deserve their 100k in debt for a fluffy degree. They deserve to suffer the consequences of their decisions. They go “but it’s not faaaaaaair that I have to pay it back”. Too bad buddy, you signed up for it. Do your time. Can you tell I’m bitter?? Ha

 

[Musia]

No. I think there should be fewer colleges as well as fewer programs offered to young people. My daughter got her bachelor's degree at the University of California, Berkeley. Anthropology. Good thing she didn't go further so it was easier to pay her debt off. Now she continues to teach children how to play violin, she started teaching kids at the young age of 16 (almost 17). Makes decent money because she is a good teacher and a nice person. No any degree in music! Society shouldn't pay for young people's irresponsible/bad choices. How many artists, musicians, singers, writers, composers with college degrees our society needs? Education is a very good and important thing, any person could and should get educated using free libraries, free internet and taking private lessons they are able to pay for. My husband studies the history of Rome for free and composes music, he bought a super expensive studio and 2 guitars. He is 58y.o. When he was very young, his dream was to be a professional musician but he also wanted to have a family and be a good provider.

 

[Matata]

The more pertinent question is how to make education more affordable or free.

 

[ShinyPink]

The problem is inequity. The rich can pay the high tuition rates. Why should rich kids only be able to afford top schools? Then there are the lower income/first time college students in the family who receive oodles of scholarships and aid, making their education affordable. What about all the other students?

It's also hard to get into schools that cost less because of all the competition, and depending on the major, it's cutthroat!

We have got to do better!

 

[kenny]

Hell no!

 

[kenny]

The more pertinent question is how to make education more affordable or free.

Free = higher taxes.
Voters don't like that.
Politicians want votes.

 

[Matata]

I know @kenny. Why on earth would we do something that helps some in the short term and many in the long term. It isn't the American way. Politicians understand the benefits to them of an uneducated electorate.

 

[UrsTx]

I enjoyed reading the different viewpoints. I went to a state, public university in the early 90s. My major was advertising and I was very passionate about it in school. But after college I “fell” into nonprofit accounting (long story) , loved it and have continued on that path instead. My parents saved and paid for my BA - always told me the first degree is on them and additional degrees/higher education are at my own expense.

I believe, though, that Junior college/trade school should be at no tuition if the program is successfully completed. I support skills that will fill jobs, entry level accounting, entry level nursing, nursing home/dental assistants, electricians, plumbing, construction, etc.

Once that person is earning an income, they can decide to take on debt to pay for an even higher education.

 

[Musia]

We had free education in the USSR. It was rather a privilege. After "high school" graduation only 6-7 of my classmates, including myself, started college (higher education). Other 23-24 young persons got jobs or started training in order to get a profession. Later in their life some of my classmates got degrees, but not right after high school.

I just checked, now Ukraine has many more universities, academies, colleges as well as many graduates with degrees who can't find a decent job. They still have a possibility to get free higher education however (study very hard in high shool).

I think we desperately need reformed public education as well as higher education here in the US, but not free college education for every one and not student's loan forgiveness.

 

[Bron357]

Here in Australia University is no longer free however the debt created is managed by the Tax Office and you repay once you start employment at a set rate of your salary.
Admission to nearly all Universities is on merit. Admission is competitive so school marks (mostly) determine entry score and whether or not you get selected into your chosen course. Being rich isnt part of the equation, except it might have meant a better private school education and a heap of coaching.
In fact, you can get extra points towards your “entry score” if you live in a lower economic group, are disabled, are of certain ethnicity etc. Its to help make higher education accessible to all.
I think this system is fair and works well. it’s “user pays” and the repayment rate isn’t excessive. The debt isn’t tranferable, if you die the debt does with you. If you never got a job after graduating or never earnt enough to break the repayment threshold, again, the debt gets wiped upon death.
Most importantly here in Australia health care is Government funded. Yes, we also have a private system which you pay for (covers non emergency, “choice” surgeries ie face lift medical treatments) but no one in Australia is denied health treatment and no one is bankrupted if they get seriously ill or injured.

 

[Jambalaya]

It's wrong that people have to struggle so much and pay so highly to get an education/pay for their kids to get an education.

The US must be about the only highly developed country in the world where healthcare and education cost SO MUCH. It's pretty weird when you think about it. If other countries can provide healthcare and education at a much more affordable cost, why can't we?

 

[westofhere]

Because

It's wrong that people have to struggle so much and pay so highly to get an education/pay for their kids to get an education.

The US must be about the only highly developed country in the world where healthcare and education cost SO MUCH. It's pretty weird when you think about it. If other countries can provide healthcare and education at a much more affordable cost, why can't we?

