Did you let your baby sleep on his or her tummy?

[Pandora II]

A chap called James McKenna has done some very interesting research on babies and sleep which is well worth a read.

http://nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/

http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/articles/Cambridge%20Handbook%20of%20Child%20Development.pdf

 

[swimmer]

E was a tummy sleeper, there just was no way he would sleep on his back. I can't imagine what life would have been like if we had followed instructions. I'd have killed him outright in a sleep deprived accident or "accident."

When he was tiny we wedged him between two firm couch pillows so he had to sleep on his side -swaddled of course. But eventually he slept swaddled in the co-sleeper (4wks to 6mths) on his tummy. The pedi told us that this was why E never had to do tummytime and could hold his head up and look around at a young age. Babies didn't have to do tummytime till it was mandated that they sleep on their backs. As someone else mentioned earlier, I think it had something to do with a really strong startle reflex -we swaddled him till he was crawling and sometimes still do if he refuses to sleep and is going wild. I'm also a stats gal as you know and I wonder how many SIDS deaths were actually suffocating deaths that no one wanted to call suffocation...ya know?

Good luck and hugs.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Swimmer thanks for chiming in! And good to see you, its been a while! so you swaddled your son when he was on his tummy? I have not been doing this and would worry it would impede his freedom of motion too much if he needed to move his head. But then, he is pretty small still. Not sure what will happen when he is older and more mobile and may need some swaddling.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I didn't want to admit it publicly but since Swimmer came out I should too. We also swaddled when he was on his tummy. Once he got older and was more mobile (i.e., we found him rolling down the inclined mattress to the bottom of the crib) we unswaddled. The full frontal body contact with the mattress negated the startle reflex and we had no issues. We went from a full miracle blanket swaddle to a half swaddle (just his arms), to nothing with no problems.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have been doing some more research on this stuff and have found some interesting information (from http://www.sidscanada.org/stats.html):

Caution: Stats can be very misleading. Each province has its own criteria for labeling infant and childhood deaths.

In Ontario, an infant’s death can only be called a SIDS death if the baby dies with outside stressors: bedding, tummy sleep and co-sleeping to name a few. All other deaths are referred to as SUD- Sudden Unexpectant Death.

Some provinces use different names- SIDS, Consistent with SIDS, True SIDS, Unexplained, Undetermined, Natural, and the list continues.

For a true number of deaths, you would have to add all categories together.

Please remember, the definition of SIDS changed in 2000 so it is impossible to compare deaths prior to 2000 with those of today. Yes, the SIDS rate has been lowered but to what extent is difficult to determine because of the definition change.

***

I find the second paragraph very strange because it makes the link between SIDS and cosleeping or tummy sleeping nonsensical because it is part of the definition. The change in SIDS definition from 2000 onwards is also notewrothy because the strongest research in favour of back sleeping is the research suggesting a decrease in SIDS deaths post-back-to-sleep-campaigne, which started around the year 2000 or a little prior.

 

[Sabine]

When we were in the throes of sleep hell, I did try letting Jackson sleep on his tummy for a nap (he was around 2 months or so). He also seemed to have a major startle reflex and slept best tightly swaddled, but after 2 months no swaddle could hold him for long. I think I got maybe 1 or 2 good naps out of him swaddled on his stomach. But my dh was really against it, and we argued about it for a while. Eventually I got dh to ok him napping at least on his stomach as long as I was in the room. But at that point, overnight we had started letting him sleep swaddled on my chest (and I was in a slightly propped up position, so he was on his stomach on my chest if that makes sense), and when I tried to put him down for naps, he wouldn't sleep well again. So I ended up holding him on my chest while he was swaddled for all his naps and overnight until we sleep trained at 4 months.

I'm due on Sept. 16th, and we got the Fisher Price Rock and Play that a pp mentioned, and if we have sleep problems I'm hoping this might help.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Dreamer, I am suspicious of the stats, too. Back when my first two kids were born, babies were put on their tummies to sleep. I am not sure the need is as great to swaddle in that position because the arms are down against the mattress. I think the feeling of insecurity would be much greater when lying on the back thus making swaddling more necessary. It was certainly not common for an infant to die from SIDS back then, and I still think suffocation might have been the cause of most and others were not caused by sleep position. What happens when a back sleeping baby spits up? Can they not be in danger of choking on their backs? Removal of items that could cause suffocation makes the most sense to me if the baby is sleeping on his tummy.

