Diamond quality among online vendors...

[ajoeschmo]

I recently purchased a .9ct E VS1 stone from JA which I like a lot, but I was curious about stone/cut quality amongst the various vendors... Has anyone compared or noticed a difference between purchasing the best-cut diamonds from JA, Whiteflash, GOG, BlueNile, etc? Is there a common trend as in lets say one vendor consistently has a better cut diamond, or one consistently has the best deals, or one has the best something but worse something else?

In other words, what separates all the on-line vendors in the quality of diamonds they carry?

 

[Lula]

I can only speak to my experience, which has been with James Allen and Wink from HPD.

1. James Allen offers great prices on their stones, and a large selection of settings available in a choice of metals (also reasonably priced). Their sales reps are well-trained and their staff is friendly. Their gemologist is well-respected on PS (Julianna) and will personally view stones for you. It takes a fair amount of time to search through their database (though they have a great search engine) to check each listing against your specific parameters. Not all listings have complete information (IS, GIA/AGS report, diamond photo). If you're considering one of their True Hearts diamonds, they can supply hearts info, but you have to request it.

Pros: Easy to use website; lots of settings to choose from; great return policy; upgrade policy. Sales reps work nights and weekends.

Cons: Requires a lot of searching to find what you want; often requires special requests for data on stones; doesn't carry branded cuts; service is good, but not overly personalized. JA has an upgrade policy but it's a little more restrictive than some of the other online vendors' policies.


2. Wink from High Performance Diamonds offers great one-on-one service; he's the one you talk to when you call or e-mail. Wink offers a full line of settings, including Vatche, as well as a custom design service. I am working with Wink on a custom design setting and have been pleasantly surprised at how reasonably priced his custom design service is. Wink has many, many years of experience in the gem business; he is honest and he knows his stuff. HPD carries a branded super-ideal cut, Crafted by Infinity diamonds. Branded stones are designed and cut under the guidance of one individual (or small group of individuals) who cut the stones in the brand in a consistent manner for a specific "look" and performance level. Do branded cuts sparkle "more" than a True Hearts or GIA Excellent or AGS0 non-branded cut -- no, I wouldn't say that. All well-cut stones are great sparklers. But the pattern of the sparkle may be different, and the consistency of the pattern of sparkle is the same across the stones from a particular brand. (Other branded cuts are WF ACA, Brian Gavin diamonds, GOG's signature cushions, Eightstar, Solasfera, etc.,but I haven't had experience with them, so I'll let others comment on those brands).

Pros: Personalized service, a wide variety of settings, custom design service, carries a branded cut (Infinity), provides IS, ASET, H&A images, photos, and AGS reports for each stone on the HPD website, easy to use website. Great upgrade policy. Infinity diamonds come with one full year of insurance.

Cons: Branded stones a bit more expensive than non-branded stones. Wink is one man; there's no sales force to field your call for an emergency engagement ring at midnight (unless he's got insomnia, I suppose!).

 

[Lula]

I should add -- I believe Wink carries other diamonds besides the Infinity brand, but I''ve only purchased Infinity stones from him.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/18/2009 6:48:19 PM
Author: sarap333
I can only speak to my experience, which has been with James Allen and Wink from HPD.

1. James Allen offers great prices on their stones, and a large selection of settings available in a choice of metals (also reasonably priced). Their sales reps are well-trained and their staff is friendly. Their gemologist is well-respected on PS (Julianna) and will personally view stones for you. It takes a fair amount of time to search through their database (though they have a great search engine) to check each listing against your specific parameters. Not all listings have complete information (IS, GIA/AGS report, diamond photo). If you''re considering one of their True Hearts diamonds, they can supply hearts info, but you have to request it.

Pros: Easy to use website; lots of settings to choose from; great return policy; upgrade policy. Sales reps work nights and weekends.

Cons: Requires a lot of searching to find what you want; often requires special requests for data on stones; doesn''t carry branded cuts; service is good, but not overly personalized. JA has an upgrade policy but it''s a little more restrictive than some of the other online vendors'' policies.


