Did I get taken for a ride?

[GIJoeCam]

Sorry for the long-winded first post, but I''m disturbed by my own indecision here....

Been lurking here for a few weeks, but, of course, I didn''t discover these forums until after I had set the ball rolling for an E-ring for my girlfriend (soon to be fiancee, hopefully!)

I was referred to a jewelry distributor that lives locally (whose name I won''t mention here) who seemed on the up-and-up, and came highly recommended by a few different close, personal friends. He apparently is a part-owner of a jewelry manufacturing company worth billions of dollars and sells direct to personal customers and their referrals on the side. Everything seemed on the up-and-up. He had his people make me a custom ring, and let me see the wax before it was cast (which was a good thing as there were a couple of changes needed for it to meet my vision). I thought everything was all set, until I had some spare time tonight and started reading some more about the stones.

I''m usually a pretty savvy customer for all purchases, but I admit, this time I was in over my head. I did a lot of reading and research online ahead of time, and sat down to talk details with a couple other local jewelers face to face, and got a halfway decent education on everyone''s favorite lump of coal. I thought I knew what to expect, or at least had a decent idea anyways.

I picked up the ring yesterday. The short version is it''s a 3-stone, .70 CT center, two .33 CT sides, and six .05 channel-set for a total of 1.60. The center stone was selected for me sight-unseen, as I trusted the guy (again, he came highly recommended by three close, personal friends). After looking over the paperwork, here was what I ended up with:

EGL-USA Diamond Certificate: (I thought I was getting a GIA.... should I be worried right there?)
Weight: .70CT
Shape and Cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.60-5.57 x 3.58mm
Proportions:
Depth: 64.1%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15.4%
Pavilion: 43.5%
Girdle: Medium to Thick Faceted

Culet: None

Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good

Clarity Grade: SI1

Color Grade: G

Fluorescence: None

(the sketch of the inclusions has a handful of ever-so-slight little red specs on it.... It''s not something I''d ever see without some MUCH better glasses, but no glaring points)

I guess the first thing I should ask is, "Did I get a decent stone?" (OK, maybe I just need some reassurance that she''ll love it)

Now, one of the things that alarms me is that he also gave me a ''Consultation of Appraisal'' form from the Universal Gemological Services stating that the center stone''s estimated retail replacement value is $5120.... does that seem a bit high to anyone else? Or are BlueNile''s prices just that competetive?? (I paid less than that for the entire ring) Did I just get an excellent stone in an excellent custom ring for an excellent price? Is he high-balling the estimate/appraisal? (He said it was going to be estimated at around $8000) Given EGL''s reputation around here, should I have insisted on a GIA rated stone of the equivalent ratings?

It''s making me queasy

wondering if I made the right choice in trusting him.... Don''t get me wrong, aside from the stone selection, I''m very happy with the way the rest of the ring turned out.... I''m just worried that I could have done better on my stone selection.... gotten more ''bang for the buck'' if you will.....

Am I just losing it?? Being overly paranoid? It''s probably the biggest investment I''ve ever made, on one of the smallest things I''ve ever bought, and it''s just got me worried....

If I''m losing it, please tell me. If I ''Dun Good'', please let me know. I don''t want to spend a lifetime looking at it and thinking, "I should''a, would''a or could''a"...

Thanks a billion everyone!

-Joe

 

[indecisive]

Can you take the stone back? if you can''t then don''t bother trying to find out if you got a good deal. Just enjoy it! I am no expert but I would say if you can take it back do it! I ran it thought the HCA cut advisor and this is what it said.
Factor Grade
Light Return Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Good
Total Visual Performance 4.6 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion

I think to have an really nice performing stone you want under a 2 HCA score. If you got to the top of the page you can enter the specs and see what the prices would be for a similar stone from one of the reputable, PS approved vendors. Again, I don''t know nealry as much as some of the people on here so hopefully they can help you more. Good luck!

 

[Slykat12]

Stone seems to deep but I am not an expert. Is is eye clean? Do You think it sparkles well? Do you have a photo?
Don't ever trust their appraisal can u spell bias!!!

I think your girl will love anything from you. But I do think you could got a nicer stone online for the same price.

 

[seeker78]

I would say if you can return it, then DEFINATELY get another center stone. Other than that, you said you like the rest of the ring, so just change the stone. Does it have much sparkle to it?

 

[Mara]

to be honest...

