Do you ever feel bad that you are getting married when others can''t?

[nkarma]

(I know this is a really controversial subject so I hope this doesn''t get heated. I just feel SUPER bad.)

It is actually putting a whole downer on the situation. I was looking into domestic partnerships instead but apparently they discrimanate there as well cause you have to be gay or over 62 in CA to get one and it does not have a lot of the rights of marriage. I need to even figure out what these rights are and if I want/need them. One thing is I am probably going back to school next Fall and I would like to be on his company''s health insurance. We will have to look into whether we can do that unmarried or not. We aren''t having a religious marriage. I just want to stand in front of my close family and friends and vow to be partners and spend the rest of our lives making each other happy.

I feel like I am doing something wrong by the fact that I am taking advantage of something that others can''t. It''s like someone is offering me a free lunch but says to the person next you, you can''t have one cause they are *fill in the blank* How wrong is it to take that lunch? Why do I get the free lunch for being straight, white, female, whatever, I didn''t chose any of those things any more than the person next to me?

I am actually feeling guilty for getting married!! I feel like if I don''t do anything though I am the living my favorite quote "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

 

[sctsbride09]

I would not say I feel guilty for being married, (or having the ability to), but that I feel deeply sad that some people are unable to get married because of stupid political crap. To me, I dont care who you are, if you and another human being decide to commit to each other why should it be ANYONEs business? Including the government..My uncles have been together over 15 years, Ive seen their relationship outlast MANY married couples, why should they not be allowed to be married? Sorry end vent. I know that my uncles feel happy for us from the bottom of their hearts, I just wish the same could happen for them.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I did feel a little guilty since I am part of the LGBT community as a bisexual, and I have many many friends who are not allowed to marry their partners which makes me really sad. And to be honest, I wasn''t even really sure I wanted to be married since I myself am not religious, and I didn''t know if I wanted to be part of an institution that discriminated against people I loved.

But my LGBT friends were so supportive about my being engaged! They even came to my wedding even though it was at a Catholic church! They reminded me that gay rights isn''t about denying or abolishing marriage, but to make it available to everyone. Just because they didn''t have the right, didn''t mean they wanted to take away one of mine! In fact they were all thrilled for me.

So don''t feel guilty! Just keep speaking up for what you believe in and trying to change public opinion so that one day we can all get married!

 

[sonnyjane]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:04:57 PM
Author: sctsbride09
I would not say I feel guilty for being married, (or having the ability to), but that I feel deeply sad that some people are unable to get married because of stupid political crap.

I think that sums up my opinion best. Equality is really important to me, and living in SoCal where this is a huge issue, I make a point to donate to groups promoting marriage equality.

 

[jstarfireb]

Yup, I can''t say guilt is necessarily what I feel, just sadness and anger when I think about how people are prevented from getting married. I haven''t done anything in support other than joining facebook groups and the like (which I realize does little other than show my solidarity to my friends). What do you guys think is a good organization to donate or volunteer for in support of marriage equality?

 

[nkarma]

I guess guilty may or may not be the right word.

My question is, is it right take an advantage of right that is not offered to all simply because we are in the majority?

I have seen some great suggestions for a situation like this which is to instead of registering have guests donate to marriage equality. I wasn''t planning on asking for/suggesting gifts at all since I am doing a DW. I did volunteer before the Prop 8 vote here in CA. I need to keep volunteering, I know.

 

[sonnyjane]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:40:23 PM
Author: nkarma
I guess guilty may or may not be the right word.


My question is, is it right take an advantage of right that is not offered to all simply because we are in the majority?


I have seen some great suggestions for a situation like this which is to instead of registering have guests donate to marriage equality. I wasn''t planning on asking for/suggesting gifts at all since I am doing a DW. I did volunteer before the Prop 8 vote here in CA. I need to keep volunteering, I know.

I just want to say I applaud you for even acknowledging this. I think it''s easy to vote against something when you''re not directly affected by the outcome. Don''t let feelings of guilt ruin your special day, but continue doing what you can for this issue!

 

[katamari]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:40:23 PM
Author: nkarma
I guess guilty may or may not be the right word.


My question is, is it right take an advantage of right that is not offered to all simply because we are in the majority?