2. Wink from High Performance Diamonds offers great one-on-one service; he''s the one you talk to when you call or e-mail. Wink offers a full line of settings, including Vatche, as well as a custom design service. I am working with Wink on a custom design setting and have been pleasantly surprised at how reasonably priced his custom design service is. Wink has many, many years of experience in the gem business; he is honest and he knows his stuff. HPD carries a branded super-ideal cut, Crafted by Infinity diamonds. Branded stones are designed and cut under the guidance of one individual (or small group of individuals) who cut the stones in the brand in a consistent manner for a specific ''look'' and performance level. Do branded cuts sparkle ''more'' than a True Hearts or GIA Excellent or AGS0 non-branded cut -- no, I wouldn''t say that. All well-cut stones are great sparklers. But the pattern of the sparkle may be different, and the consistency of the pattern of sparkle is the same across the stones from a particular brand. (Other branded cuts are WF ACA, Brian Gavin diamonds, GOG''s signature cushions, Eightstar, Solasfera, etc.,but I haven''t had experience with them, so I''ll let others comment on those brands).

Pros: Personalized service, a wide variety of settings, custom design service, carries a branded cut (Infinity), provides IS, ASET, H&A images, photos, and AGS reports for each stone on the HPD website, easy to use website. Great upgrade policy. Infinity diamonds come with one full year of insurance.

Cons: Branded stones a bit more expensive than non-branded stones. Wink is one man; there''s no sales force to field your call for an emergency engagement ring at midnight (unless he''s got insomnia, I suppose!).

Well, no, not answer the phone, but I have been known to answer emails at some ridiculous hours...

As to Joe''s question. What separates the on line vendors is the quality of the cutting that they deliver. There are many that are pretty darn good, but not quite top quality cutting. This can be easily seen in some of the images that are posted, nice almost hearts, but not really quite to the quality that a heart in the traditional sense would be. There are only a few vendors that carry the best possible cutting, and like Loriel, they cost a little more...

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

It is a stone by stone call and you will find personality variations among the best cuts.
There is no one best cut but there is a range of best performers.

What is included, information provided and the policies that go with the diamond should also be considered.
The personality of the sellers is also a part of it some people are drawn towards different vendors personal and websites personalities.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 8/18/2009 10:12:35 PM
Author: strmrdr
It is a stone by stone call and you will find personality variations among the best cuts.
There is no one best cut but there is a range of best performers.

What is included, information provided and the policies that go with the diamond should also be considered.
The personality of the sellers is also a part of it some people are drawn towards different vendors personal and websites personalities.

This is true, but there are also those who say their cuts are better than they are, and this is reflected in the pricing as well. Who is going to help protect the consumers who do now know which is which?

Wink

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/18/2009 11:07:21 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 8/18/2009 10:12:35 PM
Author: strmrdr
It is a stone by stone call and you will find personality variations among the best cuts.
There is no one best cut but there is a range of best performers.

What is included, information provided and the policies that go with the diamond should also be considered.
The personality of the sellers is also a part of it some people are drawn towards different vendors personal and websites personalities.

This is true, but there are also those who say their cuts are better than they are, and this is reflected in the pricing as well. Who is going to help protect the consumers who do now know which is which?

Wink

Good question Wink.

 

[Regular Guy]

Sara, just wanted to thank you for the detailed description. Also, the info about Julianna was new to me, so thanks for that as well.

 

[strmrdr]

As always the pro-sumers and consumers of pricescope will do what they have done for hundreds of thousands of posts.
They will stand guard and protect their fellow consumers.

 

[Lula]

You''re welcome, Ira. Julianna looked at stone for me that I was considering buying, and actually recommended against me buying it due to the placement of a feather.

Ditto, Storm; and we do our best to recommend that newbies read the tutorials on evaluating hearts images for those stones advertised as H&A.

 

[Regular Guy]

Sorry, I''m not much more, again, than a busy body here...but the last I heard and remembered Julianna''s name, was from this thread. It does seem Jim''s expanded beyond hiring folks with the name beginning with "J," but...is this the same Julianna, having moved up from being part time, and why wouldn''t she be sgning here as a JA employee?

 

[Lula]

Date: 8/18/2009 11:57:06 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Sorry, I'm not much more, again, than a busy body here...but the last I heard and remembered Julianna's name, was from this thread. It does seem Jim's expanded beyond hiring folks with the name beginning with 'J,' but...is this the same Julianna, having moved up from being part time, and why wouldn't she be sgning here as a JA employee?

Hmm, don't know...but here's the post I was referring to link from this year where Jim from JA is confirming that she does indeed work there. According to this post, there are two Julianna's.

