Do bezels and halos "help" old cuts

[valmanin]

Hi all!

I remember reading a while back that some old cuts need a little help to look their best and that bezeling them can sometimes do the trick. I am wondering why this is? Will a bezel help ALL old cuts look their best or just the ones with leakage issues etc.?

Also, I am wondering if halos have the same effect as bezels? I have noticed that when I pinch my fingers around my stone the faceting pops and the stone looks more lively. I am wondering if this particular OEC needs a bezel or halo or is this just old cuts in general.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated!

 

[yssie]

Hi all!

I remember reading a while back that some old cuts need a little help to look their best and that bezeling them can sometimes do the trick. I am wondering why this is? Will a bezel help ALL old cuts look their best or just the ones with leakage issues etc.?

Also, I am wondering if halos have the same effect as bezels? I have noticed that when I pinch my fingers around my stone the faceting pops and the stone looks more lively. I am wondering if this particular OEC needs a bezel or halo or is this just old cuts in general.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated!

A bezel will make leakage issues worse more often than not, I should think -
A) the rim of the bezel encloses much more of the stone than prongs, meaning that there's that much less surface area to invite incident light,
B) the rise of the bezel itself over the girdle prevents output dispersions from the edge of the crown, esp. if it's a flatter crown
C) at every contact point between stone and metal there's no total internal reflection determined by critical angle, just plain old reflection off the metal surface - and a lot more opportunity to reflect metal colour...

 

[VRBeauty]

Some old cut stones have very thin girdles. A bezel set would help protect them from damage.

 

[arkieb1]

I think it depends on the stone. I think some halo or bezel style settings improve some old cuts a lot and I have seen others that actually make the stone look worse because they allow less light in ie if anything the bezel dulls the amount of light being returned back out restricting the fire and sparkle. Are you thinking about putting a bezel around yours? Something like an octagon or a hexagon might work or a diamond halo with prongs rather than bezel set would make it larger and give it some extra kick in the fire department if that is what you are looking for....

I am having the opposite problem at the moment I want a Sophia made by Victor but have a stone with an uber thin girdle, which probably needs something around it to protect it but the stone itself benefits more from an open type setting.

 

[yssie]

I actually think it depends on the stone. I think some halo or bezel style settings improve some old cuts a lot and I have seen others that actually make the stone look worse because they allow less light in ie if anything to halo dulls the amount of light being returned back out restricting the fire and sparkle. Are you thinking about putting a bezel around yours? Something like an octagon or a hexagon might work or a diamond halo with prongs rather than bezel set would make it larger and give it some extra kick in the fire department if that is what you are looking for....

Yes, you're right - I should have qualified my post with "would make leakage issues resulting from steep crown/mains combos worse" - bezelling a shallow or otherwise differently proportioned stone could be an interesting venture! And VR makes a good point about protecting very thin girdles.

 

[GemFever]

I think what you see when you put your hand around a diamond is normal. It creates some kind of lighting environment that diamonds really like (or at least all the OECs I've done this with). I don't think it necessarily means a bezel would have the same effect. I think your fingers go beyond just covering the girdle, they create a whole different light situation around the stone.

 

[arkieb1]

I am not sure you will achieve what you want putting a halo around the stone you have if its the 3.00+ carat one. You have always seemed a bit umm indecisive and iffy about this stone. Its a really nice old cut. Imperfect but a nice old cut. I think Adam messes with and recuts a few of his stones which is why the smaller one you fell in love with was more perfectly cut and more like a AVR.

Options are waiting for him to find another stone one day, or John to cut a bigger AVR in a lower colour. Or have you thought about looking for a large Old mine or cushion cut? I noticed in another thread you fell in love with a small antique Old Miner, maybe you should be looking for one of those as they reflect light differently?

 

[valmanin]

I am not sure you will achieve what you want putting a halo around the stone you have if its the 3.00+ carat one. You have always seemed a bit umm indecisive and iffy about this stone. Its a really nice old cut. Imperfect but a nice old cut. I think Adam messes with and recuts a few of his stones which is why the smaller one you fell in love with was more perfectly cut and more like a AVR.

Options are waiting for him to find another stone one day, or John to cut a bigger AVR in a lower colour. Or have you thought about looking for a large Old mine or cushion cut? I noticed in another thread you fell in love with a small antique Old Miner, maybe you should be looking for one of those as they reflect light differently?

My plan is still to wait for Adam to find me the stone. I really am just trying to further my understanding of old cuts and their needs. I remember Dreamer saying a while back that some of them need a little help and I was wondering if a bezel would help this one...not that I would spend the money to have a new setting when I am really looking for a new stone.

The halo question is just me being curious if they do the same thing as bezels. I wonder for the future if that little bit of extra sparkle around the edges would give me what I want...and I mean a tiny VC type halo. I LOVE the solitaire setting I have, but I find the performance of the stone underwhelming. I suppose it is possible that I need a MRB in order to get the wow factor that I want, but that would make me sad.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

 

[valmanin]

I think what you see when you put your hand around a diamond is normal. It creates some kind of lighting environment that diamonds really like (or at least all the OECs I've done this with). I don't think it necessarily means a bezel would have the same effect. I think your fingers go beyond just covering the girdle, they create a whole different light situation around the stone.