The unfortunate part of it is that straightness in and of itself comes with so many privileges that individuals could not even deny them if they wanted to because of how ingrained they are into the everyday practices of our culture. I personally do not see it as an issue of the ability of individuals with various sexual identities/behaviors to marry or not, but the ability of these various identities/behaviors to be accepted and validated in the cultural landscape. Because it is so much more than individual decisions, I do not think that my (or anyone else''s) decision to marry or not will impact this. Instead, I try to focus my actions in other ways. DH and I did, though, wed in a country that allows same- and mixed-sex marriages, and it did influence our decision on where to have our DW, even though, as Americans our DW would not be recognized in our state had we been same-sexed.

It certainly hurts my heart to see our nation repeatedly support intolerant, bigoted legislation. I also hope for the cultural shift that allows these laws to be properly identified as such, and do everything in my power to highlight that Prop8 and the like are examples of institutionalized discrimination. To me, this is more useful than making a statement through marrying or not marrying. From the LGBTQIA individuals I know and support, none harbor ill-feelings towards straights for marrying, they just want the same treatment and privileges. At the same time, though, I have several friends who are not marrying until it becomes open to everyone and I really commend them, even if I did not take this route myself.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Guilt, no. But the issues that GLBT community face are awful and I believe its everyones responsibility to stand up and be counted on when it comes to this issue.

 

[mayachel]

Where it bothers me most personally, is the guilt/hesitation I feel/felt talking to friends who are gay, that will be involved with our wedding. I feel sensitive to the fact that I''m asking them to celebrate something that is publicly up in the air for them. I don''t think they are actually bothered by "me" and "my wedding", but I also plan to use my own wedding service as a platform for making a statement about love and how fiance and I believe marriage and the rights that it grants should be available for everyone.

 

[jen2M]

We are actually putting something about it in our program-- it will read like this:

We share this day together with our friends and family, looking forward to a time when all may be able to share in the bond of marriage. Until that day comes, we joyfully join our lives and our love with a special appreciation for those who are unable to do the same by law, but do so by living every day of their lives with the ones they love and cherish.

 

[Lilac]

Date: 11/5/2009 5:20:35 PM
Author: sonnyjane

Date: 11/5/2009 5:04:57 PM

Author: sctsbride09

I would not say I feel guilty for being married, (or having the ability to), but that I feel deeply sad that some people are unable to get married because of stupid political crap.

I think that sums up my opinion best. Equality is really important to me, and living in SoCal where this is a huge issue, I make a point to donate to groups promoting marriage equality.

I think this sums up my feelings best as well. I never felt guilty about getting married myself - "guilt" about it never entered my mind. But I do absolutely feel saddened that not everyone has the opportunity to get married like I can.

 

[DearBuddha]

I don''t feel guilty for making a commitment to my DH, but I do feel infuriated that hypocritical politicians and constituents feel it necessary to bar others from experiencing the things many straight people take for granted.

I''m from Boston, which, I would argue, is one of the most liberal and accepting cities in the country. I''ve grown up with many, many gay and lesbian family members, friends, coworkers, and neighbors. When I look at a gay couple, I see two people in love, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. To me, love is love, and if you find it, you''d do well to hold onto it, others'' opinions be d*mned.

I lived in Southern California for a few years, during which I saw gay marriage legalized and revoked. I moved before Prop 8, with it''s hateful and prejudiced agenda, came into being. Nonetheless, when it was upheld in November, I was devastated. Literally, devastated.

I''ve seen my own family members move to Europe, simply so their marriage can be legally recognized/supported by a government. It''s horribly upsetting to me that we restrict who we can love in this country; "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and "your huddled masses yearning to be free" is all well and good, unless you''re talking about the gays.

It shouldn''t be left to a popular vote; the right to love and marriage are rights we ALL should be born with.

 

[Rock_of_Love]

I guess I never really looked at marriage in terms of the legalities of it all. I see it as a joining of two people who love each other and are committed to a life together...and, really, anyone can do that. Who says it is not a marriage? A church? The gov''t? Well, I''m not getting married in a church...and I''m not really into "organized religion" so, I don''t need them to tell me I''m married. And, as far as the gov''t is concerned...what benefits am I getting? I get to file a joint tax return? Woo hoo! So, I guess I don''t even know what my supposed "rights" are when I''m married, either. What else do I get?

My BF has been on my health insurance for the last 2 years as a "qualified adult"...all that was required was that we owned something jointly (credit card, car, house, etc.) and had resided together for a year (proof via utility bill). So, really, if I was gay, it easily could''ve been my lesbian partner who I added.