 

[ajoeschmo]

Thanks to all for the replies! I guess I didn''t quite formulate my question correctly or maybe I''m not finding the answer I''m looking for so let me rephrase a little. Let''s say you''re comparing a JA Truehearts, a Whiteflash ACA H&A, Bluenile Signature Round, and other top cuts from GOG, etc... How would each compare to one another and can you say one top cut is better than another top cut for fire/scintillation/brilliance, etc? Or are they all pretty much the same when you get to the top-cuts?

 

[Regular Guy]

Ajo, first, sorry for threadjacking.

Sara, btw, the thread you linked helped me, and if you'll see my post here, you may understand both my confusion, and that I don't read here that often anymore. I'll take your presentation, unless qualified further, as the most correct one.

Finally, Ajo...my impression is primarily that you have 3 classes of vendors, where statistics can be your friend.

WF and GoG are in a premier class (or both include differentiated goods in that class)
JA is not there
BN is below these.

For any given diamond, it is possible the BN is as good as the WF or GOG, but your level of confidence is reduced.

I will say with JA it has probably become more difficult to parse the differences recently, as I shared with the query here.

Finally, I will say your question is a good one, and one not addressed as robustly as should be done. Well...as could be done, anyway.

 

[Lula]

Well said, Ira.

I agree with your hierarchy; except, of course, I'd add Wink to the list of premier vendors.

Ajo, sorry we got off topic; I didn't read your original question correctly!

 

[Regular Guy]

Thanks, Sara. I''d agree with adding Wink, and others to the top end...but was motivated to only bring forward those vendors mentioned speciically by Ajo...

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 8/19/2009 12:24:49 AM
Author: ajoeschmo
Thanks to all for the replies! I guess I didn't quite formulate my question correctly or maybe I'm not finding the answer I'm looking for so let me rephrase a little. Let's say you're comparing a JA Truehearts, a Whiteflash ACA H&A, Bluenile Signature Round, and other top cuts from GOG, etc... How would each compare to one another and can you say one top cut is better than another top cut for fire/scintillation/brilliance, etc? Or are they all pretty much the same when you get to the top-cuts?

I have a few WF ACA's, a GOG H&A and some JA True Hearts stones.

In terms of performance, I can not see a difference aside from the slight variations that are due to crown/pavilion factors. All are beautiful stones.

But, if someone wants a super ideal H&A stone, then I think it's a hit or miss with the True Hearts line. That does not mean that you'll be able to see a difference, it just means that if you value the craftmanship that goes into the super ideals, then you're better off getting one.

For me, I place the most value on light performance so I don't necessarily need perfect H8A's. Other want both.

 

[Lula]

I owned a JA H&A (this was in the pre-True Hearts era, so I never saw the hearts images).

I owned a .53 Crafted by Infinity which I traded in for my current 1.0 Crafted by Infinity.

The JA stone was a great performer; it was an AGS0. Both Infinity stones are AGS0, and both are great performers.

But what I like about the Infinity brand is its consistency of cut, which leads to a consistency of performance and a definite "look" or personality. This gives me peace of mind.

I'm now a biased - very biased -- Crafted by Infinity owner. For me, cut quality is a mind clean issue, and I'm willing to pay more to get the assurance (and proof through images) of a super-ideal cut.

As elle_chris said, it's a craftsmanship issue. That's what I pay for and I think it's well worth the extra cost.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 8/19/2009 12:24:49 AM
Author: ajoeschmo
Thanks to all for the replies! I guess I didn''t quite formulate my question correctly or maybe I''m not finding the answer I''m looking for so let me rephrase a little. Let''s say you''re comparing a JA Truehearts, a Whiteflash ACA H&A, Bluenile Signature Round, and other top cuts from GOG, etc... How would each compare to one another and can you say one top cut is better than another top cut for fire/scintillation/brilliance, etc? Or are they all pretty much the same when you get to the top-cuts?

The answer to your question lies in how each vendor defines "top cut".

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/19/2009 12:06:14 AM
Author: sarap333

Date: 8/18/2009 11:57:06 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Sorry, I'm not much more, again, than a busy body here...but the last I heard and remembered Julianna's name, was from this thread. It does seem Jim's expanded beyond hiring folks with the name beginning with 'J,' but...is this the same Julianna, having moved up from being part time, and why wouldn't she be sgning here as a JA employee?

Hmm, don't know...but here's the post I was referring to link from this year where Jim from JA is confirming that she does indeed work there. According to this post, there are two Julianna's.

There is my pal Julianna who used to work for JA in customer service, she has now left and Julianna the gemologist who still works there so there were indeed 2 Juliannas.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 8/19/2009 8:38:02 AM
Author: sarap333

But what I like about the Infinity brand is its consistency of cut, which leads to a consistency of performance and a definite ''look'' or personality. This gives me peace of mind.

