Diamond newbie searching for a diamond/engagement ring

[Gibson]

Hi Pricesopers!

First of of all let me say what an amazing resource this site is! Kudos!

I've been searching for a diamond engagement ring for my wife (yep, already married) and I need some help! I was trying to get it for her for our 5 year Anniversary, which is today, and before her 30th Birthday, which is next week but that's not going to happen, which isn't a bad thing because the more I wait, (read and research) the more I find out about getting better quality!

I was trying to do it all by myself without posting a thread but I'm affraid that plan didn't work out for me, I need some help! (Sorry!)

So I stumbled across Blue Nile and was 100% certain about getting it through them but I just wanted to check and ask for some suggestions and comments as I have been reading that a lot of people here don't really like Blue Nile very much.

She wants a .7 Carat (preferable, but .67 should be ok too), Round, as white and shiny as possible! Obviously as best symmetry and polish possible and as little fluorescence as possible!

The problem is, I'm on a (student) budget! $2,000 - $3,000 for the diamond itself and around 1200 - 1300 for the Halo setting, I'm in Australia so I'll probably have to pay an extra 10 - 15% on top of that as well, unless I get the loose diamond and setting separate to avoid the taxes and get it set here. So basically I'm hoping to get something (diamond and setting) for $4,000! I want to get spend more money and get her something way better, she deserves it, but I can't afford it at the moment, so this will have to do for now. I know Blue Nile do an upgrade thingy where they credit you for the original price you paid so you can use it towards another diamond. That's definitely something I'd like to do in a few years.

I've seen a few from Blue Nile that would fit into my budget and rate below 2 on the HCA, so I'm hoping I'm not asking for something impossible here! Even searching here on pricescope produced a couple of results from whiteflash and eternal-something.

I'm aware that cut is king and not to skimp on, so I can't change that! As for the Clarity, we're fine with an eye clean vs1/si1 or something, but it has to be eye clean as I have good eyes - last night we went to a jewellery story to have a look at some rings and I was looking at a vs2, 0.7 Carat, F - G Colour and I saw an inclusion in it with my naked eye that my wife and the jeweller couldn't see until they looked at it through a loupe.

I have a question about the Colour of diamonds: do different rating systems have different colours as well? Because we want it as white as possible for the naked eye and I was thinking that I'd have to get at least an F, but then I've seen lot's of people getting G and H and even I. Does it depend on the diamond itself and the system it's rated under or is an H diamond an H diamond no matter what? Bear in mind we will be going for an Ideal cut.

I would love to get recommendations, suggestions, feedback, comments, anything!

I know there are some people on these boards that actively hunt out good priced stones, I can only hope they find this thread!

Excuse the verbosity of my post!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi! We'll be happy to help you find a stone! Considering you are in Australia and can't easily order stones to look at and return, I suggest not even considering SI1 because you have very good eyesight and won't be happy with a stone that is not 100% eyeclean. I think the question is whether VS2 is safe enough or whether to go with VS1. And I think you need to go with a vendor that supplies photos of the stones as well. I'll take a look and be back.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, well, you need to stay under .70 and probably G VS2 in order to stay under $3000. I'll show you some examples.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2792442.htm ($2708 pricescope/wire price)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8416/

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1491261.asp

 

[Gibson]

Thanks diamond seeker! You certainly live up to your nick!

Hi! We'll be happy to help you find a stone! Considering you are in Australia and can't easily order stones to look at and return, I suggest not even considering SI1 because you have very good eyesight and won't be happy with a stone that is not 100% eyeclean. I think the question is whether VS2 is safe enough or whether to go with VS1. And I think you need to go with a vendor that supplies photos of the stones as well. I'll take a look and be back.

Oh yep, I'll definitely buy from a vendor that supplies pictures, I just assumed Blue Nile did this when you asked?

I just went to a jeweller on my lunch break and saw a bunch of rings in the window with their certificates. of all the GIA ones (10 - 15 or so) all of them were SI2, all had excellent/very good cut and most were G or H colour. To me they looked really nice. I'll go back after work and get a closer look at them but as long as the inclusions are internal and not close-ish to the surface like the one I spotted last night, SI1 or SI2 might be OK!

Okay, well, you need to stay under .70 and probably G VS2 in order to stay under $3000. I'll show you some examples.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2792442.htm ($2708 pricescope/wire price)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8416/

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1491261.asp

Awesome, thanks for that.

Hopefully an H colour SI2 or SI1 will be OK, then, hopefully, I'll be able to get something in the high .6's or even a .7!

What's your opinion on the Colours of the stones? Does GIA rate there's differently?

And because it's a Halo setting, should I take special notice not to have the little surrounding stones be a different (better) colour than the centre stone?

THanks so much!

 

[Christina...]