EGL USA is not the best but it's better than EGL Israel or another EGL lab. GIA or AGS would be better, aka more accurate in grading typically.

the depth on this stone is WAY too deep at 64%.

i don't like the thick girdle. it should be medium or thin-medium or maybe even med-slightly thick but thick means its losing even more diameter in the girdle.

the diameter of this stone is probably facing up to look to your eye more like a .60c stone than the .70c stone it is.

i don't know what you paid but we have said this thousands of times on here...why would you just trust some jeweler recommended by a bunch of friends who said he was great. are these gemologist friends? are they friends who know what a well-cut diamond really looks like? we have been suckered in by a friend of a friend jeweler as well but never again. this may be your eye-opening experience.

that said, what is your recourse? do you love the ring? it's custom...so i guess you can't really return it anyway. so what can you do? can you return the center stone and ask him to source you another one to put into the ring?

not to be really harsh but it drives me insane reading posts like yours. you found this site weeks ago or at least you said you did a bunch of research and reading on it before you sat down with jewelers. yet you just blindly trusted someone to choose a stone sight unseen without specs and just NOW you started looking at the specs and worrying? why would you get a custom ring, spend the time to look at a wax and all of that, basically double checking the RING itself, and TOTALLY IGNORE the fact checking on most important part of the ring?!?!?!! the center stone!

just don't get it. but if you do want to return it, i hope you can. if not, enjoy it.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/2/2006 11:12:11 PM
Author:GIJoeCam
Sorry for the long-winded first post, but I'm disturbed by my own indecision here....

Been lurking here for a few weeks, but, of course, I didn't discover these forums until after I had set the ball rolling for an E-ring for my girlfriend (soon to be fiancee, hopefully!)

I was referred to a jewelry distributor that lives locally (whose name I won't mention here) who seemed on the up-and-up, and came highly recommended by a few different close, personal friends. He apparently is a part-owner of a jewelry manufacturing company worth billions of dollars and sells direct to personal customers and their referrals on the side. Everything seemed on the up-and-up. He had his people make me a custom ring, and let me see the wax before it was cast (which was a good thing as there were a couple of changes needed for it to meet my vision). I thought everything was all set, until I had some spare time tonight and started reading some more about the stones.

I'm usually a pretty savvy customer for all purchases, but I admit, this time I was in over my head. I did a lot of reading and research online ahead of time, and sat down to talk details with a couple other local jewelers face to face, and got a halfway decent education on everyone's favorite lump of coal. I thought I knew what to expect, or at least had a decent idea anyways.

I picked up the ring yesterday. The short version is it's a 3-stone, .70 CT center, two .33 CT sides, and six .05 channel-set for a total of 1.60. The center stone was selected for me sight-unseen, as I trusted the guy (again, he came highly recommended by three close, personal friends). After looking over the paperwork, here was what I ended up with:

EGL-USA Diamond Certificate: (I thought I was getting a GIA.... should I be worried right there?)
Weight: .70CT
Shape and Cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.60-5.57 x 3.58mm
Proportions:
Depth: 64.1%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15.4%
Pavilion: 43.5%
Girdle: Medium to Thick Faceted

Culet: None

Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good

Clarity Grade: SI1

Color Grade: G

Fluorescence: None

(the sketch of the inclusions has a handful of ever-so-slight little red specs on it.... It's not something I'd ever see without some MUCH better glasses, but no glaring points)

I guess the first thing I should ask is, 'Did I get a decent stone?' (OK, maybe I just need some reassurance that she'll love it)

Now, one of the things that alarms me is that he also gave me a 'Consultation of Appraisal' form from the Universal Gemological Services stating that the center stone's estimated retail replacement value is $5120.... does that seem a bit high to anyone else? Or are BlueNile's prices just that competetive?? (I paid less than that for the entire ring) Did I just get an excellent stone in an excellent custom ring for an excellent price? Is he high-balling the estimate/appraisal? (He said it was going to be estimated at around $8000) Given EGL's reputation around here, should I have insisted on a GIA rated stone of the equivalent ratings?

It's making me queasy

wondering if I made the right choice in trusting him.... Don't get me wrong, aside from the stone selection, I'm very happy with the way the rest of the ring turned out.... I'm just worried that I could have done better on my stone selection.... gotten more 'bang for the buck' if you will.....

Am I just losing it?? Being overly paranoid? It's probably the biggest investment I've ever made, on one of the smallest things I've ever bought, and it's just got me worried....

