Do you get your dog vaccinated for Lyme?

[Puppmom]

At our dog''s annual check-up the vet was really pushing us to get him vaccinated for Lyme disease. When we adopted our dog, our breeder was against it. In her opinion, the risks far outweighed the benefits. I would like to not give him anything that I don''t have to but I''m really on the fence. We live in southeastern PA so we DO have a lot of ticks. However, I have a short hair breed and, in his 2.5 years, we have only removed 2 ticks and we think we caught them early as they came off pretty easily. According to the vet, a tick would have to be on the dog for 24 hours in order for him to even be exposed.

I''m torn because I''ve tried reading the research and it all seems so conflicting! I asked her why they''re pushing it all of the sudden and she said that they''ve been routinely vaccinated for Lyme in a lot of areas of the country but there are a few prominent professors in the area (mostly at UofPenn) that were against it so that''s what they taught their students. Not having seen any issues in the areas of the country where they do routinely vaccinate along with the high incidence of Lyme locally, apparently caused local vets to come around.

Anywway, I''m confused and I don''t know what to do! I just want to do the right thing for our dog...

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I understand your delimma because I was in the same situation as you with our dogs. I do belive that over-vaccinating is a bigger issue than under-vaccinationg and choose to titer my dogs annually after the initial puppy shots (puppy shots only included rabies, parvo and distemper--no kennel cough or lepto vaccines). Rabies is the exception, obviously, as that vaccination is required by law (and I would vaccinate them for rabies, anyway).

I live in an area that is ridden with Lymes cases. In the end, I decided to get the vaccination because I thought it was our best option. I checked with our vet to make sure he did not distribute the Fort Dodge vaccination--many dogs have had a bad reaction to the Fort Dodge Lymes vaccination. Instead I was please to hear they used Nobivac because I'd heard that very few dogs have a reaction to it.

And guess what? Our younger dog contracted Lymes anyway. This is why many people decide not to get the vaccination--it can have bad side effects and is often ineffective, anyway.

Since you are in an area that is known for Lymes, I understand why you're so torn. If you do decide to get it, I would caution against the Fort Dodge vaccination.

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 6/30/2010 3:25:00 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I understand your delimma because I was in the same situation as you with our dogs. I do belive that over-vaccinating is a bigger issue than under-vaccinationg and choose to titer my dogs annually after the initial puppy shots (puppy shots only included rabies, parvo and distemper--no kennel cough or lepto vaccines). Rabies is the exception, obviously, as that vaccination is required by law (and I would vaccinate them for rabies, anyway).

I live in an area that is ridden with Lymes cases. In the end, I decided to get the vaccination because I thought it was our best option. I checked with our vet to make sure he did not distribute the Fort Dodge vaccination--many dogs have had a bad reaction to the Fort Dodge Lymes vaccination. Instead I was please to hear they used Nobivac because I'd heard that very few dogs have a reaction to it.

And guess what? Our younger dog contracted Lymes anyway. This is why many people decide not to get the vaccination--it can have bad side effects and is often ineffective, anyway.

Since you are in an area that is known for Lymes, I understand why you're so torn. If you do decide to get it, I would caution against the Fort Dodge vaccination.

NEL, I have issues with over-vaccinating as well (ETA: To clarify, I mean issues with the idea of it). I actually haven't had my dogs vaccinated at all after their puppy shots were complete (early-mid 200. They're both now approximately 2.5 years old. I really don't know what the "safest" thing is for my dogs, but I know that I don't want/they don't need to be given the same vaccines over and over each year of their lives. I'm very lucky in the fact that they're extremely healthy dogs, I've had no problems with either one of them.

Do you get the rabies vaccine annually?

 

[Puppmom]

Thanks guys. It really is a tough decision. I think we tend to listen to our docs and vets because they''re the professionals but this just doesn''t sit right with me. I wish I were more educated on the topic. They really did try to *sell* us the vaccine at this visit so it caught me off guard.

Lily, I do get my vaccinated for Rabies every 2.5 years as proof is required to register him with the township and the fine is HEFTY. I also get him vaccinated for Bordetella. We didn''t at first but my poor guy has contracted Kennel Cough twice from the dog park.

It wasn''t life threatening obviously but I felt so bad for him.