Maybe I am naive, but it seems like there are plenty of ways to be "married" as well as be legally protected in terms of joint assets, etc.

If a gay couple told me they were married, I wouldn''t question it for a minute...I wouldn''t say, "are you legally married?"...I would say, "congrats!"

But, absolutely, it is a total act of discrimination to not allow gay marriage. Honestly, I don''t see what the big fuss is over NOT allowing it. I completely do not relate to or understand ANY argument that the opposition poses. What possible harm can come from love?

Lastly, I saw "Milk" the other night, and was in TOTAL shock. I guess I have always grown up not thinking there is anything wrong with being gay, so the thought has NEVER crossed my mind to discriminate...but, I am amazed that as recently as the 70s (and probalby more recently) it was a completely different world!

 

[kas baby]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:25:39 PM
Author: DearBuddha
I don''t feel guilty for making a commitment to my DH, but I do feel infuriated that hypocritical politicians and constituents feel it necessary to bar others from experiencing the things many straight people take for granted.

I''m from Boston, which, I would argue, is one of the most liberal and accepting cities in the country. I''ve grown up with many, many gay and lesbian family members, friends, coworkers, and neighbors. When I look at a gay couple, I see two people in love, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. To me, love is love, and if you find it, you''d do well to hold onto it, others'' opinions be d*mned.

I lived in Southern California for a few years, during which I saw gay marriage legalized and revoked. I moved before Prop 8, with it''s hateful and prejudiced agenda, came into being. Nonetheless, when it was upheld in November, I was devastated. Literally, devastated.

I''ve seen my own family members move to Europe, simply so their marriage can be legally recognized/supported by a government. It''s horribly upsetting to me that we restrict who we can love in this country; ''life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'' and ''your huddled masses yearning to be free'' is all well and good, unless you''re talking about the gays.

It shouldn''t be left to a popular vote; the right to love and marriage are rights we ALL should be born with.

This is fantastic timing. My roommate and I just had this conversation yesterday. We both agreed that the gov''t is meddling where it shouldn''t be and going against what it is suppoesd to stand for.

I think people are afraid of what they don''t understand. I know a lot of ''straight'' couples who seem intimidated by ''gay'' or ''lesbian'' couples. its silly to me. It also makes me upset when people feel the need to disclose their sexuality. I don''t go around saying "Hi I''m so-and-so and I''m straight" and I certainly don''t expect people who are gay to tell me upon introducing themselves. It''s none of my business. I met up with a friend at a University football game and she was there with some friends already. We were introduced, chatted a little, and then they had to leave. RIGHT after they were out of ear shot, my friend turned to me and said ''oh by the way they''re lesbians from my bible study group.'' and she said it as if it was going to be her mission to ''fix them'' since it''s ''unholy'' to be gay. wtf.

I also get upset when people get treated differently after coming out. That really bothers me. One of the nicest guys I know recently came out and now most of our old friends talk behind his back- its ridiulous. They''ve known him since forever but now they suddenly have something against him? not cool.


as for your original question, I do not feel guilty. My aunt and her partner have been together for several years, have rings, and are planning on having a ceremony with close friends whether or not the gov''t will see it as legal. We will certainly be ther to support them. They are not mad at FI and I for being able to have a legalized marriage, they are just happy that we have somebody to love and be there for us.

seperation of church and state. what a bunch of false promises.

seems to be a lot of that getting dished out (I''m coming from a bitter place on that. MI promise scholarship was revoked, so now I have to pay MI for them not being able to hold up their end of the deal. BS.)

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 11/5/2009 9:41:42 PM
Author: jen2M
We are actually putting something about it in our program-- it will read like this:

We share this day together with our friends and family, looking forward to a time when all may be able to share in the bond of marriage. Until that day comes, we joyfully join our lives and our love with a special appreciation for those who are unable to do the same by law, but do so by living every day of their lives with the ones they love and cherish.

Aw, I really love that!

I watched a documentary on Same Sex marriage, and was surprised by how emotional I got. The thought that someone who loved their partner the way that I love FI would not be able to marry them just broke my heart, and I sat on the couch and cried.

I don''t feel guilty, but I do feel very deeply saddened. I won''t say more, in order to remain non-political.

