movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dilemma with my niece who''s visiting (or is it?)
- Thread starter Phoenix
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Gypsy
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Cehrabehra
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Octavia
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IMO, you''re well within your rights to discuss the way she''s been (mis)behaving while a guest in your home with her mother. Your neice should expect nothing less -- I know that if I were visiting my aunts or uncles, I''d expect them to talk about my visit (good OR bad) with my parents even now, and I''m 27 and married. Anything that your neice told you about that may have occurred at college but that hasn''t happened during this visit is still not your business to tell about, though. Even though she''s being a bad guest and I know you''re worried, discussing things you don''t have firsthand knowledge of can seriously backfire, so please realize that you might irreparably damage your relationship if you choose to tell about non-visit-related transgressions. Good luck to you, it''s a hard situation to be in.
zoebartlett
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Phoenix, I''ve read this thread, but I haven''t replied until now. If you haven''t already, I''d contact your niece''s parents and tell them everything, just as a heads up. Maybe ask them how they want to you to deal with it. Yes, your niece is an adult because of her age, but but she hasn''t respected you or your husband. I''m 36, and I would never do the things she''s done if I was visiting someone. As someone said, your house has become a hotel for her to come and go as she pleases. I would think that she''d want to spend more time with you -- her family. While I think it''s fine for her to visit new-found friends, she''s not acting like she appreciates that you''ve opened your house to her.
movie zombie
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i agree with this....except that i don't think its Phoenix's responsibility to "deal with it". i'd probably give them the info she gave me as to where she is and how to contact her and let the parents go for it. i'd also be clear that the niece is no longer welcome in the home due to lack of respect for you, your home, and your rules.
ultimately, it is your home and your rules! she obviously did not come to visit you. personally, i would not allow her to visit again unless accompanied by one of her parents.
mz
ps i really do believe that many 19 year olds are responsible and their parents can trust them to act appropriately in these situations. i also don't have a problem with the niece calling her own shots at college.....or at home if that's what her parents allow. an admission of smoking pot does not upset me. however, i do believe she must also be responsiible for her decisions and actions. in this case, she has used and abused Phoenix: it is Phoenix's house; therefore, it is Phoenix's rules. she has abused and disrespected the family relationship. Phoenix owes this girl nothing. if the girl wants a relatioship in the future, she needs to earn it. Phoenix agreed to a family visit, not to be a hotel or staff to be abused. but Phoenix also has to be clear about this in her next conversation with the mother and with the niece also if there is another conversation with the niece.
eta: i agree that non-visit related issues are not Phoenix's to divulge. her own personal experience with this niece and not wanting to be held responsible for what she does or might happen to her needs to be clearly stated to the girl's mother.
iheartscience
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I''m late to this thread but I''ve read it and I have to offer a a view from the other side. When I was in college my brother (who is 5 years older than me) was stationed in Germany and he invited me and my twin sister to come stay with him over our spring break and offered to pay for part of our airfare. We excitedly accepted, not realizing that in his mind this meant that we would sit at his apartment or just stay in the little town he was stationed in and then go visit cathedrals and museums with him and his wife when he was off. (Call me uncultured but they all look the same after a while-stone and stained glass!)
It was the least fun trip I''ve ever been on because he tried to dictate everything we did based on his own interests. This culminated in a big fight when we traveled to Munich with him and his wife and he got angry that I wanted to stop by a store I had been to the night before to pick up a jacket I liked before we left town. Yes-we had a fight over a stop at a store. It was RIDICULOUS. He was apparently angry that we didn''t enjoy visiting every cathedral in Germany. My sister and I were 21 at the time and had both been to Europe twice before by ourselves so we didn''t need the chaperoning or the trip planning. We just wanted to hang out, eat good food, drink good beer and visit a museum or two.
And I think 19 is plenty old enough to make good decisions. The first time I went to Europe I was 17 and my sister and I backpacked around for 2 months with a friend of ours who had lived with us as an exchange student our junior year of high school. As 17-year-olds, we were perfectly capable of making good decisions and were safe for the entire trip. I have no doubt that an intelligent 19-year-old will be able to do the same. I understand there are cultural issues at play here that didn''t apply in my situation, but I think it''s also important to take into account the fact that your niece lives in the U.S. and may be more "American" in her thinking.