I''m now a biased - very biased -- Crafted by Infinity owner. For me, cut quality is a mind clean issue, and I''m willing to pay more to get the assurance (and proof through images) of a super-ideal cut.

As elle_chris said, it''s a craftsmanship issue. That''s what I pay for and I think it''s well worth the extra cost.

And this is where your own personal preference comes in as a consumer.

For Sara, having a super ideal is a mind clean issue and she''s willing to spend the extra money to get one of these stones.
For me, the mind clean issue is based soley on the Color and Clarity. I''m willing to spend extra on that and sacrifice the super ideal for just an ideal.

You have to decide what''s most important to you

 

[Rhino]

Date: 8/19/2009 9:47:38 AM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 8/19/2009 8:38:02 AM
Author: sarap333

But what I like about the Infinity brand is its consistency of cut, which leads to a consistency of performance and a definite ''look'' or personality. This gives me peace of mind.

I''m now a biased - very biased -- Crafted by Infinity owner. For me, cut quality is a mind clean issue, and I''m willing to pay more to get the assurance (and proof through images) of a super-ideal cut.

As elle_chris said, it''s a craftsmanship issue. That''s what I pay for and I think it''s well worth the extra cost.

And this is where your own personal preference comes in as a consumer.

For Sara, having a super ideal is a mind clean issue and she''s willing to spend the extra money to get one of these stones.
For me, the mind clean issue is based soley on the Color and Clarity. I''m willing to spend extra on that and sacrifice the super ideal for just an ideal.

You have to decide what''s most important to you

That is *key*.

 

[Lula]

Date: 8/19/2009 9:47:38 AM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 8/19/2009 8:38:02 AM

Author: sarap333


But what I like about the Infinity brand is its consistency of cut, which leads to a consistency of performance and a definite 'look' or personality. This gives me peace of mind.


I'm now a biased - very biased -- Crafted by Infinity owner. For me, cut quality is a mind clean issue, and I'm willing to pay more to get the assurance (and proof through images) of a super-ideal cut.


As elle_chris said, it's a craftsmanship issue. That's what I pay for and I think it's well worth the extra cost.

And this is where your own personal preference comes in as a consumer.


For Sara, having a super ideal is a mind clean issue and she's willing to spend the extra money to get one of these stones.

For me, the mind clean issue is based soley on the Color and Clarity. I'm willing to spend extra on that and sacrifice the super ideal for just an ideal.


You have to decide what's most important to you

Ditto. Great summary, elle!

To me, this is the best thing about PS -- newbies arrive here, confused and overwhelmed, and leave here (some of us never leave

) educated consumers who have made the best choices for them -- the mind clean thing -- and purchased lovely stones.

It's about education first, and making the best choice for you based on that education. We all have to balance cut-carat-cost-color-clarity and choose the stone that fits our budget and addressed the mind clean issues.

The cool thing is that this balance happens every day on this site -- just have a look at SMTR!

 

[Mattcv]

It is my opinion that JA TrueHearts gives you a chance at having a top performing diamond. However, there have been many TrueHearts that don''t come close to the WF ACA, GOG...ect type stones.

I think I was lucky in the diamond that I got from JA in terms of its quality, but I weeded out 20 or 30 other TrueHearts that didnt look so great.

As far as BN is concerend, the lack of extra information makes it hard to know where their diamonds fall, but I would put them at the bottom of the list as others have in their posts above.

This is MHO as a novice in this area.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 8/18/2009 5:56:35 PM
Author:ajoeschmo
I recently purchased a .9ct E VS1 stone from JA which I like a lot, but I was curious about stone/cut quality amongst the various vendors... Has anyone compared or noticed a difference between purchasing the best-cut diamonds from JA, Whiteflash, GOG, BlueNile, etc? Is there a common trend as in lets say one vendor consistently has a better cut diamond, or one consistently has the best deals, or one has the best something but worse something else?

In other words, what separates all the on-line vendors in the quality of diamonds they carry?