If I'm losing it, please tell me. If I 'Dun Good', please let me know. I don't want to spend a lifetime looking at it and thinking, 'I should'a, would'a or could'a'...

Thanks a billion everyone!

-Joe

It's on the deep side definitely. EGL USA is getting better in their grading. Most say they are not as strict as GIA or AGS, Does the stone sparkle, do you love it?? Coming here after the fact is hard. If you don't love it, then return it if you can. I would love to see some pics. Numbers are not worn on the hand, so if it's beautiful to you no worries. I wish you had come here sooner. You lurked but didn't ask for advice. I wish you had. We could have helped. Letting someone pick a stone sight unseen is beyond me. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[belle]

hey joe

welcome to ps!

Date: 3/2/2006 11:12:11 PM
Author:GIJoeCam

EGL-USA Diamond Certificate: (I thought I was getting a GIA.... should I be worried right there?)

if you just assumed you were gettiing a gia graded stone, then no, you shouldn''t be worried. if he specifically told you that the stone would be gia graded, then you have a right to be upset.

Date: 3/2/2006 11:12:11 PM
Author:GIJoeCam

EGL-USA Diamond Certificate: (I thought I was getting a GIA.... should I be worried right there?)
Weight: .70CT
Shape and Cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.60-5.57 x 3.58mm
Proportions:
Depth: 64.1%
Table: 57%
Crown: 15.4%
Pavilion: 43.5%
Girdle: Medium to Thick Faceted

Culet: None

Finish
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good

Clarity Grade: SI1

Color Grade: G

Fluorescence: None

(the sketch of the inclusions has a handful of ever-so-slight little red specs on it.... It''s not something I''d ever see without some MUCH better glasses, but no glaring points)

I guess the first thing I should ask is, ''Did I get a decent stone?'' (OK, maybe I just need some reassurance that she''ll love it)

it''s not a top cut, but i would say you probably got a decent stone.

Date: 3/2/2006 11:12:11 PM
Author:GIJoeCam

Now, one of the things that alarms me is that he also gave me a ''Consultation of Appraisal'' form from the Universal Gemological Services stating that the center stone''s estimated retail replacement value is $5120.... does that seem a bit high to anyone else? Or are BlueNile''s prices just that competetive?? (I paid less than that for the entire ring) Did I just get an excellent stone in an excellent custom ring for an excellent price? Is he high-balling the estimate/appraisal? (He said it was going to be estimated at around $8000) Given EGL''s reputation around here, should I have insisted on a GIA rated stone of the equivalent ratings?

the appraisal valuation is ridiculously high. it happens often though, your case is not unusual.
if you are happy with how the stone looks, don''t continue questioning yourself or the grading report. it''s not worth the headache!

Date: 3/2/2006 11:12:11 PM
Author:GIJoeCam

It''s making me queasy

wondering if I made the right choice in trusting him.... Don''t get me wrong, aside from the stone selection, I''m very happy with the way the rest of the ring turned out.... I''m just worried that I could have done better on my stone selection.... gotten more ''bang for the buck'' if you will.....

Am I just losing it?? Being overly paranoid? It''s probably the biggest investment I''ve ever made, on one of the smallest things I''ve ever bought, and it''s just got me worried....

If I''m losing it, please tell me. If I ''Dun Good'', please let me know. I don''t want to spend a lifetime looking at it and thinking, ''I should''a, would''a or could''a''...

it is common to have that sinking feeling of buyers remorse after a significant purchase such as this. could you have done better? perhaps, but do you look at the ring and love it? that is what matters.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Joe

can you return the center stone? if not...end of the story
another one of those friend of a friend diamond deal

a nice G SI1 .70 ct with GIA report would cost about $2800

 

[strmrdr]

Sounds to me like what you paid might have been a fair price for what you got.
You just didnt get high quality diamonds.

 

[blodthecat]

Hi Joe,

Exactly what DF said.....If you can change that centre stone, then do it ASAP. Otherwise, end of story.

But tell us how it looks to ''your'' eyes. Are you happy with it ? That''s all that matters at the end of the day.

We''d love to see some pictures Joe.

Blod

 

[GIJoeCam]

Date: 3/2/2006 11:31:35 PM
Author: Mara
to be honest...