GIA and AGS are the most accurate labs in the world. Stick with them, and you will be fine as far as the accuracy of the clarity and color. As far as clarity, I'd be more comfortable purchasing an SI1 if I used a vendor that supplied photos. I'm also not a stickler for clarity, so long as the inclusions are not under the table, are prongable, white and are not a durability issue, then I'm fine with an SI quality. Since your in Australia though and it won't be easy to ship stones back and forth, I would stay away from SI2's,

 

[Woody284]

Hi, I was at helzberg and saw this round brilliant diamond .70ct F color si2 clarity with both polish and symmetry very good. There is a small inclusion that I saw under 10x..the price is $3,500. The thing is that it's certified under IGI. Is this a good deal?? Please help

 

[Gibson]

Thanks for that info Christina!

I'll start with an si1 then and ask them all those questions that you said to make sure.

So that's pretty much Cut, Clarity and Carat sorted!

That leaves Colour, what do you guys think I would be able to get away with? She wants it as white possible, she doesn't like the warm stones we've been seeing around. Is there that much of a difference between F and G, and G and H?

Because this diamond on Blue Nile looks pretty damn good to me, assuming the clarity is eye clean:

http://au.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD02586081

It scored 0.8 on HCA too, that's pretty darn good, right? And it's under my budget too! What say you guys? Here are the specs:

Price: AU$ 2,632
Bank wire price: AU$ 2,593
Price per carat: AU$ 3,760
Carat weight: 0.70
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Depth %: 61.3%
Table %: 57%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.72 x 5.69 x 3.49 mm

That said, to go up to an F Colour is $200 more, would it be worth it?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks for that info Christina!

I'll start with an si1 then and ask them all those questions that you said to make sure.

So that's pretty much Cut, Clarity and Carat sorted!

That leaves Colour, what do you guys think I would be able to get away with? She wants it as white possible, she doesn't like the warm stones we've been seeing around. Is there that much of a difference between F and G, and G and H?

Because this diamond on Blue Nile looks pretty damn good to me, assuming the clarity is eye clean:

http://au.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD02586081

It scored 0.8 on HCA too, that's pretty darn good, right? And it's under my budget too! What say you guys? Here are the specs:

Price: AU$ 2,632
Bank wire price: AU$ 2,593
Price per carat: AU$ 3,760
Carat weight: 0.70
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Depth %: 61.3%
Table %: 57%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.72 x 5.69 x 3.49 mm

That said, to go up to an F Colour is $200 more, would it be worth it?

I think it is dangerous to go below SI1 when there aren't magnified images (and for me, I am not sure I would do SI1 unless I could see and easily return a stone).

As far as the stone above is concerned, I try to stick with Excellent on symmetry and cut. I could manage with very good on polish if necessary. But I don't think Blue Nile provides images, so that makes it very difficult. I'd probably only take the chance on VS and triple excellent from BN. I think $200 is well worth spending to go up in color, but I would want the best cut first of all and color second.

 

[Gibson]

I think it is dangerous to go below SI1 when there aren't magnified images (and for me, I am not sure I would do SI1 unless I could see and easily return a stone).

As far as the stone above is concerned, I try to stick with Excellent on symmetry and cut. I could manage with very good on polish if necessary. But I don't think Blue Nile provides images, so that makes it very difficult. I'd probably only take the chance on VS and triple excellent from BN. I think $200 is well worth spending to go up in color, but I would want the best cut first of all and color second.

When you say Excellent for Cut, do you mean Blue Nile's signature Ideal cut? I read that it's their inhouse cut and that because of this and it's not an industry standard that it may or may not be worth it. Plus I mean in general, still that's inhouse or graded inhouse kinda sets off a fewl red flags with me. Its a $900 difference to go from Ideal to Signature Ideal cut, I assumed that the "Ideal" cut on blue nile was equivalent to other places top cut (excellent etc), as the prices seems comparable with similar diamonds.

Plus, is the difference between Very good and Excellent symmertry and polish worth the $150 difference? I have no idea what the actual effects are!

As for the Clarity, Blue Nile said that they can not send photo's but said this:

I can tell you that a diamond under 2 carats that has a VS2 clarity grade or higher will only have microscopic inclusions below what the human eye could ever detect without 10x magnification. We can certainly have any SI1 clarity stones inspected for you to determine whether they are eye-clean, but if you are looking for complete assurance that the diamond does not have any visible inclusions no matter how closely you scrutinize the stone I would recommend a VS2 or higher.

Thanks so much!