NEL, we know people who have a dog that was vaccinated and contracted Lyme anyway as well. I''ve also read that the test for Lyme sometimes just indicates a dog has been *exposed* not that they necessarily have Lyme. In a dog with no symptoms, they can''t really tell. Sorry if this is totally inaccurate as I''m just regurgitating what I read - there''s so much info!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/30/2010 3:29:37 PM
Author: lilyfoot

Date: 6/30/2010 3:25:00 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I understand your delimma because I was in the same situation as you with our dogs. I do belive that over-vaccinating is a bigger issue than under-vaccinationg and choose to titer my dogs annually after the initial puppy shots (puppy shots only included rabies, parvo and distemper--no kennel cough or lepto vaccines). Rabies is the exception, obviously, as that vaccination is required by law (and I would vaccinate them for rabies, anyway).

I live in an area that is ridden with Lymes cases. In the end, I decided to get the vaccination because I thought it was our best option. I checked with our vet to make sure he did not distribute the Fort Dodge vaccination--many dogs have had a bad reaction to the Fort Dodge Lymes vaccination. Instead I was please to hear they used Nobivac because I''d heard that very few dogs have a reaction to it.

And guess what? Our younger dog contracted Lymes anyway. This is why many people decide not to get the vaccination--it can have bad side effects and is often ineffective, anyway.

Since you are in an area that is known for Lymes, I understand why you''re so torn. If you do decide to get it, I would caution against the Fort Dodge vaccination.

NEL, I have issues with over-vaccinating as well (ETA: To clarify, I mean issues with the idea of it). I actually haven''t had my dogs vaccinated at all after their puppy shots were complete (early-mid 200. They''re both now approximately 2.5 years old. I really don''t know what the ''safest'' thing is for my dogs, but I know that I don''t want/they don''t need to be given the same vaccines over and over each year of their lives. I''m very lucky in the fact that they''re extremely healthy dogs, I''ve had no problems with either one of them.

Do you get the rabies vaccine annually?

The rabies vaccine we get every 3 years, I believe.

Puppmom, I think I know what you are talking about with the "exposure" to Lyme. I think the test is for the Lyme antibodies, so if they test positive for the antibodies, then they assume they''ve been exposed to the Lyme. When our dog was tested, he had no symptoms whatsoever, so we had a second test done to determine the level of antibodies in his system and they were relatively low, meaning that we caught it very early, possibly before the Lyme ever really got into his system, if that makes any sense.

 

[waterlilly]

I do not do the lyme vaccine, one of my dogs actually has it, had it when we adopted her. i have all of them tested annualy, however. How often is your dog outside - and are they out for long periods? If you are able to do a tick check of your dog daily, and make sure you us a tick preventative, I do not see the need for the vaccine.

Lillyfoot - where do you live? Rabies is not a vaccine to skip - if only for legal reasons. In the states you have to have your dog vaccinated in order to register your dog with your town. If your dog were to be bit by an animal that is a known rabies carrier (racoon, fox, etc.) or bite someone and not be vaccinated, you'd be in for a lot of trouble.

Your vet actually sees your dog and knows it isn't vaccinated?! You do take it in for a yearly check, don't you? Do you have it checked for worms and heartworm tested yearly? These things can show zero symptoms for years yet slowly kill your pet, they need a yearly exam for good reason.

 

[Puppmom]

NEL, so how do you *treat* a dog with antibodies but no symptoms? Did your vet recommend anything?

Waterlily, our dog is outside often - he''s a total sunbather

and we walk him about 2 hours a day. We do use a tick preventative year round and check him for ticks. He has short, lightish colored hair so they''re pretty easy to find usually.

I''m leaning toward no vaccine - at least for now, unless I''m convinced it''s better for him to do it than not.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 6/30/2010 4:45:09 PM
Author: puppmom
NEL, so how do you *treat* a dog with antibodies but no symptoms? Did your vet recommend anything?

Waterlily, our dog is outside often - he''s a total sunbather

and we walk him about 2 hours a day. We do use a tick preventative year round and check him for ticks. He has short, lightish colored hair so they''re pretty easy to find usually.

I''m leaning toward no vaccine - at least for now, unless I''m convinced it''s better for him to do it than not.

We treated him just as we would for Lyme--4 weeks of doxycycline.

Waterlily, you make a good point about the annual checkups. We have titers done every year in addition to the lyme/anaplasmosis/etc. testing, heartworm testing and general checkup. I would never recommend somebody simply not vaccinating and that''s it--if a person isn''t going to vaccinate the titers are absolutely necessary. And the rabies vaccination is required by law, but is also very serious and something I wouldn''t vaccinate for. Also, you can''t titer for Lyme, which is one of the reasons we decided to get it.

 

[Puppmom]

Freak! Vet called this afternoon to say our dog tested positive for Lyme and they''ll let us know the percentage of antibodies tomorrow. Apparently, anything under 30% is considered to be insignificant.