EGL USA is not the best but it''s better than EGL Israel or another EGL lab. GIA or AGS would be better, aka more accurate in grading typically.

the depth on this stone is WAY too deep at 64%.

i don''t like the thick girdle. it should be medium or thin-medium or maybe even med-slightly thick but thick means its losing even more diameter in the girdle.

the diameter of this stone is probably facing up to look to your eye more like a .60c stone than the .70c stone it is.

i don''t know what you paid but we have said this thousands of times on here...why would you just trust some jeweler recommended by a bunch of friends who said he was great. are these gemologist friends? are they friends who know what a well-cut diamond really looks like? we have been suckered in by a friend of a friend jeweler as well but never again. this may be your eye-opening experience.

that said, what is your recourse? do you love the ring? it''s custom...so i guess you can''t really return it anyway. so what can you do? can you return the center stone and ask him to source you another one to put into the ring?

not to be really harsh but it drives me insane reading posts like yours. you found this site weeks ago or at least you said you did a bunch of research and reading on it before you sat down with jewelers. yet you just blindly trusted someone to choose a stone sight unseen without specs and just NOW you started looking at the specs and worrying? why would you get a custom ring, spend the time to look at a wax and all of that, basically double checking the RING itself, and TOTALLY IGNORE the fact checking on most important part of the ring?!?!?!! the center stone!

just don''t get it. but if you do want to return it, i hope you can. if not, enjoy it.

Easy there slugger.... as I already mentioned, I had already set the ball rolling before I found the site.

As for why I trusted the person, who else should I have trusted? Myself? I know bupkus about diamonds, and freely admit that. A salesman in a local shop? I don''t know him from Adam either. Someone my friends recommended very highly who is a distributor for the shops? What would be the logical choice? If you were looking for a new car, would you pick a dealer out of the phone book, or would you go visit one that friends and family had bought from time and time again?

I think I made a logical choice. Not necessarily a GOOD choice in retrospect, but a logical one based on my knowledge at the time.

As for the stone itself, can anyone give me a good estimate on the retail price difference between the stone I got and an equivalent-rated GIA stone? All the search engines I can find list the GIA ratings.... I may be able to take it back and have the center stone replaced... he seemed pretty willing to work with me on anything. I might try and take him up on that now that I''m a little wiser.....

Mara, you''re spot-on about the appearance.... It does, in fact , look more like a 1/3 ct than a 3/4 ct. However, it doesn''t have the sparkle or brilliance I was expecting it to.

I''ve took some pics last night, but the battery on the camera died, so I wasn''t able to up-load them. I''ll see what I can do tonight when I get home tonight.

At this point I''m contemplating asking for the better stone.... either a better cut EGL, or an equivalent GIA-rated stone.

Oh, and yes, she''ll be happy with it either way. Heck, she''s told me she''d be happy with a ring out of a Cracker Jack box as long as I''m on one knee when I give it to her!

Thanks, gang!

-Joe

 

[Slykat12]

A diamond like a car is an important purchase. For these things it is best to not go in so blind but with some knowledge. You coud have came to this site prior to the final purchase for good advice. We are consumers and not sales people.We make no money off you.

Who do you think will be more honest? I would take it back and would not even consider an equal quality gia as it is a poor cut. I would request a jamming cut for my love!

 

[GIJoeCam]

What''s a jamming cut?

(be gentle to the newbie)

-Joe

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/3/2006 12:33:28 PM
Author: GIJoeCam
What''s a jamming cut?


(be gentle to the newbie)


-Joe

Kimberly just means find the best cut you can. If you''ve spent any amount of time here you''d know that it''s all about cut, cut, cut. That''s what''s going to give the stone life. You can compromise on color and clarity because a well cut stone can mask those issues, a poorly cut stone doesn''t hide as much and many times is lifeless.

 

[Slykat12]

hehehe yep a jamming rockin cut dude!!!

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/3/2006 9:19:47 AM
Author: GIJoeCam

Date: 3/2/2006 11:31:35 PM
Author: Mara
to be honest...