I don''t think that this question can be answered simply because most vendors represent a variety of quality levels and thus it isn''t possible to accurately state that vendor "x" consistently offers the best deal, or the best quality, or the best visual performance. There are several vendors who are rather well known on the forum who have developed a strong reputation in terms of their ability to consistently deliver diamonds with exceptional visual performance... And there are vendors who seem to be primarily focused on price and who I feel quite often misrepresent the quality of their offerings in terms of how I perceive specific designations of cut quality should be used - but then again, admittedly I can be a bit, uh, precise. It irritates the heck out of me when I see diamonds advertised as "Hearts & Arrows" when in my opinion the only thing "H&A" about them is that they are "Happy" / "Accidents" being represented as "Hearts & Arrows" when they don''t meet the standards for optical symmetry that I have come to expect from a true hearts and arrows quality diamond. As one of the original sellers of Hearts & Arrows diamonds here in the U.S., this happens to be a pet peeve of mine...

To be clear, I''m not referring to any specific brand, nor vendor, but rather addressing what I feel is the pivot point that must be addressed for consumers to accurately address the concern which you have expressed which is essentially "which vendor offers the best quality at the best price?" and to answer that question accurately consumers need to look past the statements, the clever brand names, the hype, the labels, etc. and look to the details of each diamond being offered... Take a look at the ASET images, the Ideal Scope images, the Hearts & Arrows images, the proportions of the diamond - and not just to determine whether they fall within the scope of "ideal cut" but also to determine whether the pavilion angle is a good offset for the crown angle.

I realize that all of this might seem a bit daunting to the average diamond consumer, but there are exceptional tutorials to be found here on PS and on the web sites of the vendors who contribute to the forum regularly. There are many people who are not in the trade who have spent countless hours learning about diamonds who also contribute to the forum regularly and who can make comments regarding specific diamonds which we are prohibited from commenting on as vendors... Rely on these people to help you avoid some of the pitfalls that can be made rather easily by people new to diamond buying...

I think that every vendor here on PS has the potential to provide consumers with diamonds of exceptional cut quality - some with excellent patterns of Hearts & Arrows, some without, no matter as long as whatever statement made with regards to that internal characteristic is accurate IMO - I do not believe that any one vendor has the "magic formula" or "cure all" for the diamond shopping dilemma, but that is part of the adventure is it not?

 

[Julianna]

Date: 8/19/2009 9:46:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/19/2009 12:06:14 AM
Author: sarap333

Date: 8/18/2009 11:57:06 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Sorry, I''m not much more, again, than a busy body here...but the last I heard and remembered Julianna''s name, was from this thread. It does seem Jim''s expanded beyond hiring folks with the name beginning with ''J,'' but...is this the same Julianna, having moved up from being part time, and why wouldn''t she be sgning here as a JA employee?

Hmm, don''t know...but here''s the post I was referring to link from this year where Jim from JA is confirming that she does indeed work there. According to this post, there are two Julianna''s.

There is my pal Julianna who used to work for JA in customer service, she has now left and Julianna the gemologist who still works there so there were indeed 2 Juliannas.

Oooo! A thread that mentions me! Hi Lor! Hi Ira! Sorry for the threadjack... I am the part-time Julianna *cue suspenseful music*. And, (Lor, you may want to sit down for this

), I do actually work at JA again on a very part-time basis (and just recently, at that!) on the sales force. If you''re talking to a Julianna with a stack o'' diamond credentials to the ceiling... that ain''t me.

If you''re talking to an overly-friendly Julianna in Maryland...that''s me.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/19/2009 6:46:46 PM
Author: Julianna

Date: 8/19/2009 9:46:43 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 8/19/2009 12:06:14 AM
Author: sarap333

Date: 8/18/2009 11:57:06 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Sorry, I''m not much more, again, than a busy body here...but the last I heard and remembered Julianna''s name, was from this thread. It does seem Jim''s expanded beyond hiring folks with the name beginning with ''J,'' but...is this the same Julianna, having moved up from being part time, and why wouldn''t she be sgning here as a JA employee?

Hmm, don''t know...but here''s the post I was referring to link from this year where Jim from JA is confirming that she does indeed work there. According to this post, there are two Julianna''s.

There is my pal Julianna who used to work for JA in customer service, she has now left and Julianna the gemologist who still works there so there were indeed 2 Juliannas.

Oooo! A thread that mentions me! Hi Lor! Hi Ira! Sorry for the threadjack... I am the part-time Julianna *cue suspenseful music*. And, (Lor, you may want to sit down for this

), I do actually work at JA again on a very part-time basis (and just recently, at that!) on the sales force. If you''re talking to a Julianna with a stack o'' diamond credentials to the ceiling... that ain''t me.

If you''re talking to an overly-friendly Julianna in Maryland...that''s me.

YAY!!!!!!!