I understand that she''s visiting you and staying with you, but what do you expect from her? Do you think she should be at your house all day and night because she''s staying with you? (I''m genuinely curious and am not trying to sound mean here.)
It was the least fun trip I''ve ever been on because he tried to dictate everything we did based on his own interests. This culminated in a big fight when we traveled to Munich with him and his wife and he got angry that I wanted to stop by a store I had been to the night before to pick up a jacket I liked before we left town. Yes-we had a fight over a stop at a store. It was RIDICULOUS. He was apparently angry that we didn''t enjoy visiting every cathedral in Germany. My sister and I were 21 at the time and had both been to Europe twice before by ourselves so we didn''t need the chaperoning or the trip planning. We just wanted to hang out, eat good food, drink good beer and visit a museum or two.
And I think 19 is plenty old enough to make good decisions. The first time I went to Europe I was 17 and my sister and I backpacked around for 2 months with a friend of ours who had lived with us as an exchange student our junior year of high school. As 17-year-olds, we were perfectly capable of making good decisions and were safe for the entire trip. I have no doubt that an intelligent 19-year-old will be able to do the same. I understand there are cultural issues at play here that didn''t apply in my situation, but I think it''s also important to take into account the fact that your niece lives in the U.S. and may be more "American" in her thinking.
I understand that she''s visiting you and staying with you, but what do you expect from her? Do you think she should be at your house all day and night because she''s staying with you? (I''m genuinely curious and am not trying to sound mean here.)
AGSHF
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I haven''t read much except Phoenix''s posts, but it seems fairly clear to me that your niece is probably using her visit as a means to do things that she wouldn''t normally be allowed to do if she were home on holiday back at her parents'' house.
For all you know, she''s not at the "friend" ''s but is staying elsewhere. Have you tried to call her on her cellphone or call her at this friend''s apartment? I would (i) call her and ask her to come back to your apartment before the departure date and (ii) call her parents and inform them of the goings on. I don''t care that she''s over 18. She''s visiting you as a family member and, during her visit, you are responsible to her parents for her safety and welfare. If I were in your situation, I couldn''t in good conscience let my sister believe that her daughter is on a well-chaperoned overseas visit when in truth she has been coming and going from your home as though it were a hotel and you haven''t even seen her in several days. And, yes, I would be livid.
For all you know, she''s not at the "friend" ''s but is staying elsewhere. Have you tried to call her on her cellphone or call her at this friend''s apartment? I would (i) call her and ask her to come back to your apartment before the departure date and (ii) call her parents and inform them of the goings on. I don''t care that she''s over 18. She''s visiting you as a family member and, during her visit, you are responsible to her parents for her safety and welfare. If I were in your situation, I couldn''t in good conscience let my sister believe that her daughter is on a well-chaperoned overseas visit when in truth she has been coming and going from your home as though it were a hotel and you haven''t even seen her in several days. And, yes, I would be livid.
Cehrabehra
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just as a note, I keep seeing people say things like I''m 25 and I wouldn''t do this, I''m 30 and I wouldn''t do this, I''m 35 and I wouldn''t do this... and that doesn''t surprise me. Those ages are far more mature than 19. If anything 19 is the MOST immature age - you have the "rights" of an adult and the wisdom of a child. I don''t think she should be held to those standards, but I think she should be held accountable for reality - whatever consequences that may bear - and right now her auntie is disappointed and concerned and she should say so. An adult would expect nothing else, she should have that dose of reality. But don''t be surprised she''s in this phase... in many ways its normal, but thankfully (hopefully) temporary.
iheartscience
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Very true. I know 19 isn''t quite adult, but I do think 19 is old enough to have a good head on your shoulders. Obviously I don''t know her niece at all, but when I was 17 I was able to make good decisions at home and while traveling. I wasn''t perfect, but I certainly didn''t put myself in a situation where I would be kidnapped and sold into sex slavery like some people have mentioned!