EGL USA is not the best but it's better than EGL Israel or another EGL lab. GIA or AGS would be better, aka more accurate in grading typically.

the depth on this stone is WAY too deep at 64%.

i don't like the thick girdle. it should be medium or thin-medium or maybe even med-slightly thick but thick means its losing even more diameter in the girdle.

the diameter of this stone is probably facing up to look to your eye more like a .60c stone than the .70c stone it is.

i don't know what you paid but we have said this thousands of times on here...why would you just trust some jeweler recommended by a bunch of friends who said he was great. are these gemologist friends? are they friends who know what a well-cut diamond really looks like? we have been suckered in by a friend of a friend jeweler as well but never again. this may be your eye-opening experience.

that said, what is your recourse? do you love the ring? it's custom...so i guess you can't really return it anyway. so what can you do? can you return the center stone and ask him to source you another one to put into the ring?

not to be really harsh but it drives me insane reading posts like yours. you found this site weeks ago or at least you said you did a bunch of research and reading on it before you sat down with jewelers. yet you just blindly trusted someone to choose a stone sight unseen without specs and just NOW you started looking at the specs and worrying? why would you get a custom ring, spend the time to look at a wax and all of that, basically double checking the RING itself, and TOTALLY IGNORE the fact checking on most important part of the ring?!?!?!! the center stone!

just don't get it. but if you do want to return it, i hope you can. if not, enjoy it.

Easy there slugger.... as I already mentioned, I had already set the ball rolling before I found the site.

Yes but you also said you did a bunch of reading and research before even sitting down with the jewelers. So where did you do this research? And even if you had already given the go ahead to the jeweler and THEN found this site, reading up on here for all of an hour would have told you that maybe you should have given some additional thought to letting this guy just blindly find you a stone sight unseen with no numbers or anything. Getting the ball rolling on a custom ring takes what a few weeks? You had alot of time to bring yourself up to speed OR bring us PS'ers this question a few weeks ago. Maybe before you picked up the ring or had the stone even set.

As for why I trusted the person, who else should I have trusted? Myself? I know bupkus about diamonds, and freely admit that. A salesman in a local shop? I don't know him from Adam either. Someone my friends recommended very highly who is a distributor for the shops? What would be the logical choice? If you were looking for a new car, would you pick a dealer out of the phone book, or would you go visit one that friends and family had bought from time and time again?

You really don't want me to answer this do you?!

I'm a PS'er! Anyway, If I was buying a car I would not pick a dealer out of the phone book OR visit one that friends and family had bought from time and time again. Just because they are my friends and family don't mean they aren't ever stupid about choices or purchasing. Sorry but true. I would do my own research and probably most of it online.There are so many consumer friendly sites out there like PS for every other type of thing you may want to buy, personally I feel if anyone just blindly walks into any store or shop and buys trusting someone 10000% who wants to take their money for whatever product, they are really asking for whatever they may get. But that is just my own research-driven personality. I did two months of COUCH research before buying for pete's sake.

Mara, you're spot-on about the appearance.... It does, in fact , look more like a 1/3 ct than a 3/4 ct. However, it doesn't have the sparkle or brilliance I was expecting it to.

I think you mean 2/3 of a ct. If it's not sparkly and brilliant then don't keep it, regardless of the specs. Your eye should be happy with the end result. She will love whatever you give her most likely but do her a favor and give her something that you really know is quality. I would definitely ask for a better stone from the jeweler, GIA or EGL but get involved this time with the finding of the stone and bring PS your stone findings before giving the green light. I am fairly cynical about spending $$, and I don't think I trust ANYONE to just go out there and find me the perfect anything without me checking into it first.

Good luck!!

 

[klavigne]

Hey GIJoe,
I feel for ya Buddy! I really do. But the damage is done so lets cut him some slack, he knows he should have checked here first, whats done is done. He''s here for help so lets offer it to him and not be so condescending, we were all rookies once too!
In any event, if the jeweler was that good with everything else I''d give him a chance top redeem himself. Just bring the ring back and tell him that you''d like a better center stone and see what he suggest. Just tell him it''s not really what you were expecting. He might be more than willing to hook you up. As far as the cert, try to always buy a AGS or GIA stone, all the others are jokes. There is nothing wrong with an SI1 as long as it is "eye clean" but spend the money on the cut and polish. Thats what everyone is going to notice anyway. Not too many people carry around jeweler loupes! I think for the money you paid for that stone you can find something way nicer if you spend some time looking and waiting for what you want. Good Luck and let us know how you make out!!!!

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/3/2006 2:52:44 PM
Author: klavigne
Hey GIJoe,
I feel for ya Buddy! I really do. But the damage is done so lets cut him some slack, he knows he should have checked here first, whats done is done. He's here for help so lets offer it to him and not be so condescending, we were all rookies once too!