 

[E B]

What about this?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1500364.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...and-shank-diamond-engagement-ring-17305w.html

Total (with PS discount): $4085

 

[LetItShine]

Hi Gibson,

I bought a Bluenile Signature Ideal 5 weeks ago and couldn't be more thrilled. Signature Ideal isn't cut in house. They are diamonds that Bluenile has chosen to label "signature ideal" based on their set of specific standards. They are also diamonds that they own and aren't available elsewhere. Mine was laser inscribed "Bluenile". They own it in house so I could have had a expert view it for me but declined. My diamond was graded GIA XXX and was independently graded by GCAL. Bluenile doesnt supply pictures or idealscope, but the GCAL certificate and 30 return policy helped put me at ease. I inspected my diamond CAREFULLY for 30 days, took it to 4 different jewelers, plugged the numbers in to various tables, and couldn't find anything to not love about the diamond. I too have "eagle eyes" and couldn't see the tiny cloud's no matter how hard I tried. I researchd and feel that I got a very good price for my diamond. I called Bluenile customer service several times and found them to be awesome.

Anyway, just my 2 cents and experience with Bluenile Signature Ideal. Best of luck with your diamond search.

 

[Gibson]

What about this?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1500364.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...and-shank-diamond-engagement-ring-17305w.html

Total (with PS discount): $4085

Thanks for that! That definitely looks like a great cut diamond! However, I'm concerned about the colour being H, I don't like I colour diamonds as they appear to warm to me, hence why I wanted to go at least a G. But they say that that H&A cut makes it appear whiter?

And that one scores slightly higher on HCA than the blunile one, what is more important for light return/fire? The HCA score or the Cut?

I'm confused!

Hi Gibson,

I bought a Bluenile Signature Ideal 5 weeks ago and couldn't be more thrilled. Signature Ideal isn't cut in house. They are diamonds that Bluenile has chosen to label "signature ideal" based on their set of specific standards. They are also diamonds that they own and aren't available elsewhere. Mine was laser inscribed "Bluenile". They own it in house so I could have had a expert view it for me but declined. My diamond was graded GIA XXX and was independently graded by GCAL. Bluenile doesnt supply pictures or idealscope, but the GCAL certificate and 30 return policy helped put me at ease. I inspected my diamond CAREFULLY for 30 days, took it to 4 different jewelers, plugged the numbers in to various tables, and couldn't find anything to not love about the diamond. I too have "eagle eyes" and couldn't see the tiny cloud's no matter how hard I tried. I researchd and feel that I got a very good price for my diamond. I called Bluenile customer service several times and found them to be awesome.

Anyway, just my 2 cents and experience with Bluenile Signature Ideal. Best of luck with your diamond search.

Hmmm... OK. The signature ideal cut are significantly more expensive than the Ideal, and from what I can see the H&A cut from james Allen.

what to do what to do

 

[Gibson]

Do you guys know of anywhere I can see real world comparison pictures of different colour/clarity diamonds/rings next to each other? Maybe like all on one finger or something?

 

[E B]

Do you guys know of anywhere I can see real world comparison pictures of different colour/clarity diamonds/rings next to each other? Maybe like all on one finger or something?

This might help: http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Color/NearColorless/

On second thought, it might not! That comparison shows the diamonds in a strict grading environment. The differences would not be nearly as obvious when the diamond is in a ring, as he points out in the tutorial.

 

[aron42486]

Don't forget the Knowledge section of PS
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-color
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-clarity

I am new to all this too, and from what I've seen there isn't much noticeable difference between D through H unless you have them all lined up. Most of those comparison images show the diamonds upside-down which reveals the color better. Remember that your perception of colorless depends on the colors surrounding it. If you have a halo mount with I-J color stones then an H will look remarkably white by comparison.

I think H color diamonds are still very white and let you put a few more dollars in one of the other characteristics.

Edit: Also remember that the HCA is just a guideline. Anything under 2 is a diamond worth looking at but a .7 is not necessarily better than a .8. Most of the great diamonds I have seen hover very close in the 1.0 area, but I've seen a .7 that looked worse than a 1.6. The cut grade also takes polish and symmetry into account which HCA does not.

 

[Gibson]

Thanks for the link EB and Aron, Helped quite a bit!

I think I'll aim for a G colour and won't go below H.

Back onto cuts:

Is the difference between a Blue Nile Signature Ideal really worth the difference? Likewise between James Allen True Hearts and James allen Ideal? I know cut is King but how noticeable is the difference between the two top tiers of cut? Just like Clarity, I don't want to spend money on something that I won't be able to notice to the naked eye, under a loupe magnification doesn't concern me at all.

That said, I'm in this position:

I could get a James Allen True Hearts, Colour H, Clarity SI1/SI2, or something similar from Blue Nile Signature Ideal cut. Or, I could get one down from the James Allen True Hearts Ideal, which is just Ideal and get something a bit higher on the colour/clarity scale for piece of mind (because I'm in Australia and can't see the diamond first). So, yeah basically is there really a massive noteable difference bewteen Signature Ideal/True Hearts and Ideal?

Missus is getting impatient with me, but I want to do the proper research!

Thanks guys!

