Different Appriasals

[pulchra007]

Hi. . so I am in a weird situation. My Fiance bought an engagement ring at a retail chain and proposed on Sunday, 9/28. YAY!!

He bought me a 3/4 Princess cut, I, SI2, in a 14k 4 prong Tiffany style band. I love it, it is beautiful on and it is so versatile for future bands (down side it was certified by GSI. . . not a company anyone is really familiar with.)

Well, I was under the understanding to immediately get it appraised for any issues by someone not at the store it was bought at. The chain store also offered to do an appraisal. My independent appraiser, recommended by the ASG website, put the value at a little over $2,500 (less that what he paid for the ring) where the chain store said the setting is worth $4,100. That is a HUGE difference. I am under the impression that appraisals can be different by a few hundred dollars, but over 1k is way off. So I''m not sure if A)I should go back to the store and get some kind of refund, exchange, etc. or B)let the issue go and be happy with what I have and submit the retail store''s appraisal to my insurance company.

Any advice, thoughts, or information to help me with what to do about this situation??

Thanks for your help!

 

[Regular Guy]

Consider apologizing to your fiance, sharing that in your anticipation of him popping the question, you became a Pricescope junkee, learned these things, felt driven to go to an appraiser, promise to him you will present this info to him, and let him run with whatever solution seems next.

Consider putting this problem in the fiance's hands. He needs to get something you like. The value question should, I think, be his.

It is a gift.

Edited to add...at least...make this kind of analysis one you do in partnership with your partner. That's all.

Warm regards,

 

[CharmyPoo]

I would choose option a but you have to consider your fiance's reaction and how he would feel about it. My understanding is that appraisals are usually over the value you would have paid. A fair appraisal won't be thousands over but I rarely hear them coming in under.

I did a search through the online vendors. I found seven princess diamonds with I/SI2 specs and in the range of 0.75 to 0.90. They were priced between $1700 to $2450 - all with GIA cert. The following 4-prong tiffany style 14K white gold setting is around $300. If it is an option, I would suggest returning the ring and getting something else. You can also go bigger or save your honey some money

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/4-Prong-tiffany-style-for-fancy-cut_756.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-1430229.htm (I don't know princess cuts well so I have no idea if this is a quality diamond)

 

[pulchra007]

The appraisal was done in conjunction with my fiance. He has been apart of the situation from the beginning and had me find the independent appraiser. Therefore, no apology is needed.

Also, all the information is in his hands and he is making the decision on what he wants to do since he is the one that dealt with the company.

Thank you for your thoughts but I was hoping to get a little more insight into how to deal with the appraisals and pricing issues. Then I plan to share the additional information with him so he has more gun power when he goes back to the store.

Again, I appreciate your reply. Have a great day!

 

[John P]

Date: 10/1/2008 4:57:35 PM
Author:pulchra007

Well, I was under the understanding to immediately get it appraised for any issues by someone not at the store it was bought at. The chain store also offered to do an appraisal. My independent appraiser, recommended by the ASG website, put the value at a little over $2,500 (less that what he paid for the ring) where the chain store said the setting is worth $4,100. That is a HUGE difference. I am under the impression that appraisals can be different by a few hundred dollars, but over 1k is way off. So I''m not sure if A)I should go back to the store and get some kind of refund, exchange, etc. or B)let the issue go and be happy with what I have and submit the retail store''s appraisal to my insurance company.

If we presume the independent appraiser you found through AGS did his/her job correctly it''s possible the store gave you a "feel good" document with an inflated price. This might convey the impression you got a bargain but may not reflect the actual cost basis and can unnecessarily inflate your insurance premium (as you can imagine, some insurers love these documents).

With that said, "valuation" is not a fixed number. An appraised value is simply a snapshot of what a professional estimates the piece to be worth at ‘X’ time in ‘Y’ market. Borrowing a Neil Beaty comparison, a piece of jewelry will be priced differently at a strip mall in downtown Denver than it will at a ski shop in Aspen. Ask your AGS appraiser what exactly he/she based the valuation on and you will hopefully get a concise answer.

Around 95% of jewelry is still being purchased in retail stores many appraisers assign values relative to that majority market. However, appraisers differ. Some estimate value according to whatever market the piece was purchased in (and may examine the seller’s invoice to do this) but most still base their valuation on pricing at average retail stores. With the transparency the internet brings there are now appraisers like Rich Sherwood who provides three separate valuations for their clients; one based on internet pricing, a second based on average retail and a third based on upscale retail. I am in favor of this approach, as it gives the consumer added flexibility when securing insurance.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 10/3/2008 6:22:38 AM
Author: pulchra007
The appraisal was done in conjunction with my fiance. He has been apart of the situation from the beginning and had me find the independent appraiser. Therefore, no apology is needed.

Also, all the information is in his hands and he is making the decision on what he wants to do since he is the one that dealt with the company.