In any event, if the jeweler was that good with everything else I'd give him a chance top redeem himself. Just bring the ring back and tell him that you'd like a better center stone and see what he suggest. Just tell him it's not really what you were expecting. He might be more than willing to hook you up. As far as the cert, try to always buy a AGS or GIA stone, all the others are jokes. There is nothing wrong with an SI1 as long as it is 'eye clean' but spend the money on the cut and polish. Thats what everyone is going to notice anyway. Not too many people carry around jeweler loupes! I think for the money you paid for that stone you can find something way nicer if you spend some time looking and waiting for what you want. Good Luck and let us know how you make out!!!!

People ARE offering him help...how they choose to offer it, aka how they state it, is totally their choice as it is their own time they are offering as well as their own experience, as it is his choice (or yours) on whether or not to listen. I was a diamond retard too at one point, ain't nothing but the truth as harsh as it can be when people point it out.

I think all newbies should have to read DF's newbie thread in hangout before posting, esp if they already bought.

 

[jimhwu]

Hi Joe,

I don''t usually post much, but I just want to wish you good luck. If the jeweler is recommended by many friends, then maybe he will be willing to look for comparable stones for you if you express that this one doesn''t seem to do it for you.

I''m sure everyone here are all super savvy consumers who perform tons of research before they buy anything but I''m sure we''ve all made a mistake here and there too. Take it easy on the fellow.

Jim

 

[Rod]

Date: 3/3/2006 2:52:44 PM
Author: klavigne
Hey GIJoe,
I feel for ya Buddy! I really do. But the damage is done so lets cut him some slack, he knows he should have checked here first, whats done is done. He''s here for help so lets offer it to him and not be so condescending, we were all rookies once too!
In any event, if the jeweler was that good with everything else I''d give him a chance top redeem himself. Just bring the ring back and tell him that you''d like a better center stone and see what he suggest. Just tell him it''s not really what you were expecting. He might be more than willing to hook you up. As far as the cert, try to always buy a AGS or GIA stone, all the others are jokes. There is nothing wrong with an SI1 as long as it is ''eye clean'' but spend the money on the cut and polish. Thats what everyone is going to notice anyway. Not too many people carry around jeweler loupes! I think for the money you paid for that stone you can find something way nicer if you spend some time looking and waiting for what you want. Good Luck and let us know how you make out!!!!

Let''s not confuse him further. Cut is extremely important, but I wouldn''t recommend we have him fret about Polish. There aren''t many eyes on the planet that could see the difference between a stone whose polish was rated excellent versus good.

We all question our purchases. Often, we believe we''ve done well and then after we''ve spent the money, we go out and learn more and then we ask other''s if we did OK. I''ve done this, I''m betting most of us have done this.

So, if you''re jeweler is reputable and we have to believe that since many referred you to him, he likely is. Then you should be able to have him source a better center stone for you. We all agree that AGS and GIA are the better grading labs. That said, if he can only provide a stone graded by EGL USA, that doesn''t mean you''ll get a bad diamond. None of the grading labs make or cut diamonds. They just grade them. We''ve come to know that some are more strict in their grading standards. As long as he finds you a stone with better proportions and you see the stone before he sets it and it has the sparkle and brilliance you were hoping for, you''ll have done well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GIJoeCam]

Thanks for the support everyone.....

Yeah, I thought I knew enough to make an informed purchase. I was wrong. The deed is done. Moving on.

After a bunch of contemplation (and kicking myself for not finding this site sooner), here''s where I''m at with all this: I think I''m going to approach him next week (I know he''s out of town on business until Wednesday) and ask about a different center stone, and I like the "this one just doesn''t do it for me" line. I''ll also express that I thought the stone I was getting would be AGS or GIA certified, not the EGL-USA I got and was a little disappointed in that. He seems pretty reasonable, so I think he''ll be willing to work with me a bit on that front. I remember in one of our early discussions, he mentioned that he always aims for ideal cuts, just for that reason, and express that, based on the EGL ratings, I''m not entirely convinced that it''s an ideal cut (thanks to the depth and thickness of the girdle).


Now, here''s the million dollar question: What, exactly, do I need to be looking for in the new stones? (I know, I know.... read and search.... I''ve got all weekend to peruse PS) More importantly, will I be able to see the differences I need to look for? I''d hate to have him lay out four stones on the counter for me, and have to pull an eenie-meenie-miney-moe to make the choice. Given that I have one already to compare it to, will I be able to see the difference with what I''m looking for?


