Did I get a deal?

[haikuginger]

I've been lurking for a while whilst in the process of making a decision on a ring for my girlfriend. My local jeweler had the setting I wanted (Scott Kay M1252), but they didn't seem to have that huge of a diamond selection in stock that was what I was looking for. However, they do a biennial event where they have their diamond buyer come in with a larger set. So, I made an appointment and went in. I was surprised to find out that, rather than have individual stones, they had "parcels" of diamonds, containing a particular color/clarity/weight range with the same price/carat for each diamond in the parcel.

The one thing that made me a bit nervous was the fact that the diamonds weren't certified; however, I got over that because I could look at each one individually and make my own assessment with a full-spectrum lamp, 10x loupe, and a hearts and arrows viewer.

I had originally been looking at something in the .55-.65 carat range, but the buyer didn't have much in that range, so she showed me some diamonds out of the .5 carat/D-H/SI parcel. The largest stones there were around .55, but unfortunately had some nasty black crystal inclusions, and didn't seem to have a very good cut either. So, the buyer pulled out her .75 range/D-H/SI parcel and let me take a look. Again, there were some obvious losers, but one diamond stood out. It appeared eye-clean to within a couple inches, so I took a closer look with the loupe- it had a small cloud inside, but only visible from the underside of the pavilion, and a line along a couple of the upper facets (either a twin line or a scratch) that, on further inspection, was visible with the naked eye if you knew where to look. Definitely an SI, but I'd guess either a low SI1 or high SI2- and no nasty black crystals!

I was pretty impressed with that stone, so I lined it up with the others in the parcel to get an idea of color. It was hands-down the whitest in the lot. The buyer gave her opinion that it was probably an F, and I'd have to agree that it was definitely in the F range; possibly a low E or a high G.

Finally, I took a look under the hearts and arrows viewer; maybe it didn't have the best defined hearts and arrows ever, but they were definitely there.

So, I got the price for it, and bickered it down a couple hundred dollars to about $2000 for .71 total carats. I had kept myself informed on prices for other diamonds online, and this seemed like quite a good deal. Add that to the fact that it lets me support a local jeweler, and that they have a full diamond trade-up program, and I was all too happy to pay.

Pictures will be forthcoming once the ring gets finished, but for now, I just want to ask if anyone has experienced anything like that before. Everything seemed above-board, and I never got any impression that I was being fleeced, but it definitely was not what I went in expecting. Within my (admittedly amateur) grasp of diamond grading, I would have independently made the same grades the buyer did, but it just seemed a little out-of-the-ordinary.

 

[JulieN]

Diamonds without reports cost less.

They sound generously graded...

 

[Gypsy]

What an interesting experience!

I don't know how I'd feel about that. A hearts viewer really isn't the greatest tool for evaluating light return, and light return trumps pattern. A near H&A can have very compromised light return depending on how deep or shallow it is, and what the angles are.

I would buy an idealscope or an ASET and give it a go with that before deciding to keep it. I would have definitely made the sale dependent on an independent appraisal by someone who as an idealscope or an ASET and a SARIN.

Do I think you did well, pricing wise? Not really. You can get a GIA G VS Ex .67 diamond for $2,400 and 400 bucks isn't much for much better clarity and a GIA report http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/diamond_detail.php?id=611116&ref=pricescope , sure it's smaller. But a diamond that's 75 points and has compromised light return will look much smaller, and might face up smaller dimensionally, than a well cut stone that weighs less. The .67 stone scores a 1.9 on the HCA.

If I had about a 2k budget, I'd probably have gone for a certified old cut like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140607586786?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 .83 GIA I SI and offer 2,000-2,200.

I'm not trying to be harsh. I'm sure you had a great time. It sounds like a blast. But the bottom line is-- you are an amateur and didn't have the right tools for all we know that person could have been a complete newbie as well. Even if they were an appraiser, there are kinds, will this one had an agenda-- to sell you a diamond.

All you really know is carat weight and some patterning. That's not a lot to base a purchase on. And, despite your best attempt, it wasn't an educated buy.

I think that if you had paid closer to 1,500 it would have been a potential deal depending on how it appraised out and the light return. But for a few hundred dollars, I'd rather have a GIA certified stone.

Did you at least get a good return policy?

 

[Gypsy]

I can't find one, because most PS vendors don't carry EGL stones so I don't know anyone with a big inventory of EGL stones at 75 points. But honestly, I suspect just looking at the prices of diamonds that you paid more for your uncertified stone than an EGL .75 F SI2 retails for. And with an EGL report at the least you have the angles so you can put them in the HCA.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I was pretty impressed with that stone, so I lined it up with the others in the parcel to get an idea of color. It was hands-down the whitest in the lot. The buyer gave her opinion that it was probably an F, and I'd have to agree that it was definitely in the F range; possibly a low E or a high G.

that don't mean S*****T unless you use GIA master stones. heck,even i can guess within 3 color grades...