Because we spend 50% of our budget on defense. Surveys show that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes if they received in return the things more advanced countries get for theirs. Historically, dying empires always overspend on military, and, like us, borrow massively from more solvent nations to do so.

 

[MissGotRocks]

The cost of higher education is what really needs to come into play. We don’t seem to help educate our young or help elderly with advanced care. It benefits all of us to educate the young and have our elderly cared for as well.
However, for all students who have worked hard to pay off their debt or for parents (like us) who have worked and paid for their kid’s educations, forgiving current debt can’t be done fairly. There are more and more opportunities now to do coursework at community colleges in conjunction with state universities that will help lower the cost. Makes no sense to me to attend higher priced private colleges for an undergrad degree if you are attending on borrowed money.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Nope
That's not fare on those of us who didn't go to university or to those that did and have paid it back

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I look at this as comparable to the Financial Crisis of 2008. Society, which means business, Gov't, parents, concluded an educated work force was needed. So, in the 1990s colleges were able to offer low cost loans to students, at first, backed by rhe Gov't. Applications for admission rose and where demand rises tuition costs rise. Banks saw $$$ signs, and expanded loans for education to supplement Gov't loans programs,. Caring about the future of their children parents ran for the loans. No-one sees the whole system that has been created until 30 yrs later.

I blame them all. This , and housing, is a case of "Good Intentions gone awry". Yes, I blame everyone. The colleges are greedy as well. Remember how the Univ of Chicago professor cried that he couldn't manage on 250,000 a yr. The Professors got raises. And the banks just wait for opportunities like this.

I don't know if I would call these people making bad decisions. That piece of paper was a path to success. For the average middleclass guy, who hasn"t gotten a raise the costs of all this skyrocketed. Easy loan money is also the culprit.

Colleges, Banks, People all are part of this. And Gov't for the easy loans. All with Good Intentions.

Forgive a portion of it, I think. Its the gravy that was excess costs to the student.

Annette

Musia-- so nice to see you. I remember that good discussion with Voce you had.

 

[lissyflo]

Here in Australia University is no longer free however the debt created is managed by the Tax Office and you repay once you start employment at a set rate of your salary.
Admission to nearly all Universities is on merit. Admission is competitive so school marks (mostly) determine entry score and whether or not you get selected into your chosen course. Being rich isnt part of the equation, except it might have meant a better private school education and a heap of coaching.
In fact, you can get extra points towards your “entry score” if you live in a lower economic group, are disabled, are of certain ethnicity etc. Its to help make higher education accessible to all.
I think this system is fair and works well. it’s “user pays” and the repayment rate isn’t excessive. The debt isn’t tranferable, if you die the debt does with you. If you never got a job after graduating or never earnt enough to break the repayment threshold, again, the debt gets wiped upon death.
Most importantly here in Australia health care is Government funded. Yes, we also have a private system which you pay for (covers non emergency, “choice” surgeries ie face lift medical treatments) but no one in Australia is denied health treatment and no one is bankrupted if they get seriously ill or injured.

The system in the U.K. sounds fairly similar to that in Australia: loans are only repaid once you hit a minimum salary and any outstanding balance is written off after a certain number of years. At least I believe that’s still the case, the rules may have changed since it was last relevant to me.

I’m happy with that situation for two reasons: no-one knows what will happen in the future & a degree makes it more likely you can get certain jobs but it’s not a guarantee by any means. People may assess their likely financial situation and take loans on the basis of all information currently available to them but just get dealt a really bad hand of luck. The other reason is mobility as someone raised above. To broaden access and stop universities being the preserve solely of those who are wealthy enough, aren’t loans a necessity? But then you’re back to square one: the loan facilitates the degree and the degree then increases your chances of earning more (or earning more securely) but it’s not a future proof guarantee by any means. Anyone assessing the financial implications is playing the odds, not knowing for certain the cost vs benefit.

I do hope,however, that someone in our government monitors write offs by course/university/whatever other analytics seem relevant. If a significantly higher percentage of write offs relate to specific subjects or universities, then intervention needs to happen to ensure that public funds are only supporting write offs of genuine bad luck, rather than supporting subject choices that don’t ultimately benefit society as a whole or supporting institutions that don’t produce graduates who are desirable in the job market. But that opens a whole other can of worms in terms of what should be considered to benefit society in general!

(I also think that far too many people in the U.K. attend university. We need to improve and value vocational provision across the board. University should be for high level academic attainment, which by default implies, to me anyway, that 50% of children attending is too high.)

 

[ShinyPink]

Don't forget, the interest rate on federal student loans is set by Congress. It's higher than mortgage rates, which is total BS. (Yes, right now it's at zero, but that will soon change back to the old rates.)