So who''s to say her niece isn''t making smart decisions? Honestly, I don''t really think hanging out with a guy she just met qualifies as a bad decision...if that was the case none of us would be married!
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Thanks very much again, everyone, for replying and for your advice/ input.
Well, I have forwarded my niece's email to my SIL (who has responded) as well as Skyped my brother. They both seem to believe that her daughter is a good girl and that she can do no wrong!
My SIL seems rather indignant, a tad defensive if I might add. SIL insists that if her daughter was a party-animal, she wouldn't have got good grades from school!! She seems to have missed the points entirely that i) my niece has behaved in not a very polite or considerate manner towards us; and ii) she may be putting herself and us in danger by hanging out with people that we don't know anything about; and more to the point, is she really hanging out with this girl or is she hanging out with strangers - for eg. the boy she'd just met a few days ago and is using her friend as an excuse/ pretense to us and to her parents. God knows, she admits she's used people before and you know what, judging from her behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised that she uses people, including DH and I.
The most important thing is that she is here now, under our care; we're supposed to be responsible for her (whatever she gets up to back home is her and her parents' biz).
Anyway, we've done our part now and if anything happens to my niece, that won't be our responsibility! Her parents have been warned!
Thank you very much again, everyone, for all your help.
Well, I have forwarded my niece's email to my SIL (who has responded) as well as Skyped my brother. They both seem to believe that her daughter is a good girl and that she can do no wrong!
The most important thing is that she is here now, under our care; we're supposed to be responsible for her (whatever she gets up to back home is her and her parents' biz).
Anyway, we've done our part now and if anything happens to my niece, that won't be our responsibility! Her parents have been warned!
Thank you very much again, everyone, for all your help.
DiaDiva
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Date: 1/12/2010 1:41:50 AM
Author: Phoenix
Thanks very much again, everyone, for replying and for advice/ input.
Well, I have forwarded my niece''s email to my SIL (who has responded) as well as Skyped my brother. They both seem to believe that her daughter is a good girl and that she can do no wrong!My SIL seems rather indignant, a tad defensive if I might add. SIL insists that if her daughter was a party-animal, she wouldn''t have got good grades from school!! She seems to have missed the points entirely that i) my niece has behaved in not a very polite or considerate manner towards us; and ii) she may be putting herself and us in danger by hanging out with people that we don''t know anything about; and more to the point, is she really hanging out with this girl or is she hanging out with strangers - for eg. the boy she''d just met a few days ago and is using her friend as an excuse/ pretense to us and to her parents. God knows, she admits she''s used people before and you know what, judging from her behaviour, I wouldn''t be surprised that she uses people, including DH and I.
The most important thing is that she is here now, under our care; we''re supposed to be responsible for her (whatever she gets up to back home is her and her parents'' biz).
Anyway, we''ve done our part now and if anything happens to my niece, that won''t be our responsibility! Her parents have been warned!
Phoenix, so sorry to hear this about your niece. I''m glad you told her parents and they''ve been forewarned.
Are you still in Singapore? Do you still want to hook up?
Cehrabehra
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your comment reminded me of something I did when I was 13 - 13 and a couple months (summer before 8th grade). I went to australia with a ballet company for just under a month (no parents) and we went to brisbane and were told we could spent 3 or 4 hours walking around but not to go farther than a small block radius - but me and the other 2 girls I was with (both younger than me) decided we''d catch a bus to the exhibition on the edge of town (25 miles or kilometers - don''t recall which) where we went on all of these rides and won stuffed animals and rode the bus back. It did not seem at all a big deal at the time. If this girl was sheltered at all (and even though it''s CA berkley can be a somewhat sheltered place, albeit pot exposed) she may not even realize she could possibly put herself in danger.Date: 1/12/2010 1:32:21 AM
Author: thing2of2
Very true. I know 19 isn''t quite adult, but I do think 19 is old enough to have a good head on your shoulders. Obviously I don''t know her niece at all, but when I was 17 I was able to make good decisions at home and while traveling. I wasn''t perfect, but I certainly didn''t put myself in a situation where I would be kidnapped and sold into sex slavery like some people have mentioned!