Thank you for your thoughts but I was hoping to get a little more insight into how to deal with the appraisals and pricing issues. Then I plan to share the additional information with him so he has more gun power when he goes back to the store.

Again, I appreciate your reply. Have a great day!

Sorry to have missed the context.

Your question is about pricing & the appraisal...and options like USAA mitigate this, by accepting your receipt. I understand the dilemma otherwise, and can't help too much, as many insurers like the appraisal to reference.

Maybe you didn't so much ask about the value directly of the item, per se. Or maybe you did. Anyway...if the appraiser you trust suggests the item you bought is not worth what you paid for it...seems to me this is more the area of concern. It's Ok to like something fine that costs $100, but if it's worth only $10, I'd return it and shop elsewhere (presuming this is an option, still).

Regards,

 

[oldminer]

Was the AGS appraiser an ICGA, an Independent Certfied Gemologist Appraiser member of AGS or just an appraiser operating in an AGS retail jewelry store. If the latter is the case, then all bets are off as to the appraiser being unbiased.

Few AGS retail jewelers would offer a 3/4 ct princess cut in a mounting for $2500 retail. Most would try very hard to charge quite a bit more although the $4K figure sounds optimistically to the high side, too. Retailers often take the opportunity to put doubt into the minds of people whio trust them enough for the appraisal, but not enough to have purchased something in their store. If the AGS appraiser is an ICGA member and only appraises, then were the grades of color and clarity judged to be different than the GSI report which came with the diamond? GSI is relatively new appraisal firm, but a very good one. They are credible and not part of a conspiracy to hurt consumers.

Give us some further details based on the above issues. It is very easy to oversimplify the situation you are involved in. Nearly every vendor comes up against problematic appraisal values and many of these issues are complex and not best guessed at for solutions.

 

[pulchra007]

Date: 10/3/2008 10:53:02 AM
Author: oldminer
Was the AGS appraiser an ICGA, an Independent Certfied Gemologist Appraiser member of AGS or just an appraiser operating in an AGS retail jewelry store. If the latter is the case, then all bets are off as to the appraiser being unbiased.


Few AGS retail jewelers would offer a 3/4 ct princess cut in a mounting for $2500 retail. Most would try very hard to charge quite a bit more although the $4K figure sounds optimistically to the high side, too. Retailers often take the opportunity to put doubt into the minds of people whio trust them enough for the appraisal, but not enough to have purchased something in their store. If the AGS appraiser is an ICGA member and only appraises, then were the grades of color and clarity judged to be different than the GSI report which came with the diamond? GSI is relatively new appraisal firm, but a very good one. They are credible and not part of a conspiracy to hurt consumers.


Give us some further details based on the above issues. It is very easy to oversimplify the situation you are involved in. Nearly every vendor comes up against problematic appraisal values and many of these issues are complex and not best guessed at for solutions.

The $2500 quote came from someone that is a "Graduate Gemologist status with the GIA and being awarded Certified Gemologist title with the American Gem Society" per his website. He has an independent jewelry store and wasn''t given the name of the store or told the cost of the ring. His grading matched the GSI report and actually was more in depth since the retail store bought an abbreviated report of my diamond. (called an MDX report for those familiar with the grading reports from GSI) He appraised the ring for me walking me through step by step to help me understand how it is done.

The person that appraised the ring at the chain store was the same person that sold the ring and didn''t have the ring in hand for the appraisal. He based it off the GSI report. (I''m not sure if this is normal)

Is that the information you are looking for?

After further discussion with my Fiance'' He is going to get the two appraisals together and meet with the store manager regarding the two differences. He is disappointed to find that he could have either bought a larger diamond or saved money towards my wedding band since he found out that my ring as is could have been bought for $2,500 or less depending on the store.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 10/3/2008 6:51:42 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 10/1/2008 4:57:35 PM
Author:pulchra007

Well, I was under the understanding to immediately get it appraised for any issues by someone not at the store it was bought at. The chain store also offered to do an appraisal. My independent appraiser, recommended by the ASG website, put the value at a little over $2,500 (less that what he paid for the ring) where the chain store said the setting is worth $4,100. That is a HUGE difference. I am under the impression that appraisals can be different by a few hundred dollars, but over 1k is way off. So I''m not sure if A)I should go back to the store and get some kind of refund, exchange, etc. or B)let the issue go and be happy with what I have and submit the retail store''s appraisal to my insurance company.

If we presume the independent appraiser you found through AGS did his/her job correctly it''s possible the store gave you a ''feel good'' document with an inflated price. This might convey the impression you got a bargain but may not reflect the actual cost basis and can unnecessarily inflate your insurance premium (as you can imagine, some insurers love these documents).

With that said, ''valuation'' is not a fixed number. An appraised value is simply a snapshot of what a professional estimates the piece to be worth at ‘X’ time in ‘Y’ market. Borrowing a Neil Beaty comparison, a piece of jewelry will be priced differently at a strip mall in downtown Denver than it will at a ski shop in Aspen. Ask your AGS appraiser what exactly he/she based the valuation on and you will hopefully get a concise answer.