The tax credit for tuition is so pathetic, it's almost funny. Again, the rich don't need it, and the amount is insulting. I really doubt Congress understands the costs of anything.

Tuition-wise, Stanford is $18k/quarter, UCLA is ~$13k in-state/year vs. $43k for out-of-state residents. Add housing, books, etc. to that. California State university tuition only is ~$2800/semester in-state vs. an additional $396/unit out-of-state (so $4700 for 12 units). However, state schools were created to serve their nearby community. Popular schools and those with impacted majors use a point system based on how close you live to the school, military experience, bilingual, test scores, experience in your preferred major, and in some cases it's down to the nearest hundredth of a grade point. Nursing is a joke to get into, it's so hard!

A good start is community college and then a transfer. You still are up against the above hurdles though.

My friend's daughter moved to Germany for medical school. It's FREE!!!!! Granted, doctors do not have the same earning potential there, but they also don't have the debt. Also, residents don't have the medical bills. The whole concept is very interesting to me.

I don't even care about the loan forgiveness. There's always something that's not fair to everyone. I would much rather see tax reform and Jeff Bezos and corporations paying real taxes, not some token amount.

 

[jaaron]

I don't think that this is a question with an easy answer. I do know that I'm very grateful we're in a position where we've been able to send our children out into the world without debt. My parents paid for my education (and I worked) but H had student loans from his MA and law degrees, and the need to pay them off certainly affected his choice of career afterwards. So certainly I think we need to do something to make going into public service-type jobs that require a professional degree affordable.

Also, not to make this political, but googling something like 'racial disparity in student loan debt' is extremely interesting--it really opened my eyes to inequalities post-education that make paying these loans off extremely challenging for certain groups of society.

Honestly, the UK system feels much more fair and balanced in many ways.

 

[Musia]

Musia-- so nice to see you. I remember that good discussion with Voce you had.

I am happy you remember me, it feels good to be back! Thank you Annette!

 

[wildcat03]

I took out massive students loans to put myself through medical school. My state medical school had far more acceptable/good candidates than available seats, so I was left with a few choices 1) turn down the private school I got into and hope I'd get into a state school in the future or 2) go to a private medical school. Since you have to disclose prior acceptances if you reapply, I chose option 2. I did so with my eyes wide open, but the cost of that education was close to the cost of a gut renovated, fully updated townhome in a medium cost of living city that I purchased when I was out of training.

The interest on my Federal loans was 6.8%, and on my grad plus loans I think it was in the high 8s - that is much higher than my house and significantly higher than my car loan when I had one. Early on, I made the decision to pursue Public Service Loan Forgiveness. This meant that as long as I worked for a non-profit or a government entity after graduation and made income-based payments for 10 years (120 payments) that I could get my loans forgiven. I estimate that I sacrificed about 2x my total forgiven amount in income by staying employed in academic medicine. I work with a highly disadvantaged, underserved population. I don't see my loan forgiveness as having been handed anything. It was written into the promissory note that I signed when I took out my first loans and I played by the rules and earned forgiveness.

 

[lizzydm26]

@wildcat03 you provided a service to your community for 10 years to have that debt forgiven. I don't see any problem with that at all.

I am not for blanket loan forgiveness.

My grad loans were also 6.8% and 8.4 or 8.8%. Which was extremely high at the time. I sacrificed and paid them off as a priority as fast as I could.

I think the focus should be the reduction of college education expenses to being with.

 

[Slickk]

I took out massive students loans to put myself through medical school. My state medical school had far more acceptable/good candidates than available seats, so I was left with a few choices 1) turn down the private school I got into and hope I'd get into a state school in the future or 2) go to a private medical school. Since you have to disclose prior acceptances if you reapply, I chose option 2. I did so with my eyes wide open, but the cost of that education was close to the cost of a gut renovated, fully updated townhome in a medium cost of living city that I purchased when I was out of training.

The interest on my Federal loans was 6.8%, and on my grad plus loans I think it was in the high 8s - that is much higher than my house and significantly higher than my car loan when I had one. Early on, I made the decision to pursue Public Service Loan Forgiveness. This meant that as long as I worked for a non-profit or a government entity after graduation and made income-based payments for 10 years (120 payments) that I could get my loans forgiven. I estimate that I sacrificed about 2x my total forgiven amount in income by staying employed in academic medicine. I work with a highly disadvantaged, underserved population. I don't see my loan forgiveness as having been handed anything. It was written into the promissory note that I signed when I took out my first loans and I played by the rules and earned forgiveness.

You have more than paid off your loans! Bravo!