Just thought of another tactic I could take too: I could always go ahead and buy a better stone (from a PS-recommended vendor, of course), then just take it to him at a later date and say, "This was out of a ring her mother had and we''d really like to use it instead," then turn around and sell the one I already have. In fact, I could even do that when they do the band (assuming I go back for it) and my (then-) fiancee probably wouldn''t be any the wiser.... Not quite sure which tactic I''ll take just yet.... Gotta stew on this one over the weekend a bit more.

Keep the feedback coming, gang. I really do appreciate it (good or bad). No need to call me a putz anymore either.... I know I am....

-Joe

 

[Mara]

ixnay on the stone selling...it''s very hard to re-sale a diamond for remotely close to what you paid for it, run a search on that on here as well. if you paid say $3k for it, you''d be lucky to get back about $1k. why would someone buy a diamond from you for close to retail when they could buy from a ''vendor'' that has a buy-back or return policy, and trade-in or whatever other perks. anyway there are a bunch of threads on it.

i would take it back to him and say you want a more ideal cut stone. don''t be afraid to speak up for yourself! this is your money, your purchase, so make it what you want it to be.

in terms of what to look for, well everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a great stone to them, but for me personally, i would look for a depth between 60 and 62, a table between 54 and 56, and get a sarin run on it to find out crown and pavilion angles, my crown prefs are about 34.3-34.8 and pav prefs are about 40.5-40.9. also find a girdle that is more thin-medium or medium or similar, stay away from too thick. lastly i''d focus on VG at least for polish and symm if not ideal or excellent.

i''d give him something like that to gauge...EGL USA or even better GIA or AGS.

then when he brings you 1-2 stones to look at, bring the specs here so people can give their opinions. good luck!!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/3/2006 4:52:08 PM
Author: Mara
ixnay on the stone selling...it''s very hard to re-sale a diamond for remotely close to what you paid for it, run a search on that on here as well. if you paid say $3k for it, you''d be lucky to get back about $1k. why would someone buy a diamond from you for close to retail when they could buy from a ''vendor'' that has a buy-back or return policy, and trade-in or whatever other perks. anyway there are a bunch of threads on it.

i would take it back to him and say you want a more ideal cut stone. don''t be afraid to speak up for yourself! this is your money, your purchase, so make it what you want it to be.

in terms of what to look for, well everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a great stone to them, but for me personally, i would look for a depth between 60 and 62, a table between 54 and 56, and get a sarin run on it to find out crown and pavilion angles, my crown prefs are about 34.3-34.8 and pav prefs are about 40.5-40.9. also find a girdle that is more thin-medium or medium or similar, stay away from too thick. lastly i''d focus on VG at least for polish and symm if not ideal or excellent.

i''d give him something like that to gauge...EGL USA or even better GIA or AGS.

then when he brings you 1-2 stones to look at, bring the specs here so people can give their opinions. good luck!!

That''s what I would do. Very good advice!!!

 

[mrssalvo]

yep, please listen to Mara. Have the jeweler bring in a couple of stones and then bring the specs here and we''ll help you out. I can guarantee you''ll be glad you did..

 

[GIJoeCam]

Oh, and Mara, to answer your questions, the research I did was on a few of the online diamond sites, specifically Blue Nile and Ashford. Neither site says anything about the quality of the grading houses, so I was under the impression that there were no significant differences (and was wrong, I know). Additionally, I''m the last of my circle of friends to be taking the plunge, and hit them all up for advice (hence the way I found this jeweler). They were all rookies once too, and steered me away from a couple of things.

The timing question: I sat down with him to discuss the design I had in mind on a Thursday. The following Wednesday, I looked at the wax. The following Thursday the ring was ready. I didn''t pick it up until this week. Total elapsed time from concept to completion was two weeks (which honestly impressed the heck out of me!!). (he had it an additional week while I was waiting for my tax returns to hit the bank account so I wasn''t spread too thin)

I didn''t discover PS until somewhere between the wax and the ring, and didn''t get to spend some quality time with the site until just Wednesday evening after picking it up. Unfortunately the excellent information to be found on this forum was lost on me until it was too late. That''s neither my fault, nor anyone else''s. It''s just the way it is.

And yes, I meant 2/3 ct, not 1/3.... must''ve fat-fingered the keyboard again. What can I say? It''s a Friday!!

Thanks again!