 

[UnderBlue]

Date: 11/5/2009 10:29:06 PM
Author: Rock_of_Love
Lastly, I saw ''Milk'' the other night, and was in TOTAL shock. I guess I have always grown up not thinking there is anything wrong with being gay, so the thought has NEVER crossed my mind to discriminate...but, I am amazed that as recently as the 70s (and probalby more recently) it was a completely different world!

I remember Matthew Shepherd, the young man who was beaten and left strung up to die on a fence in Wyoming in the ''90s.

Just within the last year a gay bar was raided and people were arrested for no real reason in Texas I believe. The police even did it, I believe, on the anniversary of the Stonewall incident. That''s exactly the kind of crap that was going on in Harvey Milk''s time. It''s still going on now, though hopefully not as much and hopefully less accepted.

As for having rights, you''re lucky your BFs company allows you on his insurance etc. There are lots of companies that don''t allow it, same-sex or opposite-sex, or charge insane "non-relative" rates or tax it more than a married couple.

You mention several ways couples can make themselves have the same rights as a married couple without being married, but that''s exactly the point. Married couples are automatically given all kinds of next of kin rights without having to go to an attorney and get everything set up.

If you want to learn more, check out www.HRC.org so you can get a better idea of what gay people and couples are facing.

Back to the question:
I don''t feel guilty, but I do what I can to help fight against the bigotry and discrimination gay people/couples in the US are facing. Maine was another blow election night. I think... hope... gay couples will have the right to marry in my lifetime, hopefully much sooner.

 

[DearBuddha]

Date: 11/5/2009 11:19:28 PM
Author: kas baby
This is fantastic timing. My roommate and I just had this conversation yesterday. We both agreed that the gov''t is meddling where it shouldn''t be and going against what it is suppoesd to stand for.


I think people are afraid of what they don''t understand. I know a lot of ''straight'' couples who seem intimidated by ''gay'' or ''lesbian'' couples. its silly to me. It also makes me upset when people feel the need to disclose their sexuality. I don''t go around saying ''Hi I''m so-and-so and I''m straight'' and I certainly don''t expect people who are gay to tell me upon introducing themselves. It''s none of my business. I met up with a friend at a University football game and she was there with some friends already. We were introduced, chatted a little, and then they had to leave. RIGHT after they were out of ear shot, my friend turned to me and said ''oh by the way they''re lesbians from my bible study group.'' and she said it as if it was going to be her mission to ''fix them'' since it''s ''unholy'' to be gay. wtf.


I also get upset when people get treated differently after coming out. That really bothers me. One of the nicest guys I know recently came out and now most of our old friends talk behind his back- its ridiulous. They''ve known him since forever but now they suddenly have something against him? not cool.



as for your original question, I do not feel guilty. My aunt and her partner have been together for several years, have rings, and are planning on having a ceremony with close friends whether or not the gov''t will see it as legal. We will certainly be ther to support them. They are not mad at FI and I for being able to have a legalized marriage, they are just happy that we have somebody to love and be there for us.


seperation of church and state. what a bunch of false promises.


seems to be a lot of that getting dished out (I''m coming from a bitter place on that. MI promise scholarship was revoked, so now I have to pay MI for them not being able to hold up their end of the deal. BS.)

The government is here to protect our rights and to fix the things that don''t work with our country. The fact that marriage is "protected" for straight people is both disturbing and upsetting. Love is something everyone wants in life, and it''s no one else''s business to tell you your love is wrong.

And the thing the really drives me nuts about this? The fact that people vote for their government to "maintain marriage" and actually expect their elected officials to uphold the same archaic, fearful, hateful values.

People, don''t tell yourself that the government sees your marriage as anything more than a papered legality and a combined tax record. The government doesn''t send you a wedding gift or offers congrats on your golden anniversary. As long as they get what they want from you as a couple with a license, they don''t give two hoots if you get a divorce the next day.

....which, let''s face it, many people do. Yay for the straights upholding the sanctity of marriage! If only Elizabeth Taylor and Jennifer Lopez were the faces of Prop. 8.....

As for religion and homosexuality, I closed that door a long time ago. I spent my entire childhood in a church, and the things I heard about gays and lesbians made me so uncomfortable and sad that it was one of the major reasons I now avoid organized religion entirely.

I''d be more concise, but the lack of coffee and the need to scoot to work is preventing me from doing so. I apologize if this sounds scrambled.