 

[haikuginger]

Thanks- I really appreciate your honest opinions! Once I get the ring I'll take a closer look.

I did get a good return policy, but I doubt that I'm going to exercise it- it'd just mean more time waiting for an engagement that has been quite delayed already. What I'll probably do is have my jeweler be on the lookout for a good CERTIFIED stone to exercise my upgrade privileges on, then get the ring reset when I order the matching band- I was planning on getting some engraving done anyway.

Of course, that assumes that the stone is actually a poor performer. Have to wait and see on that, I guess.

I seriously do appreciate your help. I did think that I had got a deal, but I guess not, and the stone's unfortunately not "mind-clean" anymore; but I'd still rather know.

 

[Christina...]

I'm not sure what your upgrade policy looks like but most require you to spend 2x the original purchase price. So $2k becomes 4k. It would make more sense for you to use your return period and have your jeweler look for a certified stone now.

 

[ChrisES]

Remember that you have come for advice to the premier diamond purist website, if I may say so.

I think all the advice you've gotten is good advice, but I would counsel you to do what YOU feel comfortable with. Did you get a "deal"? I think probably not. But if you were determined to keep the price to $2000, you are comfortable with your estimation of color and clarity, and you really wanted 70 points...I don't think you did badly. I was recently shopping for a stone of roughly similar characteristics and ended up with a .68 GIA D SI2 for about $2150, and I have to tell you, the price jump at .70 is brutal. Could you have gotten a good similarly sized stone with a cert for the same price you paid? Yes, but it probably would not have been a .71.

Though I must agree that the jeweler's estimation of color is not to be relied upon - s/he could see that you liked the stone and that it was the whitest.

Bottom line is certified stones are better (I will say that honestly I wouldn't have bought your stone, personally), but you have to decide if the benefit of a certified stone outweighs the burden (or joy, depending on your POV) of continued shopping. I don't think you got a "deal," but it's also awfully hard to get a "deal" on a diamond. And I don't think you got ripped off either.

 

[Enerchi]

Its only a deal if you feel you got what you wanted at a fair price you were willing to pay.

You seem happy with the price and happy with the diamond - so that's important But--- I think further advice on this forum is that there could have been other options out there that would have included certification and still have given you specs similar to your stone and your price paid.

Bottom line - if you are happy, that's what matters! Enjoy your stone!

 

[CharmyPoo]

Definetly get the stone appraised so you know what you actually have.

 

[mandasand]

I agree with Charmy to get an appraisal done. The thing that worries me is that you have no idea the quality of the stone. You can estimate it's an SI1 but what if it's lower? What about color? What is the quality of the cut? Maybe none of this matters if you think it's beautiful and sparkly. But, to ask if it's a good deal, there would be no way to know unless you had it appraised or if it was certified. To me, I would want the piece of mind that I know what I put my $2k towards.

A recent experience I had was a .62 VS1, GIA ideal cut, it ran about $2700. It was a little spready so it faced up more like a .70. The jeweler showed me all this. We looked at it through the loop, ideal scope, and his computer DNA program (I have no idea what it's called but it scans the diamond and pulls up all the specs). So, if we decide to go with this stone, we will feel confident about our purchase.

I also want to know from the experts on this forum, is this a normal practice for jewelers? To bring in a buyer with a lot of stones and put the customers in front of him/her to pic a diamond? Seems like the jeweler should review all the stones first, pick which ones they want to buy, and then offer ones to their customer based on the customer's criteria.

 

[slg47]

Definetly get the stone appraised so you know what you actually have.

I wouldn't spend $100-$200 on an appraisal unless you plan to keep the stone. I would definitely return it and get one that has a GIA or AGS report.

 

[Amys Bling]

The fact that no specs are confirmed means you hAve no idea what you bought and id it was a deal or not.

 

[Kalrik]

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.624-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104055878128 One in your price range that has perfect cut.

An idea of a perfect cut G http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.748-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104055878087 I know this a little bigger than what you got, but it shows you that you probably didn't get a well cut G SI1, you know?

The price in the store can rarely beat online.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Definetly get the stone appraised so you know what you actually have.

I wouldn't spend $100-$200 on an appraisal unless you plan to keep the stone. I would definitely return it and get one that has a GIA or AGS report.

Me too. I can basically promise you, OP, that you overpaid for lesser quality. Why? Because the diamond industry is largly geared to make the most profits, and selling ungraded diamonds is basically only for the purpose of getting more money for the diamond than you would get with a reliable lab report. ETA: There are exeptions to this, some antique cuts have no lab reports, and smaller stones (e.g., under .30ct) often do not have lab reports yet can be exceptional quality. But larger diamond without lab reports are really something to steel clear of, particularly in retail establishments.