 

[Gypsy]

Hi, I was at helzberg and saw this round brilliant diamond .70ct F color si2 clarity with both polish and symmetry very good. There is a small inclusion that I saw under 10x..the price is $3,500. The thing is that it's certified under IGI. Is this a good deal?? Please help

Please start your own thread. But in a nutshell. No, we an find you something better.

 

[aron42486]

Is the difference between a Blue Nile Signature Ideal really worth the difference? Likewise between James Allen True Hearts and James allen Ideal? I know cut is King but how noticeable is the difference between the two top tiers of cut? Just like Clarity, I don't want to spend money on something that I won't be able to notice to the naked eye, under a loupe magnification doesn't concern me at all.

I'm no expert but I have done a fair bit of comparing. I'd say the answer to that question is tough to say. I bought a Blue Nile Signature Ideal (AGS 000 version) and compared it to some GIA Excellent stones. There was virtually no difference between the stones as far as sparkle and fire. I do not have an idealscope so all my judging was with the eyes. I haven't seen a Blue Nile regular Ideal before but I would guess that there would be little difference.

To be honest, if you are the type of person that likes having that "Signature" title on there then just go for it. If you are trying hard to make your budget then going to an Ideal stone isn't a bad thing.

 

[Gibson]

Is the difference between a Blue Nile Signature Ideal really worth the difference? Likewise between James Allen True Hearts and James allen Ideal? I know cut is King but how noticeable is the difference between the two top tiers of cut? Just like Clarity, I don't want to spend money on something that I won't be able to notice to the naked eye, under a loupe magnification doesn't concern me at all.

I'm no expert but I have done a fair bit of comparing. I'd say the answer to that question is tough to say. I bought a Blue Nile Signature Ideal (AGS 000 version) and compared it to some GIA Excellent stones. There was virtually no difference between the stones as far as sparkle and fire. I do not have an idealscope so all my judging was with the eyes. I haven't seen a Blue Nile regular Ideal before but I would guess that there would be little difference.

To be honest, if you are the type of person that likes having that "Signature" title on there then just go for it. If you are trying hard to make your budget then going to an Ideal stone isn't a bad thing.

Thanks for that info aron! I've looked at some videos as well and from what I can see the difference between True Hearts/Signature Ideal and the next Cut grade down, Ideal, Isn't really noticeable to the naked eye, I guess it's kind of like the difference between F and G colour?

I'm definitely not that type of person. My gut is telling my to go with Ideal (GIA Excellent) over true hearts/signature ideal. That will allow me to go one up on clarity to VS2 (because I can't see the actual ring and returning it isn't feasible).

So I'm pretty much leaning towards:

.70 Carat
G Colour
Ideal Cut (instead of True Hearts/Signature Ideal etc)
VS2 Clarity
Round Shape.

Anyone else have any input?

 

[Gypsy]

I think that's a good call. And the same one I would make. I would prefer a GIA Ex/Ex with ideal light return (confirmed with an idealscope image) over a superideal of lower color and clarity-- especially shopping internationally.

Although, looking at comps. A G VS2 Ex/Ex is going to cost you 3400.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1472144.asp Get an idealscope. This one might work out.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1480392.asp This one costs more, but it's going to be a safer bet than the other.

 

[Gypsy]

If this one's idealscope bears out, and it is eyeclean (good chance of it) AND teh florescence doesn't have any negative effect, I think it would be my choice. It's visually bigger than the rest you are looking at and has a lot of potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1488238.asp I think it's worth asking for the gemologist to check it out, and if it's clean, getting an Idealscope image.

 

[Gibson]

I think that's a good call. And the same one I would make. I would prefer a GIA Ex/Ex with ideal light return (confirmed with an idealscope image) over a superideal of lower color and clarity-- especially shopping internationally.

Although, looking at comps. A G VS2 Ex/Ex is going to cost you 3400.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1472144.asp Get an idealscope. This one might work out.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1480392.asp This one costs more, but it's going to be a safer bet than the other.

Thanks Gypsy. I wasn't really aware that a lower quality cut grade could have better light return than a better cut grade, isn't the whole purpose of a good cut to makes it shine more (better light return?)

I guess I could stretch the budget a couple hundred bucks, pricescope price is a bit cheaper, how do I get that price? Is it for the forum members?

Thanks for that extra info, other than Idealscope and HCA, what else should I be checking when comparing diamonds?

If this one's idealscope bears out, and it is eyeclean (good chance of it) AND teh florescence doesn't have any negative effect, I think it would be my choice. It's visually bigger than the rest you are looking at and has a lot of potential: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1488238.asp I think it's worth asking for the gemologist to check it out, and if it's clean, getting an Idealscope image.

Hmmm... ok, thanks again.

I assume there are many tutorials explaining how to interpret an idealscope image floating around? The question is though, are there any that I could easily make sense of? (being a super newbie!)

Thanks so much!