 

[vc10um]

Date: 11/5/2009 9:41:42 PM
Author: jen2M
We are actually putting something about it in our program-- it will read like this:


We share this day together with our friends and family, looking forward to a time when all may be able to share in the bond of marriage. Until that day comes, we joyfully join our lives and our love with a special appreciation for those who are unable to do the same by law, but do so by living every day of their lives with the ones they love and cherish.

jen2M, that's a beautiful statement.

I'm glad to see there are so many vocal and accepting ladies here on PS!!!

I think the root of the problem is that the government, long long ago, adopted religious terminology to describe the union of a man and woman. So although you must obtain a "marriage license" from the state, it does not guarantee you the sacrament of "marriage" in the church.

Frankly, if everyone had to obtain a "commitment" license before the ceremony, and then was "married" by the church, or "committed" to eachother in another ceremony outside of the church, there would be a helluva lot less controversy in my opinion.

The problem now is, we've been calling it "marriage", spiritually and civically, for so long now that change like that would be extraordinarily difficult.

ETA: What I didn't say is that I have no problem with a particular church saying they won't marry a couple because it's against the rules of the church. I have a HUGE problem with the government saying people can't get married, simply because people can't separate marriage under state law and marriage under religious law.

 

[nkarma]

Good responses to this thread. I really like the program idea, Jen2M. I will definitely do that myself. I also will probably donate half our gifts to a good marriage equality charity.

Rock of Love, there are definitely some benefits/rights that gay couples cannot take advantage of and it is just so much of a hassle. I was thinking of just making the vow and having the ceremony but not actually getting married but to get next of kin, change names, taxes, health insurance, social security (if it is there when I retire), medicare (if needed), adoption, child custody in case of divorce, etc... is A LOT harder. My company will let domestic partners in on healthcare POST tax, so there is one example of money loss/inconvenience.

I just feel like registering as married under the state validates the laws they have in place. Also, I feel like it is very wrong to take advantage of a right that I have and others do not. It's like participating in the black and white drinking fountain, hotels, sides of restaurants, etc...Why should I get these benefits/rights when others don't? Jews had to less rights in German territories pre WW2 and people just watched and participated by accepting that.

I feel like I am saying sorry sucker, I can do it and you can't. Would ever do that to another human being in other situations?

I know my opinion is extreme, I need to reconcile of the ease of marriage benefits I will get by marrying legally and discriminating against others. Maybe I can do it the hard way like gay people?

 

[sonnyjane]

I know if my DH was not in the military, we would not have felt such an urgency to marry. In the eyes of the military, if you are not a wife (as opposed to a girlfriend), you are nothing. You cannot be added to health insurance, you cannot live together on base, and you are not entitled to financial incentives that married couples receive (more money for housing, more money when separated). Non-spouses are also not allowed to go on base unless they are accompanied by the service-member, which means they can''t take advantage of things like lower cost groceries, gasoline, fitness centers, etc. (though that''s not that big of a deal). Technically, a non-spouse can be added to life insurance benefits and be granted Power of Attorney, but if you are married, those changes are done automatically. And the final thing no military spouse wants to think about - but being married is the only guarantee you will be notified in the event your military service member is injured or killed. If you are a girlfriend, the military doesn''t owe you any notification - you can find out on the news like everyone else.

 

[lilyfoot]

This thread is making me super sad

There''s so much to say on this issue. But to answer the original question, I can''t say I feel "guilty" because it''s not like straight people are "taking away" others rights to get married, KWIM? There are a lot of "rights" or "privileges" that we all take advantage of every day, but that doesn''t mean we''re taking those from someone else.

But I feel extremely sad for any two people in love who can''t get married. I can''t even imagine how that must feel.

 

[HopeDream]

Nope, don't feel guilty - everyone can get married in Canuckistan!
(It hasn't changed society a bit, except there are more folks with wedding bands.)

Don't lose hope dear Americans, it will happen. It'll just take time and lots of lawyers!

 

[Kelli]

I wouldn''t feel guilty, but proud that I was part of a bigger thing happening. The fact that you ARE allowed to get married is at least a start. Maybe if enough people do it, the world would stop fearing it so much and other states would follow!

 

[Ms. Raptor]

No. Absolutely not. You should not feel guilty.

For your controversial question, I have a controversial answer.

I 100% believe in the separation of church and state and do not believe the legislation of marriage is any of the government''s business.