I can''t help but feel like there''s something weird going on. I called my girlfriend and my mom and both of their dogs recently tested positive. Do you think they''re just overreacting and that most dogs have been *exposed* to some degree?

 

[soocool]

Puppmom,

I too live in southeastern PA and my dog has never been vaccinated against Lyme disease. Our vet has never brought up the issue either since our dog gets a monthly flea/tick treatment. Also I keep him on heartworm meds all year long so there is no need to a yearly blood test.

Also, if your dog is microchipped you can get a lifetime dog license, at least here in Bucks County.

Regarding Lyme disease, I am quoting from the Merck/Merial Manual for Pet Health:

The signs of Lyme Disease vary. Many animals can have Lyme Disease and show no signs. In dogs, the most common signs include fever, loss of apetite,painful or swollen joints, lameness that progresses from mild to severe, swollen lymph nodes, and lethargy. If Lyme disease is left untreated it can lead to damage in the kidneys, nervous sytem, and heart.

The diagnosis of Lyme disease is often based on the signs and the history. Antibodies against the disease-causing bacteria can often be detected 4-6 weeks after the initial infection and help confirm the diagnosis. Antibiotics are required in all cases of Lyme disease (usually for 2 to 4 weeks).

Vaccines in dogs appear ro work best when given to dogs before they are exposed to Lyme causing bacteria.

 

[Puppmom]

Soocool, I think you''re right. I''m in Montco and I actually think all that''s required for a lifetime license here is that your dog is neutered. We didn''t realize that until AFTER we registered him this year...maybe next time.

I wish this were more black and white. Our dog definitely isn''t showing any of those symptoms and hopefully he doesn''t. I''m guessing the *levels* that we get tomorrow will help us decide how to proceed. I didn''t realize that the effectiveness of the vaccine is compromised if your dog already has antibodies.

Wouldn''t it be nice if we could just take our vet''s word and just do what they say? Ah, that would be so much easier.

 

[monarch64]

I''m very confused about the frequency rabies vaccinations should be given. I always thought it was one that absolutely had to be done yearly, but a friend of mine who has dogs and works for the DNR (total animal lover, very into the health of her dogs as far as diet and vaccines) told me a few months ago that it''s every three years. I''ve read things here and there that make me think she''s right. I''d call my vet and ask right now but they''re closed, so I thought I''d bring it up in this thread.

Daisy has had a rabies vac yearly, along with bordatella vac, heartworm pills, and frontline in the warm months. I will not be doing the Lyme vac, as I keep a very close watch on her after walking her or letting her off leash and since she has light colored, short fur the few ticks she''s had have been easily spotted and haven''t had a chance to get to her skin yet. I don''t have her on a chemical free diet and I feel like I''m already exposing her to all this other stuff with the vaccines and frontline.

 

[bee*]

Date: 6/30/2010 8:48:22 PM
Author: puppmom

Wouldn''t it be nice if we could just take our vet''s word and just do what they say? Ah, that would be so much easier.

Maybe find a new vet? As someone who has 18 months left until I''m a qualified vet and has worked for the past 6 years in a small animal clinic, if you think your vet is trying to screw you over in regards to vaccines, then find one that won''t. Not every vet is there to make you part with your money.

 

[Puppmom]

Bee, I hear ya. I really do love our practive but, generally speaking, it seems like they''re blowing this Lyme thing way out of proportion. I''ve talked to a couple of people since and this seems to be common amoung vets locally (southeastern PA). They keep saying it''s up to us but there''s definitely a hint (well, more than a hint) of *you should really get this vaccine* going on. I just wish I knew enough to make a decision with confidence, KWIM?

Congrats on being so close to becoming a vet! So, may I ask? What''s your opinion on the vaccine?

 

[lilyfoot]

Date: 6/30/2010 4:29:37 PM
Author: waterlilly
I do not do the lyme vaccine, one of my dogs actually has it, had it when we adopted her. i have all of them tested annualy, however. How often is your dog outside - and are they out for long periods? If you are able to do a tick check of your dog daily, and make sure you us a tick preventative, I do not see the need for the vaccine.

Lillyfoot - where do you live? Rabies is not a vaccine to skip - if only for legal reasons. In the states you have to have your dog vaccinated in order to register your dog with your town. If your dog were to be bit by an animal that is a known rabies carrier (racoon, fox, etc.) or bite someone and not be vaccinated, you''d be in for a lot of trouble.