So who''s to say her niece isn''t making smart decisions? Honestly, I don''t really think hanging out with a guy she just met qualifies as a bad decision...if that was the case none of us would be married!
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steph72276
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iheartscience
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princesss
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Thing - she''s not with a friend she traveled to China with. She''s with somebody she met there, who she has only known for what, a week?
Honestly, if she were in Europe I''d be less worried. But she''s in China, and possibly wouldn''t know how to read the signs around here even with a dictionary. It''s a much more dangerous thing to trust a stranger in a city like Shanghai than it is to meet somebody in, say, Rome. At least in Rome if you get lost, you can grab a map and a dictionary and figure it out.
Honestly, if she were in Europe I''d be less worried. But she''s in China, and possibly wouldn''t know how to read the signs around here even with a dictionary. It''s a much more dangerous thing to trust a stranger in a city like Shanghai than it is to meet somebody in, say, Rome. At least in Rome if you get lost, you can grab a map and a dictionary and figure it out.
Italiahaircolor
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Your home, your rules.
She may be in college, smart and the whole nine yards that go along with those two facts...but, she is still in a foreign country that has different rules and repercussions. She''s not in Amsterdam.
I would sit her down and have a heart-to-heart with her about your feelings. If she is receptive and forthcoming, then the issue is resolved...you spoke as an adult to another adult on the matter and came up with a solution you can both live with. However, if she gets "bratty" about it...and yes, adult or not, 19 year olds can be huge brats...call her mom. Let her mother know whats going on and where you stand on the issue. Tell her mother than you will not turn a blind eye to this and either she can reel her daughter in, or you''ll be sending her home immediately.
As far as smoking pot...lets face it...while it''s not great, she''s not the first, last or only teenager to experiment. I think if you took a poll you''d find that many of the members here have partaken in a little toking from time to time over the course of their lives. It''s not an immediate red flag and she can go on from this experience to lead a healthy and well rounded life, no question about it.
As far as her "friends"...the internet, and sites like FB and myspace have made it possible for people to connect with others all over the world. Again, I would express your concern and ask that she respects your rules--curfew or phone calls or whatever you set up to keep tabs on her. Its wonderful she''s enjoying herself and meeting people...but her safety comes first, last and always.
She may be in college, smart and the whole nine yards that go along with those two facts...but, she is still in a foreign country that has different rules and repercussions. She''s not in Amsterdam.
I would sit her down and have a heart-to-heart with her about your feelings. If she is receptive and forthcoming, then the issue is resolved...you spoke as an adult to another adult on the matter and came up with a solution you can both live with. However, if she gets "bratty" about it...and yes, adult or not, 19 year olds can be huge brats...call her mom. Let her mother know whats going on and where you stand on the issue. Tell her mother than you will not turn a blind eye to this and either she can reel her daughter in, or you''ll be sending her home immediately.
As far as smoking pot...lets face it...while it''s not great, she''s not the first, last or only teenager to experiment. I think if you took a poll you''d find that many of the members here have partaken in a little toking from time to time over the course of their lives. It''s not an immediate red flag and she can go on from this experience to lead a healthy and well rounded life, no question about it.
As far as her "friends"...the internet, and sites like FB and myspace have made it possible for people to connect with others all over the world. Again, I would express your concern and ask that she respects your rules--curfew or phone calls or whatever you set up to keep tabs on her. Its wonderful she''s enjoying herself and meeting people...but her safety comes first, last and always.
gingerB
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ditto the your home your rules. period. maybe because i come from an asian background also but age doesn''t factor into that, it''s a matter of respect and showing appreciation for your hospitality.
as for the she''s 19, she''s an adult comments -- age/numbers are an arbitrary thing often set by cultural influences. i.e the quincenera in the hispanic culture is a coming of age where a young lady is becoming a woman and is if you think of it crudely, being advertised that she is ripe to start a family (at least in the traditional sense), i.e. is now an adult. that''s at age 15.
and interesting trivia tidbit. mri studies have shown the the part of your brain responisble for making rational decisions and showing restraint doesn''t fully light up until age 22ish or so. intriguing, no? especially when you then think of the repercussions of 18 yr olds being recruited and signing themselves into the military.