Around 95% of jewelry is still being purchased in retail stores many appraisers assign values relative to that majority market. However, appraisers differ. Some estimate value according to whatever market the piece was purchased in (and may examine the seller’s invoice to do this) but most still base their valuation on pricing at average retail stores. With the transparency the internet brings there are now appraisers like Rich Sherwood who provides three separate valuations for their clients; one based on internet pricing, a second based on average retail and a third based on upscale retail. I am in favor of this approach, as it gives the consumer added flexibility when securing insurance.

John,
This is a timely mention of real world pricing. I''ve been having a similar discussion with my appraisal clients for a couple of years regarding this 3-tiered
valuation approach. Internet pricing (usually the lower price) oftentimes is close to "low" retail prices. Then, there is the "average" retail and "high" retail. The "average" retail value works in many instances but due to the volatility of the metals market and increases in better higher grade diamonds, "high" retail may be the correct level. "High " DOES NOT mean overvalued or over inflated, however. It''s a constant changing environment and I''m obsessed with obtaining the most current pricing information for my clients. I know my PS appraiser colleagues are also monitoring prices on a daily basis.


www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[John P]

Thanks Jeff. All you added is right-on. I've seen you guys in action and it reminds me of investment bankers cross-referencing tickers.

Pulchra, the credentials of your appraiser are solid and the assessment may be accurate. However the fact that he is involved in the selling of gems & jewelry will compromise his perceived independence to many people. Good luck on the meeting and keep us updated.

 

[oldminer]

Date: 10/4/2008 6:00:35 AM
Author: John Pollard
Thanks Jeff. All you added is right-on. I''ve seen you guys in action and it reminds me of investment bankers cross-referencing tickers.

Pulchra, the credentials of your appraiser are solid and the assessment may be accurate. However the fact that he is involved in the selling of gems & jewelry will compromise his perceived independence to many people. Good luck on the meeting and keep us updated.

"However the fact that he is involved in the selling of gems & jewelry will compromise his perceived independence to many people."


The above quote taken from John''s reply is key. I would strengthen it by removing "perceived" and "to many people".


When you ask a retailer for an appraisal of something you recently bought elsewhere it is extremely difficult for them to give you a proper report. They are not "independent" no matter how they might try to do the right thing and many don''t try so hard. I have never been a retailer, but have watched for 40 plus years that competing retailers have a terrible habit of verbalizing contempt or creating biased appraisals against their fellow merchants. It must work or they wouldn''t do it, but it is a practice that eventually will hurt them and the entire business. With the open nature of information today, this sort of mean competition is becoming a thing of the past. When you see how the vendors on Pricescope are succeeding in an open environment, rich with information and without hurting one another, it makes me feel that we are coming into a new and improved era of business.


One must expect the sales staff of a firm to use the report which comes with the diamond they are selling as truthful. Many of the sales people don''t have any idea of how to grade a diamond and that is exactly why these reports are given to them. It would be very rare to find a truly qualified diamond grader at the retail selling level in a chain store and even rarer to find one with the desire to argue with a grading report being used to make a sale.


You would much more expect another retailer or an independent appraiser to have an opinion which differes from a grading report. Reports have enough subjectivity that a slightly different opinion is rather commonplace and not alarming. I sure hope the matter can be resolved.

 

[pulchra007]

Thank you all for your help. . .have a great day!

 

[arjunajane]

Pulchra, I don''t have much to add seeing as you have received advice from some of the best in this thread.
However I just wanted to reiterate that your jeweller may not put much weight on your second appraisal, seeing as it comes from one of their competitors.
If you are interested in obtaining a truely independent appraisal, you can use the resources tab at the top of this page to source one in your area.

I hope the situation is resolved to you and your Fi''s satisfaction, and congrats on your engagement! We would love to see photos of the ring if you decide to keep it.

 

[pulchra007]

Here is a pictures

 

[pulchra007]

ok nvm that link it doesn''t work . .

try this



-thanks again!

 

[pulchra007]

Date: 10/5/2008 4:12:44 AM
Author: arjunajane
Pulchra, I don''t have much to add seeing as you have received advice from some of the best in this thread.

However I just wanted to reiterate that your jeweller may not put much weight on your second appraisal, seeing as it comes from one of their competitors.

If you are interested in obtaining a truely independent appraisal, you can use the resources tab at the top of this page to source one in your area.


I hope the situation is resolved to you and your Fi''s satisfaction, and congrats on your engagement! We would love to see photos of the ring if you decide to keep it.

Know what is really sad. . . there are no independent appraisers listed in SC on this site. . . so sad

thanks again!

 

[stone-cold11]

There are 2 each in NC and GA, so depends on which is nearer to you I guess? Or you could send it to one of the appraisers who comment on PS?