Traditionally, marriage has been a religious institution that provided for the following:
-perpetuation of the species
-a way to grant property rights/keep property in family (since in most societies, women couldn''t own property)
-protection of bloodlines
The historical definition of marriage is a religious union between a man and a woman. It is a religious institution. If there is separtion of church and state, the government does not (and should not) have the right to force religions/churches to marry couples who hold values contrary to the religious beliefs practiced by said religion or church.

With that being said, I believe if the government wants to recognize unions between people, then it absolutely should be equal, regardless of race, religion, creed, gender, sexual preference, and so on. It should also be legal and afford the EXACT SAME RIGHTS.

For example:
If you''re a heterosexual, religious couple, you can do the whole religious marriage shebang, BUT you would also have to sign a "union certificate" (or whatever it would be called) for the government to recognize it.

If you''re a homosexual couple, you can have a nonreligious ceremony (or religious, if your church/faith permits), BUT you would likewise have to sign a union certificate for the government to recognize it.

I was raised in a religious family, but am a practicing secularist/atheist (closet atheist... my family would die if they knew!).
So for people like me, who are heterosexual and NOT religious, I would have my secular ceremony and would, as well, have to sign a union certificate to get the government to recognize my union. I do not want to be be "married" (<- religious) to my partner. Do I want us to be recognized as a united couple and get to have an extremely awesome party celebrating our decision to share out lives (as well as government/insurance rights)? Heck yes!

Let the churches and religious people have their traditionally defined (and historically accurate) definition of marriage. That shouldn''t make a difference what the government does. Instead of fighting to change a definition, why aren''t people fighting instead to have civil unions for everybody if the government wants to be involved?

Not being religious, I do not want to be a part of the traditionally defined religious version of marriage. I would rather have a civil union with my SO. I''m hoping to get one of my friends certed to perform a secular ceremony for me. If I have to have a religous marriage extravaganza, it will be because my parents want a dog and pony show and use a financial bribe to make me do it (like a new car).

I''m hoping I get my secular union.

Secular unions, IMO, are the only thing the government should provide for, if anything at all, since religion is not the government''s business.
I truly believe this is the best solution because it makes everyone equal in the eyes of the law, protects the traditional/relgious definition of marriage (so it makes those advocates happy), and it gives a civil/secular option for people like me who don''t want or appreciate the religious moniker of marriage being slapped on their union just because they are heterosexual.

I''m in a rush (gotta catch a flight), so I hope I''ve been clear enough, but if I wasn''t:
In summation:
I''m pro equal rights.
Unions for ALL; "marriage" for the religious. (same exact thing- one secular and state recognized, the other religious and not state recognized)

 

[Revana03]

I do not feel guilty in the least.

 

[DearBuddha]

Date: 11/9/2009 2:13:51 PM
Author: Ms. Raptor
No. Absolutely not. You should not feel guilty.


For your controversial question, I have a controversial answer.


I 100% believe in the separation of church and state and do not believe the legislation of marriage is any of the government''s business.


Traditionally, marriage has been a religious institution that provided for the following:

-perpetuation of the species

-a way to grant property rights/keep property in family (since in most societies, women couldn''t own property)

-protection of bloodlines

The historical definition of marriage is a religious union between a man and a woman. It is a religious institution. If there is separtion of church and state, the government does not (and should not) have the right to force religions/churches to marry couples who hold values contrary to the religious beliefs practiced by said religion or church.


With that being said, I believe if the government wants to recognize unions between people, then it absolutely should be equal, regardless of race, religion, creed, gender, sexual preference, and so on. It should also be legal and afford the EXACT SAME RIGHTS.


For example:

If you''re a heterosexual, religious couple, you can do the whole religious marriage shebang, BUT you would also have to sign a ''union certificate'' (or whatever it would be called) for the government to recognize it.


If you''re a homosexual couple, you can have a nonreligious ceremony (or religious, if your church/faith permits), BUT you would likewise have to sign a union certificate for the government to recognize it.


I was raised in a religious family, but am a practicing secularist/atheist (closet atheist... my family would die if they knew!).

So for people like me, who are heterosexual and NOT religious, I would have my secular ceremony and would, as well, have to sign a union certificate to get the government to recognize my union. I do not want to be be ''married'' (<- religious) to my partner. Do I want us to be recognized as a united couple and get to have an extremely awesome party celebrating our decision to share out lives (as well as government/insurance rights)? Heck yes!