I am really of the opinion that tummy sleeping isn't nearly as dangerous as the baby sleeping in bed with the parents. But that mommy-guilt thing is powerful. I admire those who are able to look at the evidence objectively and make their own decisions.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

When we were in the throes of sleep hell, I did try letting Jackson sleep on his tummy for a nap (he was around 2 months or so). He also seemed to have a major startle reflex and slept best tightly swaddled, but after 2 months no swaddle could hold him for long. I think I got maybe 1 or 2 good naps out of him swaddled on his stomach. But my dh was really against it, and we argued about it for a while. Eventually I got dh to ok him napping at least on his stomach as long as I was in the room. But at that point, overnight we had started letting him sleep swaddled on my chest (and I was in a slightly propped up position, so he was on his stomach on my chest if that makes sense), and when I tried to put him down for naps, he wouldn't sleep well again. So I ended up holding him on my chest while he was swaddled for all his naps and overnight until we sleep trained at 4 months.

I'm due on Sept. 16th, and we got the Fisher Price Rock and Play that a pp mentioned, and if we have sleep problems I'm hoping this might help.

Sabine, I didn't know you were expecting again! Congratulations!

 

[swimmer]

Also congrats to Sabine!

Dreamer, (hi, good to see you too!) I keep reading that statement and remain confused...and convinced that now the SIDS decrease is a statistical artifact. E had great neck control at birth, something about 42 weeks maybe? So he could turn his head from side to side while on his tummy swaddled, but we put him on his side while he was tiny just in case and because the pedi asked and I felt like we had to have him on his back. When I confessed to the pedi she said that side seeping was fine but to not block his airway...yeah, ok, fair enough. Ha, love that I got HH to come out of the closet. I can't really remember about swaddling, I feel like there was a time we didn't swaddle him and then it became apparent that he needed it again, just as he got big enough for the mb. Who knows, I can't remember anything anymore.

And anyone who says that they couldn't keep their kid swaddled, please fly me out to you, I can swaddle anything and so can you. My parent's neurotic lab is afraid of thunderstorms so we swaddled her for years, much like pressure helps calm many people with various forms of Autism... Anyway, if a full grown lab can be swaddled, your infant can be contained I promise.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Is there an age or milestone at which a parent should worry less about letting baby sleep on tummy? I know SIDS risk is supposed to decline dramatically at 6 months. And, I know risk should decrease when babies can roll over on their own, right? And, there's nothing you can do to stop them from sleeping on their tummies at that point, unless you monitor them and roll them back all night, right?

My baby is 6.5 months, can roll over, flips her head back and forth when she's on her tummy, but she will also shmoosh (sp?) her face into our matress during naps, which traumatizes me for night sleeping (even when she is in her crib, which is now side-carred to our bed) when I can't monitor her regularly. Should I be concerned about suffocation risk still? And, what about loose blankets? Still no loose blankets, right?

 

[Pandora II]

Is there an age or milestone at which a parent should worry less about letting baby sleep on tummy? I know SIDS risk is supposed to decline dramatically at 6 months. And, I know risk should decrease when babies can roll over on their own, right? And, there's nothing you can do to stop them from sleeping on their tummies at that point, unless you monitor them and roll them back all night, right?

My baby is 6.5 months, can roll over, flips her head back and forth when she's on her tummy, but she will also shmoosh (sp?) her face into our matress during naps, which traumatizes me for night sleeping (even when she is in her crib, which is now side-carred to our bed) when I can't monitor her regularly. Should I be concerned about suffocation risk still? And, what about loose blankets? Still no loose blankets, right?

LV, in the UK we are advised loose blankets from the start - the advice is to put the baby with their feet at the bottom of the crib so they can't move under them and then pull the blanket up to under their arms height.

Lots of people prefer sleep sacks like the Grobag instead though.