as for the she''s 19, she''s an adult comments -- age/numbers are an arbitrary thing often set by cultural influences. i.e the quincenera in the hispanic culture is a coming of age where a young lady is becoming a woman and is if you think of it crudely, being advertised that she is ripe to start a family (at least in the traditional sense), i.e. is now an adult. that''s at age 15.
and interesting trivia tidbit. mri studies have shown the the part of your brain responisble for making rational decisions and showing restraint doesn''t fully light up until age 22ish or so. intriguing, no? especially when you then think of the repercussions of 18 yr olds being recruited and signing themselves into the military.
winternight
Brilliant_Rock
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I''m sorry that she is being so disrespectful! I''m American, but I have relatives overseas and I would never use their home like a hotel or not spend family time on a trip. It is so inappropriate and thoughtless to stay at a friend''s house when you are visiting family. It seems like she is young, immature and somewhat spoiled from your description. Perhaps in the future it is best to not have another solo visit - you don''t need to have to worry about her.
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Thank you very much, everyone, for writing and giving me your input/ suggestions. You guys are really THE BEST!
Well, I sat my niece down yesterday and had a heart-to-heart talk to her. I basically told her she'd been disrespectful and told her that she should have asked us - in person - if we'd mind if she stayed elsewhere and that the way she'd conducted herself was not acceptable. I told her that although she's over the legal age (well, mostly except the drinking bit) in the US, if she insists on behaving like a teenager than that's the way I will treat her. I told her that we've had a couple of nieces visiting before (one from my side of the family and the other from DH's) and even though they were not that much older than she is, we never had to worry about them. She apologized (though I don't know if this was sincere).
What I didn't do though was talk about the lies she'd fed us (I haven't told you guys in detail about these lies) nor the safety aspect of her supposedly staying at her friend's house. With regard to the former, I figure that I'm not her mother and also she has to learn honesty and integrity all by herself, I can't really teach her that. As to the latter, her parents are insistent that she is safe, so who am I to say otherwise?!!
Anyway, she's left our place now and I pray to God that she's going to be ok for the remainder of her holiday here. I'll breathe a sign of relief when she's back home.
Good Lord!! I think half of my hair turned grey these past few days!!
Well, I sat my niece down yesterday and had a heart-to-heart talk to her. I basically told her she'd been disrespectful and told her that she should have asked us - in person - if we'd mind if she stayed elsewhere and that the way she'd conducted herself was not acceptable. I told her that although she's over the legal age (well, mostly except the drinking bit) in the US, if she insists on behaving like a teenager than that's the way I will treat her. I told her that we've had a couple of nieces visiting before (one from my side of the family and the other from DH's) and even though they were not that much older than she is, we never had to worry about them. She apologized (though I don't know if this was sincere).
What I didn't do though was talk about the lies she'd fed us (I haven't told you guys in detail about these lies) nor the safety aspect of her supposedly staying at her friend's house. With regard to the former, I figure that I'm not her mother and also she has to learn honesty and integrity all by herself, I can't really teach her that. As to the latter, her parents are insistent that she is safe, so who am I to say otherwise?!!
Anyway, she's left our place now and I pray to God that she's going to be ok for the remainder of her holiday here. I'll breathe a sign of relief when she's back home.
Good Lord!! I think half of my hair turned grey these past few days!!
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Thank you, DiaDiva.Date: 1/12/2010 1:44:31 AM
Author: DiaDiva
Date: 1/12/2010 1:41:50 AM
Author: Phoenix
Thanks very much again, everyone, for replying and for advice/ input.
Well, I have forwarded my niece''s email to my SIL (who has responded) as well as Skyped my brother. They both seem to believe that her daughter is a good girl and that she can do no wrong!My SIL seems rather indignant, a tad defensive if I might add. SIL insists that if her daughter was a party-animal, she wouldn''t have got good grades from school!! She seems to have missed the points entirely that i) my niece has behaved in not a very polite or considerate manner towards us; and ii) she may be putting herself and us in danger by hanging out with people that we don''t know anything about; and more to the point, is she really hanging out with this girl or is she hanging out with strangers - for eg. the boy she''d just met a few days ago and is using her friend as an excuse/ pretense to us and to her parents. God knows, she admits she''s used people before and you know what, judging from her behaviour, I wouldn''t be surprised that she uses people, including DH and I.