Good point Gem. Maybe I should have one of those E-collars made for my ring. That might work!

 

[valmanin]

Hi all!

I remember reading a while back that some old cuts need a little help to look their best and that bezeling them can sometimes do the trick. I am wondering why this is? Will a bezel help ALL old cuts look their best or just the ones with leakage issues etc.?

Also, I am wondering if halos have the same effect as bezels? I have noticed that when I pinch my fingers around my stone the faceting pops and the stone looks more lively. I am wondering if this particular OEC needs a bezel or halo or is this just old cuts in general.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated!

A bezel will make leakage issues worse more often than not, I should think -
A) the rim of the bezel encloses much more of the stone than prongs, meaning that there's that much less surface area to invite incident light,
B) the rise of the bezel itself over the girdle prevents output dispersions from the edge of the crown, esp. if it's a flatter crown
C) at every contact point between stone and metal there's no total internal reflection determined by critical angle, just plain old reflection off the metal surface - and a lot more opportunity to reflect metal colour...

Very interesting. Thanks Yssie for explaining that!

 

[beaujolais]

Some old cut stones have very thin girdles. A bezel set would help protect them from damage.

GOG fixed my old stone's (see avitar) thin girdle & repolished it for a very small fee. It came out great.

 

[bunnycat]

I think what you see when you put your hand around a diamond is normal. It creates some kind of lighting environment that diamonds really like (or at least all the OECs I've done this with). I don't think it necessarily means a bezel would have the same effect. I think your fingers go beyond just covering the girdle, they create a whole different light situation around the stone.

Good point Gem. Maybe I should have one of those E-collars made for my ring. That might work!

I think if you would like to see what a bezel might look like, you might try the tin foil trick where you take a piece of tin foil and wrap it around the stone and setting to see a better idea of how a bezel might actually look. Gem is right that cupping is not the same thing and it is creating a different lighting environment to see your stone.

As for halos, I love them and just think they always give a nice finishing touch around the edges of a stone. I just like the way stones look with them, including colored stones!

The trouble with old cuts (and this is just my opinion) over modern cuts is in how much I think you have to pay attention to the setting you put it in.With a modern ideal/super ideal powerhouse you can basically walk in, say "ohh- fabulous setting, let's put it in there" and boom you're done and life is good. And with an older stone, I feel like it more about shaping your setting choice around the stone and what is brings out it's best qualities (like not putting it in yellow if white or rose would be better, putting it in yellow if that's what it needs, not bezeling it if that wouldn't look good...etc....). It's more about what the stone needs than what you want.

I don't think a halo and a bezel are the same thing aside from making a decorative edge around your stone. As Yssie said, a bezel is going to cut light from all around the girdle and unless you choose a bezel set halo, then in a halo you basically have your stone sitting on an open platform with a decorative edge around it leaving the bottom entirely open and light being able to enter from pretty much everywhere except the few spots where the prongs cover the stone.

 

[arkieb1]

I am not sure you will achieve what you want putting a halo around the stone you have if its the 3.00+ carat one. You have always seemed a bit umm indecisive and iffy about this stone. Its a really nice old cut. Imperfect but a nice old cut. I think Adam messes with and recuts a few of his stones which is why the smaller one you fell in love with was more perfectly cut and more like a AVR.

Options are waiting for him to find another stone one day, or John to cut a bigger AVR in a lower colour. Or have you thought about looking for a large Old mine or cushion cut? I noticed in another thread you fell in love with a small antique Old Miner, maybe you should be looking for one of those as they reflect light differently?

My plan is still to wait for Adam to find me the stone. I really am just trying to further my understanding of old cuts and their needs. I remember Dreamer saying a while back that some of them need a little help and I was wondering if a bezel would help this one...not that I would spend the money to have a new setting when I am really looking for a new stone.

The halo question is just me being curious if they do the same thing as bezels. I wonder for the future if that little bit of extra sparkle around the edges would give me what I want...and I mean a tiny VC type halo. I LOVE the solitaire setting I have, but I find the performance of the stone underwhelming. I suppose it is possible that I need a MRB in order to get the wow factor that I want, but that would make me sad.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

Yes I was suggesting something like a VC halo in my earlier post because I am sure it will add some flash and sparkle. Having said that if you are replacing the stone then if its a different size or shape that would be wasting buckets of money.

I think looking at your girdle it has already been done, the stone may have had a mini facelift already as well.

I am in the same boat learning as much as I can about old cuts. I think I have found mine, she is imperfect and has minor issues that bug me but at the same time the stone is glorious and is unique and untouched. I think thats the thing with genuine golden oldies you have to learn to live with and love their imperfections. Its a pain in the butt and frequently a long wait to find a good genuine old cut or alternatively wait for a large lower coloured AVR or AVC.