 

[Dreamer_D]

LV I have looked and looked at the evidence about this and it is all a big fat mess. First of all, suffocation and SIDS are not he same. By your daughter's age I cannot imagine true suffocation is an issue. Still, a sleep sack is the best thing instead of blankets, its more comfortable and safer. Second, everything I read and heard from health care providers says when your kid can roll over just let them sleep how they like. In that sense, the sleep safe guidlines are sort of wackadoo since most kids roll at 4-6 months and prefer their tummies it seems.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Thanks Pandora and Dreamer. We do use sleep sacks, but she has a blankie that she seems to like a lot. She is a huge cuddler, which is one of the reasons why she winds up co-sleeping with us often, even though I am not totally comfortable with it (mainly because I am a very deep sleeper and also because she will move so that she is snugged up right next to me. I wake in a bit of a panic that subsides as soon as I see she is ok.) So, that's what had me wondering about when loose blankets are safe. Oh, and that's why we've side-carred the crib -- so she can still be close, and less than arm's reach away, but also hopefully get used to sleeping in her crib, then maybe slowly move away from the bed and eventually into her own room. Baby steps, right?

Pandora - I was reading an article this morning (because I obsess about this topic) and references were made to recommendations that babies be put to sleep with feet at bottom of the crib, and I wasn't totally getting it. In fact, I'm still not. Is it because they can only inch backward and not forward, so they are unable to get under the blanket? Can't they move the blanket with their arms? Oh, and I'm about to order a grobag off of ebay! I like the colorful prints! We have a few halo sleep sacks, so it'll be nice to have a little variety. Thanks for mentioning it!

Dreamer - Thanks. Yes, I know they are different. I guess I was just wondering if suffocation risk also decreases around the same time. I mean, it has to at some point, right? Just not sure when. And, of course, I still worry about SIDS because it is, by its nature, an unknown. Fortunately, my DH worries A LOT less than me. Hopefully, S will take after him in that regard!

 

[Kunzite]

LV - I don't have any answers to your questions, but if S smooshes her face during naps I thought you'd appreciate this photo. I took it with my iPhone on the video monitor to show DH how O was sleeping during his nap a month or so ago..... Not much you can do my friend!!

 

[swimmer]

Love nap face squishing!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Kunzite - I'm not sure how O manages to be supercute even with his face smooshed, but he does! That's such a cute photo!!

 

[Lanie]

A sleeps face down as well!

 

[Dreamer_D]

That pic is so cute. I am calling the SIDS police though and reporting you Kunzite!

 

[Kunzite]

That pic is so cute. I am calling the SIDS police though and reporting you Kunzite!

Dreamer, you jest but when we did our daycare tour we asked about tummy sleeping and they told us that by law they are required to make the babies sleep on their backs! So if a baby rolls over to their tummy they are required to roll them over. I guess if a state worker comes in and finds a baby sleeping on their tummy they can get in a lot of trouble. Lucky for us the girls in the infant room don't seem to mind taking the risk and they'll let O sleep however he fell asleep. The irony is that they allow all of the loose blankets (and toys) you want in the crib and looked at us like we were from another planet when we brought in a sleep sack instead!

 

[Dreamer_D]

That pic is so cute. I am calling the SIDS police though and reporting you Kunzite!

Dreamer, you jest but when we did our daycare tour we asked about tummy sleeping and they told us that by law they are required to make the babies sleep on their backs! So if a baby rolls over to their tummy they are required to roll them over. I guess if a state worker comes in and finds a baby sleeping on their tummy they can get in a lot of trouble. Lucky for us the girls in the infant room don't seem to mind taking the risk and they'll let O sleep however he fell asleep. The irony is that they allow all of the loose blankets (and toys) you want in the crib and looked at us like we were from another planet when we brought in a sleep sack instead!

Wow! I don't think they do that at our infant programme at our daycare, but the babies are older because of mat leave in our country. At 10 months, our son was the youngest by far, so it is less of a concern.

I guess I can understand them needing to cover their butts. Imagine if your own child dies of SIDS in their care and they had "allowed" him to sleep on his tummy? Or the guilt they would feel. It's bad enough as a parent to take the risk (bad as in feeling nervous about it).

But that picture is still funny. Why do babies want to sleep like that?? It does not seem comfy at all.

 

[Kunzite]

Kunzite - I'm not sure how O manages to be supercute even with his face smooshed, but he does! That's such a cute photo!!

It's all in the fluffy booty

 

[Kunzite]

Dreamer - I should clarify, they don't put small babies that aren't rolling yet on their tummies, they just don't roll the bigger babies that get themselves onto their tummies back over if they know you're okay with it.

I can't say much about sleeping face down though because I totally do it! I'm that person with pillow marks all over my face!