The most important thing is that she is here now, under our care; we''re supposed to be responsible for her (whatever she gets up to back home is her and her parents'' biz).
Anyway, we''ve done our part now and if anything happens to my niece, that won''t be our responsibility! Her parents have been warned!
Phoenix, so sorry to hear this about your niece. I''m glad you told her parents and they''ve been forewarned.
Are you still in Singapore? Do you still want to hook up?
We didn''t go to Singapore. I''m still planning to go there either later this month or next month. I''d LOVE to hook up. Shall I let you know later closer to the time?
lucyandroger
Brilliant_Rock
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I think you handled the situation perfectly. I''m sorry your niece''s visit didn''t go as well as you had planned.Date: 1/13/2010 7:09:25 AM
Author: Phoenix
Thank you very much, everyone, for writing and giving me your input/ suggestions. You guys are really THE BEST!
Well, I sat my niece down yesterday and had a heart-to-heart talk to her. I basically told her she''d been disrespectful and told her that she should have asked us - in person - if we''d mind if she stayed elsewhere and that the way she''d conducted herself was not acceptable. I told her that although she''s over the legal age (well, mostly except the drinking bit) in the US, if she insists on behaving like a teenager than that''s the way I will treat her. I told her that we''ve had a couple of nieces visiting before (one from my side of the family and the other from DH''s) and even though they were not that much older than she is, we never had to worry about them. She apologized (though I don''t know if this was sincere).
What I didn''t do though was talk about the lies she''d fed us (I haven''t told you guys in detail about these lies) nor the safety aspect of her supposedly staying at her friend''s house. With regard to the former, I figure that I''m not her mother and also she has to learn honesty and integrity all by herself, I can''t really teach her that. As to the latter, her parents are insistent that she is safe, so who am I to say otherwise?!!
Anyway, she''s left our place now and I pray to God that she''s going to be ok for the remainder of her holiday here. I''ll breathe a sign of relief when she''s back home.
Good Lord!! I think half of my hair turned grey these past few days!!
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Skippy123
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DiaDiva
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Date: 1/13/2010 8:32:22 AM
Author: Phoenix
Date: 1/12/2010 1:44:31 AM
Author: DiaDiva
Date: 1/12/2010 1:41:50 AM
Author: Phoenix
Thanks very much again, everyone, for replying and for advice/ input.
Well, I have forwarded my niece's email to my SIL (who has responded) as well as Skyped my brother. They both seem to believe that her daughter is a good girl and that she can do no wrong!My SIL seems rather indignant, a tad defensive if I might add. SIL insists that if her daughter was a party-animal, she wouldn't have got good grades from school!! She seems to have missed the points entirely that i) my niece has behaved in not a very polite or considerate manner towards us; and ii) she may be putting herself and us in danger by hanging out with people that we don't know anything about; and more to the point, is she really hanging out with this girl or is she hanging out with strangers - for eg. the boy she'd just met a few days ago and is using her friend as an excuse/ pretense to us and to her parents. God knows, she admits she's used people before and you know what, judging from her behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised that she uses people, including DH and I.
The most important thing is that she is here now, under our care; we're supposed to be responsible for her (whatever she gets up to back home is her and her parents' biz).
Anyway, we've done our part now and if anything happens to my niece, that won't be our responsibility! Her parents have been warned!
Phoenix, so sorry to hear this about your niece. I'm glad you told her parents and they've been forewarned.
Are you still in Singapore? Do you still want to hook up?
Thank you, DiaDiva.
We didn't go to Singapore. I'm still planning to go there either later this month or next month. I'd LOVE to hook up. Shall I let you know later closer to the time?
Hi Phoenix,
Yes, I would love to hook up. Do let me know closer to the date. We can connect via email after we message Admin to connect us and I can provide you with my contact details.
See you soon.
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