Your vet actually sees your dog and knows it isn''t vaccinated?! You do take it in for a yearly check, don''t you? Do you have it checked for worms and heartworm tested yearly? These things can show zero symptoms for years yet slowly kill your pet, they need a yearly exam for good reason.

waterlily, I do live in the U.S., and I am well aware of everything you wrote above. I am certainly in no way, shape, or form, going to sit here and defend the way I choose to raise my dogs to you, or anyone else. They are the healthiest, happiest dogs that I know, so I must be doing something right

 

[Puppmom]

Just to update everyone - vet called and said Hollis has less than 10% detectable antibodies in his system. She basically told me what I found out here and in my research - that the test just detects EXPOSURE not actual illness and only about 10% of dogs who are exposed actually get the illness. She thinks we don''t need to take any action at this time. We asked about the vaccine and she said she still recommends it because the flea and tick treatment is not 100% but that it''s not necessary.

I felt way better about this conversation - she didn''t come off as an alarmist this time and there was no pressure about the vaccine.

I still don''t know if we''ll get him vaccinated or not but I don''t feel any pressure to make a decision quickly.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Does anyone know if there are different vacc schedules based on drug maker? After reading this thread I really think my vet practice is over vaccinating.

We board our dog several times a year and literally every time we go they tell us we need another vaccine. Sure they may only be $10-$15 shots and we want to keep our pup as healthy as possible, but then you tack on a $40 office visit to give him the shot and it gets really expensive really fast. And for some reason they''re never able to do them all together and they have it staggered over the year so we get hit with separate office visit charges for each test/shot.

They tell us he needs on an annual schedule (he''s 2 years old BTW): rabies, bortadella,Canine Da2PP and Heartworm/Lyme/Erlichia test.

 

[bee*]

Date: 7/1/2010 9:48:24 AM
Author: puppmom
Bee, I hear ya. I really do love our practive but, generally speaking, it seems like they''re blowing this Lyme thing way out of proportion. I''ve talked to a couple of people since and this seems to be common amoung vets locally (southeastern PA). They keep saying it''s up to us but there''s definitely a hint (well, more than a hint) of *you should really get this vaccine* going on. I just wish I knew enough to make a decision with confidence, KWIM?


Congrats on being so close to becoming a vet! So, may I ask? What''s your opinion on the vaccine?

Thanks puppmom! I live in Ireland and Lyme disease isn''t a problem here so I don''t know how the vaccines work and how regular they should be given. Maybe call another clinic and just see what there protocol is and compare to your own clinic.

 

[bee*]

Date: 7/1/2010 2:49:31 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Does anyone know if there are different vacc schedules based on drug maker? After reading this thread I really think my vet practice is over vaccinating.


We board our dog several times a year and literally every time we go they tell us we need another vaccine. Sure they may only be $10-$15 shots and we want to keep our pup as healthy as possible, but then you tack on a $40 office visit to give him the shot and it gets really expensive really fast. And for some reason they''re never able to do them all together and they have it staggered over the year so we get hit with separate office visit charges for each test/shot.


They tell us he needs on an annual schedule (he''s 2 years old BTW): rabies, bortadella,Canine Da2PP and Heartworm/Lyme/Erlichia test.

Over here we give two vaccines as puppies (usually 8 weeks and 10 weeks)- DHPPi and Lepto are given at each (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and lepto). At 1 year they''re given a booster of the same and then each year after that they tend to alternate between DHPPi and Lepto. Normally every three years they''ll get both together again. Kennel cough is usually only given here if the dogs are going to be boarded at a kennels or if they are walked in an area where there is a high incidence of it.

 

[Prana]

Yes, we did vaccinate for this because it is very easy to get in the area we live, and we have a lot of woods, therefore, a lot of ticks.

 

[Prana]

I think it should depend on your dog, too. My dog is outside a lot, in the woods with us a lot, etc. On the flip side, my parents have a lap-dog who goes outside for walks several times a day, but doesn''t really do heavy-duty outside time, so they don''t have him vaccinated.

 

[CourtLynB]

My mom just took my dog to the vet, and they said they wanted to give her the new Lyme''s vaccine. But I have to make an appointment for 3 weeks out and bring in a stool sample. I actually work in the pet industry, managing a couple OTC healthcare lines and I''m on the fence. I need to do some research before I make the appointments. My dog gets her shots/vaccines when she''s due and except for some mange when she was a baby (it passed in the blood from her mom) and colitis, she''s been very healthy. I keep her on heartworm year round, which is very important, as well as the flea and tick preventative. One reason I would consider the Lymes vaccine is because I live on Long Island and we go to the beach a lot. Tick heaven over there, and my dog loves to wander into the beach grass. Plus, I can''t always see the ticks on her black spots, even though she always gets a bath after our beach outings.