-Joe

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/3/2006 5:03:43 PM
Author: GIJoeCam
Oh, and Mara, to answer your questions, the research I did was on a few of the online diamond sites, specifically Blue Nile and Ashford. Neither site says anything about the quality of the grading houses, so I was under the impression that there were no significant differences (and was wrong, I know). Additionally, I''m the last of my circle of friends to be taking the plunge, and hit them all up for advice (hence the way I found this jeweler). They were all rookies once too, and steered me away from a couple of things.

The timing question: I sat down with him to discuss the design I had in mind on a Thursday. The following Wednesday, I looked at the wax. The following Thursday the ring was ready. I didn''t pick it up until this week. Total elapsed time from concept to completion was two weeks (which honestly impressed the heck out of me!!). (he had it an additional week while I was waiting for my tax returns to hit the bank account so I wasn''t spread too thin)

I didn''t discover PS until somewhere between the wax and the ring, and didn''t get to spend some quality time with the site until just Wednesday evening after picking it up. Unfortunately the excellent information to be found on this forum was lost on me until it was too late. That''s neither my fault, nor anyone else''s. It''s just the way it is.

And yes, I meant 2/3 ct, not 1/3.... must''ve fat-fingered the keyboard again. What can I say? It''s a Friday!!

Thanks again!

-Joe

LOL! hey as long as there are no Tiffany threads that pop up today, I''m golden!!!

I think that armed with PS at your fingertips, now you will be able to definitely work with your jeweler to find a beautiful diamond.

 

[seeker78]

I agree with Mara, you need to be STRAIGHT with the guy! You don''t owe this guy any favors, and you don''t need to be afraid of hurting his feelings, I mean come on, he''s a saleman, and you need to call him on giving you a poor stone! He must have a return or exchange policy or something... not that I think he would have a problem exchanging it. As for the specs, Mara was right on, and also I would say watch out for him giving you a stone with flouresence to it. You are spending thousands of dollars here, and your girl has to wear this ring for a long time, insist on a great stone my man!

 

[GIJoeCam]

I'd like to do just that (i.e. bring the specs here first), but look at it from his shoes:

I'm in the business. I sell 345-million dollars worth of precious gems every year. I sell this customer what I feel is a nice stone for the money. He comes back after I've designed a one-of-a-kind custom ring for him, and he doesn't think the stone is nice because of a piece of paper that has some specs that are less than ideal. On top of that, he wants to go consult 'his experts' before choosing the replacement stone. I AM an expert. What's he know?

Sure, I know, 'The customer's always right" and all that, but still.... If I was in his shoes, I'd be a little insulted by myself. I'd probably tell myself to find another jeweler. So, now, what tactic do I use to diplomatically ask for (demand) a different stone that more meets my standards? That's the tough part. Like I said before, he seems pretty reasonable.... I just don't think he'll be very open to the whole, "Bring me more stones and then let me go talk to someone else about them" approach.

This is actually a little more serious for me than a car.... a car's going to wear out in a few years and be replaced. This is for the rest of my life. That's why I'm here in the first place. I've seen the light (sparkle??) now.

-Joe

 

[mrssalvo]

I think your idea of telling him you thought the stone was going to be GIA or AGS is a good route to take. Then tell him you''ve been trying to learn a little bit more about diamonds and would like to see some with the specs mara suggested. Once he brings a few in, get the info and tell him you want to sleep on it. you don''t have to say i''m going to go post on a public forum the numbers to see if your scamming me or not

. Hopefully, he''ll respect you for wanting to learn if you go in with that attitude.

 

[Mara]

My goodness, you don''t have to TELL HIM that you are coming here to ask us advice or that you don''t trust him...!!!

Just go tell him you don''t like the stone, how it sparkles or doesn''t and you thought you were getting GIA not EGL.

Then give him the specs you''d like to stay within. Then he says okay I have these two stones. Ask for a cert and a copy of a Sarin. This is all nothing that he should be upset about..many customers do this with their vendors, no issues. Tell him that you need a day or two to think about it. DONE.

I really don''t agree with your ''see it his way''. You got the $$ and he got the stones. That''s how it works. You tell him what you want, he does it. If you really think the way that you wrote (from his perspective), you may have a hard time getting what you want, esp if you feel badly speaking up.

Ever went to a dentist and gotten one opinion, then another for another opinion? Or a DR? That is the same thing here. What he thinks is great, someone else may not agree. But bottom line you said this stone doesn''t really sparkle or look good. To me that is just as telling as it''s crappy numbers.