Let the churches and religious people have their traditionally defined (and historically accurate) definition of marriage. That shouldn''t make a difference what the government does. Instead of fighting to change a definition, why aren''t people fighting instead to have civil unions for everybody if the government wants to be involved?


Not being religious, I do not want to be a part of the traditionally defined religious version of marriage. I would rather have a civil union with my SO. I''m hoping to get one of my friends certed to perform a secular ceremony for me. If I have to have a religous marriage extravaganza, it will be because my parents want a dog and pony show and use a financial bribe to make me do it (like a new car).

I''m hoping I get my secular union.


Secular unions, IMO, are the only thing the government should provide for, if anything at all, since religion is not the government''s business.

I truly believe this is the best solution because it makes everyone equal in the eyes of the law, protects the traditional/relgious definition of marriage (so it makes those advocates happy), and it gives a civil/secular option for people like me who don''t want or appreciate the religious moniker of marriage being slapped on their union just because they are heterosexual.


I''m in a rush (gotta catch a flight), so I hope I''ve been clear enough, but if I wasn''t:

In summation:

I''m pro equal rights.

Unions for ALL; ''marriage'' for the religious. (same exact thing- one secular and state recognized, the other religious and not state recognized)

This is the exact train of thought I had when I originally read this post, but I never would have worded it so wonderfully. Thank you for this well thought out and supported response, and big ups to being honest and straight-forward; you''re the kind of the thinker I can respect

 

[jaylex]

Date: 11/9/2009 2:13:51 PM
Author: Ms. Raptor


In summation:
I'm pro equal rights.
Unions for ALL; 'marriage' for the religious. (same exact thing- one secular and state recognized, the other religious and not state recognized)

I guess you would say I'm def. one of those "religious people" but I respect people who are gay like I respect anyone else.

Personally, I don't agree with the part I highlighted above. I am not against giving homosexual couples in civil unions the same rights as heterosexual couples in "marriages". But personally, I want the state to recognise me as "married", not "united"... but either one should hold up legally. like couples with children as an example.. some people go through the process of adoption, some people go through the process of having their own... both are legally recognized as parents.
Does that make any sense? I'm really tired so sorry if that was rambling..

And sonny, I really empathise with your situation. My friend dated a soldier for about a year and that "only the girlfriend" factor was really hard on their relationship. I know that the world doesn't really "ever" view girlfriends as seriously as wives and it's pretty frustrating... but that has to be ten times harder when you are dating a military man! i give you ladies that are/were in that situation so much credit!

 

[swimmer]

I keep coming back to this thread to see what is being posted; DH and I were surprised when signing our marriage certificate down south that there was a space for "Man" and "Wife" for us to put our names. But the state where we reside, where I have signed friends'' marriage certificates for "party A and party B", gay marriage has been legal for more than 5 years and we sort of forget that so many other states do not grant this basic rite to all citizens. Prop 2''s results on election night were so shocking. Such a damper on the night''s joy at overcoming so many racial hurdles...

I just never understand how folks who do not want government involved in their lives at all can be in favor of the gov''t legislating anything concerning marriage.

 

[Ms. Raptor]

Thanks, DearBuddha! I really appreciate your compliment! Honestly, I was nervous posting. I really just wanted to get across that it doesn''t have to be a choice between Group 1 or Group 2 getting their way, and that it''s possible to have a solution that accomodates the beliefs/feelings of people on both sides of the issue.

Jaylex, I guess I''m just wondering why it matters what the government calls it, as long as it means you''re a part of committed couple and have the benefits that come along with that? I don''t see why it matters if the government calls it "married", "united", "coupled" or any other phrase. It''s not necessary for the purpose it serves for the government, which is to identify both parties of a legally committed couple in order for them to attain certain legal rights, etc. Also, I hope you don''t think I was being snarky or rude towards religious people. I have no problem with people who are religious, but it''s just not my life. I wanted it to be clear that I was trying to approach the issue from a way that would be fair to both sides while giving a little info on my own background to help people understand where I was coming from.

On a side note concerning SOs in the military: My SO is a Marine. If I were to move in with him before we get married, we would bear all the expense. If I move in after, the military pays for it. Considering we are currently living half the country apart, any move on my part would cost thousands. Yikes!

I wish the best to all you ladies! Thank you for sharing thoughts and opinions!